2016 Formula 1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by TenEightyOne, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    Yeah. This has been brought up a lot to me elsewhere, but Massa himself said during F1 Extra what he drove today was that chassis.

    Whether he misspoke because he was in an emotional state at the time I don't know, but if he needs to have it repaired I hope he would because, you know, track days for... days. :p
     
  2. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    It was equally stupid for him to say "I won't do it" and then do it anyway. It would have been smarter to say "we'll see what happens".

    If another team wanted to make him scrub toilets, that's their choice. Me, I would have passed on Hamilton - he requires far too much micromanagement - and Rosberg and instead hired Alonso and Verstappen.
     
  3. Leadfoot530

    Leadfoot530

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    If a team says "we plan on running on softs and supersofts for the race" and then it rains, and they put on wets or whatever, does that make them stupid?

    Strategy is a time dependent thing. You can say one thing, but when it gets to that moment, instincts kick in and whatever feels right for the moment is what is done.

    Was it a great thing to do? No, but if he wanted to have a shot at the title, it's the only option he had.
     
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  4. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    The team told him that if he backed Rosberg up, they'd give Rosberg pit priority (and likely undercut him). So what did Hamilton do? He waited until after the pit stops. It was underhanded and clearly premeditated, and Hamilton thumbed his nose at everyone by claiming that he was racing.

    It's okay to back someone up to help your team-mate, like Verstappen did. But it's not okay to back your team-mate up for the sake of ruining their race. Part of me would like to believe that Vettel would have seen straight through Hamilton's dirty driving and held station. He was spitting venom when Verstappen did it to him in Mexico, after all.
     
  5. MUSC4EVER

    MUSC4EVER

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    He was fighting for the championship and did what he could, was it a bit questionable? Yes, should he be punished? no...
     
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  6. Brend

    Brend Premium

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    If anything it settled any qualms I had with Nico being a deserving champion.

    He handled the pressure with aplomb and took it to the flag expertly. If he can learn how to actually be a bit more raw in his driving, Lewis will have serious competition in that team.

    In my opinion - Hamilton is still by far a better driver.
     
  7. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne

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    The man once called "the most dangerous man in F1" (back when it was really really dangerous)? The man who other drivers said was "a menace" and "had no place in the sport"?

    He was only tamed after seeing the two halves of Francois Cevert in the wreckage of the accident at Watkins Glen. Which leads me to complete my answer...

    ...Jackie Stewart.
     
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  8. Northstar

    Northstar Premium

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    They also said they wouldn't interfere with the championship battle.

    So does that make them lying scum like Hamilton is?:odd:

    So you're mad because Hamilton used that thing between his ears? :confused:

    I think people put way to much emphasis on team-mates.
     
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  9. NW48

    NW48

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    Yeah the team managed to fix the chassis from Brazil so he could race it at Abu Dhabi then keep it afterwards. It'd be a bit crap if he wrote it off at Abu Dhabi yesterday though. :lol:
     
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  10. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Pre-Abu Dhabi gp convo between Clair and Felipe

    Clair: I just want to thank you for being a key member of the team for that past two years, and to show our appreciation we're letting you keep your race car after the GP is over.

    Massa: It's been great, and what a gift!

    Clair: Now remember Felipe, just don't repeat what you did in Brazil...we wont be fixing it after this

    Felipe: :(
     
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  11. Jubby

    Jubby Premium

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    If you posted that earlier, then I apologize--- it may be out of context. I quick read the posts until something caught my eye, I probably missed your point prior.

    Would you have not done the same thing? There is no rule against it, nor against lying (what we think of it) or as people call it in sports: strategy.

    I would say that unabashedly that someone is lying if they were to tell me that they would not back someone up to give them the result they wanted/needed... as long as it is not illegal. If it is against the regs, please show me.

    You can run any pace you want as a driver as long as you're not imposing a danger. What happens if you're running slower due to tires and running a longer stint? Whether it be on purpose or car limitations, a team/driver has that right. If not, then we need to penalize every person that let a teammate pass (let alone win) and even the teammate that passed them--- as that's collusion (since we're taking ethics/morals into account). Let's take it a step further--- Nico could lose the championship by not taking the car to parc ferme- Charlie could infer Nico's stopping on track as a violation of the sporting regulations which could be a 5 second penalty (at least), demoting him to 4th.

