2016 Formula 1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by TenEightyOne, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    And if Rosberg had tried passing Hamilton and been held up or blocked in his attempt I would agree with you, however the simple fact is that Rosberg didn't attempt to close the gap and overtake Hamilton, not even once.

    As such I see no reason why Hamilton should have simply given up the place and go into 2017 having lost both the WDC and the number of race wins from 2016.

    Rosberg deserves the WDC without a doubt and has raced excellently all season, but I don't see that as a reason to be 'gifted' a final race win (which to my mind would have seen many people try and label it as undeserved if it had happened).
     
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  2. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    Wow ... Fan rants are to be expected but is that journalism? Times indeed have changed, I do remember back in 1976 I was a huge Lauda fan and I just couldn't believe how he gave (and lost) that championship to what I regarded as a second tier driver, and a clearly inferior one (to Lauda), named James Hunt. I do remember scoffing at the mere mention of the name "Hunt" and how I felt vindicated when Lauda reclaimed the title one year later.

    I grew from that of course (was 12 at the time) and I didn't need the "Rush" movie to gain a lot of respect from Hunt. Especially I understood that there are no "What IF" or "IF only" in Formula 1. You may dislike the champion, but to be WDC, even once, you must be nothing short of an excepcional racing driver.

    Why all this ranting now? Well, because of the picture shared by PeterJB. I do remember that my fan rage and despise for Hunt's title was NOT echoed in any newspaper, by any journalist. All recognized that what had happened to Lauda in the Nurburgring affected his decision to give up the fight under the horrible conditions in Japan, but I never found (and I looked for it, believe me) the depiction of Hunt as a "unworthy" champion.

    It's just sad that this is how sports journalism (specifically motorsports journalism) evolved.
     
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  3. Vinylshark

    Vinylshark

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    I've never said anything about giving Rosberg the win. He looked pretty cozy in second place imo. You all keep looking with Hamiltons point of view, but not the point of view from Mercedes. The team wanted Hamilton helping to secure a 1-2 finish. Instead he tried to rob the team a two driver podium finish. If I would lead a racing team I surely wouldn't be thrilled either, seeing one of my drivers trying to rob the team a double podium finish. I also wouldn't accept him fighting for the WDC as an 'excuse' for this kind of behaviour.
    But that's just my two cents.
     
  4. mustafur

    mustafur

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    This 1-2 finish means nothing if everything is in Mercedes hands regardless of result, symbolic victories shouldn't have to take Championship priority.
     
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  5. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    So you would tell one of your drivers to forget about any hope of winning the WDC when it was still a possibility?

    I'm looking at this from the point of view of both drivers and the WDC; Merc as a team had already won the Manufacturers championship. Now if that had not been the case they may have a point, but that was already firmly in the bag.

    I'm not sure what kind of behavior you are referring too? Did he deliberately block Rosberg or stop him attempting to overtake? No, because Rosberg didn't even attempt to do so. Lets be clear given the pace difference Rosberg could easily have caught Hamilton and made an attempt at a pass. He chose not to do that.
     
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  6. TRGTspecialist

    TRGTspecialist

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    I hope these aren't suggestions that those topics aren't even allowed to be up for discussion now.
     
  7. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    Are you printing a newspaper or posting anonymously in an internet forum? Different AUPs I think
     
  8. Pezzarinho17

    Pezzarinho17

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    Hamilton's argument should be that he didn't jeopardise the 1-2 result which would demonstrate Mercedes superiority, but in fact showed that Mercedes is a team that allowed both of it's drivers to fight for the Championship and allowed them to race. They have been keen to ensure that happens on an individual race basis, but unfortunately we all heard the radio instructions...
     
  9. TRGTspecialist

    TRGTspecialist

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    Nope, but neither is the BBC Sport website. :p

    Seriously though, no, I don't see it as off-limits for them to raise the points in those headlines/articles - especially not because anyone (most in this thread I'm guessing) might disagree with them. But again I'm only hoping that wasn't the suggestion........if it wasn't then that's fine, and I apologise.
     
