2015 Subaru WRX & STi - WRX Wagon on the way?

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Am I the only one that likes the WRX better than the STi? Why the heck would anyone buy the STi? Just for 30 more horsepower?
 
Am I the only one that likes the WRX better than the STi? Why the heck would anyone buy the STi? Just for 30 more horsepower?
I think you might be one of the very few. I would buy an STi because, 30 more horsepower is a massive difference, the STi probably drives better than the WRX and in my opinion looks better.
 
Why? What's different about how it drives? It's probably harder... oooh big deal-- it's more uncomfortable.
 
Why? What's different about how it drives? It's probably harder... oooh big deal-- it's more uncomfortable.
To be honest I don't know, I haven't driven one, I only said it probably drove better. I've personally never liked the WRX, I don't really know why, maybe it's because I'm an STi purist or something. :p
 
Am I the only one that likes the WRX better than the STi? Why the heck would anyone buy the STi? Just for 30 more horsepower?
I currently own a 2005 RS and a 2004 WRX.

I am not sure how this 2015 WRX to 2015 STI compare but in the past, the STI had quite a few little gadgets here and there that the WRX did not. Internal adjustable headlights, adjustable diff, heated mirrors, more hp, better stereo, more speakers, better trans, better suspsension, better ground effects, extra fog lights, and many more goodies I cant remember.

What surprises me the most is the lack of hp increase. You would think for sure they would add at least another 40-50 hp to the STI. I am shocked it is running the same hp as the previous STI's. THAT is the most disappointing to me. Most sports cars increase hp each year. Strange decision to keep the same hp. It is nice to see the wrx finally with a 6 speed, but such a bummer the lack of hp increase.
 
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Speaking with regards to the previous generation.
The STI definitely had better suspension, and transmission. Combined with standard features like the BBS wheels (some of us actually replace stock wheels but the BBS were so nice I actually kept them), and more durable Brembo brakes, it's just matter of what you place value on...

Between the much better transmission, suspension, wheels, and brakes I felt the STI was worthy of the extra 7.5K.

That said, I bought a Hatch with barely any options for 37.5k in 2011 while most of the hatch WRX were in limited or premium trim for something between 29.5 and 30.5.

On this new generation though... :indiff:
The WRX suspension has been refined, transmission upgraded, and the DIT 2.0... I see no reason to buy a 2015 STI over a 2015 WRX unless the difference is less than 3k.

Now in the mid-generation refresh I expect to see a DIT engine go into the STI and that could change the situation dramatically. Until then I feel like the STI for 2015 isn't nearly as much of an upgrade over the WRX as it was back in 2011.
 
Rendering of the '15 WRX STI coupe….....
I want one :drool:
2015-Subaru-WRX-STI-Coupe-%252523%25255B3%25255D.jpg
The stupid quarter windows in the front (and in the back for the sedan) are what makes the car feel cheap. They are seriously a let down styling wise. The first and second generation Imprezas had windowless frames, which is way better for looks for me. The third generation gained the frames, but at least the windows aren't divided like this generation's.

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Thoughts?
 
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I so want to like this car. It looks great, contrary to what many people may say. But what irks me is the fact the MPG's are the same..something special could have resulted from this car, and I don't doubt that it should drive awesome, but having a smaller fuel tank and sucking as much gas as the current gen STi is just strange.

Granted, during the morning there is usually some traffic and my MPG's in my 13 WRX are horrid, but coming back home from work I take this beautiful rural route where I can get up to 27 mpg, going at 40mph for about 20 mins through sweeping bends, uphill, downhill, slight bend after bend is really fun, due to the small amount of traffic at that hour. The WRX really is a great car through here and I can imagine an STi would be even more fun.

It goes without saying is the fact that these cars are awesome in the snow. And with the STi's diff's compared to the open diff in the WRX it should be even better. I slapped a pair of Blizzak LS-60's on my car and the car is pretty much a snowmobile. Obviously you wouldn't want to drive like a maniac and no AWD does not give you super human powers, but I have never driven a more "sure-footed" vehicle in my life.

