2019 Virgin Australia Supercars ChampionshipTouring Cars 

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05XR8
Charges of DJRTP team orders breach coming up.

:rolleyes:

Also, Giz saying the #12 has been the sacrificial lamb all year. I think it's been that way since Scott joined the team. Anyway, like T8 haven't done the same things...
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Didn't Supercars clarify that Team orders are legal after the Whincup and SVG swap? I'm pretty sure the 12 breached the 5 cars rule and that's all 👍.

I don't necessarily agree with how things played out but I'm pretty sure I know why DJRTP did it and what would have happened if they didn't go that route. Supercars should just drop it or they'll end up looking worse when all the previous examples are brought up.
 
05XR8
Also, Giz saying the #12 has been the sacrificial lamb all year. I think it's been that way since Scott joined the team. Anyway, like T8 haven't done the same things...
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Exactly. If there's any team out there who knows a thing or two about sacrificial lambs, it's Triple 8. Lowndes was one for years.
FPV MIC
I'm pretty sure the 12 breached the 5 cars rule and that's all 👍.
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The whole radio communication between Fabs and his engineer was strange. Find it hard to believe that the engineer didn't know where the incident was. Don't they have TV's in the DJR garage? :confused: Think the drive-thru penalty is probably sufficient enough though.
 
Spacegoat
The whole radio communication between Fabs and his engineer was strange. Find it hard to believe that the engineer didn't know where the incident was. Don't they have TV's in the DJR garage? :confused: Think the drive-thru penalty is probably sufficient enough though.
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They knew exactly where the incident was. It was code for ''save fuel'' :p.
 
For all they knew, the impact was so forceful that it flung debris halfway across the circuit.
 
Surely everyone can tell they were trying to hold up SVG?
 
turbofozz
Surely everyone can tell they were trying to hold up SVG?
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Yes. I just didn't like how the communication said they didn't know where the safety car was. Say what?

it was silly to be that far back. I could see if Fabs slowed to 80, but that seemed like the road speed limit of 60km/h. Since the #12 was "overheating", would it have been best to pull over, coast, hurry into the pits? Should be interesting if data is collected/reviewed.

Edit: Scrap what I just posted
https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/10/14/stewards-summary-djrtp-team-orders-charge/

Didn't Seamer or someone up top, say team orders by T8, was fine to execute?
 
05XR8
Didn't Seamer or someone up top, say team orders by T8, was fine to execute?
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It probably would have been Michael Massi, but I'm not 100% sure on that. It was definitely stated after NZ last year that the rules were changed at the start of 2018 to remove the word 'team'.

However, Speedcafe.com has since sought clarification which has resulted in the championship confirming that the rules were amended prior to the start of the season.

The wording of last year’s 24.1.2 rule included the word ‘team’ among the parties that are restricted from giving team orders.

As a result, Triple Eight’s actions at Pukekohe were not in breach of regulations with Supercars confirming that “these parties (in Rule 24.1.2) do not include Teams or Drivers giving or receiving instructions within their own Teams.”
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https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/11/16/supercars-clarifies-team-orders-rule/

turbofozz
Surely everyone can tell they were trying to hold up SVG?
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Of course it was... and we all know what would have happened if they hadn't done so ;).

There's far too much win-at-all-cost and gamesmanship at play these days, and not much left of a sporting code.

Edit:
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24.1.1 Is just a description of what amounts to a team order, not what can or can't be done.

24.1.2 Is the important one that descibes who can or can't impose an order, and it's the one that got T8 out of trouble (rightly so as the rule book stands).

Neither states what's allowed or disallowed :crazy:.
 
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FPV MIC
It probably would have been Michael Massi, but I'm not 100% sure on that. It was definitely stated after NZ last year that the rules were changed at the start of 2018 to remove the word 'team'.


https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/11/16/supercars-clarifies-team-orders-rule/


Of course it was... and we all know what would have happened if they hadn't done so ;).

There's far too much win-at-all-cost and gamesmanship at play these days, and not much left of a sporting code.
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Winning by any means necessary, regardless of whether it's moral or not.
 
CLowndes888
Winning by any means necessary, regardless of whether it's moral or not.
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Happens both sides of the fence ;).

I even mentioned this:
FPV MIC
There's far too much win-at-all-cost and gamesmanship at play these days, and not much left of a sporting code.
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That applies to all of them!... and if they all acted respectfully (yeah right :crazy:) we wouldn't see this sort of stuff.
 
FPV MIC
Happens both sides of the fence ;).

I even mentioned this:
That applies to all of them!... and if they all acted respectfully (yeah right :crazy:) we wouldn't see this sort of stuff.
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That's what I'm saying...
 
T8 gave team orders just recently and it was heard on the race broadcast. I clearly heard Whincup's engineer tell him to stay behind SVG. I even posted about it here when it happened.
 
