450pp Street Car Tuners Club -- Nightly 9:45-12:00 EDT

  • Thread starter Thread starter chuyler1
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Ideally, full damage would only hurt the innocent for one race. I just like full damage. I like the realism of it. I think when you wreck hard enough to get a big, red, throbbing circle in the middle then it should place you in the pits and out of the race.

The funny thing is, I'm an absolutely horrible driver. We've had five races so far this Tuesday Lemons series and I've only not wrecked myself once.

My experience with AOK has not been as bad as others. My experience is similar to my experience with Cujo last night. He gets stuck behind slower traffic (i.e. me) and gets impatient trying to pass. He knows he is faster. I know I am slower. I'm telling myself the entire time I have traffic behind me to just stay calm and hold the inside line. That is my only defense is to make them pass me wide.

I know I brake too soon for corners. With traffic behind me I invariably overcompensate and brake too late and wreck myself. So if the impatient parties behind me would just wait, they can get by.

To tie this back to full damage, since we didn't have full damage last night at Monaco, I didn't complain when Cujo dived on us. Mind you, he also failed to make the pass stick, so I didn't complain.

I did have some early contact with a couple others (KanDyvAn comes to mind), but I don't think it was bad, just a tight track and things getting away from us. I did rear-end Bullseye at one point. Sorry about that. I don't think I bumped him too far off his line.

I do want to give kudos to Leadbedr. I'm in last, following him to the chicane. He got into it too late. It is possible he came to a complete stop just to avoid hitting the wall. I like to think he came to a complete stop just to avoid jumping out in front of me.

Aside from all of that, I had fun at Monaco last night. I was dead last after the first corner, but I was able to cleanly pass my way up to mid field. Sadly, my 450 Integra is easier to drive and quicker than my 490+ Talon, so I don't expect to do as well in tonight's Lemons race.
 
whooah! i been out the few days and i missed a lot of ....... drama! :odd:
If you guys decided to go full damage, then im up for it although my only complaint like everyone else is that innocent drivers got to pay for it from time to time.

like A_garris states i had the tendency to break early too. hence when we last race with full damage i took a full blunt of it at the back damaging both my suspension costing me the race the first lap. Funny thing is, Grenade who bumped me didnt even need to pit.

when we race full damage then everyone should be extra careful executing their pass. With drivers like me, just a little patience is all you need, sooner or later im bound to make a mistake, you dont even have to sweat to pass me. :lol:
 
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I don't have any experience with AOK's driving, but I find it funny that he links to a BTCC race. I don't think BTCC drivers adhere to the GTP OLR. :)
 
Sorry about the divebombing (AOK'ing) on Rome reverse Grenade. Like I said, I had no reference point for the brake zone on the first turn; I need more practice on there. Also (here's another excuse), I just put together a new mount for the wheel and pedals, so I was getting used to the different angle of the pedals.

pmiWU.jpg
 
I'm not going too lie. I watch NASCAR, and I drive the speed limit everywhere I go. But that doesn't
mean I go and crash everyone in the 450 room. I'll admit that I am NOT the cleanest driver when we race, matter of fact, there's not many I see that are more aggressive then me. But do I use people too help me turn? No. Do I dive-bomb everyone first turn? No. I'm just going to admit that I don't follow OLR entirely, but I do believe in the circle track principle. My dad taught me (he raced circle track when he was younger and was quite successful) that if they're to the numbers it's theirs. Which basically means, if they are too your door, you let them have the spot. AOK's issue is that he 3 car lengths back when he tries too pass. I like AOK a lot, but in a 6 lap race, there is no need too dive-bomb every turn. You don't need too lead the race by lap 2. I'm sorry for ranting, but I wanted in on the drama for the week. :lol:
 
watermelonpunch
AOK participated in 6 event races, and some practice races too.
AOK was not involved in any contact incidents.
And it IS true that AOK received nothing but compliments on his driving.
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Six races running equal cars is not quite a large data set compared to the complaints I have received over several months from a handful of drivers. We run up to 6 races a night. However, AOK does have the capacity to race clean so I don't doubt his good behavior in your series. I've stated multiple times that he is a fast, calculated driver....but his calculations do not adhere to the GTP OLR on many occasions. That's about all I am going to say on the matter.


As for damage on full. we've tried it before and it doesn't work for these adhoc races. Drivers need significant seat time in a vehicle and track before they can be comfortable enough to race wheel to wheel without causing damage to others. As others have stated, the innocent driver usually takes the brunt of the damage. The race is fun for about 2 turns and then half of the pack ends up with damage severe enough to simply quit racing because there simply isn't enough time to catch back up and race alongside anyone.
 
