Ban on car duplication?

[Rdp616]

This thread is going nowhere..Fast.

 

[Ya Pops]

This thread shouldn't have existed in the first place

 

[Destinkeys]

What boggles the mind is how PD never seemed to see the logical conclusion of not putting enough security in the game to prevent duping. It's obvious they never intended this as a game 'feature', because it's not possible to do in the initial release of the game. The protected game save prevented it, you could ONLY 'gift', and if you did, you no longer had the car you 'gifted'.

But no-one in their right mind would release a game without an ability to backup your progress - other than EA, who don't give a 🤬 about YOUR convenience, mind you, in a game with such a short career path, it's not quite the inconvenience that losing your career in GT5 is...

So, it's obvious that anyone not on drugs at PD would realize that they would HAVE to put an unprotected save back into the game. It should have been at THIS point (before the game was released) that the security measures to prevent duping should have been in place. Simply one more example of how asleep at the wheel and terminally LAZY PD got with this iteration of what used to be a great franchise (see my sig).

 

[DanDiplo]

Mate, you're putting far more words in PD's mouth than I have.

The only people actually "putting words" in PDs mouth are the people who claim that because they haven't done anything about it then they must condone it. This is a logical fallacy. The default position must always be that if they intended it to be part of the game then they would have included it. That's not putting words in their mouth, it's stating the bleeding obvious!

And my point (and Midian's, and all the others that have replied to your post) regarding you impressing your idea of morals over how people get their cars still stands.
In fact, you've only reinforced it for me with your overblown, self-righteous indignance. Well done 👍

I'm expressing an opinion, which I believe is what a discussion forum is for. You are clearly uncomfortable having your position challenged which, I guess, is why you need to resort to such disparaging comments. You don't need to be "indignant" to recognise that an exploit is an exploit.

Oh, and could you explain how duping has had such a bad effect on others?

This has been explained in dozens of threads. In summary, it devalues the cars and undermines the efforts of people who genuinely earned them. For instance, take the marketplace here - this has been totally destroyed because all value has been removed. Earning a rare car means nothing now. If you read various threads here you will find people who have genuinely felt their enjoyment of the game has been somewhat spoiled because of this. You can poke fun at them all you like, but this still stands.

You're getting upset about it and keep calling everyone who dupes cheaters.

I'm not getting upset about it I'm simply stating an opinion. Sorry if you can't deal with that without needing to ascribe to me sentiments I don't hold. I'm sure it's easier for you to feel justified in your position by thinking I am being "indignant" or "upset" about this - if so, pretend away if it makes you feel better.

I do, however, believe manipulating the game mechanics to get an unfair advantage over people who don't is a form of cheating. Don't like that? Tough. I understand no-one like to think of themselves as a cheat, so feel free to justify yourself if that makes you feel better.

 

[Destinkeys]

Personally, I believe there is only ONE reason why duping affects others in any way whatsoever. I don't CARE if I worked for a car and others didn't. But I DO care that, if I go online and want to compete in a lobby with specific requirements, and I don't have a car close to it, but dupers have a LOT more cars to choose from (fully upgraded without paying for it), or multiple tunes of the same car (to sit at the top of the lobby requirements).

THEN, I'm at a bit of a disadvantage.

 

[kidd0218]

I dont even know if I'm duping the right way anyway. I race and grind for money to build my collection of cars. Everytime I need to trade with someone, I back-up my save so I dont lose the car that I have earned through my grinding.

I have a second account and there I'll start from the beginning to earn those prize cars again(I sold all of them in my main, I decided back then I wouldnt bother about collecting cars)

That's my side of duping anyway.

 

[Ya Pops]

the only people actually "putting words" in pds mouth are the people who claim that because they haven't done anything about it then they must condone it. This is a logical fallacy. The default position must always be that if they intended it to be part of the game then they would have included it. That's not putting words in their mouth, it's stating the bleeding obvious!

have you read your own posts? They're full to the brim with assumptions about what pd thinks. These assumptions also conveniently fit in with your beliefs regarding 'cheaters'.. Funny how that works eh?
As for condoning it.. Seeing as they've done nothing to prevent people from duping or bday glitching from day one, i think that up to this point it's fair to say they're not particularly bothered. For example, they could've stopped bday gifting altogether if they gave a crap.

i'm expressing an opinion, which i believe is what a discussion forum is for. You are clearly uncomfortable having your position challenged which, i guess, is why you need to resort to such disparaging comments. You don't need to be "indignant" to recognise that an exploit is an exploit.

