American Cars

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_aj
It's not just the british that considers US cars to be poor handlers and of below par build quality, it's all throughout europe, though imo this is starting to get outdated ...
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It is horribly outdated. Especially the handling. Whether the "build quality" comment is true or not is debatable. It all depends on your definition of build quality. The average American car probably uses what is considered harder, rougher interior materials. European cars use "nicer" materials, but they don't hold up over time. Then again that's also debatable. What do you consider the average American and average European car? The top two car companies in terms of sales in the UK are 1) Ford and 2) General Motors. :D
 
Firebird
It is horribly outdated. Especially the handling. Whether the "build quality" comment is true or not is debatable. It all depends on your definition of build quality. The average American car probably uses what is considered harder, rougher interior materials. European cars use "nicer" materials, but they don't hold up over time. Then again that's also debatable. What do you consider the average American and average European car? The top two car companies in terms of sales in the UK are 1) Ford and 2) General Motors. :D
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heh, I didnt know that. Wierd.

but to contrast:

The ford focus, which was designed in europe, had much nicer build quality levels than the rest of the ford lineup when it was brought over here. The ford models sold in europe are much tighter than the ones here too. A more demanding audience in that respect then?

don't get me started on GM build quality. I had to drive a Cavalier for a week while my car was in the shop, and it creaked and cracked and groaned so much I thought the thing was dying. the ergonomics were so bad it seemed like they went through extra trouble to make them as confusing and impractical as possible.
 
kinigitt
The ford focus, which was designed in europe, had much nicer build quality levels than the rest of the ford lineup when it was brought over here. The ford models sold in europe are much tighter than the ones here too. A more demanding audience in that respect then?
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Maybe.

But then again the Focus has a higher propensity to fall apart. As do most European cars transplanted to North America.

Maybe that's a "reliability" issue rather than "build quality". In which case I'd rather have the more "reliable" car than the one with better "build quality".

I've driven a few Cavaliers and Sunfires in my time too. They do have poor ergonomics, but I've never noticed creaking or groaning. The interior may look strange but it stays together. To me it doesn't mean the J-body cars are "bad" if they have poor ergonomics. They just do. So does a Mercedes-Benz C-class.
 
The GM sales don't come from US built cars wither, Vauxhall's are very popular fleet cars, as are Ford Mondeo's, the Focus is a good car for a family and has good build quality. Also small cars like the Ford Ka and Fiesta are popular here and they sell quite a lot.
 
Firebird
Maybe.

But then again the Focus has a higher propensity to fall apart. As do most European cars transplanted to North America.

Maybe that's a "reliability" issue rather than "build quality". In which case I'd rather have the more "reliable" car than the one with better "build quality".

I've driven a few Cavaliers and Sunfires in my time too. They do have poor ergonomics, but I've never noticed creaking or groaning. The interior may look strange but it stays together. To me it doesn't mean the J-body cars are "bad" if they have poor ergonomics. They just do. So does a Mercedes-Benz C-class.
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The new mercedes cars are so sloppy looking and unreliable. The older ones were like tanks. Needless to say I don't like any of their new cars apart from the SL55 (AMG).

Trust me, that cavalier was extremely low mileage loaner, and it was baaaaaad. The plastic was constantly creaking and the whole thing shuddered and groaned over bumps and through sharp turns.

The same thing happened when I rented a Pontiac Grand Am. Just awful.
 
That top 2 car companies thing right? I always thought the Japanese were the top of the pile. Unless it's just in sales as in every JD Power Survey Ford and Chrysler are always in the bottom 10.

Lexus and Toyota are always at the top, they have an amazing record !! In fact now I think about it it's the Japanese cars that did the best than anything else.
 
live4speed
The GM sales don't come from US built cars wither, Vauxhall's are very popular fleet cars, as are Ford Mondeo's, the Focus is a good car for a family and has good build quality. Also small cars like the Ford Ka and Fiesta are popular here and they sell quite a lot.
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I saw the Fiesta RS concept. Hot damn! I wish they brought that one over the pond. As well as the true Focus RS. We just get the SVT here, which is fine and dandy, but it's not turboed and it still just drives the front wheels.
 
