2016/17 Premier League & General Football Discussion

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I don't understand your logic of comparing Lukaku to players like Griezmann, Bale and Kroos.

Lets not forgot, Lukaku has so much experience for his age. He is a complete striker with combine attributes of strength, pace and height and it is hard to find in this day and age of football and aren't you forgetting he plays for a mid table team which hinders his record against the top 4. Funny how you mention Bale when he has been absolutely terrible this season and become a liability for Real hence why Isco has stepped up since his move from Malaga from about 3 seasons ago and for Griezmann he hasn't had the best of seasons where if Man Utd was to buy him it would be a more riskier buy as he has no experience outside of the La Liga.
Any player is a risk, but it is my opinion that Lukaku is over hyped. Good, yes, world class, no. Bale and Griezmann have had poor seasons for them, but there's a reason they're considered word class outside of La Liga. I don't think many people would call either of those players more of a risk than spending similar money (£60 million+) on Lukaku.

Do all United fans believe that they should have a divine right to world class players despite being unable to get into the Champions League?
No, not a divine right at all. However it's a fact that United are one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world. The biggest clubs should be able to attract the biggest players, that's just logical and it's what we should be aiming for. Besides I never said we should be able to attract those players without Champions League football, we're yet to find out if we will have that or not. If we get it, then I expect us to make a big signing or two.
 
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Any player is a risk, but it is my opinion that Lukaku is over hyped.
How exactly is he over-hyped? He is gonna be in the PL Team of the season for two seasons running at the age of 24 and most likely top scorer for this season while playing for a 7th place team and just imagine how good he will be when he has reached his peak while even playing for a top 4 team supposedly.

Where do you get this sum of £60 million? That sum is a bargain these days for somebody of Lukaku's caliber in my opinion and honestly do you really think you going to get Bale for that much when Real had spent in the region of £85 mill only three seasons ago not considering the booming inflation of players since.
 
How exactly is he over-hyped? He is gonna be in the PL Team of the season for two seasons running at the age of 24 and most likely top scorer for this season while playing for a 7th place team and just imagine how good he will be when he has reached his peak while even playing for a top 4 team supposedly.

Where do you get this sum of £60 million? That sum is a bargain these days for somebody of Lukaku's caliber in my opinion and honestly do you really think you going to get Bale for that much when Real had spent in the region of £85 mill only three seasons ago not considering the booming inflation of players since.
Because he did nothing when he was at Chelsea (albeit that was a few years) and he continues to do nothing against the top clubs. It's easy to look at the stats and say he's done great, and yes he has, but football is more than just stats. I watch a fair few games and he's in and out of games, he wants the ball to his feet all the time, he's not a particularly mobile player. I could be wrong about him, but from watching him play against the better teams a number of times I'm yet to be convinced he's world class.

As for getting Bale for £60 million, I never said we would did I. I clearly typed £60 million + as that is where Lukaku will be in price wise, that's wheret the prices for him have been that he's been touted for over the last few months. Bale will more than likely cost over £60 million too should he leave Real Madrid, so I don't see how there is anything incorrect in that assessment.

Look, I'm not a huge fan of Lukaku, you obviousely are. No number of statistics anyone can throw at me will change my opinion when what I've actually seen has not impressed me much. If Lukaku starts playing better against better teams, not winning the matches, because that depends on the whole team, but having a noticable impact on the game, causing the other temas trouble, then I might change my mind. But I think I've seen him play well against City once and they were poor that day. There's nothing wrong with you rating him as highly as you do and there's nothing wrong with me not rating him as highly as you do, we're obviousely noticing different things about him than I am and what I want to see in a striker at Old Trafford doesn't tally with what I've seen from Lukaku. That's why I think he's overrated and I wouldn't want United to spend £60 Million + on him. If we did, I'd love to be wrong about him, but he's not convinced me enough in the big games yet.

Statistically Benteke was a fantastic striker before he went to Liverpool. And that's my point, statistically Lukaku is great, but football is so much more that statistics. I'm happy for you to not agree, debating teams, formations and players wouldn't be possible if we all did.
 
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Final day of the season on Sunday, but before that there's this.