    We can "make up" rules that we think would make it better, but while we're at it, we're ignoring ones that exist. Personally, let's not demote Nico due to a rule interpretation and let's not chastise Lewis for something that is widely accepted at most times... except in the 11th hour.
     
  12. Sum1s2pid

    Sum1s2pid

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    I hope Mercedes doesn't punish Hamilton like I've been reading. Lewis didn't do anything I've seen that anyone else in motorsports wouldn't have done if in his position, they got their 1-2, nobody got hurt, and his tactics -- though a bit cheeky -- made for a fairly exciting end to the season.

    Oh, and bye, Button and Massa! /brofist
     
  13. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    No, I wouldn't have. Because I would have focused on my starts earlier in the season.
     
  14. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    He claimed he did he was shown doing it in FP like others, and just the clutch was troublesome especially early on, to the point both drivers suffered. I'd say that after the summer break there was no excuse. Which is why Monza or even Japan shouldn't have happened. I think Baku isn't going to be a good track for him ever, like that of Singapore, new street circuits seem to be his crux, and where Nico really does well. Point is of course you'd say this in hindsight, if I could suggest a new years resolution to you, perhaps next year see a little less red when the name Lewis Hamilton appears.
     
  15. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    But Sky put his name on a red background!
     
  16. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    You claim to be colorblind, it shouldn't be hard to see past that compared to the average holder of animosity toward Hamilton.
     
  17. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    Hamilton does need some micro-management, as do pretty much all of the drivers, but if you think an Alonso and Verstappen pairing would be better, you're crazy. Alonso famously demands #1 status, and I can't see Verstappen playing nicely with that. Alonso chucked a massive hissy fit over then rookie Hamilton beating him at Mclaren, and went to such lengths as blatant unsportsmanlike behaviour to ensure Hamilton didn't out-qualify him, and even attempting to blackmail Ron Dennis into giving him #1 status over Hamilton. Also seeing how much he blew up at the team at both Ferrari and now in his second stint at Mclaren, and after Massa's comments about what he's like to work with, I'd hate to have to manage him in a team, especially one with a young gun like Verstappen in the other seat.

    If I had to choose two drivers to have in a team, I'd probably choose Ricciardo and Raikkonen. Raikkonen is good enough, if the car is good enough, to get the job done, and Ricciardo is probably the best driver on the current grid, and both of them are ridiculously easy going.

    It's ok to back your team mate up, there's nothing at all wrong with that. Is it a cheeky tactic? For sure. Is it wrong? Not at all. The only reason a driver should help his team mate win the title is when he himself is not in the running. When two drivers are fighting each other for the title, even team mates, they should use every weapon in their arsenal, within the rules of course, to fight for the title. If Hamilton didn't try something, people would now be questioning his hunger for success.

    Hamilton's not the only one who had poor starts, and it wasn't his fault. Rosberg also had poor starts, and Mercedes had to rectify it because of all the top teams, they suffered the worst when the new single clutch starting procedure was introduced. Hamilton honestly couldn't have done much more than he did this season. He out-qualified his team mate, and won more races, over the course of the season. He just had some bad luck, and that happens in racing. Both drivers did a good job this year, just the luck went Nico's way.

    With that said, I feel I should add that I'm not a fan of either of them, but I am glad Nico won the title, because both of them have been incredibly fortunate to find themselves in such dominant cars over the last three years, and Lewis has reaped the benefits of that with two titles, so I felt that Nico deserved some of that luck too, which he got.

    I'm looking forward to next season now, with hopefully more than one team at the front!
     
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  18. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    I am, but only certain combinations of colours trigger it. That's what colourblindness is - the inability to properly distinguish between two colours. There are some variations where your eyes don't properly interpret colours or where you only see in black and white, but they are much more rare than what I have.
     
  19. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    Yeah a friend of mine gets confused between pink and orange, other than that he's fine. Apparently that is a common pair when it comes to colour blindness.
     
