2014 Grand Prix de Monaco

[BHRxRacer]

I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm having a conversation in a forum, and wondering why he decided to back and and wondering if it was or wasn't safe. I've not straight up said he was dirty or dangerous and I'm certainly not upset, I have no emotional investment in a F1 discussion on an internet message board.

Questioning someone's action, especially when those actions are clearly within their right, is nothing short of an accusation. Why so curious? So he wanted to go back to the pits on his own. Big deal.

If you have no emotional investment in a sport you shouldn't be watching it. Discussing it online is another thing.

 

[Samus]

Questioning someone's action, especially when those actions are clearly within their right, is nothing short of an accusation. Why so curious? So he wanted to go back to the pits on his own. Big deal.

If you have no emotional investment in a sport you shouldn't be watching it. Discussing it online is another thing.

You know the purpose of a discussion forum, right? People bring up thoughts, ideas and questions, others respond to them. I'm not directly accusing Rosberg of anything, I don't know the man and he's not here. Why am I so curious? I'm not, i'm simply discussing what happened in the F1 qualifying I just watched. Isn't that how things usually go? I throw out the question "Why did he decide to reverse back out onto the track", other people respond. I'm sorry if your heavy bias is clouding your view of the simple conversation here.

Oh, and said I had no emotional investment in this conversation.

 

[Ninners]

This account seems to have some info on it.

 

[GTPorsche]

This account seems to have some info on it.

And very good info at that..

 

[Saidur_Ali]

He got away with it. Will be interesting start to the race, hopefully no crash in first corner.

 

[BHRxRacer]

You know the purpose of a discussion forum, right? People bring up thoughts, ideas and questions, others respond to them. I'm not directly accusing Rosberg of anything, I don't know the man and he's not here. Why am I so curious? I'm not, i'm simply discussing what happened in the F1 qualifying I just watched. Isn't that how things usually go? I throw out the question "Why did he decide to reverse back out onto the track", other people respond. I'm sorry if your heavy bias is clouding your view of the simple conversation here.

Oh, and said I had no emotional investment in this conversation.

Feel free to bring up ideas, and question what you want to question. But when you do bring up something, elaborate. I'm simply asking you, why you question what is so obviously a no-incident. If you have an answer, please tell me. If not, then just ignore the whole thing.

 

[niky]

Questioning someone's action, especially when those actions are clearly within their right, is nothing short of an accusation. Why so curious? So he wanted to go back to the pits on his own. Big deal.

Rules in qualifying are a bit different from in-race. You are not allowed to perform actions that will impede other drivers' flying laps. Even if he has the right to get back on track at other times, starting to reverse back onto it while other drivers are on their flying lap is a no-no.

If you have no emotional investment in a sport you shouldn't be watching it. Discussing it online is another thing.

One can watch F1 for the spectacle of the racing without caring one bit for the politics, one way or the other. Samus wasn't one to jump the gun and say "guilty" at the start of this discussion. The question is a valid one, which is why the fans and stewards are asking it.

Rosberg was done. There was absolutely no reason to get back onto the track until the very last drivers on hot laps had passed and it was clear. In fact, waiting would have been the smart thing to do, as it would cause no controversy at all.

EDIT: And... yup. No penalty. Because he wasn't on track when he started reversing.

Whatever the truth, glad of that. Let it all be settled on the racetrack!

 

[mattythedog]

I'm glad there was no penalty, means we'll get a race. I'm really looking forward to T1 tomorrow now.

 

[GTPorsche]

Probably would have been difficult to determine guilt in that situation, but even still, he shouldn't have reversed there.

 

[Ninners]

 

[BHRxRacer]

Rules in qualifying are a bit different from in-race. You are not allowed to perform actions that will impede other drivers' flying laps. Even if he has the right to get back on track at other times, starting to reverse back onto it while other drivers are on their flying lap is a no-no.

