2014 Grand Prix de Monaco

[Bo]

Fireworks tomorrow then?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Backing up as Lewis was passing by. Perfectly legal, doesn't impede anyone. What would be questionable is if he hadn't stopped backing up and actually joined the track whilst Hamilton or another car was there. He apologized because he's too nice. He shouldn't have apologized for reversing. Apologize for accidentally causing the yellow flags, yes. For reversing, absolutely not. Which part of this do you not get? Really.

Actually is does possibly impede due it possibly extending the yellow flag duration time. What part don't you get, because once again your the person that denies everything even when given pieces that say otherwise. Once again it's you vs everyone else because you have some almost masochistic want for it in Motorsports threads, which is strange to me.

And your other comment if serious obviously proves that all you're here for to get attention by disagreeing with others and arguing for the sake of it. At this point it seems you purposely misunderstand people, and it's obvious why reversing on to a track with cars is an issue.

If say Kvyat or Lewis had this random understeer and lock up as Nico did there is potential that they too would have gone off and collided into the back of a reversing Nico. Now a car come down from 160+ into the back of a say 5 mph car going backwards is quite the potential catastrophic incident. Just like with pit crews making a simple blunder on a tire that may not come off on pit road, the fact that there is a potential for danger is what is punished and that is why people and the FIA questioned Rosberg. Also I said early on and I can grab the quote that I didn't think Nico did it on purpose but hey the more you know.

 

[BHRxRacer]

It was not uncalled for at all. It was suspicious, and the stewards were right to look into it.

*Sigh* The incident itself or reversing? Incident was 10% suspicious yes. Reversing was not. As a matter of fact, I think Nico was doing the whole grid a favour by rejoining the track. Otherwise The yellow flag would've stayed there for the whole session and the last few guys over the line couldn't have finished their laps.

Actually is does possibly impede due it possibly extending the yellow flag duration time.

Actually it shortened the yellow flag duration time. That flag wasn't going to stop waving until his car and the marshals are clear, as was the case this whole weekend.

What don't YOU get about that?

If say Kvyat or Lewis had this random understeer and lock up as Nico did there is potential that they too would have gone off and collided into the back of a reversing Nico.

**

That's the point of having yellow flags. To slow down the cars and avoid them hitting that obstacle.

that is why people and the FIA questioned Rosberg

Don't bring up the FIA into this. You started it before the FIA announced they were going to investigate it. Also like I said, they might have had different reasons why they did. They never said what he's being investigated for exactly. They vaguely wrote "turn 5 incident"

I'm going to ignore your usual accusations by the way. Attacking someone and calling him a liar, masochist etc is the last refuge to someone with little hope in an argument and I won't do the same to you.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

*Sigh* The incident itself or reversing? Incident was 10% suspicious yes. Reversing was not. As a matter of fact, I think Nico was doing the whole grid a favour by rejoining the track. Otherwise The yellow flag would've stayed there for the whole session and the last few guys over the line couldn't have finished their laps.

What do you not get...LEWIS WAS THE LAST CAR! This has been said over and over to you and you are purposely ignoring it to fulfill your agenda. Please stop acting as if this hasn't been told to you.

There were no other cars that had a potential to make the line for another lap because they would have been on cool down. There was less than 30 seconds on the clock for Q3, you act like it was the start of Q3 when it wasn't.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'll be cheering on Rosberg, the butt-hurt from Hamilton is immense. He threatened to put Alonso in the wall at Spa once, now he's inferring (by inferring he'd take the Senna approach) that he'd take Rosberg out if it became necessary...

 

[niky]

Not very good at detecting online sarcasm are you? This is the dawn of broadband all over again..

It's pretty obvious. My response was fairly serious. You meant it as a joke, I didn't. He did have no reason to rejoin the track till after the end of the session.

What's unusual about rejoining the track? You just said it's within his rights. It's not unusual at all, and not worth discussing.

If you place yourself close enough to the track to extend the yellow, that's impeding. Which is why this is being discussed. Even if it is not strictly illegal.