I don't know. I'll probably just have to drive one then decide.

My route home:



 
PSA:
Any car is a snow-mobile with half-decent winter rubber, in that you'd be doing circles around people on A/S rubber. That said, I'd recommend you keep your VDC on at all times on the snowy road (unless playing on some parking lot). WRX center diff takes time to warm up/lock (and once it does - it's not easy to do donuts), and before that you basically have an open center diff, and understeer can turn into wild oversteer in an instant. I'd say that the WRX/any non-STI MT Subie w/o at least rear locking diff is the worst Subaru AWDs for snow predictability, so don't get overconfident.


Saw the new STI in person at the Detroit show the other day. It looks fine. If there was a hatch I'd take it despite the same engine.
 
PSA:
Any car is a snow-mobile with half-decent winter rubber, in that you'd be doing circles around people on A/S rubber.
I would not say "ANY" car is a snow mobile. There is a MASSIVE difference in the snow in an AWD car compared to a RWD or FWD. The AWD is going to win every time. Especially if it has a full set of snow tires.

Seriously these AWD cars are already amazing in the snow, but you put on winter tires and they are insane. Basically little mini offroad trucks in the shape of a car.
 
I'm kind of wondering how long Subaru can ride this train without any innovation. How long now have they had the exact same engine with the exact same power? And yet it's been getting bigger every generation. I really expected a reasonable power jump this time around, especially considering how easily this engine can make more power, but we get nothing.

I like the car, just...there's not much new about it.
 
I would not say "ANY" car is a snow mobile. There is a MASSIVE difference in the snow in an AWD car compared to a RWD or FWD.
Getting going - sure AWD helps. After that, I'd take a BRZ on snow tires over WRX on the same snow tires. RWD/FWD with a locking diff on the drive axle is 100% more predictable in its behavior than the AWD in a WRX with VDC disabled. WRX can transition from plowing like a FWD to the rear end coming around in an instant cause until there is a significant amount and duration of slipping the viscous coupling in the center diff just doesn't lock and the diff is completely open.

It's not too relevant for driving in traffic, since everyone is going at the speed some scared housewife is doing on A/S tires on her minivan, but it's true.
 
I'm kind of wondering how long Subaru can ride this train without any innovation. How long now have they had the exact same engine with the exact same power? And yet it's been getting bigger every generation. I really expected a reasonable power jump this time around, especially considering how easily this engine can make more power, but we get nothing.

I like the car, just...there's not much new about it.
Heeeey, there was 12hp power bump in 08....
Innovation is expensive. I doubt they will give these cars significant power bump any time soon.
 
Getting going - sure AWD helps. After that, I'd take a BRZ on snow tires over WRX on the same snow tires. RWD/FWD with a locking diff on the drive axle is 100% more predictable in its behavior than the AWD in a WRX with VDC disabled. WRX can transition from plowing like a FWD to the rear end coming around in an instant cause until there is a significant amount and duration of slipping the viscous coupling in the center diff just doesn't lock and the diff is completely open.

It's not too relevant for driving in traffic, since everyone is going at the speed some scared housewife is doing on A/S tires on her minivan, but it's true.
You can argue until you are blue in the face but an AWD car in deep snow or offroad is always going to be better than a FWD or RWD even if those cars have full spools. This is obviously if the cars around the same ride height.

I have been driving for 20+ years in snow and offroad. I have owned FWD, RWD, and AWD. An AWD is always going to win in extreme snow or offroad. I think you are the only person I have ever seen try to argue that fact. Have you ever actually even driven offroad or really deep snow? Watch how fast a FWD or RWD gets stuck compared to a proper AWD if they are around the same ride height.

Perfect example. If you have 3 Subaru Imprea's. All same ride height all same tires. One you leave AWD, the other you make FWD, and the last one RWD. Take all 3 cars same ride height offroad or into the deep snow and the AWD will ALWAYS win. 4 tires spinning offroad is always better than 2.
 
