Another 2 years?!?!

[RazorsEdge]

Exactly!👍

I have a question...
Do any of you care about the 'museum' or the cards that we get?
Do any of you care about the 'horns' in the game?
How about the 'Demo' option of the cars?
I'd even assume we could all agree to get rid of the 'paint chip' system that GT5 uses.

I'm not a programmer, but I assume the 4 above options combined, took a lot of time, effort and space, all of which add absolutely nothing to the game 'for me'.

How many of you would sacrifice 3 'multi-models' for 1 premium, or another RM?
I understand that some models have stand out editions, that justify more than 1 in the game. But did we really need so many Skylines, Miata's, FTO's, Ford GT's, and so on?

I'm actually satisfied with GT5. It took too long, it has issues, but it's still the best racing game I've played.

You really said it.👍👍

 

[analog]

Still you have to comment on that... and I didn't say anything against someone or someones opinion! I just said what I and that's just my point of view thinks and I would have said the same if this would be a real life conversation whatsoever...

I didn't question your freedom to have an opinion or that your opinion shouldn't oppose or even ridicule someone else's for that matter.
I mainly questioned the fact you seemed to arrive at your opinion (which ridiculed the notion of engine swaps and custom liveries) without having the knowledge they're a common real life occurence which you yourself later admitted to lack after someone pointed this out to you.

I'm neither blaming you for lacking this knowledge, just trying to point out that an opinion based on lack of knowledge can't really be taken serious especially one that mocks another based on that knowledge, not saying you can't therefor not have one as it's your choice to express it even if it doesn't make sense.

If you had the same opinion but could defend or explain it with 'proper' arguments (for example, engine swaps have no place in a GT-game as cars should remain largely as they were designed to be, or custom liveries would potentially create online obscenities, etc.) you still wouldn't persuade me (as I'd love both to be included) but I'd respect it more since there's reasoning behind it.
Having an opinion isn't hard, having a well founded opinion requires at least some knowledge on the subject, hence there are many, many subjects I have absolutely no opinion about.

 

[freedomweasel]

But wait, freedomweasel who is famous for achieving erm nothing knows better. And I'm the one accused of having superiority complex!? Has the whole world turned upside-down?

How about we keep the personal attacks to minimum (ie zero), especially being that it has zero relevance to the conversation. Why does it matter what I have achieved? How do you know what I have and have not achieved? You have no idea who I am or what I do for a living, and frankly, it doesn't matter anyway.
Kaz and PD are not infallible gods, they are people who made a video game. I see no problem with people voicing reasonable comments and criticisms, I believe my comment to be reasonable.

Secondly, I accused you of nothing.

My only point is that perfectionists often need tighter management in order to get things finished and to be told what can and can't realistically be completed. GT5 seems to have too many ideas that were put into motion but never quite finished. Would 2 years have fixed it? I doubt it. It would have given them 2 more years to come up with even more ideas, I bet all the stuff we have now would be polished, but there would be just as many new things that would make people scratch their heads in confusion.

I simply think that someone needs to tell PD/Kaz that they can do X number of things, do them all well, make them "perfect", and release the game. They can then work on adding new features as they have time rather than working on patching in features and fixing all the problems.

It's hard to take the "perfectionist" comments seriously when the finished product looks more like it was created by people with too many ideas and either poor management or short attention spans.

 

[Exorcet]

I would've waited 2 years for it much better with DTM and FIA-GT.

GT5 could have been launched with the PS3, and it wouldn't keep us from getting DTM and FIA-GT in 2 years.

We're in the era of game updates. GT5's development cycle was completely messed up.

 

[DrJustice]

Maybe they made GT5 Prologue becuase of the impatient people.

GT5P sold around 5 million copies, almost as much as GT5 has sold so far. It was a commercial venture to generate cash, and a fairly succesful exercise in cashing in twice.

Which remind me:

Lots of people here seem to think that PD is making the GT series out of the good of their hearts with divine inspiration, and that we should be eternally thankful. Meanwhile, back in the real world, GT is big business and PD's primary function is to make money, and that money is coming from us. Always worth remembering.