Joking about having a bomb is illegal and an awful thing to do on an airplane. Wanting to go back to the pits isn't.
Ignore this. It's becoming unnecessary.

Wanting is not illegal. Trying to get back to the pits and getting in the way of other cars is. Again, he did not do that, so no penalty. The discussion is whether he intentionally started backing up to extend a yellow. Personally, I do not believe he did, but the timing of the action certainly raises suspicions.

He apologized if his attempt at rejoining impeded anyone. It's like apologizing if a joke offended someone. Doesn't mean you intended on doing it.

How can it be intentional if it didn't exist? He did NOT impede Hamilton by reversing. If he did impede anyone, then and only then do you we even begin to discuss his intention. This is the discussion here. Ignore all other points.

Rosberg is trying to emphasize that he didn't do this on purpose. That falls under "suspiciously specific denial." Once you deny a crime, even if you haven't committed one, you force the authorities to investigate to clear you of it. Which they did, and they did.

I'm all for questioning someone's hidden intent but you need to look at someone's history, the action and circumstances to do that. He could've been thinking about stabbing Hamilton when he woke up this morning, but we don't know that and it's silly to question it.

It's a silly comparison. He didn't stab Hamilton. He did, however, cause Hamilton's lap to be scuppered through thoroughly legal means. Even if he is guilty, there's no evidence of any crime and nothing done after the incident can be construed as against the rules. (Again, don't believe he's guilty).

To clear anything up, my initial responses to @LMSCorvetteGT2 and @Samus were me thinking they're talking about the mistake not reversing.

The mistake itself is also suspicious on the top of it. I'm of the opinion it was an honest mistake, but viewing that short clip outside the context of the entire lap, it is rather suspicious looking. Personally, I thought it looked like overdriving, but within the context of the situation, it had to be investigated.

 

[BHRxRacer]

What do you not get...LEWIS WAS THE LAST CAR! This has been said over and over to you and you are purposely ignoring it to fulfill your agenda. Please stop acting as if this hasn't been told to you.

There were no other cars that had a potential to make the line for another lap because they would have been on cool down. There was less than 30 seconds on the clock for Q3, you act like it was the start of Q3 when it wasn't.

..Was he the last car over the line? Not that it makes a damn difference, but I'm just asking.

It's pretty obvious. My response was fairly serious. You meant it as a joke, I didn't. He did have no reason to rejoin the track till after the end of the session.

He didn't need a reason. Let's ignore this part and move on to the core of this discussion shall we?

If you place yourself close enough to the track to extend the yellow, that's impeding. Which is why this is being discussed. Even if it is not strictly illegal.

There was nothing he could possibly do to extend the yellow, even if he wanted to. That yellow was staying until he's out of there one way or another.

Rosberg is trying to emphasize that he didn't do this on purpose. That falls under "suspiciously specific denial." Once you deny a crime, even if you haven't committed one, you force the authorities to investigate to clear you of it. Which they did, and they did.

He was asked about it by the interviewer. I'll have to rewatch the post-quali interviews again soon but IIRC he didn't come out of the blues and scream "I DIDN'T REVERSE INTENTIONALLY".

He did, however, cause Hamilton's lap to be scuppered through thoroughly legal means.

By making a mistake, yes. Not by reversing. Reversing had no effect.

The mistake itself is also suspicious on the top of it. I'm of the opinion it was an honest mistake, but viewing that short clip outside the context of the entire lap, it is rather suspicious looking. Personally, I thought it looked like overdriving, but within the context of the situation, it had to be investigated.

I don't really have a problem with anyone thinking the mistake itself was suspicious.

I'll be cheering on Rosberg, the butt-hurt from Hamilton is immense. He threatened to put Alonso in the wall at Spa once, now he's inferring (by inferring he'd take the Senna approach) that he'd take Rosberg out if it became necessary...

Hilarious, isn't it? Just days ago he's saying he's hungrier than Nico and he'll do whatever it takes. Now that Nico, in Lewis' mind, is showing hunger, he starts crying.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Actually it shortened the yellow flag duration time. That flag wasn't going to stop waving until his car and the marshals are clear, as was the case this whole weekend.

