26 cars lined up for 2010 & bile from Bernie

[kikie]

Three new names - and conditions - on 2010 entry list

The FIA published the entry list for the 2010 championship on Friday, with three new names - Campos Grand Prix, Team US F1 and Manor Grand Prix - joining the existing 10 Formula One teams.

However, the inclusion of McLaren, BMW Sauber, Renault, Toyota and Brawn is subject to those teams lifting the conditions they placed on their entries, with discussions on the matter to be concluded by next Friday, June 19. The FIA will continue to assess other possible new entries in the meantime.

The three new teams are all expected to run under the FIA’s voluntary budget cap and all have three-year engine contracts in place with Cosworth, who will return to Formula One racing for the first time since 2006. Of the existing teams, Toro Rosso and Brawn do not have an engine supplier confirmed on the FIA’s entry list.

Team US F1 is led by Formula One veterans Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson, whose US-based concern hopes to prove ‘that American technology, American drivers and the American competitive spirit can compete and win on the F1 global stage’. British-born Windsor is a former Williams team manager, while American engineer Anderson is an ex-F1 technical director. They are based in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Campos Grand Prix is headed by former Formula One driver Adrian Campos, whose Spanish Campos Racing team currently compete in Formula Three, having previously enjoyed success in GP2, winning the 2008 team championship. Campos Grand Prix will have headquarters in Madrid, plus a technical centre at Campos Racing's current base in Valencia. Its car will be built by renowned Italian chassis builders Dallara.

The surprise name on the FIA’s list is Manor Grand Prix. British team Manor Motorsport was founded in 1990 by former single-seater champion John Booth and over the years has fielded drivers such as Kimi Raikkonen and Lewis Hamilton in the likes of Formula Renault and Formula Three.

Manor Motorsport currently race in the Formula Three Euroseries and their F1 entry sees Booth link up with former Simtek F1 team owner Nick Wirth, whose company Wirth Research Limited will build the new team's cars.

The FIA statement in full:
2010 FIA Formula One World Championship Entry List

Following the completion of the applications process for teams to compete in the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship, the following teams have been confirmed.

TEAM / CONSTRUCTOR
SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO / FERRARI
SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO / STR TBA
RED BULL RACING / RBR RENAULT
AT&T WILLIAMS / WILLIAMS TOYOTA
FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM / FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
CAMPOS GRAND PRIX / CAMPOS COSWORTH
MANOR GRAND PRIX / MANOR COSWORTH
TEAM US F1 / TEAM US F1 COSWORTH
VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES* / McLAREN MERCEDES
BMW SAUBER F1 TEAM* / BMW SAUBER
RENAULT F1 TEAM* / RENAULT
PANASONIC TOYOTA RACING* / TOYOTA
BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM* / BRAWN TBA

*These five teams have submitted conditional entries.The FIA has invited them to lift those conditions following further discussions to be concluded not later than close of business on Friday 19 June.

The maximum number of cars permitted to enter the 2010 Championship has been increased to 26, two being entered by each competitor. Pending completion of the discussions referred to above, further due diligence is currently taking place on other potential entries.

Link

 

[Ardius]

I think it's quite clear that for Max, it's not about bringing the most elite entities of motorsport to F1, but any team that suits his fancy,even if it's only "somewhat reputable" gets prioritized. Litespeed even prefers to use another name for crying out loud! (A name they don't even have the rights to...)

They do have the rights to the name....

And Litespeed always had the intention of using the Lotus name, as Gascoyne has mentioned to the BBC. The Litespeed team is made up of ex-Team Lotus members and they had always planned of making the step up to F1 at some point.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I still can't believe how many people assume Max Mosley was the only person who had any say in picking the teams.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

They do have the rights to the name....

And Litespeed always had the intention of using the Lotus name, as Gascoyne has mentioned to the BBC. The Litespeed team is made up of ex-Team Lotus members and they had always planned of making the step up to F1 at some point.

Being former employees of a company puts you as far from permission to use the trademarks of the former company as you can get, as the Lotus Group itself has testified...

But the point I made was, if they truly were reputable enough, they wouldn't need to use the name of a famous marquee because they'd have built their own reputation. Thus, my argument stands firm.

I still can't believe how many people assume Max Mosley was the only person who had any say in picking the teams.