He didn't impede anyone. It's that simple, folks. So if he had done a 180 and rejoined the track nose-first, it would be okay? :/

It's all about WHEN he joins the track, not how.

One can watch F1 for the spectacle of the racing without caring one bit for the politics, one way or the other. Samus wasn't one to jump the gun and say "guilty" at the start of this discussion. The question is a valid one, which is why the fans and stewards are asking it.

It's not a valid question unless we've seen evidence that he joined the track while someone is there.

By the way there really is no such thing as spectacle of racing. Casual fans "watch" it because the car look cool and fast etc, sure but it's more looking than it is watching.

Rosberg was done. There was absolutely no reason to get back onto the track until the very last drivers on hot laps had passed and it was clear. In fact, waiting would have been the smart thing to do, as it would cause no controversy at all.

Quote a rule that says you must let everyone on a hot lap finish the session to rejoin. Also, waiting that long would've overheated his engine and possibly damaged it.

 

[Samus]

Having a discussion with you that isn't extremely frustrating is seemingly impossible.

Feel free to bring up ideas, and question what you want to question. But when you do bring up something, elaborate. I'm simply asking you, why you question what is so obviously a no-incident. If you have an answer, please tell me. If not, then just ignore the whole thing.

If it was so obvious there wouldn't have been an investigation. There was, they investigated it, they found it to be ok. I'm fine with that. Onwards to the race.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He didn't impede anyone. It's that simple, folks. So if he had done a 180 and rejoined the track nose-first, it would be okay? :/

It's all about WHEN he joins the track, not how.

That's what people are telling you, you declaring them not because you can't read correctly and then proclaiming later on that you know what your talking about isn't right.

No where did anyone say that how he joined the track was wrong, but rather joining the track like he did at the time he die was highly questionable. So much so that the stewards thought it was worth investigating.

Quote a rule that says you must let everyone on a hot lap finish the session to rejoin. Also, waiting that long would've overheated his engine and possibly damaged it.

No it wouldn't have...

31.7 Any driver taking part in any practice session who, in the opinion of the stewards, stops unnecessarily on the circuit or unnecessarily impedes another driver shall be subject to the penalties referred to in Article 31.6.

Having a discussion with you that isn't extremely frustrating is seemingly impossible.



If it was so obvious there wouldn't have been an investigation. There was, they investigated it, they found it to be ok. I'm fine with that. Onwards to the race.

Exactly this.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Having a discussion with you that isn't extremely frustrating is seemingly impossible.

Try being my girlfriend.

If it was so obvious there wouldn't have been an investigation. There was, they investigated it, they found it to be ok. I'm fine with that. Onwards to the race.

Incorrect. There would be an investigation even if it's obvious to us watching on TV, for two reasons at least. The first being, well, stewards have shown in the past to be imbeciles. The second reason is, maybe they saw Rosberg reverse into another car that ISN'T Hamilton's. We didn't see that, thus we have no right to question it.

No where did anyone say that how he joined the track was wrong, but rather joining the track like he did at the time he die was highly questionable. So much so that the stewards thought it was worth investigating.

We saw ZERO footage of him rejoining the track. THAT, is why you had/have no right to question it. THAT, is why I called you out.

 

[Samus]

Point proven. I shall just ignore you in future, because you're impossible to converse with.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

We saw ZERO footage of him rejoining the track. THAT, is why you had/have no right to question it. THAT, is why I called you out.

Um wrong again, he said himself (Nico Rosberg) that he was backing up as Lewis was passing by. He even apologized about doing this because he thinks Lewis felt it was on purpose to extend the yellow. Due to this that is why he has been questioned. You're calling us out because you don't understand how evidence works and are so myopic in thought that you think only a singular piece is used and if that piece isn't seen then don't ask about it.

Fact of the matter is Nico the driver in question told the world what he did, and thus was investigated for the entire incident and came clear. Which is good for me and everyone else as far as the race goes.