Well, this seems to have gone in the wrong direction if people are getting "banned" and the discussion is being reduced to insults. I understand this is a game and that it's somewhat foolish to be annoyed to the point of making posts on this forum, but my intention was only to get AOK to understand that if he had acknowledged that his technique was not the best in certain situations then maybe there needs to be some adjustment, least of all being concession of position when something like this happens. That's it. I get the sense from his posts he feels he's being singled out for whatever paranoid reason and though I can only speak for myself I don't feel this is the case. I can speak to 3 specific instances where I feel my complaints are legit and going unheard by him, but whatever.

I'm not going to argue my point anymore (again) if this deters him from joining the room or anyone else for that matter. It may also be too late but I hope this doesn't stigmatize AOK as a dirty driver throughout whatever other GTP events he joins. He's already removed me from his friend's list, and others I'm sure, but that too was not my intention.
 
Since there are regulars here, why dont we make a point system for every race that we had with the 1 make race garnering the most points and start posting it in a leaderboard and then we can execute penalties based on incidents made on the track.

I know its gonna be an additional work but whoever host (coz we have multiple hosts)just needs to keep track of the first 3-4 races and just post results here, then the OP (if its ok with him) will keep track of the points and update everyone of the current standings.

its a way of policing the series.... just my 2 cents!

or plainly let the host make a "Wall of Shame" shoutout to a driver not obeying the GTP OLR with photo/video evidence for any incidendence deemed guilty on the track.

in this way nobody gets banned.


BTW: nice set up you got there Dabneyd!

PEACE! :)
 
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Vol Jbolaz
I do want to give kudos to Leadbedr. I'm in last, following him to the chicane. He got into it too late. It is possible he came to a complete stop just to avoid hitting the wall. I like to think he came to a complete stop just to avoid jumping out in front of me.

Aside from all of that, I had fun at Monaco last night. I was dead last after the first corner, but I was able to cleanly pass my way up to mid field. Sadly, my 450 Integra is easier to drive and quicker than my 490+ Talon, so I don't expect to do as well in tonight's Lemons race.
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It was a little of both. If I go off track I wait to get back on clean.

And the Integra is one of the best cars at 450 if you set it up right.
 
BTK
I'm not going too lie. I watch NASCAR, and I drive the speed limit everywhere I go. But that doesn't
mean I go and crash everyone in the 450 room. I'll admit that I am NOT the cleanest driver when we race, matter of fact, there's not many I see that are more aggressive then me. But do I use people too help me turn? No. Do I dive-bomb everyone first turn? No. I'm just going to admit that I don't follow OLR entirely, but I do believe in the circle track principle. My dad taught me (he raced circle track when he was younger and was quite successful) that if they're to the numbers it's theirs. Which basically means, if they are too your door, you let them have the spot. AOK's issue is that he 3 car lengths back when he tries too pass. I like AOK a lot, but in a 6 lap race, there is no need too dive-bomb every turn. You don't need too lead the race by lap 2. I'm sorry for ranting, but I wanted in on the drama for the week. :lol:
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Bowtie, I think you did a perfect job of describing the difference between you and AOK. If you've got the run on someone, it's a 2-wide race...but diving in from 3 car lengths back does not give you any entitlement to rub fenders unless the driver in front has noticeably worse tire wear. You see stuff like that in F1 when drivers are running different compounds but you won't see it in a race where all cars have the same tires and the same brakes.

I also like your father's advise, especially since it is exactly what is stated in the GTP OLR.

08: Corner Rights:

A:
When approaching the turn/apex of turn, the car which "holds" the inner side of turn has entrance-advantage and other driver(s) must refrain from endangering him by his actions.

B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

C:
If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.
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RotaryFreak
Since there are regulars here, why dont we make a point system for every race that we had with the 1 make race garnering the most points and start posting it in a leaderboard and then we can execute penalties based on incidents made on the track.

I know its gonna be an additional work but whoever host (coz we have multiple hosts)just needs to keep track of the first 3-4 races and just post results here, then the OP (if its ok with him) will keep track of the points and update everyone of the current standings.

its a way of policing the series.... just my 2 cents!

or plainly let the host make a "Wall of Shame" shoutout to a driver not obeying the GTP OLR with photo/video evidence for any incidendence deemed guilty on the track.

in this way nobody gets banned.

PEACE! :)
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I saw a reputation type of system somewhere else. I like that. No need to worry about watching replays and such. For each race you are in, or each evening you show up, you get to a limited number of votes to vote up or down another driver. Sort of like the karma systems at /. or Perlmonks.

leadbedr
It was a little of both. If I go off track I wait to get back on clean.