_aj
That top 2 car companies thing right? I always thought the Japanese were the top of the pile. Unless it's just in sales as in every JD Power Survey Ford and Chrysler are always in the bottom 10.

Lexus and Toyota are always at the top, they have an amazing record !! In fact now I think about it it's the Japanese cars that did the best than anything else.
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I would think that it was the germans (Volks/Audi, BMW) with the best track record about build quality. Close a door on a new audi A4. They're built like submarines.
 
The Focus RS is only front wheel drive too, you might be thinking of the still in development Focus Cosworth which will be 4wd, turbo's and 300bhp ish.
 
Off topic but is it true Ford are selling off Cosworth?
Hot hatches are big sellers over here, look at the 206 GTi, C2 GT, Clio 172, Punto Sporting, Polo GT even the SportKA. :)
 
_aj
That top 2 car companies thing right? I always thought the Japanese were the top of the pile. Unless it's just in sales as in every JD Power Survey Ford and Chrysler are always in the bottom 10.

Lexus and Toyota are always at the top, they have an amazing record !! In fact now I think about it it's the Japanese cars that did the best than anything else.
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The top of the JD power survey is usually Lexus or Toyota depnding on where the survey was done, they are very good build quality, you don't see many US built cars in the top 100 ever exept in the US JD power survey when it's still usually a Japanese car that gets top.
 
live4speed
The Focus RS is only front wheel drive too, you might be thinking of the still in development Focus Cosworth which will be 4wd, turbo's and 300bhp ish.
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yes I must have mixed them up. The RS is better than the SVT at any rate.
 
live4speed
The are seilling the Cosworth engine subsidiary for Formula 1.
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Phew! It's just I glanced at something yesterday about "ford to sell cosworth" but never got the chance to read it.
 
live4speed
The top of the JD power survey is usually Lexus or Toyota depnding on where the survey was done, they are very good build quality, you don't see many US built cars in the top 100 ever exept in the US JD power survey when it's still usually a Japanese car that gets top.
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How many U.S.-built cars can you even buy? A half dozen maybe?
 
live4speed
Hey, DelBoy, don't bash the C6, it's actually good round corners despite it's ancient suspension. It did however get it's ass whooped by the TVR T350C, so while the C6 may be the first good Corvette for European roads, it's nowhere near the best buy when theres TVR's, Noble's, Marcos's and the like around.
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Hate to disagree, but facts are facts:

You asked for it, and who are we to argue. So, here, in full are all the power lap times.

Got a comment? Email top.gear@bbc.co.uk and share.

1st
Porsche Carerra GT - 1:19.8

2nd
Mercedes McLaren SLR - 1.20.9

3rd
Ford GT - 1.21.9

Joint 4th
Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3

Joint 4th
Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3

5th
Murcielago - 1.23.7


Zonda - 1.23.8


Koenigsegg - 1.23.9


Noble - 1.25.0


Gallardo - 1.25.8


Lotus Exige - 1.26.4


Chevrolet Corvette - 1.26.8


Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2


TVR 350c - 1.27.5
 
I want to see top gear test the radical round their track. I wonder where it would place, I would think the top 3 anyway. BTW it fails to mention if the track was wet or damp and I'm sure (not 100% though) the TVR run was on a damp track as was the Murcielago and others. New series is on soon so I'll be able to check this out.

addition... not to put down the C6, it was a run on a good conditions and the STIG ran it ragged, getting the tail out often and driving hard producing a very good time.
 
I do remember seeing the Radical's time over the Top Gear test track when I google-searched to find a complete list of lap times (This was before the times were added to the Top Gear site). I ended up on one of MANY sites that search which had the lap times, but one had a time with the Radical, as well as the Westfeild... if I remember rightly the Radical had a * mid to high 1'1x" * lap, possibly a low 1'1x", it was a little quicker than the Westfeild.

