2016 Pirelli Chinese Grand Prix

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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I and many others managed to more or less just move the hell along despite five consecutive years of "Danica, Danica, Danica" across not one or two, not even three but four damn networks.
You're assuming that I watch NASCAR.
 
It was when she came fresh from Indycar. You could not have one broadcast that had her in it without her being mentioned so damn much. It got to the point where Kyle Petty was regularly making sport of it. There is literally a series of videos that count how many times her name is said throughout a broadcast of a race during the pre race show, during the race and after the race.
:lol: I'm not new. I'm fully aware of this. That's why I said I hadn't heard much of it this year 👍
 
You're assuming that I watch NASCAR.

You're assuming that I'm assuming that you watch NASCAR (all of which is incorrect).

You've completely missed my point, which was that you are complaining about what you hear about a driver every single season on the one network you watch while some of us had to endure a driver who was far less talented and twice as overhyped and on twice as many channels (and at one annoying point, while going between two different series). So it comes off as quite pointless to bellyache about Kravitz and his Hamilton mentions when you can't do anything about it. Besides, I doubt once I hear it'll be no worse then what I had to put up with from Fox/Speed, ESPN and TNT (or what I now have to put up with from Eddie Cheever and his damn obsession with the Indy 500).
 
Source for which part?



How so, 2015 was the only conclusive year, 2013 Nico didn't finish due to car issues. It's funny you give Lewis a break on a retirement but not Nico. 2014 I already explain. Also could you fill me on what's so hilarious, I'm curious.



No you haven't, you said 5 out 10 if Lewis wins this weekend, the post is right there...the two haven't been team mates that long. Then when I bring up a similar situation where many see Lewis better at a certain track but Nico has performed better, you still use career tallies. You've only used head to head stats once so far, and even then you counted retirements, most if not all publications I've seen use finished totals when comparing drivers.
Brake problem.

2015 was the least conclusive year in my opinion. :lol: Lewis was ahead before getting problems, Nico retired when already behind to add context. It's hilarious because of how off the mark you are. I'm surprised I'm having to reply again really.

I also said 3-0 qualifying and race. You make up something up saying Nico has better head to head at Canada on race day. OK head to head at China and Canada where both drivers finished, 2-0 to Lewis at both tracks. Is that better for you? Also let's look at Nico's career record at this track, he has finished ahead only 2 out of the 7 races when both drivers finished. If it was his track through and through like you say, why has he got such a poor record against his teammates in races? You rate his consistency, if you get beaten consistently, does that mean it's one of your better tracks? Not really surprising that logic though, you're saying Nico is better at this track even though he has never beaten Lewis as teammates here. That may change this weekend though.
 
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Sooooo anyway, getting back to the actual race weekend. Teams are having to run with very high (for them) tyre pressures this weekend under instruction by Pirelli and there is some feeling that this is going to be beneficial to Ferrari vs Mercedes, and may be what we saw in FP2.

They've not said anything yet though, and of course instead we could just see the status quo when it matters in Quali and the race. Grosjean and Button have both had a moan though.

Grosjean: "Ridiculous" tyre pressure limits making Haas car "undriveable"


http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/g...re-limits-making-haas-car-undriveable-687255/


Button unhappy with “massively high” tyre pressures

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/04/15/button-unhappy-with-massively-high-tyre-pressures/
 
Meant to rain today which might shake up the order. Hopefully they lower the tyres pressures, Alonso also got asked about it: Link

Wonder if Williams will be really terrible if it does rain.
 
Brake problem.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/203397/1/rosberg-troubled-by-brakes-qualifies-fourth.html

2015 was the least conclusive year in my opinion. :lol: Lewis was ahead before getting problems, Nico retired when already behind to add context. It's hilarious because of how off the mark you are. I'm surprised I'm having to reply again really.

How, Lewis won hands down, FP1-3, quali and the race. Pretty conclusive of a dominant Lewis as he was for most of the 2015 year. Nico retired from behind, so what? Race winner qualified behind as well and beat Lewis, in the same car which Nico was as fast as Lewis in that year as well he could have beat his team mate.

