60fps Replays for GT6?

[SpookyVenom1]

As you know in GT5, gameplay runs at 60fps, but replays only ran at 30fps. If you look at GT3 and GT4's replays, they also ran at 60fps. What I wonder is whether they will stick to 30fps replays or buff them back up to 60fps.

 

[HuskyGT]

I wouldn't mind if the whole game is toned down to a solid 30fps. I don't know how these things work, but I imagine that 60fps sacrifices other things.

Many good games that ran at 60fps in the PS2 era were brought to 30fps and they still looked great. Example:

MGS2: PS2 ran at 60fps the whole game.
MGS4: PS3 ran at a solid 30fps, and even went up to 60fps in small enclosed areas.

Framerate does't make a game good or bad, unless it is a half baked piece of crap game that turns into a slideshow while playing. Example: NFS Shift.

And now that I remember, GT1 had a 60fps option when you finished the game. You could do a time trial at SSR5 running at 60fps. If im not mistaken, a lot of the background was not present, as well as some track details. which means that yes, framerate does sacrifice other things.

 

[another_jakhole]

The system that it's made for needs to be able to handle it. The PS3 just couldn't handle this.

 

[Tornado]

I think it would be nice if they gave you an option to change it. For example, bringing back GT3/GT4's dynamic cam which could run at 30 fps, and the normal replay could run at 60.

 

[SpookyVenom1]

For arcade racing games, I don't really mind 30fps games, but I don't like playing sims that run at 30fps like NFS shift, since it doesnt feel smooth enough for both gameplay and control

 

[another_jakhole]

I think it would be nice if they gave you an option to change it. For example, bringing back GT3/GT4's dynamic cam which could run at 30 fps, and the normal replay could run at 60.

The story of my GT5 "career". There NEEDS to be more options in GT6 for every part of the game.

For arcade racing games, I don't really mind 30fps games, but I don't like playing sims that run at 30fps like NFS shift, since it doesnt feel smooth enough for both gameplay and control

I don't know the technicalities of it, but the amount of FPS there are affects how the physics run. The more FPS, the more efficiently the physics are utilized, I suppose. If someone with knowledge on this can explain...

 

[Exorcet]

I don't know the technicalities of it, but the amount of FPS there are affects how the physics run. The more FPS, the more efficiently the physics are utilized, I suppose. If someone with knowledge on this can explain...

Computers operate in discrete steps, they cannot produce continuous physics. This goes for both time and space. Example, in real time, 10 seconds can be infinitely subdivided. In a game those 10 seconds are broken up into equal pieces and the game goes from one time to the next. The smaller the individual units of time, the more accurate the physics.

However the graphics and physics don't need to run at the same rate.

 

[dr_slump]

As you know in GT5, gameplay runs at 60fps, but replays only ran at 30fps. If you look at GT3 and GT4's replays, they also ran at 60fps. What I wonder is whether they will stick to 30fps replays or buff them back up to 60fps.

30fps is more than enough for videos. Ever watched a 24p movie?

 

[ICEYOU]

Frames per second? You guy's are really picky. lol

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

30fps is more than enough for videos. Ever watched a 24p movie?

Have you ever not?

I'm sorry but I don't know where some of you are getting the idea that GT5 runs at 60 FPS. You must have a different game or console.

 

[Tornado]

GT5 generally does run around 60 FPS. It doesn't do it all the time, and it doesn't usually take that much to get it to drop, but under optimal circumstances the game happily chugs along at 60.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Uh huh... So, with a single car (or even full standard competitor field) on a PS2 ported track, with the crowd and track side objects removed, and no weather... I can believe that.

By the way, exactly how are you benchmarking this?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I find it smoother and less frame drops with 1080i resolution, flicker reduction under display option, using LPCM audio ( DD or DTS is compressed audio ), disable music in race, driving with the hood cam ( no rear view or cockpit ), no weather, alone in the a spec or arcade time trial, the fps usually very smooth sailing at 60fps. Certain tracks do have some sections that prone to frame drops, eg : London, Spa, Madrid.