I could try to find the site but it'd take me forever again, and it's 2.55am here right now...

Actually I did search for you (at 3am I might add) and found this one...

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=109358

1 min 19.0 secs - Radical SR3 <------------------
1 min 19.8 secs - Porsche CGT
1 min 20.9 secs - Mercedes-McLaren SLR
1 min 21.9 secs - Ford GT
1 min 22.3 secs - Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
1 min 22.3 secs - Porsche 911 GT3 RS
1 min 22.6 secs - Westfield XTR2 <-----------------
1 min 23.7 secs - Lamborghini Murcielago (2nd run)
1 min 23.8 secs - Pagani Zonda C12 S
1 min 23.9 secs - Koenigsegg CC8S
1 min 24.0 secs - Ariel Atom
1 min 25.0 secs - Caterham R400
1 min 25.0 secs - Noble M12 GTO-3
1 min 25.8 secs - Lamborghini Gallardo e-gear (Wet)
1 min 26.0 secs - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR FQ-320
1 min 26.8 secs - Chevrolet Corvette C6
1 min 26.9 secs - Lotus Exige S2 (Wet)
1 min 27.0 secs - TVR T350C
1 min 27.2 secs - Porsche 911 GT3 (Wet)
1 min 27.3 secs - Spyker C8
1 min 28.0 secs - BMW M3 CSL (Dry/Damp)
1 min 28.2 secs - Lotus Elise Sport 190
1 min 28.7 secs - MTM Bimoto
1 min 28.9 secs - Mitsubishi EVO VIII FQ-300
1 min 29.0 secs - Lamborghini Murcielago
1 min 29.0 secs - Mercedes-Benz CL65 AMG
1 min 29.0 secs - BMW Alpina Z8
1 min 29.4 secs - AS One
1 min 29.4 secs - Subaru Impreza WRX STi WR1
1 min 30.1 secs - Subaru Impreza Sti Type UK PPP
1 min 30.4 secs - Aston Martin DB7 GT
1 min 30.9 secs - Audi S4
1 min 31.0 secs - Porsche 911 Turbo (Wet)
1 min 31.3 secs - Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
1 min 31.6 secs - Honda NSX Type-R (Wet)
1 min 31.8 secs - BMW M3
1 min 31.8 secs - Mazda RX-8
1 min 31.8 secs - Nissan 350Z
1 min 32.5 secs - Lotus Esprit
1 min 32.9 secs - Noble M12 GTO (Wet)
1 min 33.2 secs - Mercedes SL 55 AMG (Wet)
1 min 33.2 secs - Honda NSX Type-R (Wet)
1 min 33.3 secs - VW Golf R32
1 min 33.7 secs - MG ZT260
1 min 33.8 secs - Ford Focus RS (32.2secs)
1 min 34.9 secs - Lotus Elise 111S (Wet)
1 min 35.0 secs - Volvo S60R
1 min 35.2 secs - Ferrari 575 Maranello (Wet)
1 min 35.6 secs - Alfa Romeo 147 GTA
1 min 36.2 secs - Aston Martin V12 Vanquish (Wet)
1 min 36.2 secs - Renault Clio V6 MKII (Wet)
1 min 38.0 secs - Maserati 3200GT (Wet)
1 min 38.0 secs - Honda Civic Type R
1 min 39.0 secs - Subaru Impreza WRX
1 min 40.0 secs - Bentley Arnage T (Wet)

I haven't got confirmation of the times, so take what you want from it...
 
Someone else can mark just what cars are in GT4...

But I remember watching most of those BBC Top Gear Episodes on BBC World...

Clarkson and the crew were very surprised with the C6 Corvette's time considering the what they called archaic suspension...