I also said 3-0 qualifying and race. You make up something up saying Nico has better head to head at Canada on race day. OK head to head at China and Canada where both drivers finished, 2-0 to Lewis at both tracks. Is that better for you? Also let's look at Nico's career record at this track, he has finished ahead only 2 out of the 7 races when both drivers finished. If it was his track through and through like you say, why has he got such a poor record against his teammates in races? You rate his consistency, if you get beaten consistently, does that mean it's one of your better tracks? Not really surprising that logic though, you're saying Nico is better at this track even though he has never beaten Lewis as teammates here. That may change this weekend though.

Yeah I made note of those, but you more so carried on with career numbers and a point of argument. What? There weren't team mates for seven races. You know you pander on about how I'm out of touch yet were having a debate in regards to one of the most technical if not the most technical racing series on the planet. Where cars aren't very parallel in speeds to one another. Yet again you use career numbers as if they both drove equal machines. Quite silly. Especially when I believe one of those years Nico drove the FW 29 or 30 vs the championship winning MP4-23, and only once in the season was the car fast enough to in Nico's hands to finish ahead of Lewis (wasn't China).

If you perform consistently at tracks and finish in the top five in decent to good equipment and then you have other tracks where in the same equipment it's hit or miss, clearly this shows a track he's better and more comfortable at. Just cause he doesn't have 4, 5 or 6 wins at it doesn't mean he isn't good at it. And it's quite a pedantic train of thought to value you things is such a white and black way.

No I'm saying Nico is more consistent with equipment at this track then others, especially since 2010 to 2015 when he has finished. It's a track he likes and does well at. And like Bahrain it's a matter of time before he wins (again). That's all it is, not a knock toward Lewis as you seem to take it strangely.

@TenEightyOne good call on the forecast check a couple days ago. Especially if it gets really wet.
 
How, Lewis won hands down, FP1-3, quali and the race. Pretty conclusive of a dominant Lewis as he was for most of the 2015 year. Nico retired from behind, so what? Race winner qualified behind as well and beat Lewis, in the same car which Nico was as fast as Lewis in that year as well he could have beat his team mate.



Yeah I made note of those, but you more so carried on with career numbers and a point of argument. What? There weren't team mates for seven races. You know you pander on about how I'm out of touch yet were having a debate in regards to one of the most technical if not the most technical racing series on the planet. Where cars aren't very parallel in speeds to one another. Yet again you use career numbers as if they both drove equal machines. Quite silly. Especially when I believe one of those years Nico drove the FW 29 or 30 vs the championship winning MP4-23, and only once in the season was the car fast enough to in Nico's hands to finish ahead of Lewis (wasn't China).

If you perform consistently at tracks and finish in the top five in decent to good equipment and then you have other tracks where in the same equipment it's hit or miss, clearly this shows a track he's better and more comfortable at. Just cause he doesn't have 4, 5 or 6 wins at it doesn't mean he isn't good at it. And it's quite a pedantic train of thought to value you things is such a white and black way.

No I'm saying Nico is more consistent with equipment at this track then others, especially since 2010 to 2015 when he has finished. It's a track he likes and does well at. And like Bahrain it's a matter of time before he wins (again). That's all it is, not a knock toward Lewis as you seem to take it strangely.
He won only by small margin, the other two years were more comprehensive in terms of speed.

I've already mentioned head to head against Lewis already, 3-0 or 2-0 to Lewis whichever way you want to look at it. 2 out of 7 ahead is Nico's record against his teammates when both drivers finished. I don't think Nakajima in 2008 was driving MP4-23 when he finished ahead of Rosberg. Webber in 2006 and Wurz in 2007 were also likely driving very similar car to Nico when they finished ahead too.

2-2 from 2010 onwards when both finished so even then he is not ahead using your preferred head to head. It was his first victory in Bahrain, quite fortunate really with Sebastian's engine and Valterri smashing into side of Lewis's car, Nico didn't seem that quick in the race. Nico has a good chance of winning at any track given the car he has got, same for Lewis so a moot point. I'm just surprised how you are bigging up Nico at this track given his record, it's his track through and through as he regularly gets beaten by his teammates doesn't make much sense to me.
 
He won only by small margin, the other two years were more comprehensive in terms of speed.

