Audi R8 Article in new UK CAR Magazine

[kart.no.38]

I see there is a 'Driven' article on the new Audi R8 in the November UK CAR Magazine.

Has anyone read the article? If so what do they say?

 

[kart.no.38]

Turns out that the EVO magazine has also got an article on the new R8.

Has anyone read that one?

 

[TheCracker]

I've read the Evo review, its little more than a Audi interview on the car rather than a road test, they've not driven it yet.

I wouldn't buy CAR to wipe my arse with.

 

[kart.no.38]

I wouldn't buy CAR to wipe my arse with.

Why is that? I used to subscribe to them but their bias toward BMW alienated me.

I don't mind it when a car wins a road test when its good but they usually decide before they have driven the cars. Freaks me out.

Anyway, I still feel that UK Car produce the highest quality magazines and though their articles can be one sided they do get some good exlcusives...

 

[Scaff]

Why is that? I used to subscribe to them but their bias toward BMW alienated me.

I don't mind it when a car wins a road test when its good but they usually decide before they have driven the cars. Freaks me out.

Anyway, I still feel that UK Car produce the highest quality magazines and though their articles can be one sided they do get some good exlcusives...

CAR has been going downhill for a number of years and (in my opinion) the recent facelift has simply made matters worse.

For my money EVO is simply the best written and photographed motoring magazine in the UK.


Regards

Scaff

 

[TheCracker]

Why is that? I used to subscribe to them but their bias toward BMW alienated me.

I don't mind it when a car wins a road test when its good but they usually decide before they have driven the cars. Freaks me out.

Anyway, I still feel that UK Car produce the highest quality magazines and though their articles can be one sided they do get some good exlcusives...

I occasionaly buy CAR when i've a train or plane journey ahead and i've read everything else. I just think that CAR rest far too much on their history. The articles in the mag seem more like a collection of random Sunday suppliment reviews and the mag as a whole shows little correlation. It seems to have no editorial direction at all and it's latest design make-over is just trying too hard - I'm a design manager for a magazine publishing company so i know a little about these things

 

[kart.no.38]

CAR has been going downhill for a number of years and (in my opinion) the recent facelift has simply made matters worse.

For my money EVO is simply the best written and photographed motoring magazine in the UK.


Regards

Scaff

I think that EVO ran out of ideas 2yrs ago...

How many times have you read "Enzo vs Zonda" Zonda vs Porsche" Porsche vs Lambo" articles? Ferrari Scaglietti tests are almost in every month.

I just feel that their range is so limited by the fact their main (almost entire) focus is on super/mega cars.

Here is my feeling:

Top Gear - too short, its over in 10mins
CAR - Too bias, sometime narrow minded (drivers cars - pah!)
EVO - Too much of the same every month

But I still end up buying these mags coz despite all their nonsense they still have some pretty awesome stuff.

 

[TheCracker]

I've got to agree with Scaff, EVO is about as good as this sort of car mag get. They might have loads of similar supercar articles, but that's great, most of us will never get to drive a supercar so we have to 'live the dream' through their road test articles.

When it comes to always seeming to review the same cars month after month you've got to realise what you are actually reading about. Take the new Ferrari 599. Evo will have run an initial article on the car when the model was introduced to the press, they'll have been to a presentation on the car by Ferrari, got to have a look around it and maybe had a sit in it. They base this first article on this info. Next article might be a month or so down the line when Ferrari invite journalists to come and have a drive of the car. They'll get a few laps around Fiorano and if they're lucky perhaps a 'nannied' drive on the open roads around the factory for an hour or so. They base the next article on this experience. Another month or so down the line and they finally get their hands on a 599 they can take where ever they want for a couple of days. This is where they make the most of it and organise a group of rival cars to meet up with the new 599 on some good driving roads where they can finally find out just how good (or bad) this car is compared directly with its segment rivals. This is why you seem to get a load of similar articles on the same car. They could wait and not run any articles on the car until they fully get their hands on it for a group test. But by this time the car is old hat and nobody will want to read about it.

