2013 Petronas Malaysian Grand Prix

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Are some of you guys retarded? Webber was instructed to turn the engine down, so was Vettel. The team KNEW after last pit stop if they let both drivers racing freely Webber would have finished 1st and Vettel 2nd. But team decided to keep that result but instead of finish with completely destroyed tyres and used material they deiceded to finish with material in good condition. That was the only difference. It wasn't because Webber was slower, he wasn't! But again, some of you here are unable to understand this simple logic.
 
SilverArrow
Horner, Newey and Vettel himself all said it was the wrong thing to do.
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Do you really think that the apology was sincere? Sounded more like giving everyone what they wanted to avoid further uproar. Lewis Hamilton, however, sounded and looked sympathetic towards Nico... or has he been taking acting classes? :sly:

At the end of the day, I hate team orders we want to see fair racing between everybody on the field not drivers needing 'conformation' to pass a team mate.

We have all seen the reactions of Red Bull after this incident, however, if it ended up wrongly for example if Mark squeezed Seb into the wall on the start/finish straight ending his race and maybe collecting a puncture or something in the process and handing Mercedes a 1-2 I wonder who Red Bull would've pinned the blame on, Mark for causing the collision or Seb for not following what the team asked him to do?
 
It's a matter of opinion.

Put yourself in Rosberg position for a moment...He was capable of punch in the face all their team by ordering him to be slow and not be able to go to the podium. Very fair! lol.

Teams decisions are not always the better ones IMO. And in this race they have proved it.

I'm positive that Vettel can retribute a 1st place to Webber during the championship once they get a similar situation (if needed).
 
zzz_pt
I'm positive that Vettel can retribute a 1st place to Webber during the championship once they get a similar situation (if needed).
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The fact is he won't because this year won't be like 2011, it will be close between maybe 3 or 4 drivers for the championship and by that time Seb will need all the points he can get so if he was 1st you wouldn't expect him to relinquish it.
 
05XR8
I didn't mind Schumi but, I liked Mika and JPM because they couldn't care less who he was.

I liked Seb when he won his first race. After that he went downhill from there. No respect for his elders...
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👍

Mika is still my favorite F1 driver.
 
Team orders are disgraceful. Just let the drivers race. It is a motor race after all.
And couldnt Webber have just turned his engine up?

All this is silly, it's just diluting F1 with drivers told to hold position to end.
And I dont give a care about tires, theyre made to be used so use them up and fight for position because nothing is 100% certain until the finish.
 
phil bell
Team orders are disgraceful. Just let the drivers race. It is a motor race after all.
And couldnt Webber have just turned his engine up?

All this is silly, it's just diluting F1 with drivers told to hold position to end.
And I dont give a care about tires, theyre made to be used so use them up and fight for position because nothing is 100% certain until the finish.
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He didn't turned it up because he was convinced that team will tell Vettel to stop this nonsense. If they haven't told him to turn it down he would win, but he would finished with used material (engine, gearbox ...).

Yes they are made to be used but with these tyres you can't push 100% because then we won't see 4 pit stop but even more. It's wiser to perserve tyres to keep pit stops at minimun because this way you gain much more time.

Real F1 died when they banned refueling and when Pirelli joined the team.
 
Then yeah, it wasnt an ethical move by Vettel, but I understand why Vettel fought for position though.
More worryingly, what is happening to F1... There shouldnt even be team orders and it should be made so drivers can race all out (tires, etc).
 
phil bell
Then yeah, it wasnt an ethical move by Vettel, but I understand why Vettel fought for position though.
More worryingly, what is happening to F1... There shouldnt even be team orders and it should be made so drivers can race all out (tires, etc).
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There have always been team orders in F1. To think this is a recent occurrence is quite ignorant of the sport's history.

And as far as the tires go, I am happy with any situation as long as the rules are the same for everyone. When we had perfect tires, people were complaining about them being able to last the whole race (Vettel in monza 2010). Now we get people complaining about them degrading. The truth is that no matter the regulations, someone is going to disagree with them. The thing that we should be worried about is DRS.
 
SkengD
DRS ?

We still arguing about DRS ?
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I still hate it :lol:

I think this is an extremely bad thing for red bull. The next time these drivers are in this situation, I fully expect a collision to occur. Horner and Newey also realize this considering the looks on their faces after the race. While team orders are a regular occurrence, bad blood between team-mates usually isn't. The only pairs of drivers I can think of that did not have a mutual understanding of team orders are the red bull boys and Micheal with Rubens while at Ferrari.
 
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It's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission - that's basically Vettel's mindset. It's both a winning formula and classless.
 
The spirit of sport (any sport including F1) is to fight for the win. In my opinion the combined results (for example force racing driver X take 1st and Y 2nd position) is unsporting and goes against the F1 spirit (and all sports to be honest).
 
Joie de vivre!
Yep, that is the point of racing. But people wanted more pitstops, they are getting a reality show for sure, but it's not about racing anymore.
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If they took out the tire degradation, DRS, KERS, and stuff that people whine about, we would be back to the days where a race sees two or three total on-track passes and folks would complain about the lack of passing. They lose no matter what they do.