Tuesday
Arsenal v Sunderland (7.45 Sky)
Man City v West Brom

Wednesday
Southampton v Man United (7.45 Sky)

Thursday
Leicester v Tottenham (7.45 Sky)
 
Well Jose said that the Premier League is 'just a bunch of game we don't want to play right now', so yeah....
 
I turned off after Kane scored yesterday, only found out the final score last night, don't intend to watch Wednesday night, if they cant be bothered then I cant be bothered to watch them....
 
I don't get why Jose says we don't care for these games then plays a reasonably full squad just to roll over and play possum to Arsenal and Tottenham. Just play the youth players if need be.
 
Because he did nothing when he was at Chelsea (albeit that was a few years) and he continues to do nothing against the top clubs. It's easy to look at the stats and say he's done great, and yes he has, but football is more than just stats. I watch a fair few games and he's in and out of games, he wants the ball to his feet all the time, he's not a particularly mobile player. I could be wrong about him, but from watching him play against the better teams a number of times I'm yet to be convinced he's world class.
He didn't even get a fair shout at Chelsea due to Mounrinho's ignorance. And so in his proper 'debut' season, he gets loaned out to a poor West Brom side at the time scoring 17 goals and grabbing 7 assists and featuring in Team of the season and the rest is history at Everton. What do you exactly what from him to become World Class because I bet you cannot find another striker on the same level as him who plays for a mediocre team. Do you remember when De Bruyne, Salah, Cuadrado and Schurrle couldn't do anything Chelsea and look at them now.

Look, I'm not a huge fan of Lukaku, you obviousely are. No number of statistics anyone can throw at me will change my opinion when what I've actually seen has not impressed me much. If Lukaku starts playing better against better teams, not winning the matches, because that depends on the whole team, but having a noticable impact on the game, causing the other temas trouble, then I might change my mind.
Well statistics mean everything when you are striker and it doesn't take a footballing genius to know. A striker should have one job and that is consistently scoring goals in which Lukaku has done for the past 4 seasons and Man Utd fans complain how they are not consistent and not scoring enough goals then wanting a winger who is injury prone over a younger in form striker who has raw experience in the Premiership is very much bizarre.

As for getting Bale for £60 million, I never said we would did I. I clearly typed £60 million + as that is where Lukaku will be in price wise, that's wheret the prices for him have been that he's been touted for over the last few months. Bale will more than likely cost over £60 million too should he leave Real Madrid, so I don't see how there is anything incorrect in that assessment.
By any chance you have watched Bale before? Both are completely different players nor they play in the same position. That will answer why your comparison between both of them players shouldn't be brought up.
 
I turned off after Kane scored yesterday, only found out the final score last night, don't intend to watch Wednesday night, if they cant be bothered then I cant be bothered to watch them....

I hope, and this one is because I absolutely loathe Jose "the special one", that after him failing in the league, that Man U gets the biggest pummelling of the season against Ajax.
 
He didn't even get a fair shout at Chelsea due to Mounrinho's ignorance. And so in his proper 'debut' season, he gets loaned out to a poor West Brom side at the time scoring 17 goals and grabbing 7 assists and featuring in Team of the season and the rest is history at Everton. What do you exactly what from him to become World Class because I bet you cannot find another striker on the same level as him who plays for a mediocre team. Do you remember when De Bruyne, Salah, Cuadrado and Schurrle couldn't do anything Chelsea and look at them now.
As I said, I could be wrong about him, but what I would like to see him do is actually play well more often against top teams. I'm not in any way saying Lukaku is a bad player, but I just don't think he's top drawer and I don't think he's the right player for United for the way we play.

Well statistics mean everything when you are striker and it doesn't take a footballing genius to know. A striker should have one job and that is consistently scoring goals in which Lukaku has done for the past 4 seasons and Man Utd fans complain how they are not consistent and not scoring enough goals then wanting a winger who is injury prone over a younger in form striker who has raw experience in the Premiership is very much bizarre.
No they don't, remember when Berbatov won the golden boot and was United highest scorer for the season in 2010/11? Statistically he had an great season, but he didn't really, he scored 11 of his 20 goals in the PL that season in just 3 games and the one big game he made a proper impact in was against Liverpool. He was a good player, but didn't fit at United and no matter how much as I wanted him to, he just didn't. So no, statiscs aren't the be all and end all, a player that scores the winning goal in 10 games in a season and finishes the season with 10 goals is arguably far more useful than a player that scores 4 hattricks and finishes with 12 goals, even though statistically he's not as good. Once again, Benteke, statistically great, until Liverpool signed him.

