2015 Subaru WRX & STi - WRX Wagon on the way?

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The 5-speed in the car I posted above felt excellent. STi 6-speed has better shift quality but it isn't night and day. Both suffer from body roll, again not night and day difference, and STi's center diff only allows the car to understeer slightly less.

Performance wise, it is not worth the price hike over a WRX and back to back it's incredibly eerie how similar they are. It's only truly worth the extra if you're throwing a lot of mods onto it in which case the stronger gearbox will handle the power better. Otherwise, WRX with a stiffer rear sway and a tune will still undercut the STi considerably and outpace it.
 
Azuremen
@Wolfe - Snow tires become increasingly more relevant when you have frequent hills and mountains to contend with. Wisconsin is effectively flat and while all seasons will cut it to some extent, they basically fail for starting and stopping on hills with decent grade and snow/ice.
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No doubt that's true as a general rule. I certainly wouldn't trust just any all season tire out there -- there's quite a range of performance in the category -- and snow tires would absolutely perform better, but I live in the corner of the state that is anything but flat and the Pirellis have proven themselves in just about any reasonable circumstance apart from smooth ice and off-road snow that's too deep for my limited ride height. One of the novelties of switching from RWD to AWD was to stop halfway up an icy hill and continue on, just because I could. :D

Good all season tires are a different story in terms of winter traction compared to not-so-good all season tires. The Yokohamas I put on my old E30 opened my eyes to that fact. My point isn't that snow tires are superfluous, just that my positive experience with AWD hasn't included them.
Azuremen
As for predictable behavior, I don't believe I said dangerous, but in situations where you suddenly find yourself in excess of the limits (black ice, ice under snow, ice because of elevation change on pass) it is less than intuitive to many.
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It was dsgerbc who said it was dangerous.
 
Wolfe
No doubt that's true as a general rule. I certainly wouldn't trust just any all season tire out there -- there's quite a range of performance in the category -- and snow tires would absolutely perform better, but I live in the corner of the state that is anything but flat and the Pirellis have proven themselves in just about any reasonable circumstance apart from smooth ice and off-road snow that's too deep for my limited ride height. One of the novelties of switching from RWD to AWD was to stop halfway up an icy hill and continue on, just because I could. :D
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With a range of about 1100 feet (600 ~ 1700 feet), that is still relatively flat compared to here - local mountains are around 5000 feet and the Spokane Valley is around 2000 feet. The "mountains" in the Midwest are basically hills when compared to the Pacific Northwest. A couple of drives I use to do would drop 1500 to 2000 feet in a couple miles, such as in this photo, with the town being at around 800 feet and me standing at around 2200 feet. We just have more extreme terrain :p

Not to say I don't appreciate the ease in which an AWD car can start on a grade in snow.

Wolfe
Good all season tires are a different story in terms of winter traction compared to not-so-good all season tires. The Yokohamas I put on my old E30 opened my eyes to that fact. My point isn't that snow tires are superfluous, just that my positive experience with AWD hasn't included them.
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Won't disagree with you there.

eSZee
It's like a summer day vs a winter night sort of thing.
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Also this.
 
Wolfe
It was dsgerbc who said it was dangerous.
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The moment of enlightenment comes when you hit the ice.

It is also when you realize that A/S tires suck. Decent&recent A/S rubber, when new, isn't too bad on fluffy snow, relative to winter tires. It's the ice grip, that gonna be 50-100% better on a good winter (studless) rubber.
 
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Keef
No it's not. They could buy a tuner from COBB and use it on all the cars coming down the line and boom 30 more horses. It's not hard at all, they just don't care because they don't have to care because they're Subaru and Mitsubishi hardly exists anymore. The STi has no direct competition in the US.
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Build Quality, fuel consumption and reliability > power.
 
@dsgerbc -- Yeah, because there's no ice in Wisconsin. :rolleyes: IDGAF what you surmise about my experience on ice with the tires I run.

Winter tires are better. That wasn't the point in question. The question is whether the handling dynamics of AWD are unfathomable. A drivetrain is a drivetrain. It understeers in one case, it oversteers in another. If you end up with something you didn't expect, you either lack experience or weren't paying attention. The latter can happen to anyone but that doesn't make it unpredictable.
 
Wolfe
@dsgerbc -- Yeah, because there's no ice in Wisconsin. :rolleyes: IDGAF what you surmise about my experience on ice with the tires I run.

Winter tires are better. That wasn't the point in question. The question is whether the handling dynamics of AWD are unfathomable. A drivetrain is a drivetrain. It understeers in one case, it oversteers in another. If you end up with something you didn't expect, you either lack experience or weren't paying attention. The latter can happen to anyone but that doesn't make it unpredictable.
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Lol, and the wheel is a wheel.
I advise you to attend a least a couple of ice driving events and then come back and talk, otherwise it's pretty pointless.
Or at least read up on what an open center diff (cause that's what 5MT Subies have until it's too late) would do in case of a loss of traction on one axis, and how it would then react to changes in grip. My advice to you, if you find yourself sliding with other cars nearby, depress the clutch and step on the brake, don't try to save it.
 
Thanks for your patronizing concern. I'm not going to sit here and argue all about me, what I do and don't know, have and haven't experienced. :rolleyes:
 
Johnny Lieberman... miss the days when he was on Jalop and TTAC. Good catch for MotorTrend.