i'm not at all uncomfortable with it. I'm just a little tired of the uptight, self righteous whinings of fellas like you. Take that as you will, i don't particularly care.

this has been explained in dozens of threads. In summary, it devalues the cars and undermines the efforts of people who genuinely earned them. For instance, take the marketplace here - this has been totally destroyed because all value has been removed. Earning a rare car means nothing now. If you read various threads here you will find people who have genuinely felt their enjoyment of the game has been somewhat spoiled because of this. You can poke fun at them all you like, but this still stands.

as has also been expalained in dozens of threads here, the marketplace is not a feature of this game.
If people are upset that somebody else found an easier way to get a car then it's their problem.

i'm not getting upset about it i'm simply stating an opinion. Sorry if you can't deal with that without needing to ascribe to me sentiments i don't hold. I'm sure it's easier for you to feel justified in your position by thinking i am being "indignant" or "upset" about this - if so, pretend away if it makes you feel better.

ok 👍

I do, however, believe manipulating the game mechanics to get an unfair advantage over people who don't is a form of cheating. Don't like that? Tough. I understand no-one like to think of themselves as a cheat, so feel free to justify yourself if that makes you feel better.

you still haven't explained how anyone's getting an unfair advantage. They're still the same cars, and you still have to drive well to win.
As for the last part... Pleeeaase... You sit up there on your lofty perch of righteousness as long as you like, i'm having fun down here buddy 👍

....

 

[Destinkeys]

YaPops, did you read my last post?

Firstly, duping WAS impossible at Day 1... It is obvious that PD did NOT want everyone doing it. Only if you completely ignore this can you hold your position.

Secondly, I've explained how someone doing it has quite an advantage over someone not doing it.

You miss this?

 

[Ya Pops]

I was talking about Bday glitching from day one.
As for your explaination ... I'm sorry but that's just another example of people crying over the fact that others have more than them.

I'm sorry to be this blunt, but it's just tough s***. No offence mate.
If you haven't got the selection then it's up to you to do something about it.

Need any cars?

 

[Niandra]

So you guys are basically saying trade at your own risk? I thought "duping" was more of a "car insurance". What would you do if you traded with someone and he decided to keep the car and never bothered to send a car? Better yet, what would you do if your PS3 dies on you and you had no option to backup your save file. You guys have too much time on hand to argue and whine about this feature.

 

[Ya Pops]

Time which could be better spent grinding to get all those cars you need eh?
After all, that is what PD intended right?

Can't have it both ways.

 

[Niandra]

I don't get why you guys are complaining about duping and whatnot. If you don't like it, it's real simple, don't use it.
And please don't start anther pointless thread like this.

 

[Destinkeys]

So you guys are basically saying trade at your own risk? I thought "duping" was more of a "car insurance". What would you do if you traded with someone and he decided to keep the car and never bothered to send a car? Better yet, what would you do if your PS3 dies on you and you had no option to backup your save file. You guys have too much time on hand to argue and whine about this feature.

Duping is WAY more than a simple way to protect yourself from a bad trade. Where do you think 90% of the cars in the trading section come from? You think those guys actually RACED for them? LOL.

And anyone unwilling to spend $5 on a USB stick deserves to lose their game progress.

Ya Pops, you are basically saying suck it up and dupe like everyone else. Nice...

 

[Niandra]

Duping is WAY more than a simple way to protect yourself from a bad trade. Where do you think 90% of the cars in the trading section come from? You think those guys actually RACED for them? LOL.

And anyone unwilling to spend $5 on a USB stick deserves to lose their game progress.

Ya Pops, you are basically saying suck it up and dupe like everyone else. Nice...

So what you're implying here is you use the feature and find it useful but you decided to whine about it?
You knew this thread was going nowhere.

 

[Destinkeys]

Can't see where you got THAT from in any post of mine. You speak English natively?

I have NEVER duped or traded. For some strange reason, I like playing the game the way PD lay it out (although I'd like MORE of what they originally did).

 

[Niandra]

All I hear is you whining. No not literally obviously.

 

[Ya Pops]

I'm saying if you need more cars, grind harder or get some bday tickets.

Nothing else you can do is there?

 

[Exorcet]

I'm not getting upset about it I'm simply stating an opinion.

You think duping is cheating, and don't like cheating, but duping -which in your mind is cheating - doesn't upset you? Also, you're the one who somehow came up with the idea that duping is a problem that PD will spend time fixing. It's hard to assume that it's not bothering you given that.

Sorry if you can't deal with that without needing to ascribe to me sentiments I don't hold.