What don't YOU get about that?

You keep saying that, but all the other incidents that had yellows so far this weekend from what I saw didn't give the car the ability to escape danger vie escape road. So show me otherwise.

That's the point of having yellow flags. To slow down the cars and avoid them hitting that obstacle.

That doesn't make it right for you to enter on coming traffic, they may be slowing down but they in no way need to yield to a car reversing because he can't wait or thinks he can salvage what's left of a session that was ended.

Don't bring up the FIA into this. You started it before the FIA announced they were going to investigate it. Also like I said, they might have had different reasons why they did. They never said what he's being investigated for exactly. They vaguely wrote "turn 5 incident"

No I didn't, if you plan to misquote me in what I regarded the situation as initially then go ahead, but you'd be in violation of aup.

Also it's not vague he was being investigated for the situation at turn 5, in a general sense from start to finish. The entire event, if it was a piece such as him reversing or stopping they would have made it clear. So instead it was for the entire culmination.

I'm going to ignore your usual accusations by the way. Attacking someone and calling him a liar, masochist etc is the last refuge to someone with little hope in an argument and I won't do the same to you.

Go ahead and ignore them, I'm just telling it like I see it. Each GP or F1 related thread, it pretty much a guarantee that you'll be there to argue up a storm and disagree with as many people as possible. No it's not a last refuge, you trying to decided that and claim a straw man fallacy on my part to make this all go away and show some flaws on my premise is ironic really.

Yes he did!

I don't know you could see him get out of shape halfway down the straight

This is what I initially said on the matter by the way, the first part is me being sarcastic while the second part is how I actually feel. I too thought Nico just made an error like sessions past.

..Was he the last car over the line? Not that it makes a damn difference, but I'm just asking.

Yeah unless you want to argue Sky Sports on the matter then be my guest. He was the last car on a flying lap.

Hilarious, isn't it? Just days ago he's saying he's hungrier than Nico and he'll do whatever it takes. Now that Nico, in Lewis' mind, is showing hunger, he starts crying.

You have this innate ability to awkwardly misread situations...how does what he just said in any way show that Nico is some how in his head. If anything it shows that he's mad and if need be will really make Nico suffer for his mistake. Is it right? No not really, cause now he's only perpetuating the wrong by being more wrong and Nico will surely do the same...so in a sense Lewis is acting foolish in the heat of the moment.

Also not sure how feeling wrong is equated to crying? This is a new definition of crying I've yet to discover but all of your own invention I see.

 

[Roflwaffle]

So, this thread turned into a train wreck.

 

[niky]

He didn't need a reason. Let's ignore this part and move on to the core of this discussion shall we?

You can't ignore something that has bearing on a case. Sorry.

"My client had every right to be driving through the red light district at three in the morning. He didn't need a reason to be there."

There was nothing he could possibly do to extend the yellow, even if he wanted to. That yellow was staying until he's out of there one way or another.

False. If he stops the car right at the edge of the track where other cars overcooking the corner could hit it, that yellow stays till his car is moved.

By making a mistake, yes. Not by reversing. Reversing had no effect.

As per above, if he'd continued reversing, he would have had that effect on anyone else coming by. Which is why he had to wait.

Again, no need to get back on track until you're sure everything is clear.

 

[86Debris86]

@BHRxRacer you amaze me. I am amazed.

I don't really want to get involved in this tiresome and extremely repetitive discussion, but I do wonder how many times do you need giving correct information before you accept it as fact?

-

On Rosberg:

*puts tinfoil hat on*

As soon as I saw him sawing at the wheel I started thinking it was intentional to cause a yellow flag incident and prevent Lewis from setting a faster time. The footage of him doing so only served to confirm my suspicions. As for reversing back onto the track, WTF Nico? You know not to do that in Qually.

On one hand I think it's a shame he wasn't punished, but on the other hand we get to see two Mercs taken out at turn 1 tomorrow as Lewis attempts to get past his (slower) team mate. Should be fun!