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Whatever dude, if you go deep into snow - you need ground clearance, a winch, and a phone to call a tow truck. I'm talking about regular driving on slick roads and how people with basic AWD think they are invincible and end up in the ditch. Like I said, Subaru AWD will help you get going, that's it, it doesn't help you a corner, barely helps you stop. In low-grip cornering Subaru AWD that's in the WRX is dangerous and unpredictable, it should be driven slower in the same corner than a FWD/RWD car _with LSD_ and the same tires, due to unpredictability.
Keep your VDC on.
 
Am I the only one that likes the WRX better than the STi? Why the heck would anyone buy the STi? Just for 30 more horsepower?
Entire drivetrain is worlds above WRX. Suspension components are likely improved like last gen.
That's about it. Oh, being superior to WRX owners in every possible way is also a bonus when getting an STI.
I would not spend the extra money simply because of how seldom I'd get to feel the difference. Gears in the STI are also too short for daily driving in my opinion. This time the WRX gets rid of the junky EJ as well.
 
Heeeey, there was 12hp power bump in 08....
Innovation is expensive. I doubt they will give these cars significant power bump any time soon.
No it's not. They could buy a tuner from COBB and use it on all the cars coming down the line and boom 30 more horses. It's not hard at all, they just don't care because they don't have to care because they're Subaru and Mitsubishi hardly exists anymore. The STi has no direct competition in the US.
 
Correction: STI hatch did not have a direct competition other than the under-powered last-gen Golf R. Now that it's sedan-only, it's up against CLA45 AMG and S3. True, those cost more, but still...
And the new Golf R hatch is the only game in town with a liftgate. Somewhat retardedly, the R was locked yesterday at the show, so I have no comments on it.

I have my own opinion of COBB, but let's just say they don't have to worry about warranty and fuel economy. Current STI was just one MPG away from being subject to the gas-guzzler tax. With current DI motors COBB will have a steep learning curve. We'll see how that turns out, FXT came out long time ago and they still have nothing for it.

I somewhat agree though, it could be done with an aggressive tune, I think the 'solution' could end up discontinuing STI as a standalone model and selling it as a quasi-aftermarket upgrade by the in-house tuning arm (STI of an STI so to speak) with some form of factory backing so that it doesn't screw with CAFE averages. Otherwise I don't see much in terms of power bumps, unless Subaru goes to back to WRC or smth.
 
Correction: STI hatch did not have a direct competition other than the under-powered last-gen Golf R. Now that it's sedan-only, it's up against CLA45 AMG and S3. True, those cost more, but still...
And the new Golf R hatch is the only game in town with a liftgate. Somewhat retardedly, the R was locked yesterday at the show, so I have no comments on it.
I'm talking market competition, not magazine comparo competition. They're two vastly different things. I think it's safe to say that not many buyers will cross-shop an STi with a CLA45, S3, or TT. The Golf R will receive a lot more traffic and we know this because we already know the demographic that buys Golf Rs and STis.
 
I'm talking market competition, not magazine comparo competition. They're two vastly different things. I think it's safe to say that not many buyers will cross-shop an STi with a CLA45, S3, or TT. The Golf R will receive a lot more traffic and we know this because we already know the demographic that buys Golf Rs and STis.
Hatch had a niche. Sedan is a lot less utilitarian and will be against all those I named + RWD coupes.
 
I think this car looks fantastic, easily the best looking one since they brought the car to America in my opinion. Hopefully I'll be able to own one in the fairly near future.
 
Its the rival to the Evo X that should of been, not that hatchback which they back tracked to a saloon 3 years later.
 
You can argue until you are blue in the face but an AWD car in deep snow or offroad is always going to be better than a FWD or RWD even if those cars have full spools. This is obviously if the cars around the same ride height.

I have been driving for 20+ years in snow and offroad. I have owned FWD, RWD, and AWD. An AWD is always going to win in extreme snow or offroad. I think you are the only person I have ever seen try to argue that fact. Have you ever actually even driven offroad or really deep snow? Watch how fast a FWD or RWD gets stuck compared to a proper AWD if they are around the same ride height.