Notes : 720p in GT5 will enable 4xAA which in my opinion will tax the PS3 more, hence I preferred 1080i, there's almost no noticeable difference on my TV compared to 1080p.

 

[Tornado]

Shockingly, I possess these things called "eyes," and am also well versed in what 60FPS looks like. Using these "eyes," I can determine that when you are on a day track and when there are only one or two Premium models right next to you, the game doesn't run appreciably worse that GT4 did (somewhat frequent screen tearing aside). It is only when you get to the races with high amounts of visual effects (weather/night/off-road) that the frame rate really drops. I'm also perfectly capable of reading the oft-quoted Digital Foundry article, which backs up my own personal experiences with several videos that shows the game generally hovering in the 50-55 range with several (Premium) cars on track despite dating back to a time before PD cut down on the trackside objects in a bid to increase performance.



Now perhaps I can see whatever evidence that you are apparently capable of bringing to the table to assert that GT5 doesn't perform in that way.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Probably because it's not true 1080p... It is rendered at a lower resolution and upscaled. As are 99% of console games.

There is still AA at "1080" its just not MSAA which is present at 720.

@Tornado I almost quit reading when you said "your eyes." I mean really?

I can also find several videos highlighting GT5 dropping into the teens... Doesn't mean that is actually the performance I am experiencing.

And like I said, I believe you... In the perfect of situations GT5 can achieve 60 FPS.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

http://imagequalitymatters.blogspot.com/2010/12/tech-analysis-gran-turismo-5.html

Explains it all in great detail.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Thanks, I read that like a year ago though.

But, even that article states it drops off to 30 FPS.

Not that that's not playable.

Like I said other benches have shown it dip into the teens...

But, I am excited for GT6 on PS4! Give me true 1920x1080 with massive audio and graphical detail above 45ish FPS and I will be a happy camper.

I could not care less what frame rate replays are rendered at. 30 is more than enough.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

For now, in GT5, the only way to get highest possible stable frame rate is to have 1080i with flicker reduction ( disable temporal AA and less bandwidth with interlace output), use of uncompressed audio ( LPCM ), no 3D, no music ( less HDD access ) and hood cam during the race.

 

[dr_slump]

Have you ever not?

Of course! What's that for a question?
Not every movie runs with 24fps.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Of course! What's that for a question?
Not every movie runs with 24fps.

99% of them do. The ones that don't are received poorly. Look at the Hobbit prequel to LOTR. Critics didn't like it because it didn't "feel" right.

 

[Griffith500]

Of course! What's that for a question?
Not every movie runs with 24fps.

Did you know that practically no cinema projects at 24 Hz these days?
In fact, even with proper film projectors, they were duplicating frames and "upsampling" years ago.
Why is that, do you think?

Despite 24 Hz being just as unnatural as 60 Hz, more people are used to it and, of course, being used to something automatically makes it "better". Maybe there's a lot to be said for the artistic effect of motion blurred cinematography, but this is a game we're talking about.


An option for a constant 60 Hz mode in GT6 would be great. The 60 Hz mode in GT1 was pretty cool. It "felt" better, but at the time I didn't know why, which confused me because it looked so much worse, aesthetically!

 

[dr_slump]

Did you know that practically no cinema projects at 24 Hz these days?

Source? I know that some can project with 48hz, but that's not that comon atm.

In fact, even with proper film projectors, they were duplicating frames and "upsampling" years ago.
Why is that, do you think?

Duplicating frames doesn't make it better.

Despite 24 Hz being just as unnatural as 60 Hz, more people are used to it and, of course, being used to something automatically makes it "better". Maybe there's a lot to be said for the artistic effect of motion blurred cinematography, but this is a game we're talking about.

