2016 Pirelli Chinese Grand Prix

[TenEightyOne]

I really hope Lewis Hamilton gives Ted Kravitz a pay raise, and soon - I'm watching a replay of FP1, and not five minutes in, Kravitz has explained at length as to why Hamilton's gearbox penalty actually offers an enormous advantage for the race.

Please could you share that reasoning? But not in Kravitz's voice, obviously

Other than last year where Lewis was in dominant showing, I think other years Rosberg was stronger and things didn't pan out.

Agreed. I think Raikkonnen also shows more overall acumen than Vettel at this track. Race of the "Number Two" drivers

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Please could you share that reasoning? But not in Kravitz's voice, obviously

Something about Hamilton's track record in Shanghai and not having to be concerned about the Ferraris overtaking him at the start thus opening up strategy options.

 

[[Nor]MclarenF1]

Nice to see Raikkonen topping FP2. Looks like Ferraris decision to revert to pushrod at the front for 2016 let's him go about with his style of driving without having to fight the car. Wouldn't be surprised if he bagged another podium finish on Sunday.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Something about Hamilton's track record in Shanghai and not having to be concerned about the Ferraris overtaking him at the start thus opening up strategy options.

Well it's supposed to be a wild strategy race, claim the pundits and teams so we'll see what "wild" really means. I don't see Lewis having it super easy though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't see Lewis having it super easy though.

Neither - my comment was more of a jab at Ted Kravitz than anything else. He flies the Union Jack so hard that you could be forgiven for thinking that Trafalgar was about to start up again.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Neither - my comment was more of a jab at Ted Kravitz than anything else. He flies the Union Jack so hard that you could be forgiven for thinking that Trafalgar was about to start up again.

I know what your comment was at, most comments you make on threads regardless of topic end up being a jab toward some portion of an established system. My point to your comment was though he is over the top at times, he does have a point along with many others you probably wouldn't blast as harshly. The race is expected to have crazy strategies, and Kravitz seems to be running with it as a foundation on how Lewis can overcome this misfortune.

Thus negating some of the brunt you're giving the guy (yet again) solely based on merit of what is popular thought this weekend and nothing to do with the fanfare the guy gives for a national driver.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

he does have a point along with many others you probably wouldn't blast as harshly. The race is expected to have crazy strategies, and Kravitz seems to be running with it as a foundation on how Lewis can overcome this misfortune.

Okay, it's a race that's expected to present a diverse range of strategies, talk about the permutations snd combinations of strategies and how they might play out. I don't think Kravitz is using this as the foundation for anything more than his usual trumpeting Hamilton's fortunes because there was nothing substantial to them.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Okay, it's a race that's expected to present a diverse range of strategies, talk about the permutations snd combinations of strategies and how they might play out. I don't think Kravitz is using this as the foundation for anything more than his usual trumpeting Hamilton's fortunes because there was nothing substantial to them.

Well sure you do, but then again based on how often you find something to hate about Kravitz based on his likes for Hamilton, due to the inverse feeling you yourself hold for Hamilton at the same time...

The argument loses out to me and probably many others who read this and grow tired of what seem to be certain transgressions. However, beyond that, considering how much Ted Kravitz does talking between teams and their engineering staff between and at races, it's a very viable train of thought that he himself also see the many facets of how strategies can play out here. And due to that can couple it with the idea of how it might play out for a driver he likes, despite the like of said driver.

Or it could just be evil Kravitz again, blowing smoke up the butt of a certain driver, how dare he and more from Prisonermonkey at 5

 

[prisonermonkeys]

considering how much Ted Kravitz does talking between teams and their engineering staff between and at races, it's a very viable train of thought that he himself also see the many facets of how strategies can play out here. And due to that can couple it with the idea of how it might play out for a driver he likes, despite the like of said driver.

So why not give something tangible? The drivers get to choose their tyre allocations for each race - couple what we know about the tyre performance and expected tyre degradation, and we can start to reason out possible strategy options. Since you can't assume that every viewer can come up with those numbers on their own, it stands to reason that you should share them. But not Ted Kravitz; I fail to see what Hamilton's track record in Shanghai factors into his strategy.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So why not give something tangible? The drivers get to choose their tyre allocations for each race - couple what we know about the tyre performance and expected tyre degradation, and we can start to reason out possible strategy options. Since you can't assume that every viewer can come up with those numbers on their own, it stands to reason that you should share them. But not Ted Kravitz; I fail to see what Hamilton's track record in Shanghai factors into his strategy.

