Anyone planning to drop GT5?

[Bigtheo]

Personally I enjoyed Forza 2 during the betwix gran turismo period, i really enjoyed the frequent online tournaments, but I could not stand driving with a controler for long. I easily went back to gran turismo 4 just because of the driving force pro. I'm not sure about the pricing on the new wheels for the xbox, but I've built up a bit of a library of racing games for teh ps3. I've always thought personally that forza had more cars you wanted to drive, and that still may be the case, but gran turismo has upped the game a bit by adding ferrari f1 cars and the red bull x1 (its nice to drive something faster than the fastest thing you can think of). But while I'm betting forza will have more le mans prototypes/group c cars and more high performance road cars, their loss of porsche is a huge loss for the game. But personally the biggest motivation for sticking with gran turismo is the inclusion of rallying, regardless of how barely at all it is in the game.

 

[CSLACR]

ORLY?


Sounds like GT5 is simulating something other than solo practice laps.

Like what?
The only thing the game "simulates" is solo practice laps, that's it, and even then the physics/cars can have some serious issues.
Sometimes it's great though, just only when the "AI" isn't involved at all.

Online would be the closest to simulation, but the physics change from room to room, and it's not the game actually "simulating" it's the physics tied to humans.
Despite it's flaws I never bother full detail on the physics, and I'm sure some of it is debatable, but in any case, as always, it's GT's saving grace. The problem comes in (for PD) if/when another game comes round with equal physics, and better everything else, something PD has not made difficult.

And II-zOoLoGy-II, I went on and on about flaws just with Forza 3 in that other section of the boards, so acting like GT5 is full of fail while Forza is neverwuzthat is completely biased. This is what kills me about Forza fans in general. Ask any one of them to produce a list of Forza issues, and it's almost like they'd rather eat glass. I know Gran Turismo is full of dreaded fanboys, but good grief, you can't openly criticize Forza on even a non-Forza site because a number of you guys get all bent out of shape over it. And the mods on Forza sites are as bad as the fans.

If this is yet another typical Forza from T10 full of crap I have to swallow just to do simple things like share pics, don't expect me to not open a huge can of I-told-you-so.

I touched on this myself, while GT fan boys can be awful to listen to, xbox and anything related fan boys always seems to take the cake on idiocy.

But I'm not sure Zoo is an FM fan boy, he may just be under the assumption FM4 will be better, in any case he hasn't said anything untrue that I've seen.

 

[Mac K]

It feels like the UN in here Anyways, I won't be dropping GT5, Forza looks like a great game, and I would buy it if I had an Xbox, and I don't plan on buying an Xbox since I'm quite happy with my PS3 and GT5 for the time being.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

in any case he hasn't said anything untrue that I've seen.

Yes he as, and people have responded.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

What a funny guy.

It's not an opinion because we can calculate physics(feeling wise and number wise) of any game to real life. Therefore, we can base the choice on fact as we have a concrete/REAL life subject to compare all games physics too.

Same goes for the Nurburgring comparison.

EDIT: Or you can just make 3 race car drivers out of it

Wow. Do you have any amount of an education?

You can calculate the physics huh? Care to share your formulas, algorithms, and scientific processes in doing this? Do you have a secret lab where you test the physics of each car in Gran Turismo vs their real life counterpart? Of course it is all "feeling wise and number wise." I mean that is "concrete" right? Whatever you feel I must feel the same as well.

Here is an idea, try to think for yourself instead of just repeating the mass's opinions.

You're right, PD haven't patched a thing in GT5 since release...

Don't stop learning, but frame an argument properly if you want to win friends and influence people, rather than kick up a bunch of worthless dust.

This thread has certainly seen better moments.

And your argument is what now? Oh yes! That's right! Accusing me of being a fanboy because I didn't provide any subjective derogatory remarks towards the Forza franchise. Now that I have done the prior you tell me I cannot frame an argument? Brilliant. We will just put a pin in that until later since your "fanboy! worthless dust!" argument is going nowhere fast.

Ok? Your point is? You haven't post any racing gameplay just a car selection video which is something I'm not interested in. Dan already said cockpit will have IBL and better textures which doesn't have to do with high polygon count that's on par with GT5. The game itself looks good IMO but don't criticize by calling people ignorant folks. I've seen racing gameplay videos that looks good but they don't have the same photo realism as GT5's strong area's imo.