By any chance you have watched Bale before? Both are completely different players nor they play in the same position. That will answer why your comparison between both of them players shouldn't be brought up.
Yes, and I'm well aware they're very different, that's kind of the point. Bale plays anywhere across the three attacking positions but usually comes in from wide. I also mentioned Griezmann as well, to get those two would be a dream, but a dream is probably all it is. I think we'll get Griezmann if we win the Europa League though, I certainly hopw we do anyway. Bale and Griezmann are both very mobile, tricky players with a lot of pace and they also know where the back of the net is. They're different to Lukaku, they've both performed well in plenty of big games even if 16/17 hasn't been the best season for either of them.

Saying Lukaku is just a good player is maybe harsh, I'll give you that, but I still don't want him at United. Like I've said in nearly every post in the discussion, he needs to play better more often against the top teams, playing for Everton is not an excuse not to do so, and besides all of that, I don't think he's the right fit for United.

We don't need someone to play upfront alone with his back to goal waiting for the ball to come to his feet, we need someone who will counter attack with blinding pace along with our wide players. We have very a fast attack with Martial, Rashford, Mhikitaryan etc. That brings me to the biggest critcism United fans have had with Zlatan, he slows it all down. That's why Griezmann would be a better fit, because he would just fit into the way we play and can play upfront, wide left, wide right or behind another striker. Griezmann would become interchangable with Rashford and Martial and to a lesser extent Mhikitaryna too, that would be hell to mark. Bale would be more of a luxuy but one I'd love to have. To have him running down the right with Rashford on the left and Griezmann in the middle would be amazing. I doubt that will happen though.
 
No they don't, remember when Berbatov won the golden boot and was United highest scorer for the season in 2010/11? Statistically he had an great season, but he didn't really, he scored 11 of his 20 goals in the PL that season in just 3 games and the one big game he made a proper impact in was against Liverpool. He was a good player, but didn't fit at United and no matter how much as I wanted him to, he just didn't. So no, statiscs aren't the be all and end all, a player that scores the winning goal in 10 games in a season and finishes the season with 10 goals is arguably far more useful than a player that scores 4 hattricks and finishes with 12 goals, even though statistically he's not as good. Once again, Benteke, statistically great, until Liverpool signed him.
Maybe I should put more emphasis on the consistency of Lukaku as you seem to ignore that fact.

We don't need someone to play upfront alone with his back to goal waiting for the ball to come to his feet, we need someone who will counter attack with blinding pace along with our wide players. We have very a fast attack with Martial, Rashford, Mhikitaryan etc.
Yes, you do. Your team is already saturated with pace and only one player who can hold up the play in the opponents third is Ibra hence why he is your top goal contributor by a large margin. Without a player like Ibra, you restrict your attacking options to only trying to get passes to attackers running behind the defensive line. But Ibra can provide height for set pieces, physicality to push the defenders around and allows more time for options in attack as he holds up play.

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Wonderful picture from Roma's win against Juve. Closing the gap to 4 points.
 
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@Famine

I went back and re-read our back and forth from the other day.

I would like to offer an apology.
I made an inaccurate statement which didn't convey the actual point I was trying to make.

More importantly I want to offer an apology for my consequent rude and abusive behaviour.

What I was actually trying to argue was that, if judged by the standard of an elite PL club the squad had many average, and some below average players.

In absolute terms the squad is not bang average.

Again, I'm sorry for my inexcusable behavior.
 
@Famine

I went back and re-read our back and forth from the other day.

I would like to offer an apology.
I made an inaccurate statement which didn't convey the actual point I was trying to make.

More importantly I want to offer an apology for my consequent rude and abusive behaviour.

What I was actually trying to argue was that, if judged by the standard of an elite PL club the squad had many average, and some below average players.

In absolute terms the squad is not bang average.

Again, I'm sorry for my inexcusable behavior.
You're simply a passionate fan. I understand that (to an extent - I support a club that is hard to get passionate about, because as soon as we do they play like crap).