That he's good at the track and probably could do even better dependent upon certain strategy? It's not really hard to guess, I myself came up with a simple idea of tire strategy for Lewis on this very thread. And only doing so with the simple notion he'd get pole based on...former track record and speed he's had. Same thing I use with other drives as I just recently did with Rosberg.

If he's solely using number of wins and poles without any other context then I agree, he's wrong in doing so and simply just blowing smoke up Lewis's rear.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If he's solely using number of wins and poles without any other context then I agree, he's wrong in doing so and simply just blowing smoke up Lewis's rear.

That's the problem - he does it at every race. It doesn't matter what the situation is; it's always perfect for Hamilton to succeed.

One of the most interesting debates Sky has had recently was on the merits of matte paint. That's the sort of stuff that they should be discussing; it certainly makes the broadcasts more interesting.

 

[FoRiZon]

Not sure where to put this. But since the first two performances by Rio, People in here start to compare Manor (You know, cars dictate win more than the drivers) to this local, Metromini bus:

Which is known to be ridiculously unreliable, old, bad attitude drivers, and soon to be banned by the Government.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That's the problem - he does it at every race. It doesn't matter what the situation is; it's always perfect for Hamilton to succeed.

One of the most interesting debates Sky has had recently was on the merits of matte paint. That's the sort of stuff that they should be discussing; it certainly makes the broadcasts more interesting.

To who? You and I, sure. But do you really think paint talk is going to bring in the more regular viewers?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Once again, looking up the numbers is easy, but doesn't tell the full story. FPs Nico has always been faster and in Quali he's looked to beat Lewis but like the last GP Lewis finds a flier.

Rosberg is a better at this track based on the fact he's been quick here with various cars of varying performance compared to competitors. He's won at this track with a car that was second rate to that of field, and performed well here with the best car. It's basically the same thing as people saying that Canada couldn't be a Lewis track since Rosberg as technically beaten Lewis their 2-1 on race day. Despite the fact that there is more than the numbers going on.

Rosberg has had more consistency here despite the car he drives, that he is a clear threat to Lewis in the same car. Bahrain to me is the same and was only a matter of time for a win. Other than last year where Lewis was in dominant showing, I think other years Rosberg was stronger and things didn't pan out.

Better at this track and having more consistency here you're saying.

Sure, he has never beaten Lewis as teammates at this track. If Lewis wins this weekend, will be track he has won the most at winning 5 out of 10. I guess it will still be a Rosberg track if that happens using your logic though...

 

[twitcher]

Please tell me this is somewhere online.

I found this on Twitter, no video of it though

 

[TRGTspecialist]

That's the problem - he does it at every race.

Yes, it can be annoying when certain people bang on about the same damn thing every race.


Forgot to ask this at the previous race - has the free live timing on the F1 website stopped showing time gaps between the drivers this year?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Better at this track and having more consistency here you're saying.

Sure, he has never beaten Lewis as teammates at this track. If Lewis wins this weekend, will be track he has won the most at winning 5 out of 10. I guess it will still be a Rosberg track if that happens using your logic though...

5 out of 10 okay, so you're using a number to claim that the obvious faster driver is Lewis a number that is taken out of context even? I'm just comparing consistency between the two, Rosberg increasingly got better with the cars he was given and made the best out of them from 2010 onwards I'd say is why I think this. The Toyoto powered Williams wasn't a very good car most days but there are even times in that he showed strength.

Also I highlighted how this may be difficult to grasp and used a similar example with Lewis, but you took my post as a joke, so sorry for that I suppose?

I still feel it holds merit, that Lewis to me is a more consistent driver at Canada, yet people (if only looking at results between them) would say otherwise. Once again more to the story, but we see it differently so oh well.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

5 out of 10 okay, so you're using a number to claim that the obvious faster driver is Lewis a number that is taken out of context even? I'm just comparing consistency between the two, Rosberg increasingly got better with the cars he was given and made the best out of them from 2010 onwards I'd say is why I think this. The Toyoto powered Williams wasn't a very good car most days but there are even times in that he showed strength.

Also I highlighted how this may be difficult to grasp and used a similar example with Lewis, but you took my post as a joke, so sorry for that I suppose?

I still feel it holds merit, that Lewis to me is a more consistent driver at Canada, yet people (if only looking at results between them) would say otherwise. Once again more to the story, but we see it differently so oh well.