  10. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    They had no business giving orders mate. They were contesting the DRIVERS championship. All they can do is give each driver the best preparation they can, but they are out of line saying what they said. The end
     
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  11. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    The controversy is breaking into the mainstream media, which can only be good, since Trump proved that any publicity is good publicity.

    Hopefully, there will be even more controversy and publicity in the future - maybe enough to revive the German Grand Prix?
     
  12. TheCracker

    TheCracker Premium

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    Mercedes had, at that point, already scored six 1-2 finishes that season with 18 (out of 20) 1st place finishes (with 31 podiums in total). What's another 1-2 going to add to their season as a team if it's also likely to alienate one of their drivers? Isn't that a touch short sighted of them?

    Had it been one of the other teams running 1-2 at that point, i could see why they may have brought team orders into play to protect those positions. But in a season where Merc have dominated, it means nothing.
     
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  13. MUSC4EVER

    MUSC4EVER Premium

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    Also, another point i want to make before i shut up, before the race Mercedes said that they wouldn't get involved and 'let them race', and what did they do? They got involved...
     
  14. H20HYBRID_GT

    H20HYBRID_GT

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    No, I agree with you, they didn't want to decide the championship in one way or another, but they wanted to force their view on what is fair and what isn't on Hamilton - and thus were interfering.

    And I think the "threat" of Vettel was just their excuse to do so, everyone including Hamilton knew he'd "suddenly" go faster as soon as Vettel (or Verstappen) would get past Rosberg.

    Like I said, it maybe wasn't nice what he did, it certainly wasn't unfair as he managed the pace quite well and I think even Rosberg sees it like that?

    I thought it was "interesting" and made an otherwise almost dull race rather exciting. :)
     
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  15. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    Dull race, dull season, dull era in F1.

    F1 racing was far more exciting and interesting when most of the field ran Cosworths against occasional opposition from Ferrari and continuous jokes from BRM.
     
  16. brocktj4

    brocktj4

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    The disrespect shown towards Rosberg is completely uncalled for. It makes me all the more glad that he is the world champion.
     
  17. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    It's an opinion, so discuss it. To be clear he says "Nico will never be Lewis' equal as a racing driver" (my emphasis). I tend to agree with that, I have to say.

    Interesting to see that some of the comments here condemning Hamilton for backing up are from people who have Alonso in their Top Four F1 Drivers of The Season... short, short memories :D
     
  18. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    It's almost like the British Broadcasting Corporation is writing for a domestic audience or something.
     
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  19. H20HYBRID_GT

    H20HYBRID_GT

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    To be fair, I said almost. :p I didn't find it dull or boring - there were a couple of overtakes (I guess mainly from Verstappen) and I totally love the track, it's exactly how I imagine an "F1" track plus the day / night thing is totally awesome!
    It's just it could have gotten really boring fast, if Hamilton just drove away, which I'm sure he could have, if he wanted.

    I gotta agree about the era thing, it's rather dull and the FIA keeps interfering way too much in pretty odd ways, which doesn't help... maybe this will change now - I hear a certain Mr Eccleston is leaving?

    Disagree about this particular season, I didn't watch the last 2 seasons or so (only a few races) but I thought this season was pretty exciting with lots of actually good racing - especially mid field fights were awesome, Alonso - Sainz basically battling it out each race, Raikonnen - Vettel was also interesting, just lots of good racing overall, almost no crashes is something I liked, too. Hamilton - Rosberg drama, Max "Hi I'm crazy" Verstappen mixing the field up from whatever position he is in. Brasil in the Rain, one of the best races ever, with an incredible Verstappen playing "rain god", no, I disagree I loved this season and I'm super happy for Rosberg to finally get the well deserved title.

    I mean, I accept when others see this different, but that's how I see it, pretty good season and I hope the next will be even better with a Verstappen surely being the hottest title contender now, which alone should make it interesting!
     
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  20. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    That's exactly what it looks like. The Parochial British Broadcasting Corporation.
     
