2014 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix

[SVT Cobra GT]

Altering the rules to keep the cars in check is one thing - but the lap record at Sepang is 1'34.223 set by J P Montoya 10 years ago. Hamiltons fastest lap was 1'43.0

I hope that trend doesn't carry on, if it does, in the 2034 Malaysia Grand Prix they'll lap slower than a scooter.

 

[Dhalism]

Altering the rules to keep the cars in check is one thing - but the lap record at Sepang is 1'34.223 set by J P Montoya 10 years ago. Hamiltons fastest lap was 1'43.0

I very much doubt that the slow down has anything to do with the engines. Because there is A, Refueling so as long as there is a ban on that it's very doubtful anyone will match 2004 times anytime soon and B, the tires. Not only did they hold better, but i also would be very surprised if 2004 grooved tires weren't actually faster than modern pirelli slicks.

I mean two rival tire suppliers aiming for the best tire possible vs a single tire supplier who was asked to make their tires ****.

 

[HKS racer]

*anti-RB circlejerk intensifies*

Of course Red Bull are playing politics with the Fuel Flow issue. If you'd read the Flowgate-gate thread, you'd see where we're discussing this.

But to suggest they'd need to do anything besides tell Ricciardo to turn down the fuel flow due to some unspecified problem to slow him down (because he was like mad fast, yo, in the first race, due to having the possibly illegal fuel maps that Red Bull just happened to give him)... requires them to be petty enough to throw away millions in money just because they don't like Daniel's face.

Red Bull is just too annoyingly competent for that. You might be thinking about Ferrari.

Red Bull always try to gain the biggest advantage from their moves. Without wall-of-texting, I just say, "loose a battle today win the war tomorrow". They look at the big picture. They used M.Webber like a guinea pig for about 3 seasons. On chess game there are checkers you can sacrifice in order to win the match..

About Ferrari, well, we italian fans are massively dissapointed with LCDM for not getting rid of Domenicali. I will talk about that in another post, one day.

 

[Peter.]

I very much doubt that the slow down has anything to do with the engines. Because there is A, Refueling so as long as there is a ban on that it's very doubtful anyone will match 2004 times anytime soon and B, the tires. Not only did they hold better, but i also would be very surprised if 2004 grooved tires weren't actually faster than modern pirelli slicks.

I mean two rival tire suppliers aiming for the best tire possible vs a single tire supplier who was asked to make their tires ****.

Not to mention the ridiculous amounts of downforce those 2004 cars had with those massive rear wings and diffusers.

I don't have a problem with the cars never again reaching 2004 speeds, nor do I have a problem with the current sounds. I don't even hate the rules for making Mercedes dominant, because, as niky said, one team dominating after a big rule change is nothing new to Formula 1. But if these regulations mean that the drivers are going to be too worried about saving fuel to challenge anyone for track position after lap 5, then F1 and I are not going to get along very well.

 

[DK]

Red Bull always try to gain the biggest advantage from their moves. Without wall-of-texting, I just say, "loose a battle today win the war tomorrow". They look at the big picture. They used M.Webber like a guinea pig for about 3 seasons. On chess game there are checkers you can sacrifice in order to win the match..

Do you seriously believe RB are the only ones who do this? Perhaps RB are the most prominent example due to their recent success, but what's to say some of the teams in the middle of the field never did the same?

BTW, I'd recommend getting triple-glazing for that glass house of yours.

 

[MasamuneDate]

Don't mind the cars being slower?! Damn, this is F1! Back in 2004 there were no other racing category capable of matching F1's pace. Nowadays, if you put a F1 car against an Indy car, specialy on ovals, it will be likely be beaten by it.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Don't mind the cars being slower?! Damn, this is F1! Back in 2004 there were no other racing category capable of matching F1's pace. Nowadays, if you put a F1 car against an Indy car, specialy on ovals, it will be likely be beaten by it.

On most F1 tracks these cars will be much faster than anything else, an old F1 car would probably be beaten on an oval anyway. These things are only going to get faster and I like seeing the drivers wrestle the cars a bit.

I wouldn't be surprised if by next year we see them getting close to quali lap records on the high speed tracks.

 

[SilverArrow]

Don't mind the cars being slower?! Damn, this is F1! Back in 2004 there were no other racing category capable of matching F1's pace. Nowadays, if you put a F1 car against an Indy car, specialy on ovals, it will be likely be beaten by it.

The fastest speed in Malaysia qualifying 2004 was 310kph, the fastest in the race 2014 was 324kph. That suggests the V10s would be slower on an oval than these cars..

 

[Peter.]