Made the best of them 2010 onwards? How does that work if you get beaten by your teammate 2013 onwards so far. They are usually very close at all tracks in terms of performance so will be interesting to see how it goes this time around.

Lewis has better head to head against Nico at Montreal too, also has 4 victories at that track compared to 0 for Nico if only looking at results. Shame about reliability in 2014, otherwise might have been 3-0 head to head and 5th victory there. It is only 2-1 instead to Lewis, not Nico as you try and make out.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

But do you really think paint talk is going to bring in the more regular viewers?

Yes, I do. A common complaint is that the sport struggles to engage audiences. The broadcast is going to be the first point of contact for any new audiences, so the incentive is there to make it more engaging. I hear talk about the choice of paint, and I immediately see the potential there because it shows that the sport is so competitive that paint choice is believed to offer an advantage. It has to be presented at the right level, of course, but if you want to engage new audiences, that's how you do it.

Of course, it doesn't have to be the paintwork that the broadcaster uses as a hook. Where is the analysis of strategy, for instance? V8 Supercars do this (reasonably) well, showing projected strategies and highlighting things for the audience to watch out for. Where is the analysis of new parts, like the nose Williams debuted in Bahrain? Sure, it gets mentioned, and maybe a photo is shown for comparison, but there is no talk about what the team see in it. Instead, we get Ted Kravitz prattling on about something that he can't prove beyond conjecture, while Brundle and Croft assume that their audience is made up of twelve year-olds who are only watching for the first time. And then people wonder why viewing figures are down ...

Yes, it can be annoying when certain people bang on about the same damn thing every race.

I'll stop when Ted does.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Made the best of them 2010 onwards? How does that work if you get beaten by your teammate 2013 onwards so far. They are usually very close at all tracks in terms of performance so will be interesting to see how it goes this time around.

2014 he had a brake problem in quali and the race, even though he himself said he couldn't have beat Lewis in quali that day, the lap was never there. A common issue with the W05. 2013 He didn't finish the race I think he was about by lap 20 something. 2015 Hamilton owned the entire weekend. In context it doesn't simply come off as a win here and win there.

Lewis has better head to head against Nico at Montreal too, also has 4 victories at that track compared to 0 for Nico if only looking at results. Shame about reliability in 2014, otherwise might have been 3-0 head to head and 5th victory there. It is only 2-1 instead to Lewis, not Nico as you try and make out.

That's not how head to heads work, my gosh please stop. A head to head is a team mate vs team mate thing. Not let's take the entire career of two drivers who for a massive portion of the time driving did so in vastly different cars until they became team mates. Really isn't fair. And in reality what we know now with as close as they have been in race pace and quali form, one could easily conclude that Rosberg could have beat or been on par with some of the best McLarens Lewis drove. If you want to do a true head to head do so. From the onset I've been talking about how good Nico is as this track due to career record. And why I see this as a Nico track in the same way I see Montreal or Silverstone as a Lewis track despite who they beat or loss to. This is where you misinterpreted my post as something of disregarding what Lewis has done on track. Which is ironic considering how massive a Lewis fan I am, as many know.

@prisonermonkeys I agree, just so it doesn't seem like I ignored your post. If in the right context and with the right production/presentation I feel you're right. It could be engaging enough and get people to follow F1 for the right reasons and less of the tabloid politics.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

2014 he had a brake problem in quali and the race, even though he himself said he couldn't have beat Lewis in quali that day, the lap was never there. A common issue with the W05. 2013 He didn't finish the race I think he was about by lap 20 something. 2015 Hamilton owned the entire weekend. In context it doesn't simply come off as a win here and win there.



That's not how head to heads work, my gosh please stop. A head to head is a team mate vs team mate thing. Not let's take the entire career of two drivers who for a massive portion of the time driving did so in vastly different cars until they became team mates. Really isn't fair. And in reality what we know now with as close as they have been in race pace and quali form, one could easily conclude that Rosberg could have beat or been on par with some of the best McLarens Lewis drove. If you want to do a true head to head do so. From the onset I've been talking about how good Nico is as this track due to career record. And why I see this as a Nico track in the same way I see Montreal or Silverstone as a Lewis track despite who they beat or loss to. This is where you misinterpreted my post as something of disregarding what Lewis has done on track. Which is ironic considering how massive a Lewis fan I am, as many know.