I'm merely replying to your posts.

I do, however, believe manipulating the game mechanics to get an unfair advantage over people who don't is a form of cheating. Don't like that? Tough. I understand no-one like to think of themselves as a cheat, so feel free to justify yourself if that makes you feel better.

Care to justify your opinion that duping is cheating? I've already told you that duping gives no one an advantage. I'm not trying to justify anything, I'm just stating fact.

Secondly, I've explained how someone doing it has quite an advantage over someone not doing it.

I've seen. I'd bet you haven't tried it because it doesn't work. The amount of cars needed to be ready for any event far exceeds the number of car slots in the favorites list, which is poorly organized and doesn't really lead the ability to instantly pick a cloned car out from many of the same cloned cars. You're also completely disregarding one's ability to enter a race, see the rules, leave, buy a perfect car, and then come back and dominate. Your idea simply doesn't hold. Maybe, maybe, it would be possible if it weren't for the favorites list. But there is a favorites list which prevents your "fear", so to speak, from happening.

But none of that even matters. Why? Because those of you with low car counts are there by choice and choice alone. You decided not to dupe because you liked how PD set up A-Spec. Deal with your decision to favor offline play to online play.

 

[TrackpadUser]

Well, there are two possibilities:

A: No duping, but locked saves. Which means that you will lose all your work if your PS3 dies

or

B: Ability to backup your save just in case, and people are able to dupe, an activity which doesnt affect gameplay in anyway.

Many people talk about having the savegames on a server for backups, but there are a few problems with that. Like let say, if they take the server down for maintenance, I wonder how much people will go on Sony's forum to complaint?

Also, Sony wont ban dupers, since they do not cause any game-breaking problems or unbalance. And they havent used any mods whatsoever.

Prestige modders in MW2 got banned because in the later patches, the only way to hack prestige was through modding his PS3 and being the game host, so you could prestige yourself and/or everyone on your team. Which means that all those who hacked their prestige either modded their PS3 or got prestiged by someone who modded his.
While I personnally don't care much about prestige hackers, the problem though is that some modders decided to de-rank people just for fun, putting them back to lvl 1 prestige 0 with no unlocks.
Because of that, MW2 was pretty much unplayable, as you always had the fear of getting deranked whenever you played in online matches.

 

[Kwicko]

Also, Sony wont ban dupers, since they do not cause any game-breaking problems or unbalance. And they havent used any mods whatsoever.

Exactly.

DanDiplo:

I do, however, believe manipulating the game mechanics to get an unfair advantage over people who don't is a form of cheating. Don't like that? Tough. I understand no-one like to think of themselves as a cheat, so feel free to justify yourself if that makes you feel better.

1) How are people "manipulating the game mechanics"? What are they using that isn't either in the game or in the system? Some have argued that trading/duping/game saves weren't in the game at first, and so weren't intended. I'd argue that THEY HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE GAME, so quite obviously THAT is what Sony/PD wanted, or they wouldn't have gone to the extra trouble to ADD those capabilities.

2) What "unfair advantage" are they gaining? If somebody dupes a car that they bought, what about that is giving them an "unfair advantage"? If somebody grinds more B-spec than you, and therefore gains more money than you, and grinds to L40 before you, then buys an X2010 at the dealership, did he gain an unfair advantage? If not, how exactly does a duper gain an unfair advantage? What EXACTLY have they got that you don't have the opportunity to get? Cars? You can get those. Money? You can get those?

For all the whining about the "unfair advantages" people are supposed to be gaining, nobody I've seen has actually laid out any case for WHAT that advantage is supposed to be. If you dupe a car that I paid for, does you car come with magical abilities that make it faster than mine, or make you a better driver?

And speaking of unfair advantages, what if I go and blow 5 million credits on one of the GT by Citroen models, while YOU go and spend your 5m on a Formula GT? Wouldn't YOU be gaining an "unfair advantage" by dint of having such a superior car? But how can that be? We both spent roughly the same amount of money on the cars! You must be cheating somehow!

If you don't want to dupe, don't dupe. But quit whining about it and trying to tell others how to play their game and what to do. And instead of asking PD to waste time "fixing" something that isn't broken, quit whining and let them get on with things that actually freaking matter.

 

[MGS2 Snake]

If this thread is just going to turn into another discussion about whether duping is bad/wrong/good etc, maybe it should be locked.