1. What is natural in your eyes?
2. I didn't say it's better, and that was never the point.
3. We talk about replays........ of course, replays from a game, but cmon!

An option for a constant 60 Hz mode in GT6 would be great. The 60 Hz mode in GT1 was pretty cool. It "felt" better, but at the time I didn't know why, which confused me because it looked so much worse, aesthetically!

For replays? Cause that's what this thread is about.....

 

[Griffith500]

Source? I know that some can project with 48hz, but that's not that comon atm.

Here.

Duplicating frames doesn't make it better.

Depends what you mean by better; in this exact case, it reduces the flicker for most people, so the film is easier to watch. It should be noted that the cinema speed, in terms of flicker, is actually twice the indicated rate - it undergoes two full-contrast changes in one cycle. So a 48 Hz projector has oscillations at an effective 96 Hz, because you can perceive the darkness of the blank interval as well as the brightness of the frame itself - so you're sort of trying to hide a frame of nothing amongst the film's frames themselves.

1. What is natural in your eyes?
2. I didn't say it's better, and that was never the point.
3. We talk about replays........ of course, replays from a game, but cmon!

For replays? Cause that's what this thread is about.....

"Natural" is obviously what I see in the real world; all reproduced video has some unnaturalness to it, to my eyes. It's easy to get used to it, though, in fact it only takes a few seconds for me. But for a game there is the special requirement of interactivity, and that changes things. Of course, in a replay that's not necessarily a concern, and if you're trying to emulate the look of video, then a lower framerate plus motion blur is obviously artistically favourable, but it's still unnatural. If your goal is instead to mimic what you see in reality, then 30 Hz isn't enough.

I've already stated that an option would be fine, not that it should be locked to 60 for everyone. Not that it makes a blind bit of difference once people actually get used to a proliferation of 60 Hz material.

 

[SHHADA]

Tbh, i wouldn't mind if they kept it at 30...

the only thing they have to add is:

• change gamespeed (half speed, quarter speed or percentage)
  
• add custom camera (like in call of duty: you can set marks at different times)
  
• option to hide name and flag from online saved replays
• option to be able to upload your replay (maybe to youtube, otherwise upload it as a mediafile and be able to download it after)

Who agrees?
and how can we actually make this work?

 

[Swagger897]

Tbh, i wouldn't mind if they kept it at 30...

the only thing they have to add is:

• change gamespeed (half speed, quarter speed or percentage)
  
• add custom camera (like in call of duty: you can set marks at different times)
  
• option to hide name and flag from online saved replays
• option to be able to upload your replay (maybe to youtube, otherwise upload it as a mediafile and be able to download it after)

Who agrees?
and how can we actually make this work?

I hope you don't mean permanent speed for the game? I don't especially like that too much as an endurance racer, as it would take out the whole prefix of that...

 

[SHHADA]

I hope you don't mean permanent speed for the game? I don't especially like that too much as an endurance racer, as it would take out the whole prefix of that...

no i mean only in the replay and not ingame itself. like a function to take down the speed.

 

[Swagger897]

no i mean only in the replay and not ingame itself. like a function to take down the speed.

Replay:tup: Good idea... I never liked the GT 5 chapter fast forward style, as you couldn't go back..

 

[SHHADA]

Replay:tup: Good idea... I never liked the GT 5 chapter fast forward style, as you couldn't go back..

should we try to get a petition or something going on?
this should actually be in there a long time ago

 

[Swagger897]

should we try to get a petition or something going on?
this should actually be in there a long time ago

Fire away.... But I'm not sure how successful it would be with two blokes complaining about it

 

[Grayfox]

And now that I remember, GT1 had a 60fps option when you finished the game. You could do a time trial at SSR5 running at 60fps. If im not mistaken, a lot of the background was not present, as well as some track details. which means that yes, framerate does sacrifice other things.

GT-HiFi

And the track detail was better too.

It was PD showing what the console can really do at the time.