L8 Apex
Thus ends the "Not Just a Holden vs. Ford Series" experiment.
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As someone who doesn't and didn't follow (V8) Supercars closely, I only learned about Nissan and Mercedes having participated from Forza. I don't have warm feelings about the Altima as I had them way too often as rental cars and they are on the same - very high - level of boredom as the Camry (I'm sorry if I hurt someone's feelings), I could much rather see the GT-R adjusted and participate like the Mustang.

On the other hand, just looking at some footage and the Forza model, I can't help thinking that the E class was a perfect fit alongside the Holden and Ford armada. In fact, I think the 5 series should have joined them. If I will win lots of money on the lottery, I'm gonna bring BMW to VASC (of course, I should first buy a lottery ticket :) )
 
TheHun99
As someone who doesn't and didn't follow (V8) Supercars closely, I only learned about Nissan and Mercedes having participated from Forza. I don't have warm feelings about the Altima as I had them way too often as rental cars and they are on the same - very high - level of boredom as the Camry (I'm sorry if I hurt someone's feelings), I could much rather see the GT-R adjusted and participate like the Mustang.

On the other hand, just looking at some footage and the Forza model, I can't help thinking that the E class was a perfect fit alongside the Holden and Ford armada. In fact, I think the 5 series should have joined them. If I will win lots of money on the lottery, I'm gonna bring BMW to VASC (of course, I should first buy a lottery ticket :) )
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The Mercedes wasn't official though. And I think the GT-R is too much for this series. The current car is on it's way out anyway.
 
I'm calling it: Heimgartner to be in the top 5 all year next year.

Shame Nissan pulled out and not much, next to nil, was done to help NISMO when they joined.
TheHun99
As someone who doesn't and didn't follow (V8) Supercars closely, I only learned about Nissan and Mercedes having participated from Forza. I don't have warm feelings about the Altima as I had them way too often as rental cars and they are on the same - very high - level of boredom as the Camry (I'm sorry if I hurt someone's feelings), I could much rather see the GT-R adjusted and participate like the Mustang.

On the other hand, just looking at some footage and the Forza model, I can't help thinking that the E class was a perfect fit alongside the Holden and Ford armada. In fact, I think the 5 series should have joined them. If I will win lots of money on the lottery, I'm gonna bring BMW to VASC (of course, I should first buy a lottery ticket :) )
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As a bit of good news for the E63, it did win 2 races(actually won on performance and not gifted/lucky wins). Downside was, Mercedes Australia didn't want the brand to be associated with V8 Supercars(Commodore & FAlcon). However, Mercedes HQ gave Erebus their blessing, along with having HWA build the engines.

Had Mercedes Australia taken the blinders off, I have no doubt Erebus would have made those cars perform much better.

Now, we're back to just Fords and Holdens. I still feel Chrysler should have joined when the 300C was the pace car. It's not too late.
 
It’s sad that Kelly Racing have to cut down their program from four cars to two but I’m excited to see how they perform with the Mustang. Although we lose that tiny bit of variety we had left in the field, at least there will be a little more balance with KR fielding Mustangs instead of Commodores.
 
05XR8
I'm calling it: Heimgartner to be in the top 5 all year next year.

Shame Nissan pulled out and not much, next to nil, was done to help NISMO when they joined.

As a bit of good news for the E63, it did win 2 races(actually won on performance and not gifted/lucky wins). Downside was, Mercedes Australia didn't want the brand to be associated with V8 Supercars(Commodore & FAlcon). However, Mercedes HQ gave Erebus their blessing, along with having HWA build the engines.

Had Mercedes Australia taken the blinders off, I have no doubt Erebus would have made those cars perform much better.

Now, we're back to just Fords and Holdens. I still feel Chrysler should have joined when the 300C was the pace car. It's not too late.
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Has Heimgartner been confirmed at KR for 2020? I don't recall seeing that anywhere.

Also, I wouldn't assume, if he is at KR, that he'll be a consistent top 5. The team (including Andre) would have to get their heads around a new toy & as we've seen this year, a Ford doesn't guarantee you a top 5. Fabian is a perfect example. He has a copy of the best car in the Championship & yet his results aren't filled with silver 2nd place trophies.
 
R1600Turbo
The Mercedes wasn't official though. And I think the GT-R is too much for this series. The current car is on it's way out anyway.
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I know the Merc wasn't official but that doesn't make it less awesome, in fact, Erebus seems to have done a decent job by themselves, hats off.
As far as Nissan goes, I mentioned the GT-R as in terms of spirit of VASC I think it would have fitted better than the Altima given that they allowed the Mustang (I still can't get used to that shape though...)

05XR8
As a bit of good news for the E63, it did win 2 races(actually won on performance and not gifted/lucky wins). Downside was, Mercedes Australia didn't want the brand to be associated with V8 Supercars(Commodore & FAlcon). However, Mercedes HQ gave Erebus their blessing, along with having HWA build the engines.