2- I am not denying the exquisite detail of GT5's premium models. But, let me point out a comparison for you if this is even AT ALL the case: 20% of GT5's graphics are better than FM's.... the other 80%? Judging by your comment it seems the only gameplay videos you have seen were captured off screen and most likely viewed on your computer. Until you have seen the videos on your own TV in 1080p you wont know what you are talking about. Don't have an XBOX? Funny. There are FM4 videos all over the dashboard in HD.

I take it you skipped the class where they taught you how to read?

And you say that Turn 10 listens to their community? What happened when many fans asking that they wanted day/night cycles, and weather to be implemented? I find it funny that if a Forza fan creates their own thread and criticizes FM4 for not having day/night cycle and weather then the thread gets locked.

Well we can't have EVERYTHING we want. What do you think this is? GT5? I mean come on. It even has go karts!

Want to know why there is no weather and night racing? www.ForzaMotorsport.net The Internet is your friend.

Yes he as, and people have responded.

Oh really? Care to point out anything incorrect I have said? Where is the reply? You might want to go ahead and report me because posting false information is against the AUP. I guess we will have to let a moderator decide.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

Wow. Do you have any amount of an education?

You can calculate the physics huh? Care to share your formulas, algorithms, and scientific processes in doing this? Do you have a secret lab where you test the physics of each car in Gran Turismo vs their real life counterpart? Of course it is all "feeling wise and number wise." I mean that is "concrete" right? Whatever you feel I must feel the same as well.

Here is an idea, try to think for yourself instead of just repeating the mass's opinions.

There's been plenty of tests, and time tests, and comparison videos, etc.
I never said I was capable of the calculation by numbers,although there are videos and people that go to that level. That's why I said both feeling and numbers.

But you can calculate based on feeling aswell,BECAUSE it relates to real life, but you obviously don't understand that.

Yes whatever you feel, will logically feel the same as it only relates to real life(assuming you've raced IRL before,but I doubt you have). The issue is some people know the feeling more than others.

So.....

You get 100 Racecar drivers to try out each game and explain the relation to real life, and which one is closest to real life, and can brakedown why to the T. GT5 will win compared to all other console games. Therefore it can be a conclusive fact. It's not an opinion.

There's many of real drivers on this website that will attest to that, as well as GTacademy contestants.




easy.


EDIT: I guarantee you the majority of GT5 players primarily play because of feel.

 

[shurnster]

Well we can't have EVERYTHING we want. What do you think this is? GT5? I mean come on. It even has go karts!

Want to know why there is no weather and night racing? www.ForzaMotorsport.net The Internet is your friend.

It seems you haven't read my posts correctly. Like I said your point is? You were trying to prove everyone that the graphics looks the same as GT5 with your video. So why post a pointless video when you already said yourself that GT5's premiums looks better than FM's. Doesn't make any sense. About playing it on the TV I already told you earlier about textures and IBL will make the game look better but not on par with GT5 imo.

I already read in the article that T10 isn't implementing these features because they want to run it at constant 60 fps. GT5 doesn't run constant 60fps with night and weather and it still looks superb. And that link you've sent me is just the home page. So I can't see why T10 can't sacrifice 60fps which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. PGR4 uses constant 30fps because of weather which doesn't look bad. So it's understandable for you to criticize PD for not having endurance save feature but when I mention about day/night and weather I want to see in FM4 you defend T10.

 

[XPLOSV]

Given the video footage I've seen, the car physics look pretty crap. The car line up looks mighty fantastic though.

I love how there is a distinct motorsport theme to the cars. They have a porsche 961 FFS!!!!

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

It seems you haven't read my posts correctly. Like I said your point is? You were trying to prove everyone that the graphics looks the same as GT5 with your video. So why post a pointless video when you already said yourself that GT5's premiums looks better than FM's. Doesn't make any sense. About playing it on the TV I already told you earlier about textures and IBL will make the game look better but not on par with GT5 imo.

I already read in the article that T10 isn't implementing these features because they want to run it at constant 60 fps. GT5 doesn't run constant 60fps with night and weather and it still looks superb. And that link you've sent me is just the home page. So I can't see why T10 can't sacrifice 60fps which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. PGR4 uses constant 30fps because of weather which doesn't look bad. So it's understandable for you to criticize PD for not having endurance save feature but when I mention about day/night and weather I want to see in FM4 you defend T10.