 

[G.T]

I haven't read the article on the R8 yet in evo. I was meant to last night, but never got around to it...

evo's articles, in my opinion, are very good. It might be a lot of the same thing, but what other mag gives us such detail on what it's like to drive or even own a sports car? That's why I buy it each month, because of the in-depth detail they give that no other magazine does. And another plus point is I usually read everything in their magazines, unlike Top Gear's for example that goes off track a little in my opinion. I only end up reading half of it.

 

[TheCracker]

I don't think i've ever even bought a copy of Top Gear, when i've flicked through it it just seems to be like a 'lads mag' without the soft-core porn.

 

[Scaff]

I think that EVO ran out of ideas 2yrs ago...

How many times have you read "Enzo vs Zonda" Zonda vs Porsche" Porsche vs Lambo" articles? Ferrari Scaglietti tests are almost in every month.

I just feel that their range is so limited by the fact their main (almost entire) focus is on super/mega cars.

Here is my feeling:

Top Gear - too short, its over in 10mins
CAR - Too bias, sometime narrow minded (drivers cars - pah!)
EVO - Too much of the same every month

But I still end up buying these mags coz despite all their nonsense they still have some pretty awesome stuff.

While I would agree (in some part) with you on CAR and Top Gear (which is around 50% adverts), I can't agree on the EVO content (none of which would make a difference in regards to the quality of writing and photography).

Recent EVO articles that do not fit your mould include the series involving building a Westfield XI and then trying to get to Le Mans in it, the majority of a recent issue on FWD cars and group tests that do not fit the 'standard' mould that most mags use.

A quick look at the 'on-line' list of group tests clearly shows that your accusation is quite wide of the mark.

http://www.evo.co.uk/cargrouptests/cargrouptests/archive/

I mean from April this year we had "Mitsubishi Evo v Impreza v Vectra VXR v BMW 330i" and in June "Mazda 6 MPS v Subaru Impreza WRX STI Spec D", yes they do run the usual Lambo Vs Pagani Vs Ferrari ones, but lets be honest would you rather they didn't? And I defy you to say they aren't some of the best written ones available.

In addition they review a very wide range of cars in single tests and for long term tests, I mean the recent long term cars have included the following.

* Audi RS4
* Lamborghini Murcielago
* VW Golf GTI
* Vauxhall Astra VXR
* Pagani Zonda S
* Ford Mustang GT
* Lamborghini Murcielago

Of course at the end of the day, choice of a car mag is always personal, but to label EVO as being a one trick pony that only covers a limited range of (predictable) cars is just not true.

Regards

Scaff

 

[kart.no.38]

My above comments are a very general overview of the magazines.

I agree that EVO write the best articles and sure there are many of the same cars tested over (I often skip the article after its 2nd feature), but they are still good articles which stick to the point of driving the car.

I don't agree with the photography though, IMO CAR creates some really good shots of car moving and standing still.

What is more worrying, and I'm not targeting any specific mag (though I will use EVO as an example), is the way in which the tested cars are driven. There are a couple of videos on EVO which show some of the testers driving the cars 'fast'. In particular there is a race between the 550 and the 599.

Now I have been in cars - on the road - with racing drivers who dont go over the limit but get pretty near. If I compare that to how the magazine testers drive the cars based on the videos I honestly don't know how they can give feedback on the cars that they are driving. The speed in which they enter corners etc makes me question whether or not they are really detecting things like turn in understeer or oversteer.

Another point is that if they have reviews which include race driver comments (Brundle and so on..), the racers often contradict what the reviewers have said about a particular car.

EG: A couple of years back UK Car had a group test and Brundle was on hand. The car reviewers were raving about how great the Elise was but then Brundle drove it and couldn't believe how un-drivable the Lotus actually was. To me that places a huge amount of doubt in the quality of feedback that we get from the writers and to an extent affects the way I enjoy an article.

Its a bit over the top but maybe you will understand what I am talking about.

I also suppose that many people here will disagree with what I have just said, but it is only an opinion.

 

[TheCracker]

Another point is that if they have reviews which include race driver comments (Brundle and so on..), the racers often contradict what the reviewers have said about a particular car.

EG: A couple of years back UK Car had a group test and Brundle was on hand. The car reviewers were raving about how great the Elise was but then Brundle drove it and couldn't believe how un-drivable the Lotus actually was. To me that places a huge amount of doubt in the quality of feedback that we get from the writers and to an extent affects the way I enjoy an article.

