Another 2 years?!?!

[blaze191]

What, did Kaz expect the gaming world to just sort of stop and wait for him to finish what he started? In two years he would have had to contend with DiRT 3, Shift 2, and possibly GRiD 2 as well. GT5 is unfinished now, and Kaz just would have been playing catch up for 2 extra years. Honestly, PD needs to find out what "time management" means...

 

[Hubble83]

I think PD needs new management in general. I started playing GT since GT2 and and enjoyed them incredibly, but since the release of GT5, my faith in the Kaz and the company has dropped considerably.

 

[luisgo98]

hey 6 months a premium car is worth it have you seen the interiors when taking pictures ????

 

[mirial]

LVRacerGT - I respect your point of view, and I didn't know that PD had already paved the way for motion transfer through FFB.

It sounds like GTR2 is a job in itself to to get a car set up. And in all honesty, I think if PD kept the physics as they are, and created an optional car balance setting, understeer, neutral, and oversteer, the game from a racing point of view would be much simpler and better as everyone would just get on with the driving. You could choose what balance suits each of the tracks.

PD would have been much better channelling their efforts into the game for the racing purists (I haven't heard too many moans from that fraternity) because it's nearly all there for club racers and the like. By partially adapting it for the Max Power brigade, they have put themselves in an almost impossible situation, what with kids wanting to turbocharge a P330 etc etc, and hawked-eyed career gamers bitching that the shine isn't bright enough on some of the cars' badges. PD will be in trouble if they take note of all the bitching because it 'll take a quarter of a century to meet the demands of casual gamers.

 

[LVracerGT]

LVRacerGT - I respect your point of view, and I didn't know that PD had already paved the way for motion transfer through FFB.

It sounds like GTR2 is a job in itself to to get a car set up. And in all honesty, I think if PD kept the physics as they are, and created an optional car balance setting, understeer, neutral, and oversteer, the game from a racing point of view would be much simpler and better as everyone would just get on with the driving. You could choose what balance suits each of the tracks.

PD would have been much better channelling their efforts into the game for the racing purists (I haven't heard too many moans from that fraternity) because it's nearly all there for club racers and the like. By partially adapting it for the Max Power brigade, they have put themselves in an almost impossible situation, what with kids wanting to turbocharge a P330 etc etc, and hawked-eyed career gamers bitching that the shine isn't bright enough on some of the cars' badges. PD will be in trouble if they take note of all the bitching because it 'll take a quarter of a century to meet the demands of casual gamers.

I'm sure some people like the slider system, but IMHO that is for arcade racers and has no place in a driving/racing sim. If they were to do it that way they might as well take out all the adjustments period and just call it another run of the mill racing game.

But you are right, if they listened to all the bitching complaints it would take forever to complete, but it would not if they just take note of the all the things GT is lacking that it's competitors are adopting. And these things are leaving GT in the dust.

 

[BarronGeddon]

What, did Kaz expect the gaming world to just sort of stop and wait for him to finish what he started? In two years he would have had to contend with DiRT 3, Shift 2, and possibly GRiD 2 as well. GT5 is unfinished now, and Kaz just would have been playing catch up for 2 extra years. Honestly, PD needs to find out what "time management" means...

GT5 first week sales: 2,400,000 (worldwide).

Shift 2 PS3 first week sales: 77,000 (worldwide).

Kaz does not have to contend with games like DiRT 3, Shift 2 or GRiD 2.

Your advice to PD is mute.

I think PD needs new management in general. I started playing GT since GT2 and and enjoyed them incredibly, but since the release of GT5, my faith in the Kaz and the company has dropped considerably.

I'm sure Kaz is mortified.

 

[LVracerGT]

GT5 first week sales: 2,400,000 (worldwide).

Shift 2 PS3 first week sales: 77,000 (worldwide).

Kaz does not have to contend with games like DiRT 3, Shift 2 or GRiD 2.

Kaz certainly does have to contend with other racing games. It's the competition. And I would hope after 5 years of hype that the first week sales of GT5 would be off the charts. It's unfair to compare GT5 with Shift 2 - a series that is only 2 years old with only a few months of advertising, none of which came with support of Sony.

 

[BarronGeddon]

Kaz certainly does have to contend with other racing games. It's the competition. And I would hope after 5 years of hype that the first week sales of GT5 would be off the charts. It's unfair to compare GT5 with Shift 2 - a series that is only 2 years old with only a few months of advertising, none of which came with support of Sony.

It's perfectly fair considering it was blaze191's original point.

In two years he would have had to contend with DiRT 3, Shift 2, and possibly GRiD 2 as well.