And the Integra is one of the best cars at 450 if you set it up right.
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And I don't like using the Integra cause I don't really consider it a hatch. But it is allowed, and it is fast enough that I can sometimes keep up with others.

And it isn't my tune: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=194204&page=4#post5108244
 
esh
Well, this seems to have gone in the wrong direction if people are getting "banned" and the discussion is being reduced to insults. I understand this is a game and that it's somewhat foolish to be annoyed to the point of making posts on this forum, but my intention was only to get AOK to understand that if he had acknowledged that his technique was not the best in certain situations then maybe there needs to be some adjustment, least of all being concession of position when something like this happens. That's it. I get the sense from his posts he feels he's being singled out for whatever paranoid reason and though I can only speak for myself I don't feel this is the case. I can speak to 3 specific instances where I feel my complaints are legit and going unheard by him, but whatever.
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Esh, i understand your points and it certainly does seem like AOK is being singled out. But this has been going on for months. He has been warned multiple times and I have held back on banning him hoping that he would smarten up and race clean like the rest of us.

RotaryFreak
Since there are regulars here, why dont we make a point system for every race that we had with the 1 make race garnering the most points and start posting it in a leaderboard and then we can execute penalties based on incidents made on the track.
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I would like to do a points system, but I simply don't have time to go back and watch every race and every pass. I record races where there is lots of action, or lots of discussion about a particular pass. However, some drivers don't have mics so if they feel slighted, their complaints don't get heard.

That reminds me, everyone should have a mic. I've got a $40 mic and it works perfectly (I think). Just don't have the volume on the game too loud.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16879261252
 
I used to have a $10 one. It was very difficult to hear drivers and it would lose connection to the playstation periodically. When I switched to the one above, everyone said my voice totally changed...and i never lose audio or mic anymore.

By the way, the playstation handles it perfectly. Chat audio goes to the headset while the game audio stays on your TV or sound system. If you want to ignore everyone, just take the headset off.
 
Read the reviews on the $10 model and you'll see why I recommended the $40 one.
 
Sorry about the dive-bomb into turn 1 in London, Mikey!
 
BTK
No. I'm just going to admit that I don't follow OLR entirely, but I do believe in the circle track principle. My dad taught me (he raced circle track when he was younger and was quite successful) that if they're to the numbers it's theirs. Which basically means, if they are too your door, you let them have the spot.
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I haven't even raced yet and I'm putting my two cents in...lol. By the way Chuyler, you do show up on my GT5 friends list this morning...wierd you weren't there last night. Anyway, I agree with this statement if by saying, "it's theirs" you mean that the following car has as much right to the corner as you and each must make allowances in your driving line to accomodate the other. If I'm outside and in the lead I have to leave you enough room to negotiate the turn, and not move down to the apex and chop you off. But if by that you mean that the lead car must give way and give the passing car the corner because it made it up to my mirror, then no I don't agree with that. You are past me and have a right to the racing line all to yourself if and only if your back bumper has cleared my front bumper. And to the contrary, if your front bumper is only two inches in front of my rear bumper by the turn in point, you should give way and allow the lead car the racing line.

esh
Well, this seems to have gone in the wrong direction if people are getting "banned" and the discussion is being reduced to insults.
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Not commenting on the specific situation because I know nothing about it first hand, but someone getting banned after thorough review would steer me towards a series instead of away from it. There are plenty of places one can go to find divebombers and guys who think it's ok to wreck you on the last lap so long as they win and other "Dale Earnhardt" type of driving. There are few places to go where people are considerate enough and care enough about clean racing to do more than pay lipservice to it, and actually review incidents and banish those that are seen to consistently race "dirty" as it were. No one is perfect, people make mistakes, and if people fess up immediately and it isn't a recurring or consistent mistake then all is forgotten and you move on. But when it's consistent and no apology or admission is forthcoming, then I have no problem banning someone for that. I do it all the time when I am hosting and I wish others did it more often as well, because eventually the jerks will either get the message and race cleaner, or give up on the game entirely when they spend a night going from room to room getting punted.
 
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I think Bowtie's "it's theirs" comment really only pertains to oval track racing. On an oval, it's all about maintaining momentum. If someone gets inside you the position is theirs unless you want to force the 2-wide racing line...which will be slower for both cars allowing a 3rd car the advantage to get by both of you. Giving up the position allows you to duck behind and continue to battle without giving up too much ground to a 3rd car in the wings. In oval racing, if you don't have the apex, you don't have anything. You lose so much speed running the outside line it is just stupid not to yield.

