Advanced physics + somehow worse AI = >:(

  • Thread starter Thread starter Devedander
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Phewwwww! I thought I had jumped into an online game somehow when I was attacked by the so called AI.
 
stephen220378
i'm not saying it happens in every single race but it has happened to me a few times, what i do in some races is use a slower top speed car than the ai opponents especially in the beginner and amateur series races so as to make it a bit more difficult or i should say so the ai cars can catch up on the straights and make a race of it, however a few times when i've moved to cover their overtake, instead of the ai car braking or moving to attempt the overtake on the opposite side of the track, they've just ploughed right into the back of my car. I watched the replay of the one involving my jaguar e-type on circuit de la sarthe and there was plenty of time and space for the ai car to either brake or avoid me.

I'm not saying the ai is completely bad but there's certainly faults but i suppose there's only so much it can be programmed to do.
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this!!! I was running the vitz challenge on amateur or beginner i dont remember i took the slowest yaris 85hp or something all of them were turbo or something because they were freakin fast on straights, i would over take them in corners but once we get into the straight they start raming into me and i had 3 vitz on the back trying to get my position and i could never finnish first.

i got tired of it and turbo my car , it was enough to not be that slow and finally gold :)
 
I've had AI PIT me a bunch of times, so I just started doing it back. It satisfies my road rage, even if it doesn't get me ahead :p
 
Maybe it's because I spin out far too often, but I notice this issue most after i've lost control... All but the most fiendish drivers would slow down and go around me in real life, but the GT AI dudes turn into high speed bulldozers.

I don't know much about programming, but I do know that the AI does have some semblance of hit detection, as they'll manoeuvre to pass me on occasion.

Could it be that creating this sophisticated AI that we all desire just isn't possible for PD right now? are there other examples of awesome AI?
 
In previous GT, I felt bad when I accidentally hit, pit AI cars. Well, not anymore.
 
ChUnKieBaLLz
Agreed man. It's not because the AI is stupid that they hit you, or you hit them. It's because you pulled an unexpected move all of a sudden and AI didn't have enough time to react. In real life, you can get into serious accidents if you suddenly brake-check the car behind you. The AI doesn't expect you to drive like a madman, diving into the corner and forcefully get the inside line, they expected proper racing ettiquette. Oh, and if AI was programmed to drive like pro drivers in Sunday Cup with delayed braking, maintaining the max corner speed throughout the corner and perfect execution on exiting, we would all be complaining that the AI is too pro. Seriously, PD could've made the AI extremely tough, but decides not to so that casual players won't get owned. It's obviously easy for the veterans, but some people do struggle alot to keep up with the AI if they are driving the same car class.
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I have to disagree... the AI does hit you when it shouldn't and it's not just a lack of reaction time thing... I have actually had them directly accelerate into me in situations where if they didn't accelerate they would not have hit me.

But more annoying is not only that they drive into me, but that once they drive into me they keep driving through me... I literally hear "thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk" for hundreds of feet as the AI car pushes my rear end out for hundreds of feet as I can't do anything to correct control. If I get off the gas they push through my rear end pointing me the wrong way, if I keep accelerating we kind of stay stuck together like a magnet and I simply can't control to get out of the situation.

I will try and get a video when I get home from visiting family tomorrow.
 
Devedander
I have to disagree... the AI does hit you when it shouldn't and it's not just a lack of reaction time thing... I have actually had them directly accelerate into me in situations where if they didn't accelerate they would not have hit me.

But more annoying is not only that they drive into me, but that once they drive into me they keep driving through me... I literally hear "thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk" for hundreds of feet as the AI car pushes my rear end out for hundreds of feet as I can't do anything to correct control. If I get off the gas they push through my rear end pointing me the wrong way, if I keep accelerating we kind of stay stuck together like a magnet and I simply can't control to get out of the situation.

I will try and get a video when I get home from visiting family tomorrow.
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There is a video of a BMW rollover where none of the AI hit him even though he is in the middle of the track backing up and moving forward. All of the video evidence that has been shown completely contradicts these kinds of complaints. This kind of AI behavior seems to be the exception, not the norm. There is even a guy showing a Yaris make race where he swerves back and forth in front of the AI in order to block and they ALL slow down, and he creates this HUGE clog of traffic behind him, another video that shows how EXCEPTIONAL the AI has become.
 