  21. OutlawQuadrnt

    OutlawQuadrnt Premium

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    I have no sympathy for Mercedes. Flat out, Hamilton and Rosberg have no business being on the same team. Pairings of drivers where both believe can win has a history of high friction (Vettel and Webber being the most recent example). They are getting the results of this pairing with wins and championships but there is a price to pay for that. If they weren't expecting all this drama, they're incredibly naive.
     
  22. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Because he couldn't. As soon as he got close, Hamilton stepped up the pace to be out of DRS range.
     
  23. Sum1s2pid

    Sum1s2pid

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    That's the dilemma. How can Mercedes punish Lewis for ignoring team orders that arguably shouldn't have been given in the first place? If anything, I'd say that the team should apologize for trying to interfere. The season built up to this dramatic, nail-biting final race shootout -- and it mostly delivered -- but it was almost ruined by meddling from the higher-ups.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Mercedes were well within their rights to give the orders. They wanted a particular result, but Hamilton chose to jeopardise it for his own selfish ends. They should have turned his engine down - and Rosberg's up - for a few laps.
     
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  25. zzz_pt

    zzz_pt

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    If backing up to make sure your oponent gets in a hot position or possibly involved in an accident that wouldn't happen if everyone would be racing at full speed is OK in this race, anyone will have the same argument in any other race from now on. Imagine if Rosberg had done it in the 9 races he won just to make sure Hamilton (or any other driver behind him for that matter) would be put into pressure or screwed and, as a consequence, have the chance to broden even more the point difference. Or if Hamilton would have done this in the other 9 races he won. Why no one did it? If this is fair, the argument can be applied at any given GP in the championship because in every race they're fighting for it (as it happened 4 times in the last decade (2007/2008/2010/2012).

    Would we make up a rule that only applies in the last race? Why not the last 2 races? Why not the last 3, 5 races?... We tried already with the last race giving x2 the points. No one liked it.

    I don't think Hamilton should be sacked by Mercedes though (I think that's made up BS by BBC). F1 is not as exciting as it used to be. True. Is this the proper way to make it exciting? I highly doubt it. If anyone wants slower cars with even performances, they can watch GP2/GP3. In F1 everyone should be driving at full speed and not slowing down an entire race because "it makes things more exciting for the viewer".

    Some people are saying MB shouldn't have told Hamilton to speed up and should instead just let him race as he wanted. Well, as a company, they want both cars in front. Hamilton was trying to make it so he would be first and Rosberg would be 4th or even be involved in an accident. Every team in the lineup wants both of their cars to get as many points as possible. And all of them want the team to be #1 priority and not one of the drivers. If they allow Hamilton to do what he wants and risk Rosbergs 2nd place, they're defending Hamilton against Rosberg and puting him above the team. Mercedes didn't tell Hamilton to slow down so Rosberg could overtake him. They also didn't tell Rosberg to slow down to 4th place so Hamilton could win the championship either. They wanted both cars in the first 2 spots and Hamilton was basically puting his interest above the team (probably neither Hamilton or Rosberg would have championship titles in the last 4 years if they were not part of Mercedes).
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  26. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Or in the past. One of the very first books I ever read about cars showed how a Formula 1 driver could help his teammate overtake a car between the two of them by backing it up. Indeed it's a tactic Red Bull tried only two races ago.
     
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  27. zzz_pt

    zzz_pt

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    That's helping a teammate. It's the opposite and no team has any problem with that.

    Just to add to what I said before, and I know what Hamilton did is not illegal or against the rules. The feeling I have is the same I have when I see a football team winning a Champions League in the final by playing an ugly game, without fair play and just making everything possible (and within the rules) to win it.

    I wouldn't like football if every team played like that all the time. By the same token, I wouldn't like F1 if they started to race as Hamilton chose to race yesterday. And they could... it's not against the rules.
     
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  28. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    No they shouldn't. They can hire them, they can fire them, but to cripple one of their own cars during a race would be to negate the very essence of what we are watching.
     
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  29. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    It's impossible, pit to car changes like that have been banned for over 10 years, all they can do is give advice on the radio. Which only works if the driver isn't a spoilt brat.
     
  30. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

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    That BBC page :lol: beebs a bit salty there.

    Also did Vivian call Nico monkey on the radio? that's kinda cute.