Don't mind the cars being slower?! Damn, this is F1! Back in 2004 there were no other racing category capable of matching F1's pace. Nowadays, if you put a F1 car against an Indy car, specialy on ovals, it will be likely be beaten by it.

Poor example, because F1 cars would never have beaten the champ cars that used to race around those ovals back in the day. Nothing, then or now can beat an F1 car around an F1 circuit.

 

[Carlos]

Maybe they should allow ground effects..

 

[Dhalism]

Not to mention the ridiculous amounts of downforce those 2004 cars had with those massive rear wings and diffusers.

I don't have a problem with the cars never again reaching 2004 speeds, nor do I have a problem with the current sounds. I don't even hate the rules for making Mercedes dominant, because, as niky said, one team dominating after a big rule change is nothing new to Formula 1. But if these regulations mean that the drivers are going to be too worried about saving fuel to challenge anyone for track position after lap 5, then F1 and I are not going to get along very well.

So far it seems the tires are still the bottleneck. Rears went for Nico way before there was any fuel concern.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I hope that trend doesn't carry on, if it does, in the 2034 Malaysia Grand Prix they'll lap slower than a scooter.

You mean when cars had more power allowed no limit on the revs, refueling thus no limit on fuel either really, more engines allowed a year, and far more aero than they have now...

Don't mind the cars being slower?! Damn, this is F1! Back in 2004 there were no other racing category capable of matching F1's pace. Nowadays, if you put a F1 car against an Indy car, specialy on ovals, it will be likely be beaten by it.

That as asinine example and assumption, good try though. Actually not really.

 

[HKS racer]

Do you seriously believe RB are the only ones who do this? Perhaps RB are the most prominent example due to their recent success, but what's to say some of the teams in the middle of the field never did the same?

BTW, I'd recommend getting triple-glazing for that glass house of yours.

According to some people here the question seems to be "do you seriously believe RB did this?" My suspects are high. And "what's to say some of the teams in the middle of the field never did the same?" sounds way too generic for actually making a point.

 

[Bram Turismo]

The fastest speed in Malaysia qualifying 2004 was 310kph, the fastest in the race 2014 was 324kph. That suggests the V10s would be slower on an oval than these cars..

Didn't they reach nearly 360kph at Monza in the V10 era though? I'm guessing the 2004 cars could run so much more downforce which may explain the difference in topspeed.

Edit:

The race was perhaps best known for speed records set during the race. In the first part of qualifying (which did not count towards grid positions), Juan Pablo Montoya lapped Monza in his Williams FW26 at an average speed of 262.242 km/h (162.9 mph), the fastest ever qualifying lap in the history of Formula One. The next day in the race, Montoya's teammate Antônio Pizzonia reached a top speed of 369.9 km/h (229.9 mph), the fastest speed ever recorded in Formula One at the time (it was to be exceeded by Montoya in 2005).

Yeah, massive difference.

 

[SilverArrow]

Didn't they reach nearly 360kph at Monza in the V10 era though? I'm guessing the 2004 cars could run so much more downforce which may explain the difference in topspeed.

Edit:



Yeah, massive difference.

I was comparing the speeds from the same track, you can't compare the V10 in Monza to the V6 in Sepang. When they're at Monza, they should go faster than 360kph.

 

[sems4arsenal]

What if in a few years time when Formula one cars are as fast on a track as Le Mans prototypes we have MIXED RACING

Awwww yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

 

[Samus]

I don't understand a lot of the negativity shown towards modern F1, are people really that opposed to change? The cars are quieter, but have you actually listened to them? They sound much better in 2014 than the "swarm of bees attacking a jet engine", and you get to hear everything actually going on now.

Well that is a matter of opinion, yes you hear the tyres squealing now and there are more 'levels' to the sound but that doesn't mean we have to like them. They just sound too dull to me, too far the other way from the swarm of bees. Something in the middle, something with a little more urgency would be better.

The cars are slower over a single lap- yes, so? Downforce is much less than before so the drivers are having to drive the car much more. Wasn't that what we asked for when claiming F1 was too much about the car and not the drivers skill? The engineers could produce cars that smash all the lap records and nobody would care, because the racing would be processional once more. The road cars development would be stunted by Formula 1's dependence on aerodynamic gains, something very few consumer cars require beyond a drag efficient shape.

Yes we know why they're slower, but they've gone too far. Less downforce is good but somewhere they've gone too far. The racing still isn't any closer, cars are still sat in the wake of each other, just like the last 20 years.

Maybe I give Formula 1 too much credit, but I would rather we had silent cars lapping over 2 minutes but producing brilliant racing, over loud wasps running in order start - finish at 1 minute lap times.

Problem is right now we pretty much have neither. With the exception of Rosberg mugging Vettel at the start the only changes to order at the front were reliability/vehicle issues. Not down to racing.

