2013 Formula 1 Gulf Air Bahrain Grand Prix

[Ardius]

Neither Sauber or Force India do very well at strategy.

Force India seem to make better calls more frequently than Sauber.
Both of them tend to split their strategies between their drivers, but Force India tend to call their stops better.

Sauber seem obsessed with trying to run longer stints than everyone else at every single race even when its very clearly not giving any benefit whatsoever.

When either team has their cars running among the top guys within a shout of a podium, Force India tend to go slightly conservative but secure a decent result..wheras Sauber go totally out the window and cause their drivers to finish 10th or worse. Last year it felt like blind luck that Sauber found a strategy that worked!

Put it this way, I think Force India are capable of making a decent result even with a poor car. Whereas Sauber are capable of making a great car but turning it into a poor result.


Oh and to add to that, Sauber's pit stop times are totally abysmal.

 

[lbsf1]

Force India seem to make better calls more frequently than Sauber.
Both of them tend to split their strategies between their drivers, but Force India tend to call their stops better.

Sauber seem obsessed with trying to run longer stints than everyone else at every single race even when its very clearly not giving any benefit whatsoever.

When either team has their cars running among the top guys within a shout of a podium, Force India tend to go slightly conservative but secure a decent result..wheras Sauber go totally out the window and cause their drivers to finish 10th or worse. Last year it felt like blind luck that Sauber found a strategy that worked!

Put it this way, I think Force India are capable of making a decent result even with a poor car. Whereas Sauber are capable of making a great car but turning it into a poor result.


Oh and to add to that, Sauber's pit stop times are totally abysmal.

You have to remember that these small teams don't have the tactical resources of the big guys. The large teams have huge computers (McLaren has one of the largest non military computers in the world) that are running strategy simulations, the tactics arn't just made by people they are often decided by computers that are running through every possible option and showing which ones would come out as fastest. Hence why before a grand prix Gary Anderson sometimes say "The simulations show 3 stops being only a couple of seconds slower over a race then 2 stops" or something like that.

The large teams have more resources for this then the small teams, hence the small teams make the wrong decision more often then the large teams.

 

[Ardius]

It doesn't excuse consistently poor strategy and pit work over a 3 year (now going on 4 year!) period though. And we're not just talking poor strategies compared to the top teams here..we're talking poor strategies compared to their direct competition and even sometimes the backmarkers!

Not to mention, Sauber have their special Intel supercomputer, which might be getting on a bit now, but they're hardly lacking in that department! The facilities at Himwil are meant to be good enough for a front-running team thanks to BMW!

 

[xStretch-]

Kimi or Seb will take it imo

I think their cars will suit the track

 

[wajdi1977]

From Bahrain

 

[Samus]

Kimi or Seb will take it imo

I think their cars will suit the track

Ferrari have won it four times, Alonso three times (twice with Renault). Given their/his race pace in the last race they are huge favourites for me.

 

[spyrrari]

From Bahrain

I'll bet the third person on that table isn't Vettel...

Nice curtains btw!




Spy.

 

[Centura]

You have to remember that these small teams don't have the tactical resources of the big guys. The large teams have huge computers (McLaren has one of the largest non military computers in the world) that are running strategy simulations, the tactics arn't just made by people they are often decided by computers that are running through every possible option and showing which ones would come out as fastest. Hence why before a grand prix Gary Anderson sometimes say "The simulations show 3 stops being only a couple of seconds slower over a race then 2 stops" or something like that.

The large teams have more resources for this then the small teams, hence the small teams make the wrong decision more often then the large teams.

The amount of computer resources a team can use is limited by the regulations to 40 teraFLOPS, but it's possible that rule only applied to CFD.

 

[Seismica]

The amount of computer resources a team can use is limited by the regulations to 40 teraFLOPS, but it's possible that rule only applied to CFD.

As far as I know, Virgin Racing (Before they became Marussia) didn't have enough computing power to even reach that 40 teraFLOP limit, even with their CFD only approach to aerodynamic development.