Its a bit over the top but maybe you will understand what I am talking about.

I also suppose that many people here will disagree with what I have just said, but it is only an opinion.

A professional magazine reviewer will have driven almost all cars available to buy today and can therefore judge cars from an even platform. A race driver just doesn't have that level of knowledge. Most of the road test editors that i read articles from are also pretty accomplished club level racing drivers too so know how to push a car to its limits effectively. A professional race driver has probably been racing for upto a decade before they were even old enough to drive on the road. They test and race race-cars all day so probably don't feel the need to drive quickly on the road. To them road driving is just a method of getting from A to B, getting caught speeding or stopped for dangerous driving would really ruin their image and possibly their careers.

Martin Brundle also has a car dealership in Kings Lynn, Norfolk. Any comments he's made could quite possibly be for commercial reasons. He must be the only person on record who's ever had a negative thing to say about an Elise's handling.

Those EVO videos you've seen will have been taken on the open road . I very much doubt that they want to publically release video footage of them driving 'beyond the law' - would you?

 

[kart.no.38]

I disagree to a certain extent. I have spoken to more than one person about the Elise. There are many accomplished drivers who will tell you that it aint that great.

A racing driver is still a driver and from experience will usually give better feedback than a car journalist. A racing driver doesn't need a platform or a database of knowledge of regular cars to tell you what a car is doing. In many cases you will read about a car being 'so balanced, and when you get on the power the tale comes round just that perfecy amount, and the turn in is awesome, and brakes are strong yet smooth etc etc'. A racing driver gets in thing, immediately knows what limits to drive at and will say 'this thing is so unbalanced, you turn in and the initial bite is good but after that it understeers towards the apex and oversteers like crazy on the exit regardless of power application'. So I will look at something like that and go hmmmm... I am definitely going to agree with the journalist [/sarcasm].

If anyone has watched a Carrera GT on limit will know what I am talking about.

Cracker like you say with regards to your experience with Magazine Design, I am experienced in the racing world and driver feedback.

IMO writers are good at writing, creating a feeling, an atmosphere, lighting up our imagination. Sometimes though they just go too far and CAR is the biggest culprit in regards to that.

One more point. Tires. All these comparitive tests are often written with no consideration of the tires on the car. Im not talking about the wear of the tires, I am talking about the brand, model etc.

Based on what I have experienced with my road car and tires - changing the brand or model can make a massive difference to the general FEEL of a car.

 

[Scaff]

I don't agree with the photography though, IMO CAR creates some really good shots of car moving and standing still.

As always its going to be a personal thing, but while CAR does produce some good shots, EVO always does it for me. Some of the shots they now sell (all from magazine shoots) are simply stunning.

http://www.evoprints.com/?ref=evosite&ad=offer

I must declare a slight bias here, as an EVO subscriber my copies arrive without any of the normal text that the shop copies get, like this.

What is more worrying, and I'm not targeting any specific mag (though I will use EVO as an example), is the way in which the tested cars are driven. There are a couple of videos on EVO which show some of the testers driving the cars 'fast'. In particular there is a race between the 550 and the 599.

Now I have been in cars - on the road - with racing drivers who dont go over the limit but get pretty near. If I compare that to how the magazine testers drive the cars based on the videos I honestly don't know how they can give feedback on the cars that they are driving. The speed in which they enter corners etc makes me question whether or not they are really detecting things like turn in understeer or oversteer.

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here?

Is it that you don't think they drive the cars hard enough to detect the balance or that they drive the cars too hard?

As far as EVO (and quite a few other mags go) they test both on public roads and at test tracks, so they have ample opportunity to judge this. One of the single finest descriptions of driving a car on the limit I have ever read was in a recent EVO article on Front Wheel Drive cars. It has not yet made its way on-line, but quite clearly showed an understand and feel for a cars balance on the limit and a stunning ability to put it into words.

Another point is that if they have reviews which include race driver comments (Brundle and so on..), the racers often contradict what the reviewers have said about a particular car.