 

[niky]

Red Bull always try to gain the biggest advantage from their moves. Without wall-of-texting, I just say, "loose a battle today win the war tomorrow". They look at the big picture. They used M.Webber like a guinea pig for about 3 seasons. On chess game there are checkers you can sacrifice in order to win the match..

So, remind me again, what big advantage there is in sabotaging your own car so that you are fined a few thousand Euros, so that you lose tens of thousands more in damage, and so that you lose championship points for two races? That's not playing chess. That's sacrificing half your officers for absolutely no tactical advantage.

Webber has always been Horner's favorite whipping horse. That much is true. But Red Bull never gave him cement shoes. They would happily move him over for Vettel if things were close. They would not make him roll over for their opponents. That kind of move doesn't make sense, not if you're trying to protect your Championship standing (worth millions per place lost in the Constructor's) and not if you're trying to prevent Vettel's opponents from scoring more points in the Driver's Championship.

Knowing Red Bull, if they want Ricciardo to finish behind Vettel, they would, in no uncertain terms, tell him straight to his face.

 

[Imari]

On chess game there are checkers you can sacrifice in order to win the match..

 

[NFSCARBON1]

What if in a few years time when Formula one cars are as fast on a track as Le Mans prototypes we have MIXED RACING

Awwww yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

I was thinking about this the other day. Modern F1 engines and gearboxes have to endure a very long period of use. Each weekend consists of.
4 hours free practice
45 mins Qualifying
2 hours (max) race.
So thats 6 hours 45 mins per weekend.
With 5 engines over roughly 20 races, thats 4 weekends for each engine.
So in theory each car should be able to run for 28 hours and 30 minutes, more than enough for an endurance race, which begs the question, would a current F1 be faster over a 24 hour race than an LMP?

Back on topic, I wonder how much the Mercedes cars are sandbagging at the moment? If they are using the lowest amount of fuel, I guess they aren't anywhere near the fuel flow limit, meaning there is still more performance to be had from their power unit.

 

[Samus]

Quite a lot, I'd imagine. They turned the engines down half way through the race and for Rosberg to pull out a gap it was as simple as being asked.

 

[sems4arsenal]

So April fools http://grandprix247.com/2014/04/01/...eir-own-f1-v6-turbo-engines-from-june-onward/

Nice try though

 

[Samus]

Heh, not very convincing. Most F1 fans know you can't develop an engine in six months, especially with no experience. Try harder next year!

 

[Peasantslayer]

There's always an article that gets me on April fools but when I saw that the engine was being introduced in June it seemed obvious that it was a lie.

 

[Dodzzz]

So April fools http://grandprix247.com/2014/04/01/...eir-own-f1-v6-turbo-engines-from-june-onward/

Nice try though

LOL.. what fuel they are gonna put in? an energy drink?

 

[Rich S]

Each car/driver weighs the same.

Each driver most certainly does not weight the same!! Weight has become a weighty issue this F1 season, unfortunately drivers such as Hülkenberg seem to have issues with this. Hamilton even mentioned loosing weight which is surprising considering he's a medium sized driver at 5 ft 9.

What if in a few years time when Formula one cars are as fast on a track as Le Mans prototypes we have MIXED RACING

Awwww yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Right now I believe the very fastest LMP1 cars of 2010 (Peugeot 908) could hold their own in a long race if the 2014 F1s could not refuel and were under their current regulations. The fastest Q laps do not represent what the current F1 cars can do at all because the DRS has become even stronger and they dont have that during the race hardly at all.

 

[HKS racer]

So, remind me again, what big advantage there is in sabotaging your own car so that you are fined a few thousand Euros, so that you lose tens of thousands more in damage, and so that you lose championship points for two races?

I guarantee you Matesichtz doesn't think in "few thousand Euros", he think in billion Euros.

That's sacrificing half your officers for absolutely no tactical advantage.

I respect your opinion but I beg to differ.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I was comparing the speeds from the same track, you can't compare the V10 in Monza to the V6 in Sepang. When they're at Monza, they should go faster than 360kph.

As far as I know, they topped out at 330-335 kph last year with DRS and KERS. I never was comparing the speeds from Monza to those at Sepang, no idea where you got that from.

 

[SilverArrow]

As far as I know, they topped out at 330-335 kph last year with DRS and KERS. I never was comparing the speeds from Monza to those at Sepang, no idea where you got that from.

When you said massive difference, I thought that's what you meant...

 

[Bram Turismo]

When you said massive difference, I thought that's what you meant...

It's what I meant when comparing the speeds achieved at Monza by the V10 and V8 cars.