2019 Formula One World ChampionshipFormula 1

[mustafur]

It's classic Ferrari focus on One car forget the other.

The amount of times they did this stuff to Kimi in the last few years was incredible, it's as if they hate the idea of getting points.

My theory is they have alot of dead weight they don't want to remove in that team that is hurting how the team operates in the race.

 

[niky]

I think the biggest issue was the strategy he was on. His first stint it seemed like they were going to stretch his tyres to the end and then a sprint on the softs... but then changed their minds so he was in no-Mans land.

Then for his second stint they just left him out to hold up Bottas for a lap and a half, and then, to give Vettel DRS? Like that would some how give Vettel a chance to catch the easily faster Mercedes?? They they didn’t even cover Gasleys fastest lap attempt. It was bizarre, Ferrari just giving no ***** about points what so ever

They did indeed seem at a loss about what to do about Max. But I think that very last DRS boost took the cake. No way was Vettel ever going to catch Bottas, let alone threaten him with an overtake, given how much worse the Ferraris were in terms of balance and tire usage over the race.

 

[Liquid]

They're still living 15 years in the past, it's not like Raikkonen is slow (look at how he's doing outside of Ferrari). They just believe the Schumacher style of making a team out of one driver is the way to win, but it's just not the case in the modern day.

It's also worth noting, and it has come up several times on the board, that the times Ferrari did have a two-car team they were never in contention for the championship or they were in contention and the lack of favouritism actually meant that neither driver won.

Pironi and Villeneuve
Tambay, Arnoux and Alboreto
Berger and Alboreto
Berger and Alesi

There are other factors they didn't win during those particular eras of course but the two-driver system surely was a part of it.

You could even throw Mansell and Prost in their for their 1990 season but Prost was within a whisker of the title if not for Senna's deliberate crashing. Even in some of the years they did win the drivers' title they were fortunate in some way; the intra-team rivalry between Mike Hawthorn & Peter Collins versus Luigi Musso is well known and Hawthorn only just squeaked the title by a single point

The fact is that Ferrari's greatest successes have come from times where they did favour one driver or build a team around one driver whether it was Ascari and Farina/Villoresi (two titles in a row), Fangio and Castellotti (Fangio wins in his only season with Ferrari), Lauda and Regazzoni/Reutemann (two titles in three years) or Schumacher and Barrichello (five titles in a row). They're going to keep that attitude as long as they can remain a team on the front two rows of the grid.

None of this is an endorsement of their policy but a reflection of what they do, why they do it and when it has worked.

 

[mustafur]

Yet their last Champion they didn't treat Massa as a 2nd driver until Kimi had a sizeable point advantage at the end and was the only one able to win the Championship.

 

[chromatic9]

Bottas did a good Lewis Hamilton impression of "being in a bad place" after the race.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

So it this thread going to be renamed to the Chinese GP thread? Or we will be discussing all future races in here now?

In my 13 years at GTP I have never seen an F1 race weekend without its own thread until this week (ironically, the momentous 1000th race). Just shows how far F1's popularity has fallen

 

[DesertPenguin]

So it this thread going to be renamed to the Chinese GP thread? Or we will be discussing all future races in here now?

In my 13 years at GTP I have never seen an F1 race weekend without its own thread until this week (ironically, the momentous 1000th race). Just shows how far F1's popularity has fallen

Seriously. Of all races right?

 

[Dotini]

Seriously. Of all races right?

When the tide goes out, it's easy to see those swimming without bathing suits. This is the worst start to a GP season in memory. The steamroller crushes all. Ferrari and Red Bull crap out. Preseason testing was BS, fake news, wishful thinking or propaganda. After a thousand races, Formula One is clearly worn out.

 

[baldgye]

So it this thread going to be renamed to the Chinese GP thread? Or we will be discussing all future races in here now?