EDIT: Hamilton's car was last car on track. Unless you're talking about Kvyat who was ahead of Hamilton.

 

[niky]

He didn't impede anyone. It's that simple, folks. So if he had done a 180 and rejoined the track nose-first, it would be okay? :/

It's all about WHEN he joins the track, not how.

He can legally rejoin the track.

That he actually started the attempt when there was no need to get back on the track at all is what makes people suspicious. The when that wouldn't have been suspicious is after everyone else had crossed at the checkered flag.

Remember, I said the incident didn't look planned, and he did try to stay off the track until Hamilton was passed.

It's not a valid question unless we've seen evidence that he joined the track while someone is there.

He knew he couldn't, which is why he stopped reversing.

By the way there really is no such thing as spectacle of racing. Casual fans "watch" it because the car look cool and fast etc, sure but it's more looking than it is watching.

Oh, come off it. We all watch for different reasons. There are people who can watch an entire race and be enthralled by the spectacle, the strategy and the racecraft without getting emotionally involved with any of the drivers.

Quote a rule that says you must let everyone on a hot lap finish the session to rejoin. Also, waiting that long would've overheated his engine and possibly damaged it.

I didn't say it was illegal. I said there was no reason to. And if he wanted to avoid any suspicion, he would have stayed out. He would need to have kept a few corners between himself and any hotlappers behind him to stay out of trouble... which would mean wasting tires for no reason at all.

From a tactical and political point of view, sitting still until everyone on a hot lap had passed was the correct thing to do.

Remember, you've stated the opinion elsewhere that everything that's legal isn't exactly right... right? You've railed against people exploiting loopholes to gain an unfair advantage. Well... parking in the run-off (legal), causing a yellow flag (legal) that scuppers your competitors' hot laps (still legal, as you're not on the track at that point), is a loophole that allows an unfair advantage. And you don't even have to do it on purpose. Just overdrive the last lap.

This is not to say that I believe Rosberg to be guilty of attempting to impede Hamilton. I stated so at the very first... saying that the incident looked accidental. But it was not a smart idea to start backing up, as that helped call more attention (as did his apology for backing up) to an incident that might have gone unremarked upon otherwise.

 

[Peasantslayer]

At least we can take comfort in the fact that this sort of stunt will be much harder to pull in the remaining circuits.

 

[BHRxRacer]

I'm willing to ban myself if either of you can explain why you questioned the reversing incident. Especially since you started it before he was officially under investigation.

edit

That was @Samus and @LMSCorvetteGT2 . Replying to niky.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Whilst it makes absolutely no difference to what happened Nico never actually left the track because no white lines have been painted on the edge of the road at Mirabeau since the resurfacing.

Also great lap from Vettel, his ERS problems were costing his 0.4s per lap and he lost more time in the NR yellows but still qualified on the 2nd row.

 

[BHRxRacer]

He can legally rejoin the track.

BUT BUT....WHY? He had no reason to!!!!!1

That he actually started the attempt when there was no need to get back on the track at all is what makes people suspicious. The when that wouldn't have been suspicious is after everyone else had crossed at the checkered flag.

...And all I did was question the uncalled for suspiciousness.

Remember, I said the incident didn't look planned, and he did try to stay off the track until Hamilton was passed.

Please say that to @LMSCorvetteGT2 who's been pounding me to give him proof of that.

He knew he couldn't, which is why he stopped reversing.

Exactly, no penalty necessary then.

Oh, come off it. We all watch for different reasons. There are people who can watch an entire race and be enthralled by the spectacle, the strategy and the racecraft without getting emotionally involved with any of the drivers.

You know what I don't actually disagree with you on this, so I won't reply.

I didn't say it was illegal. I said there was no reason to. And if he wanted to avoid any suspicion, he would have stayed out. He would need to have kept a few corners between himself and any hotlappers behind him to stay out of trouble... which would mean wasting tires for no reason at all.