DJ
--

 

[freedomweasel]

Lots of people here seem to think that PD is making the GT series out of the good of their hearts with divine inspiration, and that we should be eternally thankful. Meanwhile, back in the real world, GT is big business and PD's primary function is to make money, and that money is coming from us. Always worth remembering.

DJ
--

Thank you.
That seems to be a common disconnect. I've seen very few other businesses that have the same sort of fans as PD. Note "same sort of" not, "same amount". Plenty of companies/franchises have a following, but it usually seems that most understand the bottom line. It doesn't seem to be the case around here.

 

[LVracerGT]

GT5P sold around 5 million copies, almost as much as GT5 has sold so far. It was a commercial venture to generate cash, and a fairly succesful exercise in cashing in twice.

Which remind me:

Lots of people here seem to think that PD is making the GT series out of the good of their hearts with divine inspiration, and that we should be eternally thankful. Meanwhile, back in the real world, GT is big business and PD's primary function is to make money, and that money is coming from us. Always worth remembering.

DJ
--

Yes the money comes from us. But PD has expectations to live up to both from what we expect as a growing series, and what they advertise. And when PD talks about head tracking, incredible damage models, etc that the game fails to deliver as promised, that money that comes from me feels like it could have been spent better elsewhere. And the main thing PD has to realize is that when they fail to meet expectations and their competitors deliver, that money is going to be spent on the competitor.

Not to put Forza up in a GT forum because I am a GT fanboy, but for fun I researched Forza 4 last night. It looks amazing, it has a very decent amount of cars, it will have headtracking via the kinect that will almost guaranteed work in all modes, upped its online to 16 cars and is adding more features to it's already impressive online functionality. I hate to say this but I wish it was coming to PS3.

 

[freedomweasel]

Yes the money comes from us. But PD has expectations to live up to both from what we expect as a growing series, and what they advertise. And when PD talks about head tracking, incredible damage models, etc that the game fails to deliver as promised, that money that comes from me feels like it could have been spent better elsewhere.

Unless I misread the post entirely, I think that was his entire point. We (indirectly) pay their salaries. They're a business and exist to make money. If their product isn't doing what the customer wants, they will make less money.

 

[I<3Cars]

I've figured it out!!!
Kaz wanted 2 more years so he could finish the game properly.
The 5 years wait is because Vettel couldn't do Suzuka in the X1.

Edit: 100th post on this thread!!!!

 

[Willfred_1]

And why on earth would you like to give the left wheel more camber than the right wheel?

i can clearly see from this comment u don't know how to setup a car for Motorsport
the reason why u would have more camber one wheel or a side is the track might be and oval track with little on no banking(indy) by adding camber u can enter at higher speeds as there is now a larger contact patch on the tyre with the camber due to body roll
may i suggest u do your research before making a comment like that

 

[tinram]

I have a question...
Do any of you care about the 'museum' or the cards that we get?
Do any of you care about the 'horns' in the game?
How about the 'Demo' option of the cars?
I'd even assume we could all agree to get rid of the 'paint chip' system that GT5 uses.

I'm not a programmer, but I assume the 4 above options combined, took a lot of time, effort and space, all of which add absolutely nothing to the game 'for me'.

How many of you would sacrifice 3 'multi-models' for 1 premium, or another RM?
I understand that some models have stand out editions, that justify more than 1 in the game. But did we really need so many Skylines, Miata's, FTO's, Ford GT's, and so on?

I'm actually satisfied with GT5. It took too long, it has issues, but it's still the best racing game I've played.

Not quite ...
* I like the museum cars, i like reading about historical facts, it's a nice touch.
*Horn ... i don't get it, why did pd do horns? It would have been better if we can change the lights, with weather and night races it would have been appropriate.
*Demo ... i like, but do not use it anymore since i have all that cars that i could dream of.
*Paint Chip, i definitely like, i would not want something like shift2 where you choose colors based on a slider . Paint chips are quite more realistic with company standard colors and what not. But i would like it better if we could buy just the paint and not the car to get the paint.