Did I say GT5's graphics are better? Might want to read that again.

Did I defend T10? Might want to read that again, too. Posting a link to the studios website to enlighten an individual is hardly a defense. If it is THAT easy maybe I should become a defense lawyer.

I love how there is a distinct motorsport theme to the cars. They have a porsche 961 FFS!!!!

What game is that?

 

[shurnster]

Did I say GT5's graphics are better? Might want to read that again.

Did I defend T10? Might want to read that again, too. Posting a link to the studios website to enlighten an individual is hardly a defense. If it is THAT easy maybe I should become a defense lawyer.

What game is that?

Ah ok so you're assuming the things that I would say about 20% of the cars looks better. If you read my post again I already made an argument about Fm4 cockpit view features.

I personally always thought that day/night and weather is a very important feature for a sim. There's been pics at T10 studios showed night and weather with the cockpit view. So I was hyped up and thought it was going to be in the game. I myself was going to buy an xbox 360 for Fm4 with a wheel if these feature were implemented but I still wouldn't drop Gt5. I just think both games has their strengths and their weaknesses.

Was you sending me a link to show the reason why T10 didn't implemented it? If so then I consider it a defense mate you're enlightening me to understand the reason but I think T10's pov its a poor reason. If I enlighten you about GT5 game saves are still in development would you still criticize them for it? You brought up Forza and never criticize it only when it was brought it up to you.

 

[CSLACR]

Ah ok so you're assuming the things that I would say about 20% of the cars looks better. If you read my post again I already made an argument about Fm4 cockpit view features.

I personally always thought that day/night and weather is a very important feature for a sim. There's been pics at T10 studios showed night and weather with the cockpit view. So I was hyped up and thought it was going to be in the game. I myself was going to buy an xbox 360 for Fm4 with a wheel if these feature were implemented but I still wouldn't drop Gt5. I just think both games has their strengths and their weaknesses.

Was you sending me a link to show the reason why T10 didn't implemented it? If so then I consider it a defense mate you're enlightening me to understand the reason but I think T10's pov its a poor reason. If I enlighten you about GT5 game saves are still in development would you still criticize them for it? You brought up Forza and never criticize it only when it was brought it up to you.

Key word is "I".

This is another thing that's pretty split, while I like night racing, and "weather" is a neat idea, to me they're pointless for video games, yes it rains in real life, but I've yet to see cars driving at 40mph around the Nurburgring in rain.
To be blunt, I find GT's "rain traction" ridiculous, to say the least, another one of those "real-life" comparisons, and go figure, some cars can go full-throttle off the line without massive wheelspin, let alone the crackpot 🤬 that goes on in GT5 rainy tracks.
As I've said before, an "option", "feature" anything in a game is only worth a crap if implemented properly, so even if I were a die-hard weather fanatic, I still wouldn't like the rain.

That said I could care less about it, mostly because there's so many other good things that could come in place before driving in weather for me, take your pick of premium cars, tracks, and quite a few features as well.

There's been plenty of tests, and time tests, and comparison videos, etc.
I never said I was capable of the calculation by numbers,although there are videos and people that go to that level. That's why I said both feeling and numbers.

But you can calculate based on feeling aswell,BECAUSE it relates to real life, but you obviously don't understand that.

Yes whatever you feel, will logically feel the same as it only relates to real life(assuming you've raced IRL before,but I doubt you have). The issue is some people know the feeling more than others.

So.....



easy.

You're claim to being a "real racer" holds no more weight than anyone else claiming it on the internet. (If you claim that) Also going to free track days doesn't constitute racing.

EDIT: I guarantee you the majority of GT5 players primarily play because of feel.

What do you mean by "feel"?
I play it because it has the best physics with the type of cars I love to drive on the PS3. If "feel" means physics, then you may be right, but I started and continue to play GT for 2 reasons, regular sports cars previously unseen before GT, be it 3000GT's, Skyline's, Camaro's, an old Vette, whatever it may be, and it has had the best physics of any racing games I've played on PS1, 2 & 3 so far.

You get 100 Racecar drivers to try out each game and explain the relation to real life, and which one is closest to real life, and can brakedown why to the T. GT5 will win compared to all other console games. Therefore it can be a conclusive fact. It's not an opinion.