Here's a graph to illustrate my point further.

 

[LVracerGT]

It's perfectly fair considering it was blaze191's original point.

Your point is actually moot, his point was at the time GT5 would have been released it would have had to contend with Shift2, Dirt 3, and possibly Grid2. And since no one knows what the sales numbers would be by the time that had occurred, your point has no validity.

Who knows, there could have been a Shift 3 by that time. Another 2 years would have made it November 2012. That's still over a year away. I bet there will be quite a few racing titles between now and then. And I can guarantee you if GT5 was still in development, Shift 2's sales numbers would have been a lot higher.

 

[freedomweasel]

As another little bit of sales data: a quick google (may be wrong), shows Forza 3 as having nearly 5 million sales. Yes, less than GT5, and yes it's been out longer. On the other hand, xbox hasn't been around as long as the Playstation, and Forza obviously hasn't been around as long as GT.
There certainly is competition.

In addition to all that, sales numbers don't mean a product is actually good.

 

[ItsHim]

And I can guarantee you if GT5 was still in development, Shift 2's sales numbers would have been a lot higher.

That's very true. I for one simply loved Shift because it followed a route Codemaster's took with TOCA back in the days but fell short a bit with Grid.

But there's still too much for me to do in GT5 so having another driving game makes no sense for me. I'll get it eventually but not in the crucial 6 weeks after release all publishers are so keen to sell their titles.

Anyway I can see where the development time of GT went - and where they had to cut corners.

But then again I just want to go out and drive the cars and enjoy the signature feel many of them have to them. Especially in Arcade mode which feels so much better than A spec.

And I welcome the limits of tuning. Usually you can tune a car in other console racers so that they loose any quirks. With GT you can tame them a bit to fit the track but still have to work with the general nature of the given car. I'm so sick of tuning being a way to exploit glitches in the Physics engine or turn any car in a magic hovercraft to give you a couple of tenths to make it to the Top of the LB.

Good thing Kaz didn't get the additional 2 years. To me, GT5 isn't perfect but gets the job done nicely: drive a huge amount of different cars and enjoy myself.

 

[Bigbazz]

Do a comparison where you compare all of the sales of NFS games released during the GT5 development. Then do another comparing the sales of all the GT games released after GT4 with all of the NFS games in the same time frame.



Kaz is a perfectionist and he is a slow worker, he likes to sleep on things, to let things brew for a bit. He spends too much time on little things and small details. But it doesnt matter because it is his project and his game that he will develop how he wants to and in the order he wants to, he might not release it as fast as others could do but he does it his way, regardless of whether we like it or not.

He reminds me of me with my work, it is quite ridiculous but when he is happy it will be a good product. I doubt that Kaz is happy with GT5 but personally I think the game is great and it is probably my favourite all around racing game.



As for GTR2 - It runs the Rfactor physics engine, it is pretty good but I think in many ways GT5 manages to feel and react more realistically... atleast until you put racing tyres and/or high downforce on the cars, then things get weird, certaintly not as good as GTR2/Rfactor by a long way.

 

[Yev]

I would've waited 2 years for it much better with DTM and FIA-GT.

I wouldn't.
I've waited long enough and I'm happy with GT5 as it is.

 

[kazuyam]

''...Another 2 years...'' hey Kaz, just four words: shut the ***** up.

GT5 is rushed (A-Spec... ...what the hell???) and full of bugs (Nurb money glitch, shadows, many patches) and cost Sony one hell of a lot of money and time.
Kaz should be pleased enough that so many GT fans still bought this crap instead he is moaning and whining that he didn't had enough time. Seriously, Kaz... get lost!

Did this guy ever address any of our complains? NO, never, no feedback at all. Not even a ''yes we noticed but sorry we can't'' (for example, 'the shadows') He just kept doing 'his' private thing. I mean, doing B-Spec upgrades.

There are so many threads about wish lists and petitions and do we get at least a sign of 'thanks...' or 'hello...' or 'we noticed...'. NO

There are those academy challenges but... hey, what's the purpose. At the end, only one guy gets the chance to race in a real race car, out of 4 million users. This costs one hell of a lot of money to get going, sponsoring, marketing, insurance, professional training. Why not spend the same amount of money and effort into DLCs or upgrades for more then just one lucky talented guy can take use of it.

I regret spending so much money on that damn Signature Edition. That game was not worth the extras and mambo jumbo that went into the Sig Edition.

Oh, and before some smart guy comes and says: You, Sir, Kazuyam, should shut... The game has got a metacritic overall score of just 84. Not even a double A title, not to speak AAA.