On the number of editions, If less skylines would mean more of other cars then i would go for it. But i think since the models are the same and probably reused, I do not think more of the same models equate to less of the other models.

 

[Basilea]

I didn't question your freedom to have an opinion or that your opinion shouldn't oppose or even ridicule someone else's for that matter.
I mainly questioned the fact you seemed to arrive at your opinion (which ridiculed the notion of engine swaps and custom liveries) without having the knowledge they're a common real life occurence which you yourself later admitted to lack after someone pointed this out to you.

I'm neither blaming you for lacking this knowledge, just trying to point out that an opinion based on lack of knowledge can't really be taken serious especially one that mocks another based on that knowledge, not saying you can't therefor not have one as it's your choice to express it even if it doesn't make sense.

If you had the same opinion but could defend or explain it with 'proper' arguments (for example, engine swaps have no place in a GT-game as cars should remain largely as they were designed to be, or custom liveries would potentially create online obscenities, etc.) you still wouldn't persuade me (as I'd love both to be included) but I'd respect it more since there's reasoning behind it.
Having an opinion isn't hard, having a well founded opinion requires at least some knowledge on the subject, hence there are many, many subjects I have absolutely no opinion about.

I know that custom liveries exist, but didn't know that it is a big thing (still doubt it a bit as I have barely seen a car with a custom livery) and as said in the end I'm happy about everything PD gives us. But I also think there should be some ristrictions on what you can or can't. Someone said before that in real life noone drives around with a di** on his car and therefore noone will in GT5, this isn't a very good argument, because GT5 is a game and you can change everything whenever you want, without paying for...

Engine swaps sounds interesting, but don't you think that if you can do this in online mode everyone is driving with the strongest possible engine?

 

[dschoene]

as said in the end I'm happy about everything PD gives us.

Wow, unlike about 17.000.000 other people, you would really have liked life in the former G.D.R. with that sort of attitude.

 

[Devedander]

I wouldve prefered a perfected version for a longer wait over some quick half-assed GT5.

Unfortunately I think that's a false dichotomy...

In reality the choices were probably an unfinished GT5 now, a less unfinished GT5 later or a slightly less unifinshed GT5 10 years from now.

You are right I'm not a huge car/racing kind of person and I don't know that much about it. I try to figure out how it works right now and it's already complicated enough...

But in the end I'm just happy about everything that PD add to the game! For me there are more and less important things to do... that's personal preference!

That's fine, but then don't take a stand based on your position of ignorance and then try to rebut someone elses statements with it.

There is a reason I don't argue with my doctor about how to do a surgery and question why anyone would use antibiotics....

You don't mind or miss it? That's fine... It's already too complex for you? OK.

But don't try and blanket other people with that reasoning... quantum phsyics is too complicated for me to thoroughly grasp, but I don't try debate them for wanting to progress it further...

 

[analog]

I know that custom liveries exist, but didn't know that it is a big thing (still doubt it a bit as I have barely seen a car with a custom livery) and as said in the end I'm happy about everything PD gives us. But I also think there should be some ristrictions on what you can or can't. Someone said before that in real life noone drives around with a di** on his car and therefore noone will in GT5, this isn't a very good argument, because GT5 is a game and you can change everything whenever you want, without paying for...

Engine swaps sounds interesting, but don't you think that if you can do this in online mode everyone is driving with the strongest possible engine?

Almost every single racing car today has a livery, most of them are unique (unless they're part of a team with similar liveries) and therefor these can be regarded as custom made liveries as each has to be designed and made for that car, the inclusion of a livery editor makes it possible that you and I can create our own unique livery in a videogame just like they do in real life, or can replicate an existing real life livery.
If some use this to create offensive material on their cars than so be it (to me the ability to create is more important than the subsequent unfortunate side-effects, not more annoying than the distasteful and hideous cars already present due to the paintshop in my opinion, which I welcome by the way, the paintshop that is).