You get me 100 real racers that actually learn how to play the game well first.
The bold part is moronic at best. 👎
A obvious statement of opinion, and the audacity to claim it fact because you said so at the end? Who do you think you are kidding?

There's many of real drivers on this website that will attest to that, as well as GTacademy contestants.

And lastly, I can't recall anyone in this thread saying GT5 isn't more life-like then FM3.

Or are you seriously making claims for an unreleased game?
FYI if/when there's another GTAcademy in the US, I'll be somewhere in there, you can bet your ass, does that make my say more meaningful?
How does being good at a game make anyone an expert on which of 2 games is most lifelike?

 

[machschnel]

If you're going to accuse me of anything, get your facts straight. THIS is what I have to say about GT5.

There are several good racers out for various formats. As much as I dislike Monopolysoft - to put it mildly, I'm not going to say that Forza is a bad game, just very poorly built and thought out in parts, and farming out work to third world countries hasn't served T10 well, let me say. But as a game, it's fun, and depending on tastes, simmy enough. You get a little more accuracy in some aspects with Ferrari Challenge/etc and Shift 2, and a little more pro "raciness."

PC sims are different enough in flavor that it serves millions of fans well who want a taste of real world racing, and even with fantasy cars and tracks, Live For Speed is an amazing game, if a bit overpriced for what little content you get and a wheel model that's a work in progress.

GT5 is weird, I've never said otherwise, and in the early days I grouched with a number of other naysayers about such oddball things as a paint shop with no paint to speak of and an XP system which is unnecessary. There are no new grouches recently discovered, everyone has their list of things they want PD to change or fix. But as a sim, it's so close to my PC sims that they seem stale in comparison. The physics are better in the sims, but not enough for me to miss them at all. It's more than made up for in giving me several HUNDRED cars of all kinds I want to collect, paint and drive. And yes, race against bots offline. And PC sims are so varied in what they offer as far as realism, you can't honestly call any of them realistic either.

Now if this assessment makes you sadface, oh well. I'm pretty sure the reason I'm in this universe has nothing to do with making you happy.

Subtle, but it's still just a "laundry list" of reasons why you play GT5 over others possible choices.

As I said earlier, people are entitled to their opinion. They are also entitled to express it on this forum (in adherence with the AUP). You are also entitled to leave if you don't like the way other members express their opinions, or as you so astutely put it, grouching.

 

[Hotspitta]

4- How is that grind treating you?

5- How about those leaderboards?

6- That premium Prius sure does look good. Too bad there are... oh, I don't know.... 800 cars that should have been modeled at the level before the Prius. Decisions, decisions. Guess who left common sense at the door.

7- Gotten any DLC lately?

8- Finished that 24 hour endurance yet? Too bad you can only pause it. How long did you end up leaving your PS3 on? Not to worry; I heard the save feature was on its way months ago.

9- Save any tunes lately?

10- Create any liveries lately?

11- Made any money on the marketplace selling tunes, cars, or liveries?

12- How about those paint chips? Bet that is a hassle.

13- Sent any cars over $1M lately?


14,15,16... - I could go on and on.

 

[GTShadowKing]

I'm enjoying this discussion. It's fun to see so many different kinds of people discussing at the same time for a subject that doesn't matter. Keep it up 👍

EDIT: There is a bug! *smashes bug with GT5 box* (Check my last post to understand)

 

[Frozzy]

I really hope PD is actually keeping eye on their competition. Rather than ignoring all their fans and what FM4 will offer and make the same mistakes over and over...

 

[Astro-Racer]

I really hope PD is actually keeping eye on their competition.

I hope not. Or GT6 won't be having night racing, dirt, city tracks, open-wheel cars, weather and only a few new tracks.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

You're claim to being a "real racer" holds no more weight than anyone else claiming it on the internet. (If you claim that) Also going to free track days doesn't constitute racing.

Did I say track days? No. I said people that have raced. And regardless track days would count towards understanding the feeling of the physics of a car. ie: You are driving a car regardless.

What do you mean by "feel"?
I play it because it has the best physics with the type of cars I love to drive on the PS3. If "feel" means physics, then you may be right,

Thank you.

You get me 100 real racers that actually learn how to play the game well first.
The bold part is moronic at best. 👎
A obvious statement of opinion, and the audacity to claim it fact because you said so at the end? Who do you think you are kidding?