+1:tup:

 

[JediRage]

1) How are people "manipulating the game mechanics"? What are they using that isn't either in the game or in the system? Some have argued that trading/duping/game saves weren't in the game at first, and so weren't intended. I'd argue that THEY HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE GAME, so quite obviously THAT is what Sony/PD wanted, or they wouldn't have gone to the extra trouble to ADD those capabilities.

2) What "unfair advantage" are they gaining? If somebody dupes a car that they bought, what about that is giving them an "unfair advantage"? If somebody grinds more B-spec than you, and therefore gains more money than you, and grinds to L40 before you, then buys an X2010 at the dealership, did he gain an unfair advantage? If not, how exactly does a duper gain an unfair advantage? What EXACTLY have they got that you don't have the opportunity to get? Cars? You can get those. Money? You can get those?

For all the whining about the "unfair advantages" people are supposed to be gaining, nobody I've seen has actually laid out any case for WHAT that advantage is supposed to be. If you dupe a car that I paid for, does you car come with magical abilities that make it faster than mine, or make you a better driver?

And speaking of unfair advantages, what if I go and blow 5 million credits on one of the GT by Citroen models, while YOU go and spend your 5m on a Formula GT? Wouldn't YOU be gaining an "unfair advantage" by dint of having such a superior car? But how can that be? We both spent roughly the same amount of money on the cars! You must be cheating somehow!

If you don't want to dupe, don't dupe. But quit whining about it and trying to tell others how to play their game and what to do. And instead of asking PD to waste time "fixing" something that isn't broken, quit whining and let them get on with things that actually freaking matter.

Well written post. You have shown more patience than I can possibly have mustered to explain to these elitists.

But alas! Your words will be wasted on these knuckleheads.

 

[corne]

I've seen. I'd bet you haven't tried it because it doesn't work. The amount of cars needed to be ready for any event far exceeds the number of car slots in the favorites list, which is poorly organized and doesn't really lead the ability to instantly pick a cloned car out from many of the same cloned cars. You're also completely disregarding one's ability to enter a race, see the rules, leave, buy a perfect car, and then come back and dominate. Your idea simply doesn't hold. Maybe, maybe, it would be possible if it weren't for the favorites list. But there is a favorites list which prevents your "fear", so to speak, from happening.

BTW, do you want to know what resulted from my "cheating"?

Before:
Grind Indy

After:
Go online, go to track days and set up cars, have great races and save the replays. Have access to nearly any car and anytime. Buying the 100,000 credits worth of tires and who knows how many credits worth of upgrades for each car so that I can always be competitive no matter what the rules are for online races became much easier.

Contradicting yourself a bit?

 

[HerpesForLife]

wesyu, your an idiot

 

[Exorcet]

Contradicting yourself a bit?

No. Words can only be so effective.

"I can always be competitive no matter what the rules are for online races"

I can see how you'd think this goes against my reply to Destinkeys, but it's not actually a contradiction. Basically, I mean that I don't have to limit myself to having a couple of cars and only race against car in that class online. Destinkeys was saying that duping allows one to have a car ready for every possible combination of hp and weight restrictions online, and this is impossible due to the limited favorites list , the hassle of managing all the cloned cars in a menu where they are practically indistinguishable, and the ease of just switching parts in the setting menu.

Basically, in my second quote I'm referring to being able to race, for example; Mini's, Super GT, and Group C at my choosing instead of only being able to afford to own cars of one class.

My first quote is on the ability to have 100 Mini's, 100 Super GT's, and 100 Group C cars, each with 1 hp, 1 lb, and 1 unit of spring stiffness different from the others. It just can't happen, and frankly isn't worth attempting.



EDIT

I should also add that I race online by finding a static room with constant race rules, simply because I think that's a better way to go about things. The whole concept of me being able to perfectly adapt to ever changing rules in a particular room doesn't even occur to me most of the time because I'd sooner leave the room than change cars all the time. Thus "be competitive no matter what the rules" perhaps would be better off replaced with "able to enter any online room I want". Of course, you're free to believe this or to think I'm lying and making it up.

 

[Destinkeys]

No I did NOT say that (you read my post?)...

I said it gives you an ADVANTAGE. Even if you only have twice as many cars as me by duping, that's an advantage. It's ridiculous to claim that, unless the exploit is taken to its' logical conclusion, that NO advantage exists. As you so eloquently put, you HAVE gained an advantage.

I also explained, quite clearly, that PD did NOT want this exploit in, but because of their lack of forethought, laziness in coding, and just sheer incompetence, the ONLY alternative was a locked game save, which most players did NOT want (although few realized the implications of unlocking would mean). The return of the unlocked game save was a response to players' concerns about losing their game progress, and by NO means a deliberate attempt to put in unrestricted exploitation of the feature.