 

[Roflwaffle]

Suzuka 1990, anyone?

 

[BHRxRacer]

You keep saying that, but all the other incidents that had yellows so far this weekend from what I saw didn't give the car the ability to escape danger vie escape road. So show me otherwise.

Ericsson was one. I think there were a few down Nouvelle chicane as well, but I won't rewatch every session just to make a list. The Ericsson incident was enough. True, he's a god damn moron for reversing ALL the way to the middle of the track with no regard to oncoming cars, but he did have the right to rejoin and the yellows didn't stop waving until he did.

That doesn't make it right for you to enter on coming traffic, they may be slowing down but they in no way need to yield to a car reversing because he can't wait or thinks he can salvage what's left of a session that was ended.

He didn't. Thanks for saying that and justifying what I've been doing here for the past hours.

No I didn't, if you plan to misquote me in what I regarded the situation as initially then go ahead, but you'd be in violation of aup.

Here

Exactly, and as I said earlier I figured this and as it should be.

So by your own admission you "figured" it was going to happen and it should.

Also it's not vague he was being investigated for the situation at turn 5, in a general sense from start to finish. The entire event, if it was a piece such as him reversing or stopping they would have made it clear. So instead it was for the entire culmination.

It is vague considering there are two separate violations under discussion here. Deliberately going off track to cause a yellow flag, and then there's "reversing" to keep the yellow flag which you claim.

Go ahead and ignore them, I'm just telling it like I see it. Each GP or F1 related thread, it pretty much a guarantee that you'll be there to argue up a storm and disagree with as many people as possible. No it's not a last refuge, you trying to decided that and claim a straw man fallacy on my part to make this all go away and show some flaws on my premise is ironic really.

I would've at least given you that much, since it does happen often, but after two particular incidents recently where you flat out called me a liar, I now realize you're just feeling this way because you're somehow hurt by these discussions.

Yeah unless you want to argue Sky Sports on the matter then be my guest. He was the last car on a flying lap.

I literally said I wasn't sure if he was the last over the line, yet you're trying to make it as if I'm arguing it. Typical.

You have this innate ability to awkwardly misread situations...how does what he just said in any way show that Nico is some how in his head. If anything it shows that he's mad and if need be will really make Nico suffer for his mistake. Is it right? No not really, cause now he's only perpetuating the wrong by being more wrong and Nico will surely do the same...so in a sense Lewis is acting foolish in the heat of the moment.

You have this innate ability to take words I typed out of context and misread them completely.
"In his mind"= What Lewis thinks. His view that Nico had staged this whole thing.
"In his mind"=/= Rosberg got into Lewis' head.

Also not sure how feeling wrong is equated to crying? This is a new definition of crying I've yet to discover but all of your own invention I see.

So when @MatskiMonk said Hamilton was butthurt he'd examined Lewis' buttocks right after qualifying? Right. Do you have any argument against me where you don't take a figure of speech literally or certain words out of context?

You can't ignore something that has bearing on a case. Sorry.

There isn't the case. That's the point.

"My client had every right to be driving through the red light district at three in the morning. He didn't need a reason to be there."

He didn't run through the red light. What you guys are doing is "The accused has intentionally run the light" without proving that he ran the light in the first place.

False. If he stops the car right at the edge of the track where other cars overcooking the corner could hit it, that yellow stays till his car is moved.

You mean the part highlighted in red by Samus? How do you know that, sir? Even David Croft implied otherwise.

Again, no need to get back on track until you're sure everything is clear.

That's what he did. He didn't get back ON the track until everything was indeed clear. Let's focus on the red highlighted part.

@BHRxRacer you amaze me. I am amazed.

I don't really want to get involved in this tiresome and extremely repetitive discussion, but I do wonder how many times do you need giving correct information before you accept it as fact?

I don't see facts, I see the opposite of them. The only thing that MAY be argued as a "fact" is whether or not the yellow flags were going to be dropped if Nico parked his car. In that regard, I have seen no "correct informtaion", and no evidence supporting it.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Suzuka 1990, anyone?