There is a thread dedicated to engine swaps (and one for a livery editor) somewhere where I already contributed my views on the possibilities, and limitations needed for it to work.
You effectively create a new car, and the worry for people putting in the strongest engine (for that particular car, not all engines for all cars) online is probably just as 'troublesome' as people using the fastest car in its class right now.
There's PP or power and weight limitations remember? A car with a different engine just has a different PP number (maybe even the same as a fully tuned one using the original engine...).
In fact one of the cars included in GT5 was basically created due to an engine swap and further developed after that, the Shelby (and AC) Cobra which started out as a AC Ace, a small British sportscar with a Bristol 2 litre straight-six, and after Caroll Shelby put in an American Ford V8 to race it, it eventually evolved into an entirely different car (yes I know that's probably not the entire story...).

 

[freedomweasel]

Not quite ...
*Paint Chip, i definitely like, i would not want something like shift2 where you choose colors based on a slider . Paint chips are quite more realistic with company standard colors and what not. But i would like it better if we could buy just the paint and not the car to get the paint.

As a heads up, if you go into the livery menu there are the factory standard paint colors for each car. Same as in Forza, you can give the car a factory paint color, or mix your own shade.. just like in real life. GT5 has perhaps the most absurd painting setup of any racing game I've played.

If you could just buy the paint chips from the paint shop as you suggest I'd be okay with it, but what sort of shop operates like the one in GT?

 

[Basilea]

Wow, unlike about 17.000.000 other people, you would really have liked life in the former G.D.R. with that sort of attitude.

You are a very funny guy 👎

Unfortunately I think that's a false dichotomy...

In reality the choices were probably an unfinished GT5 now, a less unfinished GT5 later or a slightly less unifinshed GT5 10 years from now.



That's fine, but then don't take a stand based on your position of ignorance and then try to rebut someone elses statements with it.

There is a reason I don't argue with my doctor about how to do a surgery and question why anyone would use antibiotics....

You don't mind or miss it? That's fine... It's already too complex for you? OK.

But don't try and blanket other people with that reasoning... quantum phsyics is too complicated for me to thoroughly grasp, but I don't try debate them for wanting to progress it further...

Why am I ignorant? I just said in the first place that there are more important things to do and I don't believe anyone disagree with that?

 

[Stevisiov]

They could have achieved a lot more in 2 years, but at some point, you just have to release the game.

With car models taking so long to make, its hard to imagine them going to the trouble of making a whole new set of models for the PS3. Hopefully the current cars will simply carry over for the next 2 iterations of the series.

 

[freedomweasel]

Why am I ignorant? I just said in the first place that there are more important things to do and I don't believe anyone disagree with that?

You said yourself that you aren't a huge car person and don't know much about racing, and that GT5 is complicated enough as it is.

Being ignorant of all the ins and outs isn't necessarily bad, but if someone says for example: "GT5 would be better with adjustable tire pressure", you can't really refute that by saying "I don't agree because I wouldn't use it because I don't know how, and don't care".

Many of the features being discussed, like engine swaps and liveries, are present in other games and are very present and important in real life.

 

[tinram]

You said yourself that you aren't a huge car person and don't know much about racing, and that GT5 is complicated enough as it is.

Being ignorant of all the ins and outs isn't necessarily bad, but if someone says for example: "GT5 would be better with adjustable tire pressure", you can't really refute that by saying "I don't agree because I wouldn't use it because I don't know how, and don't care".

Many of the features being discussed, like engine swaps and liveries, are present in other games and are very present and important in real life.

I agree that all of those features are important but only if the foundation on physics is good. Otherwise changing tire pressure may affect the driving characteristics but if it was wrong to begin with then it would be useless.

Some games calling themselves the most realistic racer ever BS has a lot of features to change, but it's foundation is not physics at least not good physics, so it's just useless.

 

[I<3Cars]

Recieved your medal yet??

What medal?