The Resource Restriction Agreement only really affects the big teams, and that's simply because they didn't want the equivalent of an arms race which would just burn through money and make the sport unprofitable for all involved. The smaller teams would love to have the same level of computing power as Mclaren/Red Bull/Ferrari.

 

[xStretch-]

Ferrari have won it four times, Alonso three times (twice with Renault). Given their/his race pace in the last race they are huge favourites for me.

A Ferrari hasn't won here since 2010 and my response to that is a lot has changed since then. Can't really take to much note of previous winners

 

[Samus]

No but I'm more going on Alonso and Ferrari's current pace, which is very good. The fact they won it in the past just shows that generally the Ferrari is also strong at this track.

Oh and we've only had one race since 2010 but I'm sure you know that.

 

[lbsf1]

As far as I know, Virgin Racing (Before they became Marussia) didn't have enough computing power to even reach that 40 teraFLOP limit, even with their CFD only approach to aerodynamic development.

The Resource Restriction Agreement only really affects the big teams, and that's simply because they didn't want the equivalent of an arms race which would just burn through money and make the sport unprofitable for all involved. The smaller teams would love to have the same level of computing power as Mclaren/Red Bull/Ferrari.

The Resource Restriction Agreement does next to nothing in relation to development time and power, even to the big teams. Mclaren have their wind tunnel running 24 hours a day for tests (they just have a prescribed test run that is quite short but tests all types of corners) and their computers take over a whole tennis court sized area under the factory. Compare this to Force India (who I have also spent a week working at) who have no where near this (factory has not really but updated much since Jordan era.).

When you see the difference between the teams resources then it is a miracle that force india are even close to Mclaren on track.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Based on form and cars, Alonso - Vettel - Raikkonen are the obvious favorite for me. I would also give a slight advantage to Fernando but Vettel or Raikkonen can win it as well. Raikkonen performance with his front wing damaged was pretty impressing still.

 

[Peasantslayer]

When you see the difference between the teams resources then it is a miracle that force india are even close to Mclaren on track.

It just shows how restricted teams are that they have to spend about 100 million pounds more on developing their car per season for an extra bit of speed so small that it is unnoticeable to the human eye.

Based on form and cars, Alonso - Vettel - Raikkonen are the obvious favorite for me. I would also give a slight advantage to Fernando but Vettel or Raikkonen can win it as well. Raikkonen performance with his front wing damaged was pretty impressing still.

We haven't seen how the 2013 cars perform on a low grip track in high temperatures, I'm expecting big surprises.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

We haven't seen how the 2013 cars perform on a low grip track in high temperatures, I'm expecting big surprises.

So who you're seeing in front ? You have to take into account that Pirelli changed their tyre choice for the GP for a more conservative one, so I'm expecting less pit stop than what we've seen so far. I'm not exactly sure how this year Pirelli's gonna perform on high temperature tho.

 

[Lizard]

From Bahrain

Relating to that photo.

http://t.sport.uk.msn.com/f1/alonso-slams-twitter-suspicion

BTW that is in Dubai.

 

[Peasantslayer]

So who you're seeing in front ? You have to take into account that Pirelli changed their tyre choice for the GP for a more conservative one, so I'm expecting less pit stop than what we've seen so far. I'm not exactly sure how this year Pirelli's gonna perform on high temperature tho.

I've seen rumours over the past couple of months that the W04 can lap faster than normal when the temperature rises a bit. The Mercedes has also looked good on the harder compounds in the previous races. All I know for certain is that if it stays dry the winner will be in a Red Bull, Mercedes, Lotus or Ferrari. I think the winner will do one stint on the hards and two on the mediums after listening to Massa in the driver's press conference, he said something like "The two compounds degrade similarly but the medium is the faster tyre." So qualify on the mediums, shortish stint on the hards and then back to the fast mediums for the longest stint of all as the fuel loads go down.