EG: A couple of years back UK Car had a group test and Brundle was on hand. The car reviewers were raving about how great the Elise was but then Brundle drove it and couldn't believe how un-drivable the Lotus actually was. To me that places a huge amount of doubt in the quality of feedback that we get from the writers and to an extent affects the way I enjoy an article.

Its a bit over the top but maybe you will understand what I am talking about.

I also suppose that many people here will disagree with what I have just said, but it is only an opinion.

And in a well balanced group test using a number of drivers (racers or not) they will often disagree with each other, the vast majority of the large tests that EVO run result in a degree of disagreement over certain cars. What appeals to one, many not appeal to another person. Its why I prefer descriptive pieces on handling rather than an attempt to boil things down to a common consensus or a set of meaningless (in terms of handling) figures on skidpan and/or slalom performance.

Regards

Scaff

 

[F1GTR]

Top Gear sometimes has a few nice shots. But it's only about 30 pages of articles. It's a shame I can't find EVO locally here.

 

[TheCracker]

I disagree to a certain extent. I have spoken to more than one person about the Elise. There are many accomplished drivers who will tell you that it aint that great.

Ain't that great compared to what exactly?

A racing driver is still a driver and from experience will usually give better feedback than a car journalist. A racing driver doesn't need a platform or a database of knowledge of regular cars to tell you what a car is doing. In many cases you will read about a car being 'so balanced, and when you get on the power the tale comes round just that perfecy amount, and the turn in is awesome, and brakes are strong yet smooth etc etc'. A racing driver gets in thing, immediately knows what limits to drive at and will say 'this thing is so unbalanced, you turn in and the initial bite is good but after that it understeers towards the apex and oversteers like crazy on the exit regardless of power application'. So I will look at something like that and go hmmmm... I am definitely going to agree with the journalist [/sarcasm].

Driving a racing car on a track and driving a fast road car on a road are almost so different as to them being entirely uncomparable. A racing driver will almost always compare how a road car handles to how he thinks a racing car should handle - that kind of driver feedback is so hardwired into them. Why would a racing driver 'immediately know' what a cars limits are compared to a road test journalist who does that sort of thing for a living? Racing drives can't help themselves from trying to drive like they are on a track. Driving on the road is a totally different disapline.

One more point. Tires. All these comparitive tests are often written with no consideration of the tires on the car. Im not talking about the wear of the tires, I am talking about the brand, model etc.

Based on what I have experienced with my road car and tires - changing the brand or model can make a massive difference to the general FEEL of a car.

Yes but all the magazine reviews are for brand new cars on the standard OE tyres so this point is irrelevant.

Cracker like you say with regards to your experience with Magazine Design, I am experienced in the racing world and driver feedback.

I'm hardly a kid whose only experience of driving cars is occasionally thrashing mummies Corsa either
:
:
:
:
:
:
v

 

[kart.no.38]

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here?

Is it that you don't think they drive the cars hard enough to detect the balance or that they drive the cars too hard?

No I just feel that sometimes there understanding of a great car is often slightly wide of the mark (I'm talking in general here BTW, there are obviously some really good testers out there).

It seems to me that though they have a Database of knowledge of how many many cars handle, the way in which they interprate how a car handles can be wrong, I feel that they don't always understand the cause of a car understeering or oversteering and judge a car on those feelings.

 

[kart.no.38]

Ain't that great compared to what exactly?

You got a point.

A racing driver will almost always compare how a road car handles to how he thinks a racing car should handle - that kind of driver feedback is so hardwired into them.

I don't feel that that is a fair assumption. If I look at those vidoes on EVO, regardless of how fast they are driving, the way in which the cars are driven - lines, power application etc. It seems that they are never 'one' with the car. A racing driver dedicates their everything to become one with the car and that is why I trust their feedback more than I do a journalists.

Yes but all the magazine reviews are for brand new cars on the standard OE tyres so this point is irrelevant.

It is completely relevant. Michelen and Bridgestone have completely different philosaphies [/spelling] on tire construction which would result in different levels of performance and feedback. Not every dealer supplies the same car with the same tires mate.

What this all comes down to really is the frustration I feel when a writer goes overboard in their articles (often) about the cars handling when infact they haven't even touched the surface.

 

[TheCracker]

It is completely relevant. Michelen and Bridgestone have completely different philosaphies [/spelling] on tire construction which would result in different levels of performance and feedback. Not every dealer supplies the same car with the same tires mate.