 

[TheTechnobear]

2 extra years, so taking to 7 years , lol

That is a "death march" project, software development has moved on, if kaz has not realized that, then that is a worry for the GT series.
Frequent releases, with incremental improvements is how we do software today.
We will be seeing more yearly releases and more dlc ( which are also incremental releases really)

 

[mirial]

The brilliance in the game is in the physics, which possibly explains why it took rather a long time to develop. Yamauchi-San is clearly a very passionate man who has put his life and soul into GT, looks to have at least come close to producing his dream.

It is shame all the brilliant detail that is conducive to the handling physics seems to be acknowledged only by a few. And the effort that has gone into the all weather tracks...these guys are Japanese and have incredible focus, so if they can't do it, then I doubt anyone else can.

No one is qualified to crticise this game, and this is further supported by the fact that none of the ten finalists at GT Academy last year were deemed not good enough to become a professional.

To appreciate it properly, it is worth while turning off all the driver assists (ABS included) that are akin to riding a push bike with stabilisers in a space suit.

 

[DenYaSon]

why can't they do a better version of google street view. i find the 3d studio type interiors to be too plasticky and unrealistic- why can't they just map photo's to the interiors so we get that realistic look and it is quicker. we dont need realism to be over the top and compromise the game itself. gt5 is half a game with lots of features left out or half done. why have 200 premium. i would rather have 20,000 cars in high def than a mere 1000. kaz is so arrogant- he feels he is the god. in fact the consumer should be god, without us they will be nothing.

 

[freedomweasel]

No one is qualified to crticise this game, and this is further supported by the fact that none of the ten finalists at GT Academy last year were deemed not good enough to become a professional.

Negative. We are qualified to criticize it because we are customers. If you buy a car and it has terrible reliability you complain about it don't you? I'm not an automotive engineer but I sure as heck say they should have designed a better fuel pump. Do you treat all your purchases this way? If you buy something that does not perform to your expectations, or up to the advertised features, you simply accept it because you aren't "qualified"?

Who, in your opinion, is "qualified" to criticize this game?

As for GT Academy, professional racing has just as much (if not more) to do with money as it does with talent. There are plenty of talented drivers, likely more talented than many professionals that simply can't come up with the funds.
At every level of racing there are drivers who are paying their own way (ie not getting paid) or bought their seat on the team.

 

[RacerPaul]

Hi all I'm a long time GT fan, and my GT life has gone like this...

Rented GT2 in a video store and was immediately hooked

Was very keen to get GT3 on PS2 and was very happy when it arrived

Got caught up in the hysteria of wanting and waiting for GT4, so far as to book a day off work to get
it as soon as the shop opened

Got a PS3 in anticipation of GT5 but wasn't quite so nutty about waiting for it this time, because I
was getting used to the PD waiting game and there were some good driving games about

GT6? Yep, I'll get it but I'm not at all fussed about when it'll arrive because there are many good racing
games on PS3 at the moment, and will be before GT6 arrives

I'm still a fan, I love the way GT5 drives and can live with its quirks 👍

ps. Got GT1 retrospectively, sometime before GT3

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

1. Race mods. Very popular with GT2 -> removed
2. B-Spec. Very cleverly implemented in GT4 -> removed and re-added in a useless fashion
3. Qualifying. Very welcomed addition -> removed
4. Popular Tracks like Amalfi, Citta d'Aria, Midlfield -> removed and substituted by bland sceneries like Cape Ring

Quite frankly it looks as if they deliberately try to remove features that become too popular *shrug*

^ My take:

1. Race mods. Very popular with GT2 and GT1 -> removed (somewhat)
3. Qualifying. Very welcomed addition, was featured in GT1 only -> removed
4. Popular Tracks like Amalfi, Citta d'Aria, Midlfield not to mention Special Stage R11 '90s (GT1) and '00 (GT3), Grindelwald, Red Rock Valley, Pikes Peak, and Complex String -> removed and substituted by bland sceneries like Cape Ring complex of tracks

-> Shall I add?