  20. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Red and green are my problem colours. The best way to describe it is if you put the #3 ball and the #6 ball on a pool table and ask me to tell them apart, I won't be able to do it. One is brown and the other is red, but to my eyes, they look exactly the same. So I have to rely on other stimulii to tell them apart - if I see the numbers, I know which is which, and my mind fills in the blanks.

    It happens because the receptors in my eyes which detect the three primary colours haven't developed properly. The ones that should pick up red and green separately are actually picking up both.
     
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  21. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    You have red/green colorblindness, which is genetic and the only one I've ever heard of or educated myself on. Also I know your color blindness...I think you forget how long I've been on the forum and before that F1fanatic.

    Point is, you should be able to cope ;)
     
  22. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    You must hate Christmas! :lol:



    ....I'll get my coat.
     
  23. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    I think you missed the joke. I know what "seeing red" means. I was just pointing out that Sky use a red background for their graphics; while you were being figurative, I was being literal.
     
  24. Whodoyouthink

    Whodoyouthink

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    Man, for the first time in a while, I felt Lewis was very enjoyable to watch. He actually put up a great fight, and said all things I probably would've said if I was in his position. His sort of carefree mentality was refreshing, instead of what I think of the usual uptight. It was funny to hear Rosberg coming off as so desperate, constantly asking for some degree of a team order to fly by. It was further cemented by his display of willpower to retain second, it was really entertaining for such a typically so-so finale track. I think we would've all been happy with finishing off at Brazil, but this was a pleasant added bonus. Doesn't top Kimi's "Leave Me ALONE" 2012 moment (my first taste of F1), but it was better than the last 2 years for sure.

    I also kept wondering if they was to be some sort of nonsense penalty for the numerous donuts being done, but I remembered the rules changed at some point to allow leeway for special occasions.

    I really like how in some ways the finale is almost parallel to the opening race; there is greater chance for typically low-scoring drivers and teams to do well and the formalities become a tad relaxed.
     
  25. Jubby

    Jubby Premium

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    No... you can't straw-man me here. Answer the argument at its merit, not creating a fallacy that helps your position, please. If you were faced with the exact situation with laps to go as Lewis had... would you:

    • Take the chance at slowing the pace and backing Nico up if it meant a better chance at the WDC
    Or
    • Drive as hard and fast as possible and most likely ruin any plausible chance at the title
     
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  26. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    I would have pushed. I would have gone out on my terms, ended the season on a high with consecutive race wins and maintained a positive relationship with the team. More to the point, I wouldn't want a title tarnished by unsportsmanlike behaviour.
     
  27. mustafur

    mustafur

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    Whilst Hamilton was getting Slower, Rosberg wasn't really getting closer to him, Hamilton was literally using the one tactic he could use to win the championship and it didn't involve crashing.

    The Team getting involved was pointless, Both championships are theirs regardless so let their drivers sort it out on track.
     
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  28. Peter.

    Peter.

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    Teammates are no longer teammates if they're both fighting for a title, especially if the constructors title is over. Considering the downright dirty and insane things drivers could and have done before this to try and secure titles, there is absolutely nothing whatsoever that Hamilton did that warrants any hostility. Might as well blame him for why the wind blows, or for why 2 Broke Girls made it to 6 seasons.

    Mercedes saying they would give Rosberg help if he was stuck behind Lewis, is funny enough, different from their usual refusal to give the driver being held up, usually Lewis, an undercut on their teammate. But I'm sure you wouldnt have an issue there.
     
  29. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    I'm quite sure that, had their positions going into the race been reversed, Mercedes would have given the same instruction to Rosberg.

    Also, Mercedes did not promise to help Rosberg. They told Hamilton that if he tried to impede Rosberg, then Rosberg would get pit priority. If Hamilton was running a reasonable pace and Rosberg was stuck behind him, then Rosberg was on his own.
     
  30. OutlawQuadrnt

    OutlawQuadrnt

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    Whoops. I forgot to record the last race. I always do that every year.

    Well, sounds like the outcome is what I had predicted, even down to the comments. Frankly, I just want an actual battle for the championship on the track next year instead of it being decided by blown engines, starts and strategies.