WhiskeyJack00
Maybe it's because I spin out far too often, but I notice this issue most after i've lost control... All but the most fiendish drivers would slow down and go around me in real life, but the GT AI dudes turn into high speed bulldozers.

I don't know much about programming, but I do know that the AI does have some semblance of hit detection, as they'll manoeuvre to pass me on occasion.

Could it be that creating this sophisticated AI that we all desire just isn't possible for PD right now? are there other examples of awesome AI?
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F1 2010 has some pretty good AI when it comes to cars not hitting you, especially if you lose control and end up facing the wrong way or across the track, cars behind will easily go around you and if they can't they'll stop or slow down until a space is free to pass. Even under heavy early corner braking it's extremely unusual for a car to run into the back of you. The AI in that game isn't perfect by any means but it shows that in the situation it can be done.
 
RedSuinit
There is a video of a BMW rollover where none of the AI hit him even though he is in the middle of the track backing up and moving forward. All of the video evidence that has been shown completely contradicts these kinds of complaints. This kind of AI behavior seems to be the exception, not the norm. There is even a guy showing a Yaris make race where he swerves back and forth in front of the AI in order to block and they ALL slow down, and he creates this HUGE clog of traffic behind him, another video that shows how EXCEPTIONAL the AI has become.
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BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! fanboy are cute. Back on topic, yes my experience with the so called "AI" is in line with what everybody in this thread is saying. This is no more AI than just cars following a spline path. Even the AI in motocross madness was better than this and it WAS locked to a spline path.
 
-=DV=-
BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! fanboy are cute. Back on topic, yes my experience with the so called "AI" is in line with what everybody in this thread is saying. This is no more AI than just cars following a spline path. Even the AI in motocross madness was better than this and it WAS locked to a spline path.
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Lol. Any video evidence to back that up? I have plenty to show that the opposite is true. Want me to post it?



 
RedSuinit
There is a video of a BMW rollover where none of the AI hit him even though he is in the middle of the track backing up and moving forward. All of the video evidence that has been shown completely contradicts these kinds of complaints. This kind of AI behavior seems to be the exception, not the norm. There is even a guy showing a Yaris make race where he swerves back and forth in front of the AI in order to block and they ALL slow down, and he creates this HUGE clog of traffic behind him, another video that shows how EXCEPTIONAL the AI has become.
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There are examples of situations or times that the AI does dodge something in the road however that doens't mean it never works the other way. There was a video a while back (I think on tokyo) where an AI car dodged a sideways driver who had spun out, but right after another car hit the driver and continued to bump and drive right through it. It's entirely possible that the AI is not consistent.

It's possible that sometimes the AI avoids collisions and sometimes it doesn't. I am sure I wouldn't know about all the times the AI does it right since the result is they don't hit me.

But I know for a fact that there are times when it hits you then keeps bumping and driving right through you totally screwig any chance of recovering. This has been especially noteable on TGTT 2 with the Lotus race for me.
 
Devedander
once they drive into me they keep driving through me... I literally hear "thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk" for hundreds of feet as the AI car pushes my rear end out for hundreds of feet as I can't do anything to correct control. If I get off the gas they push through my rear end pointing me the wrong way, if I keep accelerating we kind of stay stuck together like a magnet and I simply can't control to get out of the situation.
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All i can say dude is get out of the way man!!!!!! If I was an AI car and you lost control and wouldnt get out of the way.... with all due respect... i'd drive through you too :sly: hahahaha......
 
Devedander
There are examples of situations or times that the AI does dodge something in the road however that doens't mean it never works the other way. There was a video a while back (I think on tokyo) where an AI car dodged a sideways driver who had spun out, but right after another car hit the driver and continued to bump and drive right through it.

It's possible that sometimes the AI avoids collisions and sometimes it doesn't. I am sure I wouldn't know about all the times the AI does it right since the result is they don't hit me.