It is self-justification in the extreme to suggest that, because an exploit exists, that it is DELIBERATE. The simple fact that you COULDN'T do this when the game was released as PD intended pretty much makes that the nonsense it is.

Personally, if I use an exploit, I just man up, SAY I am using an exploit, and if I have any desire to not cheat online, have the honesty to not use exploits online. Offline, by myself, what's the harm..? But using an exploit to gain advantage over more honest users (honest to the game maker's intent), well, as I've read on this thread, you have to do some pretty desperate tap dancing to convince yourself you are being honest.

And you certainly aren't convincing anyone else...

 

[Exorcet]

No I did NOT say that (you read my post?)...

dupers have a LOT more cars to choose from (fully upgraded without paying for it), or multiple tunes of the same car (to sit at the top of the lobby requirements).

THEN, I'm at a bit of a disadvantage.

Well, it was at least a major point.

I said it gives you an ADVANTAGE. Even if you only have twice as many cars as me by duping, that's an advantage.

How? The only way I'll be able to beat you is by being a better a driver, no matter how many cars I've duped.

It's ridiculous to claim that, unless the exploit is taken to its' logical conclusion, that NO advantage exists. As you so eloquently put, you HAVE gained an advantage.

I know that you did not literally mean that a duper would have All 1000 cars in every possible tune/set up combination, but I wanted to place some emphasis on the different scenarios the two quotes of mine were describing.

Also, what of buying a car specifically for an event? And hosting an event with rules perfectly suited for your car? And kicking people for beating you? Duping isn't invovled there, and I garuntee that those methods are much more effective at "fixing" races.

It is self-justification in the extreme to suggest that, because an exploit exists, that it is DELIBERATE. The simple fact that you COULDN'T do this when the game was released as PD intended pretty much makes that the nonsense it is.

I'm going to assume this isn't directed at me, but I don't see quotes in your post.

Personally, if I use an exploit, I just man up, SAY I am using an exploit, and if I have any desire to not cheat online, have the honesty to not use exploits online. Offline, by myself, what's the harm..? But using an exploit to gain advantage over more honest users (honest to the game maker's intent), well, as I've read on this thread, you have to do some pretty desperate tap dancing to convince yourself you are being honest.

And you certainly aren't convincing anyone else...

I am using an exploit, have never denied it, and feel no need to deny it. However I don't like cheating. It's dishonest and spoils the fun, so I don't cheat.

Honest users really is a misnomer in this case, but they are no more honest than dupers. They simple care more about offline than online. I feel it's a bit selfish of those players to demand that the online crowd play their way [offline]. Why should anyone? If those offline players feel like they don't have enough cars online, who is to blame but them? It was there choice to wait days/weeks/months/whatever to get cars.

 

[Destinkeys]

Exactly.
Some have argued that trading/duping/game saves weren't in the game at first, and so weren't intended. I'd argue that THEY HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE GAME, so quite obviously THAT is what Sony/PD wanted, or they wouldn't have gone to the extra trouble to ADD those capabilities.

(snip)

And instead of asking PD to waste time "fixing" something that isn't broken, quit whining and let them get on with things that actually freaking matter.

This was the thread I was talking about. Logic fail...

And, of course, the poster says that 'whining' is apparently criticizing things that HE doesn't care about (or actually, because he benefits form the exploit, cares a LOT about!), whereas, of course the things that HE cares about are NOT 'whining', but legitimate issues. Ah, egotism... it's not just for breakfast anymore!

 

[Destinkeys]

BTW, do you want to know what resulted from my "cheating"?

Before:
Grind Indy

After:
Go online, go to track days and set up cars, have great races and save the replays. Have access to nearly any car and anytime. Buying the 100,000 credits worth of tires and who knows how many credits worth of upgrades for each car so that I can always be competitive no matter what the rules are for online races became much easier.

There's simply no way around this. This is you, BRAGGING about the advantage that duping gives you. Including your use of it online.

How can you see it any other way?

 

[Exorcet]

There's simply no way around this. This is you, BRAGGING about the advantage that duping gives you. Including your use of it online.

How can you see it any other way?

Where? I'm just telling you that it's letting me enjoy the game. Bragging rights aren't for me

http://us.playstation.com/publictrophy/index.htm?onlinename=Exorcet

Not a single one achieved on purpose, and I copied a blank LBP file to prevent myself from earning further thropies. That's something I would brag about.