Max wasn't literally sitting by himself going through the entries over the weekend...duh! He may as well, 'cause what he says goes anyways. It bodes well with his conqueror attitude to fill F1 with neutered teams who will thank him for letting them lick his toes (Manor) over teams with actual history and enough pride to show him some backbone (Prodrive).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Max wasn't literally sitting by himself going through the entries over the weekend...duh! He may as well, 'cause what he says goes anyways. It bodes well with his conqueror attitude to fill F1 with neutered teams who will thank him for letting them lick his toes (Manor) over teams with actual history and enough pride to show him some backbone (Prodrive).

While Mosley did actually make the final decision, it seems he was actually pretty hands-off until then. This aritcle about N.Technology's reaction to the verdict details how the process of choosing the teams came about:

The FIA issued documents after publishing the entry list on Friday detailing the process by which they selected the new teams for 2010.

"We have been provided with accounts, contracts, multi-year business plans and other supporting material," said the FIA statement. "On the technical side we have asked for a thorough description of their capability, key staff, project plans, capital assets (present and planned for), organisational charts, and so on.

"Where there are key sub-contractors required we have asked to see contracts and letters of intent. This extends to the sponsorship side, where plans and any descriptions of existing relationships) are required. In all these aspects we have requested evidence that substantiates any claim in the teams' plans.

"In the background to these evaluations, where key individuals were identified on the funding side, our forensic accountancy advisors have run reputational checks, alongside the checking of factual data supplied.

"Once we had formed an opinion of the serious contenders we asked them to come to London to be questioned face to face by the due diligence team. Then a short summary report on the top five was sent to the FIA President."

Mosley did cast the final vote, but he only chose from a third of the total entrants. Now, it could be that Prodrive missed the final cut because Mosley doesn't want anyone standing up to him, but it could also be that the FIA remembers the way Prodrive were granted the additional entry for 2008 but failed to show up on the gird. Even with the war of words at the moment you can understand why the FIA might be hesitant to include such a team on the grid if their last attempt died before it could even get started.

 

[Ardius]

Being former employees of a company puts you as far from permission to use the trademarks of the former company as you can get, as the Lotus Group itself has testified...

But the point I made was, if they truly were reputable enough, they wouldn't need to use the name of a famous marquee because they'd have built their own reputation. Thus, my argument stands firm.

I would have thought you would take the time to research but I guess not, the owners of Litespeed have the rights to the "Team Lotus" name. The Lotus F1 team was always a seperate entity from the Lotus Cars company and the rights to the F1 team name were bought off David Hunt by Litespeed.
Lotus Group do have a case, however, its rather limited seeing as the name to the team is indeed owned by Litespeed.
I'm not so sure Lotus Group are even contesting the legality, as its been reported they are both working with Litespeed and also that they are taking legal action, all a bit confusing frankly.

And I think the Lotus name is big enough to fill in for at least one major name such as McLaren. Maybe not good enough to fill in for the likes of Ferrari but its certainly a big Grand Prix name.

And, they do have experience too as I've already mentioned, they have several ex-F1 personnel plus Mike Gascoyne, all quite "reputable" if you ask me. Perhaps Litespeed as an organisation isn't "reputable" but neither is USGPE....

 

[Metar]

Litespeed is one of the most reputable of the entries, I'd think. Yeah, they lack the facilities at the moment, but they've been hiring, and they're headed by serious F1 men.

 

[orimarc]

CAMPOS GRAND PRIX / CAMPOS COSWORTH

I'll quote myself:

The are rumors that Pedro Martínez De La Rosa and Giorgio Pantano could be the drivers.
Thinking about it...a Spanish F1 Team, with Alonso, De La Rosa and Javi Villa or Roldan Rodriguez or Marc Gené (If Ferrari retires) as test driver? Sounds good. They've got the technology, they've got the tracks (Catalunya, Jerez, Monteblanco), they've got the cojones...

I think I came in red and yellow. Strange.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think while they would like to have the Spanish All-Stars, Super Aguri demonstrated that a home team effort isn't always the best way forwards. The rumours surrounding Pantano probably started after he commented he was aiming for a Campos driver; I wouldn't be too surpised if Campos took someone like de la Rosa alongside Romain Grosjean or Vitaly Petrov. Both drive for Barwa Addax - formerly Campos - and both are pretty quick; Grosjean won the 2008 GP2 Asia series while Petrov has gone from finishing 28th in his first season of GP2 to leading the current championship. With Formula One undergoing a renaissance in Eastern Europe following the rise of Robert Kubica, Petrov would be a goldmine to new teams looking for potential sposors, especially if his season follows its current arc.