I've been driving over a decade and have driven AWD, RWD (FR and MR) and FWD in snow for all those years. The only merit to AWD over the other drive trains is getting moving in snow. It doesn't help with stopping, and it sure as hell is less predictable when traction starts to go. Yes, modern Subaru's have more electronic controls to help manage it, but predicting what tires and thus what end of the car wanted to slide in every AWD car I've driven has always been tricky business. Especially when compared to a RWD or FWD car with a locking diff setup.

In anything besides 6 inches or more of snow, you won't notice the difference outside of accelerating from a stop. Not sure why you are so caught up talking about offroad when the majority of Subaru owners don't even leave pavement, let alone intentionally drive off into deep snow.

And I'm sure a RWD car with snow tires will, literally, run circles around an AWD car on all-seasons. I hated driving Subarus in the winter months because the owners never bother with snow tires because "AWD is all you need."
 
The basic viscous AWD in my Legacy (open rear diff) strikes a rather tame median between the entertaining yet somewhat unavoidable oversteer of my old BMW and the sometimes alarming helplessness of a FWD. It doesn't do anything I didn't ask it to do, and it does basically anything I request. I'm not sure how it's so unpredictable -- if you're mostly pointed straight, excess throttle will result in understeer; if you want rotation, lift-off oversteer is key, unless you crank the wheel from a low speed.

Coming from daily-driving a RWD for years, it took some time to learn the importance of lift-off oversteer, and drifting isn't as simple or freely possible (more speed is required, for one thing), but "dangerous and unpredictable" is completely backwards to how I would describe it. My BMW required a certain minimum of attentiveness at every turn, and I feel uncomfortable driving a FWD in snow. Not to sound like the cliché Subaru owner, but the Legacy just goes.

And no, I don't run winter tires; soon after I got the car I gave it the same class of Pirelli all seasons my BMW originally wore (which performed significantly better in snow than the Yokohamas it had later). With a good set of all seasons a little care and foresight is "all you need," whatever the drivetrain. But I could understand being frustrated with the lower limits if you're accustomed to snow tires.

I'm not one who thinks AWD is invincible or all-capable, but it meets my expectations. It lends a distinct advantage in property assessing, clawing around soggy farmyards, and over unplowed rural drives and access trails. On cruddy days homeowners will often ask how I managed to make it up the driveway.
 
@Wolfe - Snow tires become increasingly more relevant when you have frequent hills and mountains to contend with. Wisconsin is effectively flat and while all seasons will cut it to some extent, they basically fail for starting and stopping on hills with decent grade and snow/ice.

As for predictable behavior, I don't believe I said dangerous, but in situations where you suddenly find yourself in excess of the limits (black ice, ice under snow, ice because of elevation change on pass) it is less than intuitive to many.
 
To be honest I don't know, I haven't driven one, I only said it probably drove better. I've personally never liked the WRX, I don't really know why, maybe it's because I'm an STi purist or something. :p

In comparison between the GE/GH WRX and STis, there's a bee's proverbial of difference between the two of them. You barely notice the extra power, and both have relatively rubbish brakes although the STi stops a little harder.

For that previous generation, I have seen next to no point in buying an STi brand new when the WRX, on the road, delivers 98% of the thrills for, here anyway, $10k less. For sure the styling of the WRX isn't as aggressive but that's why you get a Club Spec or the RS40 like what I drove a couple months ago, which has the STi-spec kits:


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by Murcie_LP640, on Flickr

The one major difference I've seen is the STi's adjustable centre diff, which honestly again makes very little difference on the road.
 
^Disagreed.
Previous-gen WRX had a junk tranny with a terrible shifter that even aftermarket rods/bushings didn't fix, killing 98% of enjoyment. Suspension on an STi was also much better. WRX had a ton of body roll for a 'performance' hatch.
Center diff in an STi makes the car feel quite different on the street too, even if not pushing.
 
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