In my 13 years at GTP I have never seen an F1 race weekend without its own thread until this week (ironically, the momentous 1000th race). Just shows how far F1's popularity has fallen

To be fair, might be better to have one thread anyway, if the last few seasons are anything to go by.
Keeps all the bickering in one place

 

[NotThePrez]

So, I was discussing the Kvyat/Norris/Sainz incident with a friend, and was curious to see what others thought of the crash (and to breath some life into this thread).



The way I see it, Sainz was trying to push in between Kvyat & Norris, a move which I don't think would've worked no matter how you slice it. Kvyat, who was still ahead at corner exit, couldn't give Sainz any more room due to spinning his wheels, Norris had a slightly better corner exit and was trying to return to the track, and Sainz wasn't giving Norris a whole lotta room and took too long to back down from the move he was making. I think it was a textbook racing incident, but if anything, I think Sainz could've been a bit more cautious and backed down a hair. I'm also pretty sure that both Macca's would eventually outrun Kvyat. The person I was discussing with thinks that Kvyat deserves his harsh penalty due to previous transgressions, which I don't agree with. Thoughts?

 

[GroupB]

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...ses-media-poor-journalism-ferrari-team-orders

 

[NoirAntares]

Pierre Gasly's been disappointing to start the season, dismal if you start looking at the lap time differences between him and Max and him to the best of the midfield. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I wonder if the RB15 was built around Max which is why he's having such a hard time getting used to it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Pierre Gasly's been disappointing to start the season, dismal if you start looking at the lap time differences between him and Max and him to the best of the midfield. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I wonder if the RB15 was built around Max which is why he's having such a hard time getting used to it.

I think it's easy to give him that benefit for now. We know that Ricciardio is fast but that he's struggling to adjust to the Renault. Going very fast in an unfamiliar F1 car is (relatively) easy for any F1 driver, making up those last few tenths over three miles by holding the car at its limit without spinning off... that requires learning about the car and gaining experience in it. I think Gasly still has a chance of getting there.

 

[Liquid]

Yet their last Champion they didn't treat Massa as a 2nd driver until Kimi had a sizeable point advantage at the end and was the only one able to win the Championship.

It's not literally true for every single season in Ferrari's history but it is a significant part for the majority of their history.

Even then, why did Räikkönen win the title unnoticed? Because the two McLarens couldn't appease two drivers playing favourites.

 

[baldgye]

It's not literally true for every single season in Ferrari's history but it is a significant part for the majority of their history.

Even then, why did Räikkönen win the title unnoticed? Because the two McLarens couldn't appease two drivers playing favourites.

With the launching of Lewis into F1, Alonso fighting for his third title and Spy-gate, the news outlets didn't have the space for anything but Mclaren drama!

 

[NoirAntares]

I think it's easy to give him that benefit for now. We know that Ricciardio is fast but that he's struggling to adjust to the Renault. Going very fast in an unfamiliar F1 car is (relatively) easy for any F1 driver, making up those last few tenths over three miles by holding the car at its limit without spinning off... that requires learning about the car and gaining experience in it. I think Gasly still has a chance of getting there.

If it was another team, I'd honestly be more hopeful for Gasly, but this is the same team that dumped their podium-scoring driver down to Toro Rosso after a couple of bad races. I see Canada becoming the make or break race for him this year if he keeps this up.

 

[C-ZETA]

This is the worst start to a GP season in memory.

It's not been a great omen for the rest of the year, sure, but let's be honest...it's not 2004.

(Anyone who remembers 1992 wanna pitch in at this point as well?)

 

[baldgye]

If it was another team, I'd honestly be more hopeful for Gasly, but this is the same team that dumped their podium-scoring driver down to Toro Rosso after a couple of bad races. I see Canada becoming the make or break race for him this year if he keeps this up.

They also have a very impressive new jr driver!

 

[NoirAntares]

They also have a very impressive new jr driver!

I'd keep Gasly in RBR for the year and just let Albon settle into F1 in his rookie year, kinda like what Charles did last year. If Gasly still sucks and Albon ends up scoring majority of STR's points by the end of the year, then it's a no-brainer.