These are UK car mags. In the UK, and the rest of Europe i expect, brand new cars come with whatever tyres the manufacturer specifies. The dealers have nothing to do with it, unless aftermarket tyres are bought and fitted at the owners request before the car is supplied to the customer.

EVO's own panel of long-term test cars often try different tyres on their cars when they need replacing. The owners/drivers always comment on how different the car feels on each set.

 

[Scaff]

I don't feel that that is a fair assumption. If I look at those vidoes on EVO, regardless of how fast they are driving, the way in which the cars are driven - lines, power application etc. It seems that they are never 'one' with the car. A racing driver dedicates their everything to become one with the car and that is why I trust their feedback more than I do a journalists.

What about journalists that also race?

In addition the road test teams at both EVO and Autocar run a regular series of trackdays and I would have to dispute you assertion that they never seem at one with he cars, particularly having seen a number of writers from EVO race.

I've also come across racers who know far less than they make out about how and why a car is reacting in a certain way, if you want people who really know what is happening then you need to speak to a chassis engineer.

I trust someone based upon a knowledge of their collective works, for example , Chris Harris from Autocar (and many other publications) is one of the single most knowledgeable and reliable writers on the 911 I know off, and certainly I would trust his opinion of one.

It is completely relevant. Michelen and Bridgestone have completely different philosaphies [/spelling] on tire construction which would result in different levels of performance and feedback. Not every dealer supplies the same car with the same tires mate.

Here in the UK its rare for a new car to be supplied with any tyre but the manufacturers OE one, the better mags will run cars will run long term cars on a range of rubber to allow these very differences to be felt.

What this all comes down to really is the frustration I feel when a writer goes overboard in their articles (often) about the cars handling when infact they haven't even touched the surface.

This comes back to what The Cracker said earlier that some magazines do test and re-test cars, building up a knowledge base on them. The vast majority of the well written pieces are quite open about the limits of the testing environment, besides the only alternative is either nothing being written or a simply a technical description of the car with a big load of numbers listed.

Regards

Scaff

 

[kart.no.38]

What about journalists that also race?

No I just feel that sometimes there understanding of a great car is often slightly wide of the mark (I'm talking in general here BTW, there are obviously some really good testers out there).

In addition the road test teams at both EVO and Autocar run a regular series of trackdays and I would have to dispute you assertion that they never seem at one with he cars, particularly having seen a number of writers from EVO race.

I've also come across racers who know far less than they make out about how and why a car is reacting in a certain way, if you want people who really know what is happening then you need to speak to a chassis engineer.

I trust someone based upon a knowledge of their collective works, for example , Chris Harris from Autocar (and many other publications) is one of the single most knowledgeable and reliable writers on the 911 I know off, and certainly I would trust his opinion of one.

I agree with you on that point and that is why I don't look at any one who is just a racing driver, they need some kind of credibility. Same goes for journalists, they not all crap, most are crap and some are good and some are amazing.

 

[Poverty]

CAR has been going downhill for a number of years and (in my opinion) the recent facelift has simply made matters worse.

For my money EVO is simply the best written and photographed motoring magazine in the UK.


Regards

Scaff

I think evo is biased ****e myself.

These are UK car mags. In the UK, and the rest of Europe i expect, brand new cars come with whatever tyres the manufacturer specifies. The dealers have nothing to do with it, unless aftermarket tyres are bought and fitted at the owners request before the car is supplied to the customer.

EVO's own panel of long-term test cars often try different tyres on their cars when they need replacing. The owners/drivers always comment on how different the car feels on each set.

With several car manufacturers you get to choose what make tyre is fitted to your vehicle when your choosing what rims you want.

 

[Scaff]

I think evo is biased ****e myself.

Care to elaborate (and watch the language) on that, as a statement it means very little.

Biased to/against what? In what way? If you find the quality of the writing/photography to be poor, then once again why.

I look forward to a more detailed and structured response than your usual single line nonsense, something you are making a habit of in recent days, and something that I personally am losing patience with.

Scaff

 

[TheCracker]

I agree with you on that point and that is why I don't look at any one who is just a racing driver, they need some kind of credibility. Same goes for journalists, they not all crap, most are crap and some are good and some are amazing.