On the final lap, racing 2-wide is almost a given though. Both drivers should race as best they can with the track they have. If you're on the outside, you can't expect to drop into the apex. Likewise if you're on the inside, you can't expect to track-out completely. In this game, racing 2-wide is a lot easier than in real life. For one, we don't have debris build up on the outskirts of the track.

BTW Johnny, I'm running in a separate race series tonight so check this thread for who will be hosting tonight.
 
whos hosting tonight? so that people know where to go in advance.....
 
RotaryFreak
whos hosting tonight? so that people know where to go in advance.....
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I can host it tonight.
I think most of the regulars are already on my friends list.
If not send my a request before 930.
And dont forget

Tuesday 8/02: JDM Night -- 450pp, Japanese Cars Only, SS Tires

You get one verbal then one text warning. If you're in the wrong car after that you're gone.
 
You tell em whose boss lead!
WP
 
chuyler1
AOK, you've been warned multiple times...and that was your last night in my private lobby. You can join in on public lobby nights (not hosted by me) but everyone in my lobby is fed up with your divebombing.
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What took so long?

And not on wednesdays.
 
Every hot hatch night there is the same discussion, which cars count. I don't mind letting in the Integra, but I don't think it is a hatch. I do think the Mini is a hatch, even though, I think physically, it is a two-door wagon.

Dawned on me today, the DSM cars (the Eclipse/Talon/Laser) are hatches, too. And unlike the Z-cars, they are available in front-wheel drive.
 
I'm sorry but there is no such thing as a 2-door compact wagon. That is simply the definition of a hatchback.

From the wikipedia page describing a hatchback... A hatchback is defined as having parts A, B, and C, without part D (a trunk or extended cargo area).

220px-Three_body_styles_with_pillars_and_boxes.png


Now look at the Mini... which does it fit?
Clearly it does not have a "D1" (top image above) or "D2" (middle image)
2002Manual_MiniCooperDim2.gif


Now look at the Integra...
It seems to me, that the Integra, although having a lifting rear gate, still has the profile of a sedan which wold make it an A-B-D1. It has a flat section of sheetmetal parallel to the ground.
1952-mid.jpg


Now look at the CRX
This is pretty gray. Again it has a lifting rear gate that hinges on the roofline and it does not have any sheetmetal that could be construed as a trunk...but the rear glass resembles a coupe more than a straight back.

Honda%20CRX.png


PS, did anyone watch the US Top Gear episode this week where they picked their best "First Cars"? The CRX lost the competition to the Dodge Aries LOL! Everyone my age had a Reliant, Aries, or New Yorker when I was in high school.

In any case, I really don't care if people want to run the Integra or CRX...or even the Talon. I don't think any of the cars give the driver an advantage. I'd consider them compact coupes but I guess that isn't a real classification.

The reason I have restricted drivers to 2-door vehicles is because there are many larger 4-door vehicles that have muddied the "hot hatch" market. A Subaru Impreza or Mazda3 could be considered small wagons or large hatchbacks. The Mazdaspeed3 is considered a "hot hatch" these days but it is quite large when placed next to a 2-door GTI or Mini Cooper.

...and besides, there is a huge variety of 2-door hatches to choose from. Save the bigger ones for wagon night (if we ever do that again).
 
The A, B, C, and D labels are for the pillars. A hatch, whether it has three or four pillars, has the distinction of the last pillar being part of the roof. That is what the Wikipedia article is trying to get across.

The Focus in that image demonstrates that its C pillar is part of the roof. On the Mini, you can see that the C pillar is not.

I think the Mini should be included because it is marketed in the hot hatch market. So, there really isn't a need to argue that. It is in, no one contests that. It is an allowed exception to the rule (or that defines the rule).

I don't see the argument over the CRX. It is a hatch.

Again, I don't think the Integra should be. It is just a lift-back coupé (like the Z-cars and the DSMs). And I guess the best way to describe it is that the last pillar doesn't mark the end of the car, there is fender beyond it. The last pillar doesn't even go beyond the back wheel.

Now, I'm not saying I think you shouldn't allow the Integra, the Eclipse, and the Talon. I'm just say, I don't think they are really consider hatches. They aren't marketed in that segment.

Something you could probably do, aside from limit it to two-door, front-wheel drives (which keeps the Z-cars out) is limit the overall body length. You don't have to, but I'm sure you could set a limit that would keep the DSMs out. Mind you, I don't know that anyone really wants to keep the DSMs out (I don't).

You could also limit things to 4-seat hatches to restrict the CRX (it was just a two seater, right)? That might also limit the CRZ, I'm not sure.
 
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