You don't do things in life to avoid suspicion. He had NO reason NOT to rejoin the track. Why bother stay out? Because Hamilton's fans are going to call conspiracy theory? **** that.

From a tactical and political point of view, sitting still until everyone on a hot lap had passed was the correct thing to do.

It would've been better for him to avoid suspicion like you said, but why should anyone let these things dictate his life or career? It's like me saying, oh I'm not going to speak Arabic on the plane so that the racist asshole next to me doesn't **** his pants.

Remember, you've stated the opinion elsewhere that everything that's legal isn't exactly right... right?

Yes. If Nico had gone out of his car and started waving at Hamilton passing by to distract him, then it's dirty. If Nico went off on purpose, it's dirty. I highly doubt it was even on his mind that rejoining the track was going to impede anyone let alone illegal. It didn't even occur to me until I saw you guys complaining about it.

This is not to say that I believe Rosberg to be guilty of attempting to impede Hamilton. I stated so at the very first... saying that the incident looked accidental. But it was not a smart idea to start backing up, as that helped call more attention (as did his apology for backing up) to an incident that might have gone unremarked upon otherwise.

Smart, better for him. Maybe. I replied to that.

edit

Um wrong again, he said himself (Nico Rosberg) that he was backing up as Lewis was passing by. He even apologized about doing this because he thinks Lewis felt it was on purpose to extend the yellow. Due to this that is why he has been questioned. You're calling us out because you don't understand how evidence works and are so myopic in thought that you think only a singular piece is used and if that piece isn't seen then don't ask about it.

Fact of the matter is Nico the driver in question told the world what he did, and thus was investigated for the entire incident and came clear. Which is good for me and everyone else as far as the race goes.

EDIT: Hamilton's car was last car on track. Unless you're talking about Kvyat who was ahead of Hamilton.

Backing up as Lewis was passing by. Perfectly legal, doesn't impede anyone. What would be questionable is if he hadn't stopped backing up and actually joined the track whilst Hamilton or another car was there. He apologized because he's too nice. He shouldn't have apologized for reversing. Apologize for accidentally causing the yellow flags, yes. For reversing, absolutely not. Which part of this do you not get? Really.

 

[BHRxRacer]

oops. Delete

 

[Peasantslayer]

Can't we create a new thread for this called F1 2014 (BHRxRacer vs everyone else)? As long as Lewis gets him into T1 I'll be happy but that'll be hard because the run is so short and even with a bad start you can simply brake a bit later and block off the other driver.

 

[niky]

BUT BUT....WHY? He had no reason to!!!!!1

Uh. Exactly.

...And all I did was question the uncalled for suspiciousness.

Why? Why is Nico beyond reproach? It's an unusual action, which he apologized for. It's worth discussing.

You don't do things in life to avoid suspicion. He had NO reason NOT to rejoin the track. Why bother stay out? Because Hamilton's fans are going to call conspiracy theory? **** that.

I've already explained this. No reason to explain it again. Lewis and many other drivers have been penalized for these things in qualifying numerous times in the past. You do your utmost to avoid doing absolutely anything that can be construed as obstructing another driver in qualifying. If you aren't, then you're being stupid.

It would've been better for him to avoid suspicion like you said, but why should anyone let these things dictate his life or career? It's like me saying, oh I'm not going to speak Arabic on the plane so that the racist asshole next to me doesn't **** his pants.

Your seatmate doesn't have the law on his side. If you make a joke about having a bomb on you... on the other hand... then yes, you can expect some uncomfortable time before airport security after the flight.

Yes. If Nico had gone out of his car and started waving at Hamilton passing by to distract him, then it's dirty. If Nico went off on purpose, it's dirty. I highly doubt it was even on his mind that rejoining the track was going to impede anyone let alone illegal. It didn't even occur to me until I saw you guys complaining about it.