No it's a fact.

I'm pretty sure that race with David Coulthard is a perfect example.

easy.

And lastly, I can't recall anyone in this thread saying GT5 isn't more life-like then FM3.

Or are you seriously making claims for an unreleased game?
FYI if/when there's another GTAcademy in the US, I'll be somewhere in there, you can bet your ass, does that make my say more meaningful?
How does being good at a game make anyone an expert on which of 2 games is most lifelike?

I don't know what your mumbling about, I never made claims for an unreleased game. All I said was GT5 has the best physics on a console to date. FACT.

And is it not obvious that people who participated in GTacademy, would know more or less the direct translation/relation of a videogame transfer to real life. I'm speaking of the people that actually went on to silverstone to attempt this IRL, but I'm pretty sure your not understanding that. So what they say would hold meaning as they experience it first hand.






EDIT:Anyways, Like I said... the 2nd statement is all I'm arguing, that you agree with.

 

[CSLACR]

Did I say track days? No. I said people that have raced. And regardless track days would count towards understanding the feeling of the physics of a car. ie: You are driving a car regardless.



Thank you.



No it's a fact.

I'm pretty sure that race with David Coulthard is a perfect example.

easy.





I don't know what your mumbling about, I never made claims for an unreleased game. All all said was GT5 has the best physics on a console to date. FACT.

And is it not obvious that people who participated in GTacademy, would know more or less the direct translation/relation of a videogame transfer to real life. I'm speaking of the people that actually went on to silverstone to attempt this IRL, but I'm pretty sure your not understanding that. So what they say would hold meaning as they experience it first hand.

This post is so stupid, I'm not going to bother.
All of it.

Edit: change of heart.
You said "FACT" - prove it.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

Ok take away "fact".

Everything I said still holds ground No reason to call stoopid


(It's a conclusive fact, or opinionated fact! lol
Regardless I think it can be made fact, as we have real life to attest to. There can only be so many opinions on what real life feels like.)

What do you mean by "feel"?
I play it because it has the best physics with the type of cars I love to drive on the PS3. If "feel" means physics, then you may be right,

Anyway this is only what matters 👍

 

[Tenacious D]

Like what?
The only thing the game "simulates" is solo practice laps, that's it, and even then the physics/cars can have some serious issues.
Sometimes it's great though, just only when the "AI" isn't involved at all.

...Despite it's flaws I never bother full detail on the physics, and I'm sure some of it is debatable, but in any case, as always, it's GT's saving grace. The problem comes in (for PD) if/when another game comes round with equal physics, and better everything else, something PD has not made difficult.

I sincerely doubt that another GT clone is going to come along in our lifetime, so the only game which could do that is Forza, to which I say bring it on.

And I'm being serious. As I said, Forza does offer a few very cool features GT doesn't, specifically the Storefront/Auction House and Livery Editor. And Kazunori is aware of those.

But despite everyone saying that "PD needs to check out what 'the competition' is doing," there really is nothing wrong with Kazunori's competition being himself, and real life motorsports. His goal has always been to give us the world of car racing and owning in a videogame. Forza really isn't doing anything new, it's just giving gamers what real motorsports folk have in a (hopefully) game friendly way. Yes, some of those things aren't in GT, and yes I want them very much! And much more than just leaderboards, I want to see comprehensive stat tracking. And some people need to quit acting like T10 invented them. I say, if it's in real world motorsports, put it in Gran Turismo in some form or fashion - and heck yes, give GT6 some sim racing aspects!

And people act like GT5 hasn't raised any bars, when in fact it has, which puts T10 in a tough spot. FW4 isn't going to have night racing, or weather, and if they have the same old Nurburgring, they're going to hear about it. On the other hand, it may raise a few bars of its own, and people have been clamoring here for full bore Race Mod and a Livery Editor in GT5, so let's hope the rivalry between these two developers benefits us all.

By the way, I'm perfectly content to race offline against the bots in a full field of tard free racers. Sure, they brake poorly in turns, but I'm really not that impressed with the bots in any racer to date. And I'll deal with a few cars with issues out of a thousand. I want those cars, issues or not. Besides, name a perfect race game.

And your argument is what now? Oh yes! That's right! Accusing me of being a fanboy because I didn't provide any subjective derogatory remarks towards the Forza franchise. Now that I have done the prior you tell me I cannot frame an argument? Brilliant. We will just put a pin in that until later since your "fanboy! worthless dust!" argument is going nowhere fast.