Well words and on track action so far make Nico nervous. I guess if LH does this tough guy act it will make Rosberg have a bad start...

I doubt it will happen like that, and Lewis would be very stupid to do such a thing.

 

[BHRxRacer]

"I don't know if Senna and Prost sat down and talked it out. I quite like the way Senna dealt with it so I'm going to take a page out of his book."


Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/159869.html#2t9XdM7A5eP5i2vz.99

I just read that. Looking forward to him taking Nico out on purpose and getting disqualified from the whole season, as they did with Schumacher in 97.

I'm off to bed. I'll rewatch the last bits of Q3 tomorrow before the race and respond to you guys.

 

[86Debris86]

I don't see facts, I see the opposite of them. The only thing that MAY be argued as a "fact" is whether or not the yellow flags were going to be dropped if Nico parked his car. In that regard, I have seen no "correct informtaion", and no evidence supporting it.

Then you should go back about 5 pages and read from there. People have told you. They've told you over and over. You have the information, all that's standing in your way is your inability to accept it.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Sainte Devote lap 1 will be interesting. If I was Rosberg, I'd leave plenty of room on the outside if I didn't want to end up in the barriers.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Ericsson was one. I think there were a few down Nouvelle chicane as well, but I won't rewatch every session just to make a list. The Ericsson incident was enough. True, he's a god damn moron for reversing ALL the way to the middle of the track with no regard to oncoming cars, but he did have the right to rejoin and the yellows didn't stop waving until he did.

Yeah he had to right to rejoin if it was clear, if cars are coming then no he doesn't because then he is creating a potential accident/issue. Who the hell cares if yellow flags are waving it doesn't stop accidents from happening.

He didn't. Thanks for saying that and justifying what I've been doing here for the past hours.

Yeah he did, hence why he said he did. How did I justify you again.

Here

So by your own admission you "figured" it was going to happen and it should.

Referring to an earlier comment means what exactly, I showed my initial belief on this subject, as Sky sports F1 and other outlets started questioning the actions of him reversing so did I because it looked odd for a professional driver in that situation to pull what a rookie would and did ironically on the same track.

It is vague considering there are two separate violations under discussion here. Deliberately going off track to cause a yellow flag, and then there's "reversing" to keep the yellow flag which you claim.

They aren't separate it's all apart of one incident and even you just made it obvious with what I've quoted here.

I would've at least given you that much, since it does happen often, but after two particular incidents recently where you flat out called me a liar, I now realize you're just feeling this way because you're somehow hurt by these discussions.

Hurt? How so, I just think people reading this should know the facts and the fact is you distort reality. Don't do it if you don't like the label.

I literally said I wasn't sure if he was the last over the line, yet you're trying to make it as if I'm arguing it. Typical.

It's typical that you'd get emotional over arguing as well. Next time just clarify like a big boy and you wont have to exhaust your emotional disdain toward arguments.

You have this innate ability to take words I typed out of context and misread them completely.
"In his mind"= What Lewis thinks. His view that Nico had staged this whole thing.
"In his mind"=/= Rosberg got into Lewis' head.

Always found it funny how you take things from what I previously say and mimic it to throw it back at me, glad I'm that big of an influence on you. As for what you said, I can only tell you to obtain better context.

So when @MatskiMonk said Hamilton was butthurt he'd examined Lewis' buttocks right after qualifying? Right. Do you have any argument against me where you don't take a figure of speech literally or certain words out of context?

I don't know that seems like something you'd be privy too. It's not my thing to follow F1 that close

I'm not taking anything out of context, I've told you this before and so have others it's the internet and until something can automatically register sarcasm and then convey it to another person without being told by the sender you should probably inform people it's a joke. I just did it in my last comment to make sure there wasn't any confusion and I'm not getting upset about having to do it like you do.

Also save your breathe on responding tomorrow the outcome of the race will be far more important than what transpired today.