5. Boost controller for modified turbo engines. Was featured in GT1 -> removed
6. Horsepower restrictions. Was only featured in GT2 -> removed
7. Manufacturer Races. Last featured in GT4 -> removed
8. Car class category (Class-A, Class-B, etc.). Was strongly applied on both GT1 and GT2, but was last featured on GT3 -> removed to replace with PP instead
9. A-Spec points from GT4 -> removed
10. Some of the rarest of cars from GT2 like Tom's Angel T01, Honda (of Europe) Accord Type-R, TVR Speed 12 Concept, Dodge Concept Car (aka. Dodge Copperhead), Plymouth PT Spyder, and TRD (MR-2) 2000GT -> removed

This thread is full of WIN.

^ Not win...

 

[mirial]

The brilliance is in the physics that has been adapted to all the cars, not to mention the real-to-life adjustments you can make. Do you know what? You can even alter the amount of chemical and mechanical friction just by changing the camber, and they have even gone to the trouble of refining the characteristics between the different tyre makes on the Super GTs.

As for purchases, depends on what I'm paying for it, and £40 for racing/driving sim is pretty good value for money. It's flaws however are very trivial and most are non-value added for me personally, but the essence of it is so good, I just put up without the things that would be nice to have. I have never read so many trivial complaints that seem to over shadow what is essentially a brilliant work.

As for the GT driving talent, there are quite a few, but unfortunately quite a lot that should be at the finals don't make it probably because the rules are that you only have to set one fast lap, and quite a lot are prepared to put in ten hours a day just to get their lucky lap.

 

[Exorcet]

GT5 could have been launched with the PS3, and it wouldn't keep us from getting DTM and FIA-GT in 2 years.

We're in the era of game updates. GT5's development cycle was completely messed up.

I'm afraid it is more serious than that Ecoret.

Care to explain? Release date has nothing to do with how complete a game is when you can completely change the game at any point. GT5 as it is now can be wiped away in an instant and replaced with something better should PD decide to change it [hopefully for the better].

The fact that there aren't more GT cars in the game now tells you nothing about 2 years from now.

 

[LVracerGT]

The brilliance is in the physics that has been adapted to all the cars, not to mention the real-to-life adjustments you can make. Do you know what? You can even alter the amount of chemical and mechanical friction just by changing the camber, and they have even gone to the trouble of refining the characteristics between the different tyre makes on the Super GTs.

First off, the physics in GT5 do feel good. But it's not supported by numbers.

GTR2 - released in 2006, has one of the best physics engines I've driven, apart from iRacing. But iRacing gets manufacturer data to build their physics with, so comparing them to anybody is pretty pointless.

Anyways, GTR2. Everything is reflected with real life numbers in GTR2. Camber values, spring rates, caster angles, fast and slow bump and rebound for shocks, tire pressures, and you can adjust them at all four wheels individually. On top of that, you get tire temperature telemetry, in real time if you want to. THAT tells me the physics have been based off of real life values put into a language that the sim can understand and turn into info I can look at to make changes on the car. GT5 has nothing of the sort. Almost all of the setup numbers are rubbish, a system PD came up with just to give something to move that will make a change, and it's almost impossible to feel the change after you've made it. So the physics IMHO aren't really that great either.

Also, there is no evidence that GT used different tire makes on the Super GT cars. And going off of the thread about tire testing here on gtplanet, GT5 doesn't take into account tire sizes/width. I've done some modding and I know for a fact GTR2 does. And that in itself tells me how flawed GT5's physics really are. If something so simple like that is overlooked, what else is wrong? GTR2 even calculates fluid motion of the fuel in the fuel tank and where to put the weight of the fuel as it moves. Where is the attention to detail you pride yourself so much on Kaz? Becasue that kind of attention to detail is worth a lot more than a laser scanned effing interior I don't use anyway because it's rubbish. And before anyone attacks me on that, GT5 is the ONLY racing game/sim I do not use cockpit view.

I will say however, that GT5 nailed the way motion transfer is relayed through FFB.