You know, I'm not even sure what the heck your argument is anymore. You've said so many things, I can't figure you out. You like GT5? You don't? You think we're reasonable, stupid? I think you lost everyone, and that's when your posts are little more than a wall of text. And getting huffy about it isn't helping. Do you really have a point, or is it just to school us on how much more lucid you are than everyone else?

As I said earlier, people are entitled to their opinion. They are also entitled to express it on this forum (in adherence with the AUP).

The AUP also requires you to play nice and not put words in people's mouths, which I have to admit I've done a few times myself. But this...

Or your laundry list of reasons why GT5 is the best simulator/driving game/ racing game/whatever hundreds of times now.

Saying that GT5 has some things that make it an awesome racer, and why millions of us are still racing in it, does NOT mean we think that GT5 is the best racer in the uuunavoice. Obviously for you, the game is the spam of racers, but not everyone agrees with you, and if that offends you, oh well. Some people think Forza is the ultimate racing game. Are you going to hunt them down too? Or do you just have a Gran Turismo vendetta?

You got to admit though D. To paint some cars there are hoops to go through.

I'd much rather paint 500 cars in GT5 than take a single pic and fight with T10's nasty system to try and fix it and get it uploaded.

 

[shurnster]

Key word is "I".

This is another thing that's pretty split, while I like night racing, and "weather" is a neat idea, to me they're pointless for video games, yes it rains in real life, but I've yet to see cars driving at 40mph around the Nurburgring in rain.
To be blunt, I find GT's "rain traction" ridiculous, to say the least, another one of those "real-life" comparisons, and go figure, some cars can go full-throttle off the line without massive wheelspin, let alone the crackpot 🤬 that goes on in GT5 rainy tracks.
As I've said before, an "option", "feature" anything in a game is only worth a crap if implemented properly, so even if I were a die-hard weather fanatic, I still wouldn't like the rain.

That said I could care less about it, mostly because there's so many other good things that could come in place before driving in weather for me, take your pick of premium cars, tracks, and quite a few features as well.

You have some good points. Yea I've always seen these features having a fun factor. I would say it's challenging though in some cases. Well put 👍

 

[BiggRayy]

Drop gt5 and pre'order Forza 4 NOW!!!!!

 

[acascianelli]

http://jalopnik.com/5843231/your-dad-will-dig-the-forza-motorsport-4-free-muscle-car-downloads

They're already announcing DLC for Forza 4 and the game isn't even out yet. A total of 60 cars will be available by DLC by April.

 

[Tenacious D]

Drop gt5 and pre'order Forza 4 NOW!!!!!

No.

Actually, I'm about to steal my PS3 and racing rig to have at it some more.

 

[leepangfu]

Don't have a xbox so no. Too bad they don't release them on both consoles. I like any racing game and from the things I've seen Forza looks very good. Doubt if I would play it as much as GT5 though. I probably won't play any game as much as GT5 anymore now

 

[Astro-Racer]

http://jalopnik.com/5843231/your-dad-will-dig-the-forza-motorsport-4-free-muscle-car-downloads

They're already announcing DLC for Forza 4 and the game isn't even out yet. A total of 60 cars will be available by DLC by April.

That's abysmal. But that's Microsoft for you. Money-grabbing sods.

 

[Custer85]

No one ever stated that was photo mode. So why post that it is?

Compare it to the videos of the photomode that were released together with the kinect footage and you can see that the video you posted is made from footage of this mode.

If you compare it to the first replayvideos, you can clearely see the difference.

Noone stated it was photomode, but i thought everyone knew it was...

 

[acascianelli]

That's abysmal. But that's Microsoft for you. Money-grabbing sods.

Yea, that's terrible of them meeting consumer expectations and offering DLC...

They should really be concentrating on the important stuff, like new helmets and suits; and not stupid things like more cars...

 

[benda18]

At this point I'm pretty much over gran turismo. A shame really

 

[Ya Pops]

Dunno about that mate.. I love my Forza, but they take the living piss with their DLC.
Most of it could've been included on the disc. Instead they blatantly leave it out so they can charge extra at a later date.

So what does any of this have to do with dropping GT5, or is this the new Forza vs GT thread?