He apologized for trying to rejoin the track. It was definitely on his mind. And it definitely occurred to him if he asked where Lewis was before trying to rejoin.

All the drivers understand the importance of not impeding other drivers in qualifying. They hand out penalties at qualifying like candy. To say that Nico wasn't thinking about it is quite incorrect.

I don't see what's so inconceivable about discussing the possibility that it was intentional. Because the possibility is there. Samus and I noted it, though we already expressed the view that it was unlikely.

This is far from complaining. Though there are those here who did. On my end, I am trying, in a very objective manner, to discuss why Rosberg's actions were perhaps unwise.

I have no emotional investment over his possible guilt or innocence or whether his actions were dirty. What he did indeed gave him an unfair advantage, whether it was intentional or not... and it was completely legal.

 

[Akmuq]

Point proven. I shall just ignore you in future, because you're impossible to converse with.

I thought you only came here to argue?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I thought you only came here to argue?

How so considering he's followed F1 threads for a long time and usually BHR is the one that starts these things, but your comment seems to be a personal problem so never mind.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Uh. Exactly.

Not very good at detecting online sarcasm are you? This is the dawn of broadband all over again..

Why? Why is Nico beyond reproach? It's an unusual action, which he apologized for. It's worth discussing.

What's unusual about rejoining the track? You just said it's within his rights. It's not unusual at all, and not worth discussing.

If his attempt at rejoining the track impeded anybody, then yes it's worth discussing and probably a penalty. That wasn't the case though, was it?

I've already explained this. No reason to explain it again. Lewis and many other drivers have been penalized for these things in qualifying numerous times in the past. You do your utmost to avoid doing absolutely anything that can be construed as obstructing another driver in qualifying. If you aren't, then you're being stupid.

I still don't see how reversing, but not rejoining the track yet, impeded anybody. If he didn't impede anyone, there's no reason to get suspicious in the first place. You need to commit a crime first before we judge if it was intentional or not.

Your seatmate doesn't have the law on his side. If you make a joke about having a bomb on you... on the other hand... then yes, you can expect some uncomfortable time before airport security after the flight.

Joking about having a bomb is illegal and an awful thing to do on an airplane. Wanting to go back to the pits isn't.
Ignore this. It's becoming unnecessary.

He apologized for trying to rejoin the track. It was definitely on his mind. And it definitely occurred to him if he asked where Lewis was before trying to rejoin.

Did he get on the radio and ask where Lewis was before he started reversing? This isn't rhetorical I really want to know if he did and I missed it.

He apologized if his attempt at rejoining impeded anyone. It's like apologizing if a joke offended someone. Doesn't mean you intended on doing it.

All the drivers understand the importance of not impeding other drivers in qualifying. They hand out penalties at qualifying like candy. To say that Nico wasn't thinking about it is quite incorrect.

I'm all for questioning someone's hidden intent but you need to look at someone's history, the action and circumstances to do that. He could've been thinking about stabbing Hamilton when he woke up this morning, but we don't know that and it's silly to question it.

I don't see what's so inconceivable about discussing the possibility that it was intentional. Because the possibility is there. Samus and I noted it, though we already expressed the view that it was unlikely.

How can it be intentional if it didn't exist? He did NOT impede Hamilton by reversing. If he did impede anyone, then and only then do you we even begin to discuss his intention. This is the discussion here. Ignore all other points.

I thought you only came here to argue?

Wait, he's not out here to steal my job is he?


edit

To clear anything up, my initial responses to @LMSCorvetteGT2 and @Samus were me thinking they're talking about the mistake not reversing.

 

[Bo]

Just seen it on the BBC, conspiracy! It looked dodgy. Hamilton's interview spoke volumes. That's what i'll leave it at.

 

[Touring Mars]

uncalled for suspiciousness.

It was not uncalled for at all. It was suspicious, and the stewards were right to look into it.

 

[GTPorsche]

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/159869.html