Pity Lotus (was it???) aren't doing improvements to the C6 like they did for the ZR-1... then it'd seriously be a weapon (more than it is anyhow).
 
just wait for the Z06. that's the flagship vette for pissing contests. I have a feeling they're cooking up something extra special.
 
hellnback
I do remember seeing the Radical's time over the Top Gear test track when I google-searched to find a complete list of lap times (This was before the times were added to the Top Gear site). I ended up on one of MANY sites that search which had the lap times, but one had a time with the Radical, as well as the Westfeild... if I remember rightly the Radical had a * mid to high 1'1x" * lap, possibly a low 1'1x", it was a little quicker than the Westfeild.

I could try to find the site but it'd take me forever again, and it's 2.55am here right now...

Actually I did search for you (at 3am I might add) and found this one...

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=109358

1 min 19.0 secs - Radical SR3 <------------------
1 min 19.8 secs - Porsche CGT
1 min 20.9 secs - Mercedes-McLaren SLR
1 min 21.9 secs - Ford GT
1 min 22.3 secs - Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
1 min 22.3 secs - Porsche 911 GT3 RS
1 min 22.6 secs - Westfield XTR2 <-----------------
1 min 23.7 secs - Lamborghini Murcielago (2nd run)
1 min 23.8 secs - Pagani Zonda C12 S
1 min 23.9 secs - Koenigsegg CC8S
1 min 24.0 secs - Ariel Atom
1 min 25.0 secs - Caterham R400
1 min 25.0 secs - Noble M12 GTO-3
1 min 25.8 secs - Lamborghini Gallardo e-gear (Wet)
1 min 26.0 secs - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR FQ-320
1 min 26.8 secs - Chevrolet Corvette C6
1 min 26.9 secs - Lotus Exige S2 (Wet)
1 min 27.0 secs - TVR T350C
1 min 27.2 secs - Porsche 911 GT3 (Wet)
1 min 27.3 secs - Spyker C8
1 min 28.0 secs - BMW M3 CSL (Dry/Damp)
1 min 28.2 secs - Lotus Elise Sport 190
1 min 28.7 secs - MTM Bimoto
1 min 28.9 secs - Mitsubishi EVO VIII FQ-300
1 min 29.0 secs - Lamborghini Murcielago
1 min 29.0 secs - Mercedes-Benz CL65 AMG
1 min 29.0 secs - BMW Alpina Z8
1 min 29.4 secs - AS One
1 min 29.4 secs - Subaru Impreza WRX STi WR1
1 min 30.1 secs - Subaru Impreza Sti Type UK PPP
1 min 30.4 secs - Aston Martin DB7 GT
1 min 30.9 secs - Audi S4
1 min 31.0 secs - Porsche 911 Turbo (Wet)
1 min 31.3 secs - Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
1 min 31.6 secs - Honda NSX Type-R (Wet)
1 min 31.8 secs - BMW M3
1 min 31.8 secs - Mazda RX-8
1 min 31.8 secs - Nissan 350Z
1 min 32.5 secs - Lotus Esprit
1 min 32.9 secs - Noble M12 GTO (Wet)
1 min 33.2 secs - Mercedes SL 55 AMG (Wet)
1 min 33.2 secs - Honda NSX Type-R (Wet)
1 min 33.3 secs - VW Golf R32
1 min 33.7 secs - MG ZT260
1 min 33.8 secs - Ford Focus RS (32.2secs)
1 min 34.9 secs - Lotus Elise 111S (Wet)
1 min 35.0 secs - Volvo S60R
1 min 35.2 secs - Ferrari 575 Maranello (Wet)
1 min 35.6 secs - Alfa Romeo 147 GTA
1 min 36.2 secs - Aston Martin V12 Vanquish (Wet)
1 min 36.2 secs - Renault Clio V6 MKII (Wet)
1 min 38.0 secs - Maserati 3200GT (Wet)
1 min 38.0 secs - Honda Civic Type R
1 min 39.0 secs - Subaru Impreza WRX
1 min 40.0 secs - Bentley Arnage T (Wet)

I haven't got confirmation of the times, so take what you want from it...
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Good find and ah it was the Gt3 I was thinking about not the T350C. Thanks !!
 