I still don't necessarily agree with you though. I generally avoid the Premier League except where necessary (my fantasy league team, for example), but I think if you offered any incoming manager this matchday squad:
De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Shaw, Rojo, Carrick, Young, Rooney, Valencia, Martial, Depay; Valdes, Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Rashford

And then tell them they've got the money for Bailly, Mkhitaryan, Ibrahimovic and Pogba, they'd probably take your hand off. I don't rate Smalling at all, and Ashley Young's career has petered out somewhat from the days when he was the league's best diver, but that's a solid 16, with four of the world's best players coming into it.

I reckon Chelsea's squad is better and I reckon Manchester City's squad is better, but not Liverpool (sure, Coutinho, Lallana, Can and Mane are excellent, but the matchday 16 is worse), not Arsenal (again, Sanchez is world class, Ozil and Walcott are good when they can be bothered, but the matchday 16 is ropey, even when fit) and definitely not Everton.


Still, Leicester City won the title last year with a distinctly average to below average squad, plus N'Golo Kante. And then their manager was sacked, and afterwards they got to the Champions' League quarter finals, so it doesn't seem to have been down to him either :lol:

I do think that United's squad is cack next to Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus (Pogba must be kicking himself; and he'd probably miss) and Bayern Munich though. I'm not sure how an English club is going to get to even the Champions' League semi-finals ever again either.
 
Still, Leicester City won the title last year with a distinctly average to below average squad, plus N'Golo Kante. And then their manager was sacked, and afterwards they got to the Champions' League quarter finals, so it doesn't seem to have been down to him either :lol:
It's a funny old game, that much is certain.

I appreciate your perspective and thank you for being understanding.
 
Couple of big games in the League tonight in the fight for fourth place, plus there's the Championship play-off second leg between Reading and Fulham, which is 1-1 after the first game.

Curious team news from United ahead of Southampton tomorrow night, De Gea hasn't travelled, no Pogba either as he mourning his fathers passing on Friday (he wont play on Sunday either) and Blind will be rested. Fellaini is back though :indiff:
 
Couple of big games in the League tonight in the fight for fourth place, plus there's the Championship play-off second leg between Reading and Fulham, which is 1-1 after the first game.

Curious team news from United ahead of Southampton tomorrow night, De Gea hasn't travelled, no Pogba either as he mourning his fathers passing on Friday (he wont play on Sunday either) and Blind will be rested. Fellaini is back though :indiff:

Looks like we'll get thousands of chances and score a wonder goal, have a 0-0 or have loads of chances and somebody will bundle something scrappy in.
 
Arsenal beat Sunderland 2-0 and Man City beat WBA 3-1, so many empty seats at the Emirates for the Arsenal game...

Reading narrowly beat Fulham 1-0 to make it to the Championship playoff final.
 
No surprise, started the season quite well fell apart since the turn of the year, direct Football, not many goals scored, Mazzarri failed to learn proper English in his time here.

The Pozzo family have now gone through eight managers in the five years since they took over the club.
 
Sure glad I don't have Gabbiadini in my fantasy team when they finally decided to play him and let him take a penalty.

Oh, wait.
We'll score a goal one day. I'll let you know when we do. Just to clarify, I probably won't remind you if we don't score vs Stoke on Sunday.
 
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I saw that Manchester United once again did a great job of being average. :dopey:

Also, another 2 injuries, Matt and Fellaini. Good stuff, so close before a final.
 
Didn't really see much of the United game as I wasn't arsed, the penalty incident was crap as it was at least a yard outside the box but Romero saved it anyway, looks like I didn't miss much else.

Monaco have won the French Ligue 1 and Juventus have won the Coppa Italia for a third straight year, Real Madrid took a big step closer to the La Liga title with a 4-1 over Celta, it was their game in hand over Barca and are now three points clear going in to the final day on Sunday.
 
I don't get why Jose says we don't care for these games then plays a reasonably full squad just to roll over and play possum to Arsenal and Tottenham. Just play the youth players if need be.

I saw that Manchester United once again did a great job of being average. :dopey:

Also, another 2 injuries, Matt and Fellaini. Good stuff, so close before a final.


^^^^

Completely pointless game and we've lost a couple of players that had a decent chance of appearing in the final. Woo!
 
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