 

[BHRxRacer]

I'm concerned for Rosberg. After spending 2 hours in the pitlane today between the Mercedes and Lotus garages, Brawn came to check on Nico's car(but never Lewis'). Nico had looked worried/upset earlier about something and didn't say a word to us, just shook hands and took photos hardly smiling. I know I sound like a paranoid fanboy but I'm just reporting what I saw.

Also it's been raining here on and off for a week. Showered a bit heavily 4 hours ago the track was rather damp for a little while. Part of me hopes it rains on Sunday to watch a fun race but the other part wants to see a clean weekend for once.

From Bahrain

Which restaurant is that? Doesn't look familiar.

 

[Lizard]

Which restaurant is that? Doesn't look familiar.

It's in Dubai that's why.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I've seen rumours over the past couple of months that the W04 can lap faster than normal when the temperature rises a bit. The Mercedes has also looked good on the harder compounds in the previous races. All I know for certain is that if it stays dry the winner will be in a Red Bull, Mercedes, Lotus or Ferrari. I think the winner will do one stint on the hards and two on the mediums after listening to Massa in the driver's press conference, he said something like "The two compounds degrade similarly but the medium is the faster tyre." So qualify on the mediums, shortish stint on the hards and then back to the fast mediums for the longest stint of all as the fuel loads go down.

I really hope Lewis can get it but I doubt it somehow. He's still my favourite driver.

 

[05XR8]

Here's hoping a Mercedes engine makes it to the top step this race

 

[Seismica]

The Resource Restriction Agreement does next to nothing in relation to development time and power, even to the big teams. Mclaren have their wind tunnel running 24 hours a day for tests (they just have a prescribed test run that is quite short but tests all types of corners) and their computers take over a whole tennis court sized area under the factory. Compare this to Force India (who I have also spent a week working at) who have no where near this (factory has not really but updated much since Jordan era.).

When you see the difference between the teams resources then it is a miracle that force india are even close to Mclaren on track.

Indeed. The RRA was after all just a gentleman's agreement conjured up by FOTA. The bigger teams had more influence (And leverage in the case of engine suppliers like Ferrari), so the RRA was basically agreed upon by the big teams who had the most resources, and the most to lose from any restrictions.

This is mostly speculation on my part, but I think the big teams aren't going to restrict their own advantage, so they set the RRA terms to be slightly above the resources they themselves had. Obviously there had to be some compromises between the different teams, and to appease the FIA who were considering imposing budget limits, but on the whole the big teams were relatively unaffected, certainly in terms of development time and power like you say. The only resource it did really restrict was staff, but that can be fixed with outsourcing.

 

[BHRxRacer]

It's in Dubai that's why.

He said "from Bahrain"

 

[Lizard]

He said "from Bahrain"

The news article says in Dubai.
http://t.sport.uk.msn.com/f1/alonso-slams-twitter-suspicion
He said that because he assumed it was I think.

 

[BHRxRacer]

The news article says in Dubai.
http://t.sport.uk.msn.com/f1/alonso-slams-twitter-suspicion
He said that because he assumed it was I think.

My bad, didn't catch your earlier post.

 

[Wardez]

We haven't seen how the 2013 cars perform on a low grip track in high temperatures, I'm expecting big surprises.

That's why I'm looking forward to this weekend so much.

Gonna be interesting to see who has the better package for this track profile.

Have a feeling it'll be Mercedes and RBR.

 

[m8h3r]

What time is this race for England (BST)?

 

[Matty]

what time is this race for england (bst)?

12 pm.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

McLaren aren't running the Vodafone name and logo this weekend; instead, they've got backing from Kuwaiti telco Zain, one of Vodafone's regional partners:

Vodafone's opposition to the race in Bahrain has been well-documented. They were said to be fuming when they couldn't get their logos removed from the cars last year, and the incident is said to be one of the key factors in their decision not to renew their sponsorship deal at the end of the season.

 

[Peasantslayer]

FP1 finished, both Ferrari's right up there with Rosberg. Hamilton was a tenth up on Massa's time at the first or second sector but pitted, the Force Indias looked fast but Lotus and Red Bull surely have more to give.

Results