Well since we are mainly talking about EVO's main road test writers...

John Barker, Richard Meadon, Jethro Bovington and contributing road tester John Hayman all have plenty of race experience. Most recently Richard Meadon participated in the Nurburgring 24hr race in a factory Maserati. He also came 2nd & 3rd (if i remember rightly off the top of my head) in a European Caterham race at Spa, partnered by John Hayman. Jethro Bovington won or came 2nd in the Caterham Academy series a couple of seasons back. One of them, i can't remember which, also raced in the Porsche Carrera Cup some years back. They have enough racing experience, in my book, to know how a car handles on the limit and how to express that feel and feedback into a well written report.

 

[Poverty]

Care to elaborate (and watch the language) on that, as a statement it means very little.

Biased to/against what? In what way? If you find the quality of the writing/photography to be poor, then once again why.

I look forward to a more detailed and structured response than your usual single line nonsense, something you are making a habit of in recent days, and something that I personally am losing patience with.

Scaff

Not everyone has time to be writing out long winded posts to explain every single little detail. You say you like evo, I dont, whats the problem. I was just simply voicing my opinion that I also like kart guy dont rate evo.

To sum up why I dont like evo is because they are biased towards british models at times, and are too geared towards racetrack performance for my liking. Yes I know evo is all about performance car driving but they need to spread out the kudos a bit more.

 

[Scaff]

Not everyone has time to be writing out long winded posts to explain every single little detail. You say you like evo, I dont, whats the problem. I was just simply voicing my opinion that I also like kart guy dont rate evo.

To sum up why I dont like evo is because they are biased towards british models at times, and are too geared towards racetrack performance for my liking. Yes I know evo is all about performance car driving but they need to spread out the kudos a bit more.

I am not asking for "long winded posts to explain every single little detail", I am asking for any detail, full stop. This was no better than your post in the Veyron thread, a post that on examination of full article was actually incorrect (in that they used the manufacturers claimed time not a time they obtained themselves). Your posts of late have followed this trend and to be honest are of an increasingly low quality, and when lacking detail add little to the thread in general and do not allow others to reply/respond easily.

kart.no.38 gave reasons why he dislikes EVO, you did not.

As for your own reasons (and now you have given them I can reply - see how easy it is) I disagree totally.

What exactly is this bias towards British models? EVO run a wider variety of long term car from varied sources that almost any other mag I can think of, and takes time to test a lot of cars that will never actually see UK shores (such as the Shelby Mustang in the last issue).

As far as a bias towards racetrack performance, well yes they do carry out a lot of tests on track, but then so does every magazine!!! EVO I would actual rate as one of the mags that takes the time to drive cars on road and goes out of its way to use roads that they know will be a challenge to the car. Why else would they regularly trek to Scotland and North Wales to use specific roads if they had a massive track bias?

Overall I fail to see anything in your points that I would either agree with or more importantly support your assertion that EVO is ****e.

I disagree to a certain extent. I have spoken to more than one person about the Elise. There are many accomplished drivers who will tell you that it aint that great.

So you've spoken to a number of people to form this opinion, have you driven one yourself?

The general consensus of opinion (and that's the best you are even going to get as very few subjective issues get total agreement) is that the Lotus Elise is a superb handling car, but one that is very tricky on the limit and is not an easy car to get the most out of. And yes I have driven quite a few.

Cracker like you say with regards to your experience with Magazine Design, I am experienced in the racing world and driver feedback.

Good to hear, what exactly do you do for a living? Purely out of professional interest, as I myself have worked in the motor industry for most of my adult life, quite a bit spent in the area of training, some of that in technical and driver training (I'm currently an Automotive Training Consultant for an independent automotive software and training provider).

One more point. Tires. All these comparitive tests are often written with no consideration of the tires on the car. Im not talking about the wear of the tires, I am talking about the brand, model etc.

Based on what I have experienced with my road car and tires - changing the brand or model can make a massive difference to the general FEEL of a car.

Sorry but I can't agree with that at all, not that tyres make a huge difference, that I agree with 100%.