It's keep his seat at Red Bull or bust for Gasly. Ticktum is itching for a seat.

 

[mustafur]

There is a big gap between the Top drivers and the midfeild though, if Gasly doesn't succeed I'll be surprised if Albon could, especially when you look at the pedigree of both of them.

Gasly says his biggest problem is he can't put the power down as the car is too twitchy, Might explain the reason why his pace is absolute rubbish, but we will see.

He is closer to the midfeild then his team mate at current.

 

[NoirAntares]

There is a big gap between the Top drivers and the midfeild though, if Gasly doesn't succeed I'll be surprised if Albon could, especially when you look at the pedigree of both of them.

The Toro Rosso is a bottom top 10 car right now but at least Albon's being consistent, even after already doing a pitlane start. The Red Bull is easily 3rd best but Gasly isn't doing well enough on Saturdays so he's always driving on the back foot on Sundays, and his pace isn't exactly good there either.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Albon's being consistent, even after already doing a pitlane start.

This is why I think Kvyat's under threat - he's showing that he hasn't lost his talent for losing a race on the first lap. If he'd kept his neck in he could have been in the points too.

Gasly isn't doing well enough on Saturdays so he's always driving on the back foot on Sundays, and his pace isn't exactly good there either.

I still think that's down to learning where the "edge" of the car is, if it continues for three/four races after Spain he's in big trouble with Marko.

 

[NoirAntares]

I have to mention Esteban Ocon and how Merc's success is hurting him in the long run, Bottas is driving his best year yet and Russell has been impressing in his Mercedes tests. A seat for next year all but looks impossible unless Williams becomes a Merc B-team.

 

[PeterJB]

The midfield is marginally closer and mixed up a bit, but still not able to fight for podiums. Ferrari have basically missed their chance to beat Mercedes; even if Vettel does get his arse in gear it would appear the car isn't fast enough anymore. That double-stacked pit-stop was a real kick in the crotch to all the other teams. I'm not gonna buy it when Lewis constantly complains that he has no grip or whatever and may only qualify 2nd and the media's assuming that Ferrari will be faster at certain circuits, and then lo and behold, even if they are faster they mess up in the race and hand the victory to Lewis. Red Bull were largely dominant in the V10 era, but they still made mistakes from time to time, and weren't always guaranteed victory. You could go into most races with any one of five drivers capable of getting pole or the victory rather than watching Lewis sail off into the distance.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Well look, it's Baku next and we've had two years in a row of what we expected to happen not happening. If any race is needed to make people excited about the season, it's Azerbaijan.

 

[NoirAntares]

Dear god if we get another SC, please don't have debris lying around for the leader to drive over on the restart. Bottas not winning Baku last year broke my heart so bad.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Dear god if we get another SC, please don't have debris lying around for the leader to drive over on the restart. Bottas not winning Baku last year broke my heart so bad.

The debris on the track was caused on the restart when Magnussen shoved Gasly into the wall. It wasn't ignored by the marshals.

 

[baldgye]

Well look, it's Baku next and we've had two years in a row of what we expected to happen not happening. If any race is needed to make people excited about the season, it's Azerbaijan.

To be fair, Bahrain was a cracker.
China was the only surprisingly dull race, Australia is usually dull. So I don't see why Baku and indeed the rest of the season wont be as good as last year, though I'm guessing Lewis is going to need to pull out an insane quali lap at Singapore or repeat Hockenhiem

 

[TenEightyOne]

Dear god if we get another SC, please don't have debris lying around for the leader to drive over on the restart. Bottas not winning Baku last year broke my heart so bad.

As @Jimlaad pointed out that debris wasn't there during the SC. It was crap luck for Bottas though.

 

[NoirAntares]

China was the only surprisingly dull race

Someone might have the answer for this, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around why a track with such a long back straight didn't have as much DRS assisted overtakes as Bahrain, it's not like running close to someone through T12-T13 was going to put you out of shape so bad even DRS won't get you ahead.

Move the activation point further back in China next year maybe?