My most recent update is based on something I kind of mentioned some time ago. I did some searching so you don't have to. Ladies and gentlemen, here is a little picture of the Dodge Stratus Super Touring Car from 1997 from the failed North American Touring Car Championship. In fact, this car won the championship. I think he won every race except Laguna Seca (the finale):

http://www.prioritydesigns.com/sven/images/natcc2.jpg

Want more pictures of cars from the NATCC? Here's 14 more pictures of this 1997 racing series: http://www.prioritydesigns.com/sven/images/natccpage.html
 
GT4 should have the most powerful production vette of all time.

That's right folks...THE 1968 L88

or maybe the XP882 concept, just for it's wierdness.
 

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Before beginning, I'd like to congratulate Mat Mladin for winning the AMA Superbike Championship finale at Road Atlanta. Good job, mate!

So someone decided to bring back my thread on American Cars. After seeing this car in pictures and on TV, I'm starting to have some pretty good respect for the latest Mustang. I have to hand credit to Ford. They took three classics and made them all into pretty nice machines. Since this car is fairly new, all us GT Players may only get is the Ford Mustang Concept Car. Here's what I heard. I heard it can do 0-60 in 5.1 seconds (Motor Trend), and starts at $19,410 (Houston Chronicle). Newbies to cars may think it's a cool machine while long-time enthusiasts can see the perfect chemistry: take a car from the past, modernize it, kind of maintain the old style of the car, and basically bring back classic design. The newest Mustang is basically all you can ask for and more. Believe it or not, I actually like this machine. And if PD wants to put in a few more wild horses... uh, the Mustang, not horsepower. I'm PRETTY sure it has that already. Anyways... a few more Mustangs into GT4. Our own "98Cobra" can roll with that, as he wants a few more 'Stangs. I would like to have this car in Gran Turismo 4, but if it doesn't make it, that's okay. I'm sure there will be at least one more Mustang I'll like.

In a future post, I want to talk more about the Chrysler ME412. But if you want to start before I do, help yourself to reply. Holla' back, players.
 
JohnBM01
Before beginning, I'd like to congratulate Mat Mladin for winning the AMA Superbike Championship finale at Road Atlanta. Good job, mate!

So someone decided to bring back my thread on American Cars. After seeing this car in pictures and on TV, I'm starting to have some pretty good respect for the latest Mustang. I have to hand credit to Ford. They took three classics and made them all into pretty nice machines. Since this car is fairly new, all us GT Players may only get is the Ford Mustang Concept Car. Here's what I heard. I heard it can do 0-60 in 5.1 seconds (Motor Trend), and starts at $19,410 (Houston Chronicle). Newbies to cars may think it's a cool machine while long-time enthusiasts can see the perfect chemistry: take a car from the past, modernize it, kind of maintain the old style of the car, and basically bring back classic design. The newest Mustang is basically all you can ask for and more. Believe it or not, I actually like this machine. And if PD wants to put in a few more wild horses... uh, the Mustang, not horsepower. I'm PRETTY sure it has that already. Anyways... a few more Mustangs into GT4. Our own "98Cobra" can roll with that, as he wants a few more 'Stangs. I would like to have this car in Gran Turismo 4, but if it doesn't make it, that's okay. I'm sure there will be at least one more Mustang I'll like.

In a future post, I want to talk more about the Chrysler ME412. But if you want to start before I do, help yourself to reply. Holla' back, players.
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Yeah, it's a cool car. MT got a 13.6 in the 1/4 with an automatic. :eek: I think it'll be a nice addition.

Ahh, the Chrysler ME412 :drool: I would definitely love to see that car in GT4. 👍
 

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