No, what I disagree with is that this is never taken into consideration, its commonly mentioned in EVO and Autocar, in fact if I may quote a quick bit from this months EVO (from the Audi RS4 long term test).

In the meantime, at 14,000 miles, the original Pirellis were replaced by a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 2's, the alternative original equipment tyre.......Comparing shiny new rubber to a worn set is tricky, but on noise and comfort I'd say the pilot Sport 2's are the equal of the P Zero Rossos. I'll comment on the grip when they're properly bedded in

and from the Elise S1 long term piece (same Issue)

Meanwhile I discovered that Lotus now recommends the Yokohama C.drive as a replacement for the original spec Pirellies, which are no longer made. Lots of people fit wider than standard track-biased Yokos to their Elises, me included, so it'll be interesting to see what a difference narrower, road-only rubber will make.

The two above quotes I think quite clearly show that an awareness of the importance of tyres is alive and well, and keep in mind that these two pieces were both from the same issue and simply ones that I could recall off the top of my head, spend more time and I know I would find many more examples.



Regards

Scaff

 

[Race Idiot]

^^^^
Also don't they seem to realy like their fast fleet mustang gt?

j Most recently Richard Meadon participated in the Nurburgring 24hr race in a factory Maserati.

I tell you what I picked up two issues of evo from this years motorshow just because they were like £2 and the Nurb 24hr race has to be one of the best things i've ever read in a motoring magazine. I've been buying evo ever since (well it's about two issues since but that hooked me on it) .

It was nice to hear that the R8's stability and traction control can be completely turned off though unlike other systems that pretend to be off and then decide to turn back on if it senses anything bad happening.

Edit: I bet the reason poverty doesn't like evo is because they probably didn't like an audi in a review.

 

[kart.no.38]

The general consensus of opinion (and that's the best you are even going to get as very few subjective issues get total agreement) is that the Lotus Elise is a superb handling car, but one that is very tricky on the limit and is not an easy car to get the most out of. And yes I have driven quite a few.

Afraid I have not driven one myself but the last point - "very tricky on the limit" is what I am refering to. It is points like these that I feel many journalists miss.

Good to hear, what exactly do you do for a living? Purely out of professional interest, as I myself have worked in the motor industry for most of my adult life, quite a bit spent in the area of training, some of that in technical and driver training (I'm currently an Automotive Training Consultant for an independent automotive software and training provider).

I am a works driver for a karting manfucaturer called PCR (I have raced locally and internationally). I have also had the privelage of being driven around circuits with some of the best drivers our country produces (they pretty good I can say). With regard to my statement of experience, I talk more of driver feedback. In that regard writers can go over the top and I ask myself - if these guys are so good at it then why aren't on the race track being paid to test. Its exageration but I'm sure you follow.

Sorry but I can't agree with that at all, not that tyres make a huge difference, that I agree with 100%.

No, what I disagree with is that this is never taken into consideration, its commonly mentioned in EVO and Autocar, in fact if I may quote a quick bit from this months EVO (from the Audi RS4 long term test).

I apologise for not being specific enough. I agree with you in regards to EVO and AutoCar but UK CAR? TopGear? Not so great at mentioning such things.

The two above quotes I think quite clearly show that an awareness of the importance of tyres is alive and well, and keep in mind that these two pieces were both from the same issue and simply ones that I could recall off the top of my head, spend more time and I know I would find many more examples.

Like I say EVO are not bad in this regard - my problem with them is the repeated articles of certain supercars.

How many times do I have to read and understand that Carrera GT is incredibly twitchy on the limit? I understand the first time and feel that those pages printed could maybe make way for something else.

CAR Magazine have been publishing pieces on some influential people lately which I thought was a really interesting read (Mr. Porshce, Mr. Honda). Considering that EVO do seem to have some good connections they could do a bit more on that level, they had that feature on Gordon Murray and Pagani Zonda, awesome read. Maybe they could have a bit more of that. So maybe instead of "Zonda vs F430 version 5.6a" they could have the story of Mr X so to speak.

 

[Poverty]

Edit: I bet the reason poverty doesn't like evo is because they probably didn't like an audi in a review.

lol what kind of crap is this. You must have put evo mag on a super high pedastle to come out with a stupid remark like that. As if everyone should like evo.