 

[Metar]

Super Aguri demonstrated that a home team effort isn't always the best way forwards.

In what way did they demonstrate this?

By consistently out-performing the factory Honda team (SA07 and RA07 were both developments of the RA06), scoring the first Honda-engined points of 2007, and then following it up by a 6th-place finish that involved passing the reigning World Champion's McLaren? As far as team-work was concerned, Aguri put on a fantastic display considering their Spyker-like budget, and were the top of the backmarker-privateerish-teams for quite a while; until it was discovered that their sponsor SS United was, in fact, a scam, they were quite competitive. Afterwards, you can't judge a team's competitiveness if it's budget is pretty much zero because of the debt the scam left them with.

 

[PeterJB]

In what way did they demonstrate this?

By consistently out-performing the factory Honda team (SA07 and RA07 were both developments of the RA06), scoring the first Honda-engined points of 2007, and then following it up by a 6th-place finish that involved passing the reigning World Champion's McLaren? As far as team-work was concerned, Aguri put on a fantastic display considering their Spyker-like budget, and were the top of the backmarker-privateerish-teams for quite a while; until it was discovered that their sponsor SS United was, in fact, a scam, they were quite competitive. Afterwards, you can't judge a team's competitiveness if it's budget is pretty much zero because of the debt the scam left them with.

I think he means 2006 with Sato, Ide and Yamamoto.

 

[Metar]

In what was effectively a 2002 Arrows car?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

In what way did they demonstrate this?

Yuji Ide and Sakon Yamamoto. They were the only Japanese drivers who could get Super Licences, but there were other, better-suited drivers out there who could have done more for Super Aguri.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Pardon the double-post again, but breaking news: Lola have officially withdrawn their entry.

Lola withdraws F1 entry application

By Simon Strang - Wednesday, June 17th 2009, 12:36 GMT

Lola has withdrawn its application to enter Formula 1. The announcement follows the UK racing constructors' failure to receive a place on the initial 2010 entry list.

In a statement released on Tuesday the company said: "Lola F1 Team Ltd has today advised the FIA of the decision to withdraw its application to enter the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship.

"Significant financial investment has been made in producing its 2010 contender and the FIA had requested that the Lola F1 Team remain in a state of readiness for a possible future entry.

"Lola F1 Team has thanked the FIA for giving its application to enter the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship serious consideration."

Lola boss Martin Birrane told AUTOSPORT last weekend that the company was already well down the line with the design of its 2010 contender, but that it had needed time to absorb the news of its failure to make the initial list before making a final decision on its future.

"We've had our model in the tunnel for the last week, and we have a proper car now," said Birrane.

"We've had a lot of people working on it for seven weeks, with a lot of input from people with current experience in Formula 1."

 

[TheCracker]

That's unfortunate. Maybe they'll sell the design to one of the other 'successful entry' teams?

 

[nissan tuner]

In what was effectively a 2002 Arrows car?

Exactly. I also don't think Ide and Yamamoto was as bad as everyone says they were but in 2006, both drivers were were incredibly inexperienced with F1 machines.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's unfortunate. Maybe they'll sell the design to one of the other 'successful entry' teams?

I don't think so. US-F1 have had their designs ready for over a month, while Campos are outsourcing to Dallara and Nick Wirth is designing Manor's.

 

[Metar]

I don't think so. US-F1 have had their designs ready for over a month, while Campos are outsourcing to Dallara and Nick Wirth is designing Manor's.

Campos outsourcing to Dallara raises my brows, though. The Dallara folks have been behind the F60 (and most previous Ferraris), as they're the ones Ferrari contracted the early RD stages to. It's quite promising.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, given the F60's debut and early races, at least Dallara will know what they're doing.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

I would have thought you would take the time to research but I guess not, the owners of Litespeed have the rights to the "Team Lotus" name. The Lotus F1 team was always a seperate entity from the Lotus Cars company and the rights to the F1 team name were bought off David Hunt by Litespeed.
Lotus Group do have a case, however, its rather limited seeing as the name to the team is indeed owned by Litespeed.
I'm not so sure Lotus Group are even contesting the legality, as its been reported they are both working with Litespeed and also that they are taking legal action, all a bit confusing frankly.