But I know for a fact that there are times when it hits you then keeps bumping and driving right through you totally screwig any chance of recovering. This has been especially noteable on TGTT 2 with the Lotus race for me.
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I know, and if you notice in my post I acknowledge that it happens, but that it seems like that kind of behavior is not the norm. It seems to be the exception for the AI. I never did, and never will say that it never happens.
 
but yet there is an entire thread of people complaining and a whole host of reviewers marking the game down on terrible AI...come to the real world son.

As im not so self absorbed as to sit there recording myself playing video games then waste my time uploading them to youtube on some trip that im so important that people would want to waste their time watching me screw around in my livingroom, I dont have any videos. Im sorry, all i have is the fact that on more than one occasion I have turned the system off and walked away after feeling more like I was in a 16 entrant demolition derby than actually racing, Backed up by an entire host of people complaining of the same problem and every person that has reviewed the title also making notable complaints about the AI, funnily enough these complaints made by reviewers are exactly that of the people posting here.

I think anything shown in your video is a result of more luck than anything else.
 
RedSuinit
I know, and if you notice in my post I acknowledge that it happens, but that it seems like that kind of behavior is not the norm. It seems to be the exception for the AI. I never did, and never will say that it never happens.
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Maybe it is the exception and maybe it's just more noteable on TGTT becuase that is deifnitely where I have noticed it most... however I have been focusing on special events (not even touched A Spec yet) and TGTT is where the hariest acction goes down so perhaps it shows up more often. But it shows up in very blatant way for me there and has done so pretty regularly.
 
RedSuinit
Lol. Any video evidence to back that up? I have plenty to show that the opposite is true. Want me to post it?



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Oops there it is..... GTs god aweful AI that just stays in the one path regardless of where you are....... you can argue with me but you can't argue with the evidence.... honestly.... the only ppl i see complaining are the guys that want the AI to lay down and die like it did in previous GTs and let you get out in front after 10 seconds....

and i'm not going to complain about the complainers because i quite enjoy watching you guys trying to convince everyone how rubbish the AI is.....
you're probably little 12 year olds that have never been behind the wheel of a real car in your life.... but anyway i digress... please share some more stories about the nasty AI car that had you facing the opposite direction to where you were going..... I'm sure it was ALL the programmers fault
 
RedSuinit
There is a video of a BMW rollover where none of the AI hit him even though he is in the middle of the track backing up and moving forward. All of the video evidence that has been shown completely contradicts these kinds of complaints.
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The AI is much better than the atrociousness that was GT4, but "exceptional" implies "better than others in the genre." I've failed both of the Top Gear Special Event races that I've attempted at least once because the AI drafted up behind me and clung to his racing line going into a turn (usually the Follow-through), even though his racing line ran him right into my rear quarter panel and he didn't need to force the issue to pass me in the first place. And then he proceeded to push into me until I spun out, like it was a police chase or something.


It is also pretty annoying that the collision physics for when the AI hits you are quite realistic, but if you do anything remotely similar to the AI all of the cars go back to driving like they did in 1997.
 
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RedSuinit
Lol. Any video evidence to back that up? I have plenty to show that the opposite is true. Want me to post it?

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Just because you've seen a few videos (a miniscule fraction of the thousands if not millions of combined races in GT5 that gamers must have accumulated by now) doesn't mean what people on here are saying doesn't happen. Do you think people make things like this up and come onto this forum to start arguments? I'd love to say the AI in GT5 was amazing but in my and a lot of other people on this thread's experience, it's been far from amazing.

There seems to be some people who just won't accept what their fellow gamers are saying about the game and blindly jump to it's defence without thinking through the situation at hand.
 
-=DV=-
but yet there is an entire thread of people complaining and a whole host of reviewers marking the game down on terrible AI...come to the real world son.

As im not so self absorbed as to sit there recording myself playing video games then waste my time uploading them to youtube on some trip that im so important that people would want to waste their time watching me screw around in my livingroom, I dont have any videos. Im sorry, all i have is the fact that on more than one occasion I have turned the system off and walked away after feeling more like I was in a 16 entrant demolition derby than actually racing, Backed up by an entire host of people complaining of the same problem and every person that has reviewed the title also making notable complaints about the AI, funnily enough these complaints made by reviewers are exactly that of the people posting here.