 

[SilverArrow]

I just read that. Looking forward to him taking Nico out on purpose and getting disqualified from the whole season, as they did with Schumacher in 97.

Didn't think you were allowed to say you wanted to see a driver crash.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Didn't think you were allowed to say you wanted to see a driver crash.

That is NOT what I said. That is NOT something I would say.

Okay, as LMSCorvetteGT2 pointed out. My mistake.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That is NOT what I said. That is NOT something I would say.

He didn't quote you...

 

[86Debris86]

Sainte Devote lap 1 will be interesting. If I was Rosberg, I'd leave plenty of room on the outside if I didn't want to end up in the barriers.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him attempt to do a Lewis in Bahrain and just not let him past. If he does do that, I don't think Lewis'll take it as well as Nico did and he'll more than likely take Nico out (and himself) in a questionable attempt to get by. Assuming they're not both fighting each other at the side of the track after a turn 1 incident that is .

 

[Spurgy 777]

Just watched the qualifying, think it's safe to say Rosberg did what he did on purpose. He had no reason to move the wheel like he did, and it will almost guarantee a lock-up. And then reversing back towards the track whilst people are still lapping, which I'm surprised he wasn't penalised for. Anyway, tomorrow should be a very exciting parade race.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I'm sorry but I don't understand one thing. The yellow flag came out when Rosberg got off track and entered the escape route /off track area. What you guys are saying is that the yellow flag would disappear with Rosberg staying put in that same escape route? In any other thread I would call rubbish to such a claim, but considering 99% of the posters here are saying that (some I do respect and read for years now), I'll have to assume it is true.

That being the case, Rosberg returning to the track was indeed a very wrong move.



However, let me state this. If a car goes out at Monaco and remains off the track but not BEHIND barriers, as it happened, I would call insane to the race director that goes back to green in such conditions. If one car can go there by late braking, there's nothing preventing a second car to do the exact same thing. This is more obvious at Sainte Devote but it is also true in that corner. A car stopped in the escape route is a yellow flag until it goes out or is removed.

In the end, and if the yellows (as I think is right) wouldn't be lifted unless Rosberg got out of there, he did what he had to do.

Then again, you guys are apparently saying the track would go green again with him deep down in that alley ... hmmm

 

[Roflwaffle]

Tomorrow will certainly be interesting...

 

[TenEightyOne]

Did Rosberg just do a cleverer version of The Schumacher?

EDIT: Tree'd... but I call dibs!

I dibsed too so, yeah

Uh... first moderator, then?

Yes, definitely, now you've played the M-card my memory of dibs is fading...

Looking carefully at the replay I don't think it was intentional but I genuinely do think that Nico's had some stern words from Keke about psyching.

I also think that, as their relationship turns more and more competitive, that we might see Mercedes actually giving orders in races at some point later this season... and by then nobody will be surprised.

 

[Ninners]

I wonder if Bieber is doing podium interviews.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I wonder if Bieber is doing podium interviews.

I would problem have breathing issues due to the laughter it'd cause. Imagine if Alonso got podium and Beiber were the one to interview.

 

[Lizard]

Just watched the qualifying, think it's safe to say Rosberg did what he did on purpose. He had no reason to move the wheel like he did, and it will almost guarantee a lock-up. And then reversing back towards the track whilst people are still lapping, which I'm surprised he wasn't penalised for. Anyway, tomorrow should be a very exciting parade race.

Except he went over a bump and then started trying to correct it. The bump down that straight is so big everyone swerves round it. Maybe he just caught it wrong trying to position the car back for the corner?
Anyway you all seem to miss the issue. He didn't spin or anything he locked up which could be nothing to do with it. That lock up is enough to miss the corner as we saw with Magnuson at turn 1.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Except he went over a bump and then started trying to correct it. The bump down that straight is so big everyone swerves round it. Maybe he just caught it wrong trying to position the car back for the corner?
Anyway you all seem to miss the issue. He didn't spin or anything he locked up which could be nothing to do with it. That lock up is enough to miss the corner as we saw with Magnuson at turn 1.