And I think the Lotus name is big enough to fill in for at least one major name such as McLaren. Maybe not good enough to fill in for the likes of Ferrari but its certainly a big Grand Prix name.

And, they do have experience too as I've already mentioned, they have several ex-F1 personnel plus Mike Gascoyne, all quite "reputable" if you ask me. Perhaps Litespeed as an organisation isn't "reputable" but neither is USGPE....

First off, the Lotus Group wouldn't threaten legal action against a business partner, so we have to take their press release as an indicator; if Litespeed insists on using the Lotus name for F1, Lotus is gonna sue. The courts in that case would have to determine if David Hunt had the proper rights to sell the name. Since none of us have reliable evidence on these trademarks, and Litespeed was rejected anyways, I'm gonna leave it at that.

But the point you're missing from my previous posts is that Litespeed (or any new team) shouldn't need to buy a new name to gain reputation, why can't they build it on their own like Ferrari and McLaren did? I don't see Prodrive having to do that.

 

[Ardius]

First off, the Lotus Group wouldn't threaten legal action against a business partner, so we have to take their press release as an indicator; if Litespeed insists on using the Lotus name for F1, Lotus is gonna sue. The courts in that case would have to determine if David Hunt had the proper rights to sell the name. Since none of us have reliable evidence on these trademarks, and Litespeed was rejected anyways, I'm gonna leave it at that.

But the point you're missing from my previous posts is that Litespeed (or any new team) shouldn't need to buy a new name to gain reputation, why can't they build it on their own like Ferrari and McLaren did? I don't see Prodrive having to do that.

As for why Litespeed "need" to use a different name, well I don't know why they decided beyond what they have said to the press, which is basically that they always wanted to bring back the Lotus team to F1 (being former members of it). Whether they really did it for quick publicity or to make it easier to sponsor them is speculation although is probably likely.

David Hunt did have the proper rights as far as I know, because "Team Lotus" is/was a seperate entity to Lotus Cars and the rights were sold to him after the team started to go under in 1994. So much so in fact that he used the name in partnership with Pacific initially in 1995 - Lotus Cars didn't make noises then either.
The most Lotus Group can ask for I think is for the team not to use the Lotus logo and basically refer to itself as a completely different Lotus. But I doubt they can contest the name as they do own the rights.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So, assuming for the moment that all eight teams are irreparbly out - and I still believe something doesn't add up - who is going to replace them?

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

I wonder if Williams and Force India have engine contracts going into 2010....

 

[Tired Tyres]

So, assuming for the moment that all eight teams are irreparbly out - and I still believe something doesn't add up - who is going to replace them?

Whoever was left on the shortlist of new entrants after the three new teams were selected?

 

[Crashbroke23]

I guess so, the FiA did get 15-3-2=10 other entries. There must be some good entries still left. (This post was written on a Nintendo DSi)

 

[Ardius]

Lola is not going to be in as they rejected their reserved entry.

Prodrive probably will now be in as they said they had been left as a reserve.

They don't need 8 teams to replace them, they only need 5 (for a grid of 20 cars). I doubt they will have 8 that are good enough quality entries, they may have trouble enough with 5.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I'm guessing that Lola removing their application might have something to do with knowing something about the breakaway. Could they make the ninth team in the breakaway series?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm guessing that Lola removing their application might have something to do with knowing something about the breakaway. Could they make the ninth team in the breakaway series?

No. Lola withdrew two days ago, before FOTA sent a letter to the FIA saying they were willing to band together and commit to 2012 if the FIA would be willing to renegotiate. FOTA did not decide to withdraw until after the FIA had replied.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Speaking of Lola withdrawing, N.Technology are following suit. Seems they don't much like the idea of being in a Formula One series without the manufacturers.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Speaking of Lola withdrawing, N.Technology are following suit. Seems they don't much like the idea of being in a Formula One series without the manufacturers.

Yes but there's nothing to stop Lola and the FOTA teams talking about it before the FOTA letter though.

Speaking of Lola withdrawing, N.Technology are following suit. Seems they don't much like the idea of being in a Formula One series without the manufacturers.

Perhaps this along with Lola is ten teams for the Breakaway?