Got a source for that? Think there were telemetry issues.

Going by what you wrote, context is Nico was never good enough to beat Lewis in 2013, 2014 or 2015 at a track you rate him above Lewis.

Head to head is teammate battle, that's why I mentioned the score so far as teammates. You're the one bringing up career before so I talked a little about that. Anyway if he was so strong at this track, why in 2013 and 2014 did he qualify 3 places behind Lewis?

 

[RACECAR]

I really hope Lewis Hamilton gives Ted Kravitz a pay raise, and soon - I'm watching a replay of FP1, and not five minutes in, Kravitz has explained at length as to why Hamilton's gearbox penalty actually offers an enormous advantage for the race.

Its amazing how you can't go one season without complaining about Kravitz and his "Hamilton, Hamilton, Hamilton" commentary on that one channel while I and many others managed to more or less just move the hell along despite five consecutive years of "Danica, Danica, Danica" across not one or two, not even three but four damn networks. I seriously can't tell anymore if you Hate Hamilton because of Hamilton or you hate Hamilton because of Kravitz, its really indistinguishable at this point.

 

[Sureboss]

It's really surprising that the leading British broadcaster talk about the leading British driver.

 

[twitcher]

Its amazing how you can't go one season without complaining about Kravitz and his "Hamilton, Hamilton, Hamilton" commentary on that one channel while I and many others managed to more or less just move the hell along despite five consecutive years of "Danica, Danica, Danica" across not one or two, not even three but four damn networks. I seriously can't tell anymore if you Hate Hamilton because of Hamilton or you hate Hamilton because of Kravitz, its really indistinguishable at this point.

Not super related, but I haven't really heard much "Danica Danica Danica" this year. Maybe Ive just tuned it out?

 

[sems4arsenal]

Are we getting the 2015 quali system?

 

[Peter.]

There's nothing wrong with expecting an unbiased presentation from a group of journalist/commentators, but they know what the people want to hear, and apart from in the case of more hardcore fans like us, it's usually not how matte paint gives a team an extra hundredth a lap or how this fancy looking new front wing works.

But hey, there's not much we can do about his bias apart from ignoring it altogether and trying to enjoy the presentation. Complaining about it at every single occasion, of which there are many, doesn't help one bit.

Are we getting the 2015 quali system?

Yes, in a shocking twist of events earlier in the week, a sensible decision was made.

 

[RACECAR]

Not super related, but I haven't really heard much "Danica Danica Danica" this year. Maybe Ive just tuned it out?

It was when she came fresh from Indycar. You could not have one broadcast that had her in it without her being mentioned so damn much. It got to the point where Kyle Petty was regularly making sport of it. There is literally a series of videos that count how many times her name is said throughout a broadcast of a race during the pre race show, during the race and after the race.

 

[Pupik]

Meanwhile, Stoff is in China for the race too

An F1 driver flying in tourist class. Makes me proud to get an upgrade today.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Not sure whete to put this. But since the first two perfomances by Rio, People in here start to compare Manor (You know, cars dictate win more than the drivers) to this local, Metromini bus:

Which is known to be ridiculously unreliable, old, bad attitude drivers, and soon to be banned by the Government.

The thing is Pascal is getting good results from the car. Typical of national news to start blaming the car rather than the driver. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Rio to do well and get more luck, but clearly the Manor has more potential than where he finished in Bahrain.

It's still just 2 races though so we'll see what happens.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Got a source for that? Think there were telemetry issues.

Source for which part?

Going by what you wrote, context is Nico was never good enough to beat Lewis in 2013, 2014 or 2015 at a track you rate him above Lewis.

How so, 2015 was the only conclusive year, 2013 Nico didn't finish due to car issues. It's funny you give Lewis a break on a retirement but not Nico. 2014 I already explain. Also could you fill me on what's so hilarious, I'm curious.

Head to head is teammate battle, that's why I mentioned the score so far as teammates. You're the one bringing up career before so I talked a little about that. Anyway if he was so strong at this track, why in 2013 and 2014 did he qualify 3 places behind Lewis?

No you haven't, you said 5 out 10 if Lewis wins this weekend, the post is right there...the two haven't been team mates that long. Then when I bring up a similar situation where many see Lewis better at a certain track but Nico has performed better, you still use career tallies. You've only used head to head stats once so far, and even then you counted retirements, most if not all publications I've seen use finished totals when comparing drivers.