 

[Blackex99]

''...Another 2 years...'' hey Kaz, just four words: shut the ***** up.

GT5 is rushed (A-Spec... ...what the hell???) and full of bugs (Nurb money glitch, shadows, many patches) and cost Sony one hell of a lot of money and time.
Kaz should be pleased enough that so many GT fans still bought this crap instead he is moaning and whining that he didn't had enough time. Seriously, Kaz... get lost!

Did this guy ever address any of our complains? NO, never, no feedback at all. Not even a ''yes we noticed but sorry we can't'' (for example, 'the shadows') He just kept doing 'his' private thing. I mean, doing B-Spec upgrades.

There are so many threads about wish lists and petitions and do we get at least a sign of 'thanks...' or 'hello...' or 'we noticed...'. NO

There are those academy challenges but... hey, what's the purpose. At the end, only one guy gets the chance to race in a real race car, out of 4 million users. This costs one hell of a lot of money to get going, sponsoring, marketing, insurance, professional training. Why not spend the same amount of money and effort into DLCs or upgrades for more then just one lucky talented guy can take use of it.

I regret spending so much money on that damn Signature Edition. That game was not worth the extras and mambo jumbo that went into the Sig Edition.

Oh, and before some smart guy comes and says: You, Sir, Kazuyam, should shut... The game has got a metacritic overall score of just 84. Not even a double A title, not to speak AAA.

Go play Forza nobody's stopping you buddy have fun.

 

[kazuyam]

Go play Forza nobody's stopping you buddy have fun.

Honestly, I was considering this. The trailer for the new Forza 4 ain't that bad afterall, actually very promising indeed. Finally a nice up to date Lemans LMP1 racing grid instead of that crippled Group C vs LMP1 vs Prototype GT1s races and the idea with opening doors, hood etc is nice together with kinect. I was hoping for something similar for GT5, as one trailer suggested but hey, he needed another 2 years but didn't got it. How many other 'not die hard fans' like you will he loose afterall then!?


Oh, and just for the record: Porsche

 

[trk29]

Even if he had another 5 years there would still be complaints you can't make everyone happy. I have my reservations about the game, but I love playing it and it hardly ever comes out of my system. Mostly just to watch movies.

 

[kazuyam]

Even if he had another 5 years there would still be complaints you can't make everyone happy. I have my reservations about the game, but I love playing it and it hardly ever comes out of my system. Mostly just to watch movies.

Agree, but still games with excellent critics did make more gamers happy then this.

The hype also was just too much

 

[LVracerGT]

The hype also was just too much

Does anyone remember the trailer with the Subaru rally car hitting nose first off a jump and crippling the front end? Or when it hit the wall at Nurburgring and the door fell off and the hatch flew open? Where are those damage physics? To me the "hype" was all just false advertising to increase sales. I almost feel cheated with the amount this game fails to deliver from what it promised.

Btw, I'm being so critical because I love the GT franchise. And I want to see it stay on top. But with the way it's going, that won't last much longer.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Does anyone remember the trailer with the Subaru rally car hitting nose first off a jump and crippling the front end? Or when it hit the wall at Nurburgring and the door fell off and the hatch flew open? Where are those damage physics? To me the "hype" was all just false advertising to increase sales. I almost feel cheated with the amount this game fails to deliver from what it promised.

Btw, I'm being so critical because I love the GT franchise. And I want to see it stay on top. But with the way it's going, that won't last much longer.

I agree with you totally. I remember before GT5 came out, we had damage to an extreme level like this at the demos:

But in GT5, damage is almost non-existent. I still can't imagine why this type of damage didn't make it into the game.

 

[SKOT_FREE]

Kaz certainly does have to contend with other racing games. It's the competition. And I would hope after 5 years of hype that the first week sales of GT5 would be off the charts. It's unfair to compare GT5 with Shift 2 - a series that is only 2 years old with only a few months of advertising, none of which came with support of Sony.

Uh you do know there was a Shift 1 and The Game was published by EA right? To say that the Biggest publisher in video games couldn't pull it together and advertise for their racing game is ridiculous. Like you said, GT5 is also the competition and EA knew they were going to have a battle on their hands.

 

[ItsHim]

Did this guy ever address any of our complains? NO, never, no feedback at all. Not even a ''yes we noticed but sorry we can't'' (for example, 'the shadows')

Oh, and before some smart guy comes and says: You, Sir, Kazuyam, should shut... The game has got a metacritic overall score of just 84. Not even a double A title, not to speak AAA.

I think you are talking through your hat.