I think anything shown in your video is a result of more luck than anything else.
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Wow, spoken like a true troll. I can only think of 2 or 3 reviews that gave it negative remarks for bad AI, and if you notice there aren't even that many people on HERE complaining about AI. As a matter of fact there are as many praising it as there are bashing it. Also do you WATCH your replays at all? Or do you just get hit and ASSUME that it was the AI's fault and not YOURS. Terrible driving increases the difficulty for AI to perform properly, since a terrible driver is likely to do something irrational, and stupid, and even the best programmers in the world would have a hard time programming AI capable of avoiding terrible drivers. I am not saying that terrible AI behavior NEVER happens, but from all evidence shown and based on players reviews, it seems to be the exception, not the norm.

Stephen220378
Just because you've seen a few videos (a miniscule fraction of the thousands if not millions of combined races in GT5 that gamers must have accumulated by now) doesn't mean what people on here are saying doesn't happen. Do you think people make things like this up and come onto this forum to start arguments? I'd love to say the AI in GT5 was amazing but in my and a lot of other people on this thread's experience, it's been far from amazing.

There seems to be some people who just won't accept what their fellow gamers are saying about the game and blindly jump to it's defence without thinking through the situation at hand.
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Did ANY of you READ my post?! I never said that it never happens. Just that it seems to be the exception, not the norm. Incredible, this amount of flak for something I never even said!

Toronado
The AI is much better than the atrociousness that was GT4, but "exceptional" implies "better than others in the genre." I've failed both of the Top Gear Special Event races that I've attempted at least once because the AI drafted up behind me and clung to his racing line going into a turn (usually the Follow-through, even though his racing line ran him right into my rear quarter panel and he didn't need to force the issue to pass me in the first place. And then he proceeded to push into me until I spun out, like it was a police chase or something.


It is also pretty annoying that the collision physics for when the AI hits you are quite realistic, but if you do anything remotely similar to the AI all of the cars go back to driving like they did in 1997.
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I can understand how that would be annoying, but I really haven't experienced that yet. I haven't tried the special events section yet.
 
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Devedander
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQPM2g-UsCM&t=4m0s

I know this is an old vid and there will be claims they fixed the AI since then, but you can see the AI being very smart in this video and also very stupid in the same race. At the end you see cars plowing down the straight and running right through the driver.
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:lol: I remember that video. 👍 Like I said, I know it happens, it has happened to me, but it is not the norm for me, (or a lot of other people it seems) the AI makes intelligent decisions far more often than it make terrible ones while I am playing. Does that mean it never happens? Not at all.
 
I'm hoping I've just missed it, but for the most part, I've seen a pretty good amount of bad AI and not so much good. I was just trying the Yaris race with the early, lower-powered prize car, and just kept getting smacked into at the end of the straight and a couple of other places. I also had an Elise brake check me on the straight in the Top Gear challenge when no one was in front of him. Maybe that's brilliant AI, then, and that driver just wanted to mess with me.

Once I get away from the AI cars, the game can be spectacular. But around them, I'm finding it's time to shut off the PS3 and do something else more often than I thought.
 
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I still don't have the game so can't comment too much, however I notice those videos displaying the "intelligence" of the AI are on straights, not corners like Deve is talking about, is it possible the AI is smart enough to dodge you on the straights, but not smart enough to avoid nudging your rear quarter panel in a corner?

Just a suggestion, I don't have the game, but I'm interested in the AI because there seems to be such huge varying opinions of it.
 
Sertsa
I'm hoping I've just missed it, but for the most part, I've seen a pretty good amount of bad AI and not so much good. I was just trying the Yaris race with the early, lower-powered prize car, and just kept getting smacked into on the straight. I also had an Elise brake check me on the straight in the Top Gear challenge when no one was in front of him. Maybe that's brilliant AI, then, and that driver just wanted to mess with me.

Once I get away from the AI cars, the game can be spectacular. But around them, I'm finding it's time to shut off the PS3 and do something else more often than I thought.
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The lotus's on the TGTT seem to be on a preset track absolutely as I have noticed after the second left and right befire you go into the first CRT one of them breaks and swerves out to the right about a car width then falls back in line... same exact thing same exact place over and over.