Also, regarding team orders, I just want to reaffirm what another post already mentioned - that we always had them even when they were officially illegal. "Fernando is faster than you" is an excellent example of having them when they were technically illegal. In the more distant past there were even times when a driver gave up his car to his teammate in the middle of a race.
 
zzz_pt
The spirit of sport (any sport including F1) is to fight for the win. In my opinion the combined results (for example force racing driver X take 1st and Y 2nd position) is unsporting and goes against the F1 spirit (and all sports to be honest).
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It occurs in all of motorsport. The only championship that I hear people complain about it is in Formula 1. The truth is that the team only cares about the constructor's title rather than the driver's.

That being said, I think there is a proper way to do it and a wrong way. We saw both today with Mercedes and Red Bull respectively.

IceMan PJN
If they took out the tire degradation, DRS, KERS, and stuff that people whine about, we would be back to the days where a race sees two or three total on-track passes and folks would complain about the lack of passing. They lose no matter what they do.

Also, regarding team orders, I just want to reaffirm what another post already mentioned - that we always had them even when they were officially illegal. "Fernando is faster than you" is an excellent example of having them when they were technically illegal. In the more distant past there were even times when a driver gave up his car to his teammate in the middle of a race.
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Exactly! At least with these rules there is track action going on. F1 used to be too boring now apparently it is too exciting.:banghead:

Just let it be guys. :rolleyes:
 
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I've seen tension between drivers before, but as has been said, this took it a bit further, and I worry the bad blood could lead to a crash this season, which obviously would not be good for RBR.

As for the class vs winning spirit debate, it is racing, driving to win is indeed the point, but the fact that everyone is putting their lives on the line getting in those machines, and thus to a certain extent putting their lives in each others hands means there needs to be some level of tact and sportsmanship. ESPECIALLY between team mates. Vettel's disregard of team orders was not only a low blow knowing Webber would dial back his engine, but also a very sketchy and as someone mentioned desperate pass, that could have ended a lot worse for both of them than it did.

I respect the kids desire to win, but in this situation it was nothing more than a dick move. A big dick move.
 
Well, I finally watched the Malaysian Grand Prix, not too long ago and have it to say it was very, very entertaining. First of all Alonso's front wing. Why didn't he pit at the end of the first lap? My sister and I were discussing all throughout the first lap that it was blatantly dangerous to keep him out and we were proved right as soon as he had the accident. Must have been scary for him to have the front of his car blown up from underneath himself.

Next the first round of pit stops, boy. Hamilton going into the wrong box :lol: A repeat of Jensen from a few years ago if I remember correctly? Then when Force India had both drivers come in at once and have Di Resta's race go off the rails. Then with the unsafe release between two drivers, I can't remember which as I'm so excited after watching all that. Then both Force India's were forced to retire after another abissmal pit, such a shame on Di Resta, I was hoping he'd do well this race after a not so good qualifying. Jensens' race was, too, ruined by the front right tyre not being fitted properly and being released when he shouldn't have been. What action!

Then there's been the situation with Vettel/Webber and Hamilton/Rosberg. I guess there's already been a huge discussion about it already due to this thread having 41 pages, so I won't bother going into huge detail. Everyone's off their own opinion but I think it's wrong for drivers to be held back when they have the passion to get a high as possible, for Vettel that meant winning. Had Red Bull kept their drivers in the maintained positions, it would have been a false win for Webber, in my eyes. It's the same with Hamilton and Rosberg. Rosberg should have been on the podium instead, but that's obviously what it comes down to, what the teams want.

I'm a purist when it comes to most things and I'm of the view that the drivers shouldn't have been held back in this situation. We'll just have to wait and see what the team do.
 
I know that team orders do kinda spoil things but F1 is a team sport...and i bet Webber will get Vettel back later this season if the roles are reversed!
 
I think we would all like to see them race right to the end but that's not very realistic given the sums of money involved.

After the last pitstop, if a team instructs it's drivers to stop racing and bring the cars home to the finish in the order they are in then the drivers have to do that.

If a driver then goes on to disobey that instruction then 1. He has stolen the win and 2. He is probably in breach of his contract.
 
David Coulthard put it very nicely, "If you don't want risk, don't go racing."

Personally I hate team orders, I know they are acting in the teams best interests but it spoils a perfectly good race and robs the drivers of positions they have fought tooth and nail to get. The battle between the two red bulls was epic, such good driving, very risky, but I refer you to Coulthard's quote above.

So good on you Vettel.

Also with Mercedes, Brawn told Rosberg there's nothing up the road for you stay behind him. What about the podium? Why should Hamilton be allowed to stay ahead when Rosberg is clearly has the faster car and would be able to pass with minimum risk of contact?

In my opinion the drivers should be allowed to make their own decisions, they have earnt that seat, and that position in the race, it shouldn't be robbed from them by someone sat on their arse on the pit wall.
 
sumbrownkid
Webber be gettin' trolled hard by Vettel.
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How is it being 'trolled'? He went against a team agreement and screwed over his team-mate. His reputation is permanently damaged and the rest of the team are angry at him, nobody wins.
 
Pagey279
In my opinion the drivers should be allowed to make their own decisions, they have earnt that seat, and that position in the race, it shouldn't be robbed from them by someone sat on their arse on the pit wall.
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That's exactly what happened though, as someone on the pit wall told Webber to turn his engine down expecting that the race at the front was over. Which it was supposed to be.
 

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