Indeed numerous issues were addressed: the shadows were improved, the Standards look better, the G25 clutch works out of the box, the Vettel times were lowered, the licences got easier.

Well so much for constructive criticism.

 

[Devedander]

Even if he had another 5 years there would still be complaints you can't make everyone happy. I have my reservations about the game, but I love playing it and it hardly ever comes out of my system. Mostly just to watch movies.

"Can't please everyone" is a straw man.

Using it as some kind of excuse for massive shortcomings is like havinng a swimming pool where 3 kids drown a week and saying "well you can't save everyone"

 

[Dijital Majik]

Sony really needs to help Kaz seek a behavioural therapist. And I mean that in the most sincere way, he's the typical poster-boy for maladaptive perfectionism.

Now, I firmly used to be in the "he's a perfectionist, let him take his time" camp when it came to seeing any GT game being released. That was before I truly understood or researched perfectionism, despite being one myself. I now realise how wrong I was. That mentality of giving Kaz so much leeway and faith (both us and Sony execs), were simply enabling undesirable traits, by re-affirming his failures (primarily to meet targets; internal and external).

Here's a basic list of traits:
- Sets unrealistically high and achievable goals (1000 cars etc, 2 more years etc)
- Procrastination
- Low productivity as individuals lose time and energy on small irrelevant details of larger projects (Premium models extreme detailing etc)
- Focus on negatives and self-deprecation to excuse poor performance and seek sympathy or reaffirmations
- Never being satisfied or happy with finished work, even if it's of very high standard. (He's mentioned this in many interviews)

Maladaptive perfectionism is a horribly debilitating and vile condition that no person should have to suffer. It's awful to see someone else going through this. The pathological side of this condition can be overcome, without having to sacrifice the high standards we all expect from a GT game, there are plenty of high-achieving adaptive perfectionists out there.

I just hope somehow he can come to realise that it doesn't need to be the way it has been for him, he'll be much better for it. Selfishly, and seeing as this is a GT forum, so will we.

 

[GT-R4]

during the next two years, I can't play GT5 with half of my garage (300+-), in a dozen tracks... come come updates every week to gt5, with PSN in ON, of course!

 

[trk29]

"Can't please everyone" is a straw man.

When I said that I was thinking in general about anything that consumers purchase. Every product made is not for everyone. For instance Shift 2 is not for everyone. Without playing it but reading about it, the game did pretty well but from what I have heard the AI sucks so that might not please you (hence everyone).

I know GT5 has some (lots) drawbacks but it is a great game and I love playing it but it might not be for you or the next guy or there might be a lot of shortcomings.

Using it as some kind of excuse for massive shortcomings is like havinng a swimming pool where 3 kids drown a week and saying "well you can't save everyone"

Sorry but that is not or no where near the same.

 

[E30 Evo Sport]

Theres no reason why in todays world Polyphony cant employ a large enough staff comprised of dedicated individuals ready to complete a quality product in the vision of the head artist in a reasonable amount of time. There's no excuse for this game taking so long, also no excuse for the crappy parts of it. Its only saving grace are a decent tire model (albeit to unrealistic at higher level of tire grip) and premium models. In almost every other department it falls either woefully short (see sounds, the 'other' cars, shadows, old tracks looking prehistoric etc.) or just makes par.

 

[kazuyam]

I think you are talking through your hat.

Indeed numerous issues were addressed: the shadows were improved, the Standards look better, the G25 clutch works out of the box, the Vettel times were lowered, the licences got easier.

Well so much for constructive criticism.

shadows still the same, ask Digital Foundry.
G25 always worked
Vettel times lowered and licences lowered? Well it's just a small water drop on a hot stone, considering the fact that A-Spec is close to a disaster compared to GT3 and GT4. And honestly, Vettel times... I'm really more concerned about the strange damage model, lack of Premiums, lack of tracks, lack of events, mediocre online menu, lack of creativity throug out the whole presentation etc. etc. etc.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

If they had given Prologue an infusion of new content (specifically the Nurburgring), either as paid DLC or frankly as good will, then in all honesty they could have had 2 more years.

 

[rhys159]

I would've waited 2 years for it much better with DTM and FIA-GT.

Yup. FIA GT championships and the GT1/3 cars are one of things that made me buy Shift 2.

Anyway, it does show that GT5 needed at least another two years, lack of events, premiums, etc. etc.

BTW, I noticed there is a Shift 2 rant thread but there is not a GT5 rant thread. I think that this is being slightly based towards GT5(we all know it has its niggles) and if there was it would stop people making a lot of complaint threads and therefore keeping the forums a bit...cleaner, I guess you could say?