I ended up getting so frustrated with the Lotus race I went on to the next special event and had an absolute ball racing around the different sections of the ring... alone...
 
Devedander
The lotus's on the TGTT seem to be on a preset track absolutely as I have noticed after the second left and right befire you go into the first CRT one of them breaks and swerves out to the right about a car width then falls back in line... same exact thing same exact place over and over.

I ended up getting so frustrated with the Lotus race I went on to the next special event and had an absolute ball racing around the different sections of the ring... alone...
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Perhaps the special events are different. Like the one lap races in GT5P where every single car only took ONE line every time. I have spent all of my time in Arcade mode or doing regular A-Spec races. If the special events are like the GT5P one lap races, then I have no problem believing that the AI seems very stupid and basic. With the way they had them on rails in those one lap, pass all of the other cars to get gold, in GT5P they just plowed right through you and had no brain at all. Perhaps it is the same thing here? All I know is that the majority of my experience with the AI has been EXCELLENT.
 
Devedander
The lotus's on the TGTT seem to be on a preset track absolutely as I have noticed after the second left and right befire you go into the first CRT one of them breaks and swerves out to the right about a car width then falls back in line... same exact thing same exact place over and over.

I ended up getting so frustrated with the Lotus race I went on to the next special event and had an absolute ball racing around the different sections of the ring... alone...
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The AI on the TGTT is surreal to say the least both with the Samba Bus and Elise races, however in saying that, it's nowhere even near as bad as that in any other events in the game thankfully. I've actually been thinking have they done that intentionally in the TGTT events to raise the difficulty because you can get DQ'd for hitting another car?
 
RedSuinit
Perhaps the special events are different. Like the one lap races in GT5P where every single car only took ONE line every time. I have spent all of my time in Arcade mode or doing regular A-Spec races. If the special events are like the GT5P one lap races, then I have no problem believing that the AI seems very stupid and basic. With the way they had them on rails in those one lap, pass all of the other cars to get gold, in GT5P they just plowed right through you and had no brain at all. Perhaps it is the same thing here? All I know is that the majority of my experience with the AI has been EXCELLENT.
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Yup that might be it... in the special events it seems they are really testing you and pack a lot of cars onto the tight track then you have to race aggressively to win (ie overtake 12 of the same make car in 2 laps) so you put yourself in a lot of tight positions back to back.

Maybe it's signifincantly better in the open races... could you hop onto the TGTT and give it a shot sometime and see what you come up with? Especially the Lotus one, that's where it got me the most. When I get home tomorrow I will try some of the A spec races and see what it's like... hopefully things own't be so frustrating there.
 
Devedander
The lotus's on the TGTT seem to be on a preset track absolutely as I have noticed after the second left and right befire you go into the first CRT one of them breaks and swerves out to the right about a car width then falls back in line... same exact thing same exact place over and over.

I ended up getting so frustrated with the Lotus race I went on to the next special event and had an absolute ball racing around the different sections of the ring... alone...
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That single test was as infuriating as Mission 34 or whatever it was from GT4 - where you had to sit for 2 minutes doing nothing, drive for 7, only to find out you were a tenth too slow. It isn't that the TGTT Elise set is difficult, because it isnt - it's just..... War. Who brakes after the Follow Through?

Elise AI Drivers when your behind them. 👎

I think the AI in the Special Events seems much worse than the regular events, though it is still bad. Not as bad as GT4 was though, that is for sure. They still turn in on you, least now they dont turn in like a immovable object.
 
Devedander
Yup that might be it... in the special events it seems they are really testing you and pack a lot of cars onto the tight track then you have to race aggressively to win (ie overtake 12 of the same make car in 2 laps) so you put yourself in a lot of tight positions back to back.

Maybe it's signifincantly better in the open races... could you hop onto the TGTT and give it a shot sometime and see what you come up with? Especially the Lotus one, that's where it got me the most. When I get home tomorrow I will try some of the A spec races and see what it's like... hopefully things own't be so frustrating there.
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Yeah I'll do that tomorrow. I have played enough for tonight, and am just chillin' on the forums.
 
I find that most AI cars drive the exact same line. Very strange and unrealistic, but then maybe they get more diverse as I rise in level?
 
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