I've already mentioned head to head against Lewis already, 3-0 or 2-0 to Lewis whichever way you want to look at it. 2 out of 7 ahead is Nico's record against his teammates when both drivers finished. I don't think Nakajima in 2008 was driving MP4-23 when he finished ahead of Rosberg. Webber in 2006 and Wurz in 2007 were also likely driving very similar car to Nico when they finished ahead too.

It was his first victory in Bahrain, quite fortunate really with Sebastian's engine and Valterri smashing into side of Lewis's car, Nico didn't seem that quick in the race. Nico has a good chance of winning at any track given the car he has got, same for Lewis so a moot point. I'm just surprised how you are bigging up Nico at this track given his record, it's his track through and through as he regularly gets beaten by his teammates doesn't make much sense to me. 2-2 from 2010 onwards when both finished so even then he is not ahead using your preferred head to head.

Okay that's great, Rosberg sucks, Lewis doesn't moving on. My viewpoint still stands you've made yours, hope you enjoy the race and I look forward to it myself. I'm going to move on since there is more interesting talking points on other portions of the forum. Thanks for your time we'll hash it out again in the future I'm sure. 👍
 
Anyways....

Not really sure where to put this but I found an interesting article. Not sure if it's backed up by anything but it was a study on finding the best F1 drivers of all time.

http://wtf1.co.uk/study-greatest-f1-driver/

It's a question that's been asked for a long time and will be forever onwards. In all honesty it's really up to opinion and personal views but this is a statistical approach to it. Let me know what you guys think.

Some mods let me know if I should give this its own thread or if it's alright over here, thanks.
 
Okay that's great, Rosberg sucks, Lewis doesn't moving on. My viewpoint still stands you've made yours, hope you enjoy the race and I look forward to it myself. I'm going to move on since there is more interesting talking points on other portions of the forum. Thanks for your time we'll hash it out again in the future I'm sure. 👍
Personally I think Nico is good at all tracks, that's why battle is usually so close in qualifying.
Anyways....

Not really sure where to put this but I found an interesting article. Not sure if it's backed up by anything but it was a study on finding the best F1 drivers of all time.

http://wtf1.co.uk/study-greatest-f1-driver/

It's a question that's been asked for a long time and will be forever onwards. In all honesty it's really up to opinion and personal views but this is a statistical approach to it. Let me know what you guys think.

Some mods let me know if I should give this its own thread or if it's alright over here, thanks.
That looks like a load of rubbish to be honest. :lol:

Mika Häkkinen did not make it in the top 50 and given the drivers on there, you do wonder how badly they're judging things.
 
Personally I think Nico is good at all tracks, that's why battle is usually so close in qualifying.

Yeah and there are certain tracks I feel it's more clear that he's better at than others as a driver. That's all I was saying in it's purest form the end. Anyways thanks for your comment.
 
Anyways....

Not really sure where to put this but I found an interesting article. Not sure if it's backed up by anything but it was a study on finding the best F1 drivers of all time.

http://wtf1.co.uk/study-greatest-f1-driver/

It's a question that's been asked for a long time and will be forever onwards. In all honesty it's really up to opinion and personal views but this is a statistical approach to it. Let me know what you guys think.

Some mods let me know if I should give this its own thread or if it's alright over here, thanks.
What a terrible list. First thing that pops into my head is how high Rosberg, Heidfield of all people, Brundle, Ricciardo and Frentzen are(second rate drivers no one would ever cosnider elite, and certainly not above Hakkinen who isn't on the list). You don't even have to go that far and it's immediately invalidated in my opinion by Schumacher only being ninth and Alonso being top 3.
 
Hey I'm just sharing what I found. I said everyone will take something different from it. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a method of how they rated drivers. If we saw that it could give a good idea of what everything means.
 
What a terrible list. First thing that pops into my head is how high Rosberg, Heidfield of all people, Brundle, Ricciardo and Frentzen are(second rate drivers no one would ever cosnider elite, and cretainly not abover Hakkinen who isn't on the list). You don't even have to go that far and it's immediately invalidated in my opinion by Schumacher only being ninth and Alonso being top 3.

How is Rosberg and Ricciardo second rate? Also why wouldn't Alonso deserve to be in the top 5?
 
Well it seems that depending on what site you go on that's reported that Study, the results are different. One site had Schumacher in 8th, Alonso in 5th or 6th and Mika Hakkinen on the list.