Had Mercedes Australia taken the blinders off, I have no doubt Erebus would have made those cars perform much better.

Now, we're back to just Fords and Holdens. I still feel Chrysler should have joined when the 300C was the pace car. It's not too late.
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Thanks for the info on the E63, pretty good stuff. The 300C could have been a good fit, too, although the Dodge Charger looks better - I guess the Dodge isn't marketed in Australia though.
 
Pete05
Has Heimgartner been confirmed at KR for 2020? I don't recall seeing that anywhere.

Also, I wouldn't assume, if he is at KR, that he'll be a consistent top 5. The team (including Andre) would have to get their heads around a new toy & as we've seen this year, a Ford doesn't guarantee you a top 5. Fabian is a perfect example. He has a copy of the best car in the Championship & yet his results aren't filled with silver 2nd place trophies.
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Not officially confirmed.

Rumors are Simona going back to Europe(hope not), JAcobson out of the seat. UNless Andre loses Planet Fitness, I can't see him not getting that seat. Especially, with him having done an excellent job at KR VASC and KR TCR programs.

About the Top 5, Wil Davison came on strong at the start and is still showing speed. Holdsworth had to come to grips with being back in a Falcon, I'll give him that, but he's been quick lately.

Are KR going to screw up the package? I don't know. They'd have to be nowhere to not be competitive and/or have both cars in the 10 next year.
I won't deny it's going to be tough in the top 10. Current championship positions(in order):


SM, SVG, FC, CM, JW, DR, CW, NP, WD, LH

I'm still going to call it. ;)
 
Simona is already confirmed as Porsche's Formula E test driver; maybe she'll parlay that into a GT gig for them in IMSA, Blancpain and/or WEC.
 
I finally found the article that states team orders are legal (and surprise surprise I was right that 24.1.1 is the definition :dopey:)

Following the controversy, Supercars has clarified to media that team orders are in fact legal, provided they are given by a team member, as opposed to a third party.

The relevant rules in the Supercars Operations Manual state:

According to Supercars’ clarification, 24.1.1 outlines “the definition of the term ‘Team Orders’, hence use of the word ‘means’ to start the rule”.

24.1.2 is then “the execution of the rule and to whom and how it applies”.

The clarification added: “The specific Parties noted in D24.1.2 cannot instruct any Driver or Team, either verbal or otherwise the effect of which may interfere with a race result.

“These parties do not include Teams or Drivers giving or receiving instructions within their own Teams.”
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Source: https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supercars-clarifies-team-orders-regulations/

Case closed (maybe) :D
 
FPV MIC
I finally found the article that states team orders are legal (and surprise surprise I was right that 24.1.1 is the definition :dopey:)



Source: https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supercars-clarifies-team-orders-regulations/

Case closed (maybe) :D
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If that is the case & the interpretation of such, why the hell do they need to have a sit down when they get to the Goldie?

It can’t be about Fabian doing his snail impression - he paid for that with a drive-thru. In fact, I was only talking to some guys earlier today about that.
Supercars were so sure he broke a rule, they gave the PLP instead of holding off for a post race investigation.

The whole damn saga is almost too much to bare.
 
Pete05
If that is the case & the interpretation of such, why the hell do they need to have a sit down when they get to the Goldie?

It can’t be about Fabian doing his snail impression - he paid for that with a drive-thru. In fact, I was only talking to some guys earlier today about that.
Supercars were so sure he broke a rule, they gave the PLP instead of holding off for a post race investigation.

The whole damn saga is almost too much to bare.
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I have no idea. Team orders have been used so many times previously it's a joke. Yet this is what it's all about?

Rule D24.1 prohibits Team Orders and provides that an instruction to a Driver or Team member, either verbal or otherwise the effect of which may interfere with a race result is a Team Order.
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According to their own previous statement D24.1 says team orders are okay :dunce:.

Yeah I agree, this is another drama that's too much.
 
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Regarding a couple comments in there, is Simona confirmed to be leaving? I can't see her joining the Sydney team or Team 18, but maybe WAU?
 
FPV MIC
Finally some good news in Supercarland.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/10/18/team-18-confirms-purchase-of-second-rec/

I think Todd Hazelwood would be a good fit for this seat. He could learn a lot from Frosty, probably wouldn't be too expensive, is familiar with the ZB, and it keeps a good young bloke going.
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With you on Hazelwood. Think he would fit in nicely there. 👍

Guess we'll know for sure by the end of the today (or maybe not depending on what happens with the GRM/Boost Mobile thing) but I'm trying to work out how many cars will be on the grid next year. Kelly Racing are down to two. While Tekno, BJR, and now Team 18 are all expanding to two entries. So, 25 cars at this point?
 
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