That video just reminds me of how much I want a Focus ST... crappy seats, wiggly arse and all.
 
dsgerbc
Surprised at how slow it is to 60. Hopefully it's a Limited trim with extra junk thrown in.

ST is fun, wish it had a front LSD. And I hope they fix the torquesteer for the upcoming RS.

I agree with the censored concluding remark. And holy 🤬 , they let them jump those...
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I bet they didn't know until the rest of us did. :lol:
 
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R1600Turbo
I bet they didn't know until the rest of us did. :lol:
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Subaru: No
Motor Trend: Please, we really need to review the STI for our fans.
Subaru: No
Motor Trend: We promise! All four wheels will be on the ground next time.
Subaru: いいえ。
Motor Trend: ...it wasn't even a big scratch. Fine, your car is fat anyway.
 
Extremely surprised they liked the steering and driving feel so much. The previous gen was typical subaru crap to drive.
Really excited to drive it now.
 
niky
Johnny Lieberman... miss the days when he was on Jalop and TTAC. Good catch for MotorTrend.

That video just reminds me of how much I want a Focus ST... crappy seats, wiggly arse and all.
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He's a terrible driver.
 
Don't need to be a great driver to be a motoring journalist. ref: Clarkson.May.
 
James May, I'll give you that, but there's a reason he doesn't pretend to drive fast and go on about how amazing a car's handling is. Clarkson can drift pretty well and does it as often as possible, in contrast to Lieberman who leaves the stability control on a front-drive car because he "doesn't trust it". What's it going to do, take flight at a moment's notice? It handles somewhat like a front-driver should so if you've got a problem with that you've been doing it all wrong. You should turning the controls on this car off to understand how it's supposed to work, then start criticizing every other car for being miserable.
 
niky
Don't need to be a great driver to be a motoring journalist. ref: Clarkson.May.
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May.......no, Clarkson...... No, may is a road tester all about quality and ride which is aimed at the masses. Clarkson and hamond are the ones that gets to drive the most expensive and rare cars around. Already done the Hauyra, P1 and Agera R. Its also to do with insurance aswell. They may talk alot but can still drive.
 
LOL @ Top Gear drivers being good drivers.
There is a reason they have the Stig and Motor Trend has Pobst where 5th Gear just has presenters much the way Best Motoring did with their presenters.

LOL @ Clarkson being a good drifter.
There's a reason every drift he makes is around an enormous turn on an airstrip and when the drifting challenges come into play they have the stig around (see RS4 v. C63 v. M3).

Finally,
LOL @ "Crap to Drive" regarding the handling of the previous generation WRX STI.
No even going to go there, just a simple LOL. :rolleyes:
 
Keef
in contrast to Lieberman who leaves the stability control on a front-drive car because he "doesn't trust it". What's it going to do, take flight at a moment's notice? It handles somewhat like a front-driver should so if you've got a problem with that you've been doing it all wrong. You should turning the controls on this car off to understand how it's supposed to work, then start criticizing every other car for being miserable.
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On a racetrack, maybe. On public roads with someone else's car when driving at full blat and jumping two feet in the air? Uh... maybe not. He did say it was fun, and such a car would be at 8/10ths. But at 10/10ths, you want something more stable and predictable, which is what I believe he was getting at.
 
Kent
LOL @ Top Gear drivers being good drivers.
There is a reason they have the Stig and Motor Trend has Pobst where 5th Gear just has presenters much the way Best Motoring did with their presenters.

LOL @ Clarkson being a good drifter.
There's a reason every drift he makes is around an enormous turn on an airstrip and when the drifting challenges come into play they have the stig around
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I'm willing to bet that the Top gear presenters are better than your average driver though, after all they do drive cars for a living.
 
Ryanswannell
I'm willing to bet that the Top gear presenters are better than your average driver though, after all they do drive cars for a living.
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Better than average, yeah, maybe.
However, I wouldn't say they drive for a living... Rather, they talk about cars for a living. :sly:
 
Kent
Better than average, yeah, maybe.
However, I wouldn't say they drive for a living... Rather, they talk about cars for a living. :sly:
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Ok, fair enough I suppose.
I like Top gear as an entertainment show, but their car reviews can be a bit strange. I realize it isn't really meant for consumer advice, but I don't like the way they praise cars for being unreliable. They love Alfas and Lancias because of this, because they say their unreliability makes them exciting, but Jeremy doesn't like the McLaren MP-12C because it won't break. I bet the Mclaren is just as exciting as any car when racing it around a track.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of Alfas look stunning but I'm sure I would hate to have one that wouldn't work.
 
Ryanswannell
Ok, fair enough I suppose.
I like Top gear as an entertainment show, but their car reviews can be a bit strange. I realize it isn't really meant for consumer advice, but I don't like the way they praise cars for being unreliable. They love Alfas and Lancias because of this, because they say their unreliability makes them exciting, but Jeremy doesn't like the McLaren MP-12C because it won't break. I bet the Mclaren is just as exciting as any car when racing it around a track.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of Alfas look stunning but I'm sure I would hate to have one that wouldn't work.
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They like Alfa for that unique and pretty designs where its form over function. And lancias because there different, WRC history makers and all out lunatics. I agree as old and new alfas are extremely pretty (spider, sz, 8c and new 4c) and lancias like fulvia, stratos, 037 and delta are brilliant and unique cars.
 
When will Subaru bring something like this back? (the 22b ;))

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I loved the sound, the colour, the gold alloys and the massive rear spoiler on it growing up :drool:
 

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