I agree with most rankings. Schumacher I agree with, Senna Prost, Clark and Fangio, I also agree with.

Putting drivers like Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel so high, I don't necessarily agree with, as their career is far from over, and they arguably have it easier than the likes of Fangio, Prost and Senna.
 
Well it seems that depending on what site you go on that's reported that Study, the results are different. One site had Schumacher in 8th, Alonso in 5th or 6th and Mika Hakkinen on the list.

I agree with most rankings. Schumacher I agree with, Senna Prost, Clark and Fangio, I also agree with.

Putting drivers like Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel so high, I don't necessarily agree with, as their career is far from over, and they arguably have it easier than the likes of Fangio, Prost and Senna.

Easier how? Other than Fangio, Prost and Senna on multiple occasions had the best car, or a car good enough to where they could squeeze out what they needed to win. The same could be said about the current top drivers. I feel people don't like rating the current best drivers highly because it's easy to do so and/or because they some how think currently that those drivers aren't deserving to be seen in the same light cause they're still racing.

But when is it okay? 10 or 20 years from now when they are long gone from the race seat?
 
Easier how? Other than Fangio, Prost and Senna on multiple occasions had the best car, or a car good enough to where they could squeeze out what they needed to win. The same could be said about the current top drivers.
So you think driving a car in the 80's is easier, or just as easy, as it seems today? It definitely isn't. Until I see a driver be as physically 'destroyed' as Senna was after his unbelievable drive in the rain at Interlagos whilst stuck in 6th gear, the argument that driving an F1 car today is easier than it was 20-30 years ago still stands.

I feel people don't like rating the current best drivers highly because it's easy to do so and/or because they some how think currently that those drivers aren't deserving to be seen in the same light cause they're still racing.
No, it's more to do with completely different eras of racing. The cars are completely different to drive, and the tracks are completely different as well, for better or for worse. Until we can drop Lewis Hamilton in a McLaren MP4/4 around 1988 Monaco, we will never now how he truly stacks up against the all time greats.

But when is it okay? 10 or 20 years from now when they are long gone from the race seat?
It's really up to whoever is classifying them. I'd rather do it after a career has closed, than whilst they're still racing, as they can either a) Become a whole lot better or b) Fall away into the background.

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Looks to be pouring down at the track.
 
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So you think driving a car in the 80's is easier, or just as easy, as it seems today? It definitely isn't. Until I see a driver be as physically 'destroyed' as Senna was after his unbelievable drive in the rain at Interlagos whilst stuck in 6th gear, the argument that driving an F1 car today is easier than it was 20-30 years ago still stands.

Where do I at all implicate that cars are or were easier or less demanding in the 80s compared to now? Or vice versa? Also what stands to you isn't universal, just so you know.


No, it's more to do with completely different eras of racing. The cars are completely different to drive, and the tracks are completely different as well, for better or for worse. Until he can drop Lewis Hamilton in a McLaren MP4/4 around 1988 Monaco, we will never now how he truly stacks up against the all time greats.

And until we build a time machine and put Prost back to his prime driving age, give him a Maseratti 250f and let him go around the original Nurb, we'll never know how well he stacks up to Fangio. See how silly that line of reasoning can get? Also Lewis has driven the MP4/4, send and email to McLaren and tell them to let him go balls to the wall with it to prove a point.

It's really up to whoever is classifying them. I'd rather do it after a career has closed, than whilst they're still racing, as they can either a) Become a whole lot better or b) Fall away into the background.

How can they get better or worse? I mean I could see a rookie getting better. But Lewis today is as good as he was in 07, more mature and knowledgeable about the car, but just as fast and talented. Same with Vettel and Alonso by extension. I sometimes think people over idolize. In the same way people found it strange that Jordan, coming back from retirement wasn't as strong as he was before going into it. I mean it could simply be that the crop of new players were just that good and perhaps better than him.

In a sport that demands perfection, and a similar climb (to f1) to idols you and I have from past eras. It could easily be possible that these drivers are just as every bit as good. The cars are physically demanding the lateral loads they pull, mind bending acceleration, the various ins and outs a driver must know and input while late brake passing another competitor. All while driving fast but saving tires and fuel and utilizing a strategy. The cars are technical aliens to their former selves. I always found the notion that they're easier silly because they may be easier in some areas but much more difficult in others.

When former F1 drivers drive the new cars and have a new found respect it shows the reality.
 
Where do I at all implicate that cars are or were easier or less demanding in the 80s compared to now?
Here;
Easier how?

Whether or not you interpreted my initial wording wrong, I don't know, but that certainly seemed like it.

Also what stands to you isn't universal, just so you know.
Same goes for you.

And until we build a time machine and put Prost back to his prime driving age, give him a Maseratti 250f and let him go around the original Nurb, we'll never know how well he stacks up to Fangio. See how silly that line of reasoning can get?
Which is why this is a pretty pointless argument until time travel becomes a thing, which will probably be never.

Also Lewis has driven the MP4/4, send and email to McLaren and tell them to let him go balls to the wall with it to prove a point.
I never said he hadn't. It's nearly common knowledge to know that both him and Alonso have driven the MP4/4, but not at balls to the wall pace, for obvious reasons.

How can they get better or worse?
Schumacher and his return to drive for Mercedes can be seen as hurting that legacy for going on too long. Senna in '91'92/'93, where he stepped up another level again, firther securing his status as a great of the sport, Raikonnen's drop off in recent years (not including these last few races where he has stepped up a bit), to name a few.

I always found the notion that they're easier silly because they may be easier in some areas but much more difficult in others.
I agree. I can't see someone like James Hunt dealing with all the dials and settings that a modern F1 car has.

When former F1 drivers drive the new cars and have a new found respect it shows the reality.
And again, in the few instances they have, it relates to something like all the dials, and steering wheel settings and the like. Until we get a '89 Prost, for example, to drive his car for that season and a 2016 Mercedes, at the same track, and a '16 Hamilton to do the same and compare, we'll never know. And the likelihood of that ever happening, is incredibly low.

But this has gone far off topic, and as you've stated in other threads, you're sick of the "drama" so it's best to put all these off-topic arguments to rest.
 
So, the 2016 Chinese Grand Prix fellas? Y'know, the topic at hand?

Well, it's peeing it down.

CgIr2BGWQAAUk8X.jpg:large


Hopefully we'll see some cars going out, but nobody seems particularly interested in doing so right now.
 
Here;


Whether or not you interpreted my initial wording wrong, I don't know, but that certainly seemed like it.

No that's me asking how they have it easier in likeness to Fangio, more so than the best current drivers.


Same goes for you.

Well sure, if I said something as an absolute but I didn't so not sure why you thought I made the same error, other than just to do so.

Which is why this is a pretty pointless argument until time travel becomes a thing, which will probably be never.

You never know, could happen.

I never said he hadn't. It's nearly common knowledge to know that both him and Alonso have driven the MP4/4, but not at balls to the wall pace, for obvious reasons.

Well yeah obviously, it was a facetious statement because it all seems silly in the end.

Schumacher and his return to drive for Mercedes can be seen as hurting that legacy for going on too long. Senna in '91'92/'93, where he stepped up another level again, firther securing his status as a great of the sport, Raikonnen's drop off in recent years (not including these last few races where he has stepped up a bit), to name a few.

Kimi I don't feel really had a drop off, just didn't have a car that suited him, putting him in the same scope as Jenson. A driver with a very limited range, but then I remember the various cars he drove that were quite different and wonder why these past couple years were so problematic.


I agree. I can't see someone like James Hunt dealing with all the dials and settings that a modern F1 car has.

Dials don't get you the ladies :sly:

And again, in the few instances they have, it relates to something like all the dials, and steering wheel settings and the like. Until we get a '89 Prost, for example, to drive his car for that season and a 2016 Mercedes, at the same track, and a '16 Hamilton to do the same and compare, we'll never know. And the likelihood of that ever happening, is incredibly low.

Well yeah, so why are we arguing if we agree?

But this has gone far off topic, and as you've stated in other threads, you're sick of the "drama" so it's best to put all these off-topic arguments to rest.

It's what happens each GP thread, slow wait for the action, which may not happen cause it looks like a flooded track from the twitter feed pictures I've seen. I think we'll see standing water, which means either limited or no running...

Hopefully quali isn't so wet.
 
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