Battlefield 3

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hywelkidd
It's just stupid that you have to get x amount of kills with a gun just to get your preferred sight. If I wanted the red dot I'd have to get 200 kills before I unlock it. Sights are all down to the user's preference and should be available from the start.
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By the same logic you don't need a special sight so why not have more things to unlock so you can look forward to getting that special US sight on your RU gun. It only takes 10 kills to remove a clunky iron sight and put something else on. It's sort of contradictory that you say sights are personal preference but seem so angered by the fact you can't have the specific sight you want, as if the gun will suddenly become much better. The way I see it, the gun will work fine and a usable sight becomes available very early on but then it's rewarding to get a specific style I want.

If anything there's more of an argument to say have a bipod unlocked on all sniper rifles, because other users have a straight pull or bipod which gives a definite advantage. Or that everyone should have everything so nobody is at a disadvantage but then you're not rewarded for putting time in and you don't feel like you're earning things. As you say a sight makes little difference other than a subjective judgement, so it shouldn't be a big problem to not have the one you want.

I tried out the M26 dart + underslung rail + heavy barrel (no G3 mind) as I've been using the mass anyway, I only tried it briefly and the range is pretty crazy but it's no USAS Mk.II. I'll go back to the mass when I use one, they're fun little shotties and very useful under the barrel (though I like having it as a standalone for the appearance).

I'll also likely be on later this evening, as will my usual partner Tom.
 
My argument is that different people like different sights. There's probably someone who likes the iron sights for the PKP. So why should someone who prefers a different sight have to wait longer than someone who likes a different sight? Whereas things like bi-pods make a difference to how the gun performs so it's fair that they need to be unlocked. For example, I want the extended mag for the PKP but U don't mind working for it as it affects performance.
 
There isn't really any good reason why we have to unlock things, they've designed it that way because it became the norm after Modern Warfare, I mean Battlefield 2 had unlockables but no custom attachments so I think MW was the first. I think the one thing Black Ops (and I suppose MW3 if it has the same system) did right was to allow the player to select the order in which they unlocked attachments, and while I think BF3's order makes sense for each weapon I would prefer to be able to choose.

I also think all vehicles should've had their countermeasure (flares/IR smoke) unlocked to start with, like how the transport chopper had flares no matter who was piloting. At the end of the day, though, BC2's unlock progression was madness, I seem to remember it being something like a load of guns, two or three different sights then the rest of the guns, in that order.

Balance would make this all irrelevant, but because it apparently appears to be quite hard to balance a shooter, they should just let everyone use everything from the start and not charge £35 for the privilege. Oh wait, that'll be what it is, keeping stuff locked means they can charge people to unlock it all.
 
hywelkidd
My argument is that different people like different sights. There's probably someone who likes the iron sights for the PKP. So why should someone who prefers a different sight have to wait longer than someone who likes a different sight? Whereas things like bi-pods make a difference to how the gun performs so it's fair that they need to be unlocked. For example, I want the extended mag for the PKP but U don't mind working for it as it affects performance.
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So you're saying it's fair that someone can have the same gun as someone else but have a tangibly better gun, but it's unfair that you can't have a special sight when an equivalent one is unlocked early of slightly different design. Can you see how that's slightly illogical? You're happy to have to use a worse gun but you're unhappy to use a certain red dot, it's like people in COD who complain they can't have a golden gun from the start despite the fact it makes no difference.

All unlocks exist in games to reward progress or 'loyalty' in a particular area, countermeasures is something that should be on all vehicles and such from the start as above particularly the lack of flares from day 1. I'm not saying that the sights should be locked, I don't much care either way, I'm saying you shouldn't really give much of a damn seeing as your gun still works just as well with a kobra as it does a US red dot or equivalent.

Unlocks aren't not just there so we can be charged, that's pure EA influence trying to money grab from the lazy, they're there to give you as a player something to aim for and to keep you playing and to reward you regularly for trying out new weapons and classes. If everyone had everything then there'd be nothing to aim for in the long run, it makes you a little annoyed in the short run but later on it feels great to have that equipment you've been chasing for so long. Similarly you learn to use equipment better, by unlocking it more slowly.

In short, it shouldn't much matter that subjective unlocks are unlocked or not as they don't give you any actual advantage, all counters to unlocks should be there from the start I agree and the rest should be drip fed as it is.
 
Well I think you've kind of made the same point only you're looking at it glass half empty, as you say the sights are largely inconsequential so why shouldn't they all be unlocked? Then again I personally am talking about ALL sights (maybe excluding uncharacteristically big scopes (rifle scope on a shotgun) and IR) because they help adapt your gun to any map, even if the gun itself isn't otherwise adaptable (use an F2000 with an ACOG on Kharg and you'll understand what that meant). Even if you only have the default M16/AK, you can use them more appropriately for a given map with the right sight. Then again given what I said before about how I feel that the unlocks are ordered quite well, I'm struggling to make this particular point without contradicting myself.

As such I'd like to congratulate everyone and I'll be on my way. Good day.
 
Dragonistic
So you're saying it's fair that someone can have the same gun as someone else but have a tangibly better gun, but it's unfair that you can't have a special sight when an equivalent one is unlocked early of slightly different design. Can you see how that's slightly illogical? You're happy to have to use a worse gun but you're unhappy to use a certain red dot, it's like people in COD who complain they can't have a golden gun from the start despite the fact it makes no difference.

All unlocks exist in games to reward progress or 'loyalty' in a particular area, countermeasures is something that should be on all vehicles and such from the start as above particularly the lack of flares from day 1. I'm not saying that the sights should be locked, I don't much care either way, I'm saying you shouldn't really give much of a damn seeing as your gun still works just as well with a kobra as it does a US red dot or equivalent.

Unlocks aren't not just there so we can be charged, that's pure EA influence trying to money grab from the lazy, they're there to give you as a player something to aim for and to keep you playing and to reward you regularly for trying out new weapons and classes. If everyone had everything then there'd be nothing to aim for in the long run, it makes you a little annoyed in the short run but later on it feels great to have that equipment you've been chasing for so long. Similarly you learn to use equipment better, by unlocking it more slowly.

In short, it shouldn't much matter that subjective unlocks are unlocked or not as they don't give you any actual advantage, all counters to unlocks should be there from the start I agree and the rest should be drip fed as it is.
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I'm saying it's not fair, as an example, for me to have to get 175 kills to get the scope I like but for someone else to need 200 kills for the scope they want as they give no advantage and is simply down to preference. However, items that affect the performance of the gun should be unlocked.
 
Close Quarters weapon list:
AUG Assault Rifle
SCAR Assault Rifle
ACW-R Carbine
MTAR-21 Carbine
M417 Sniper Rifle
JNG-90 Sniper Rifle
L86LSW Machine Gun
LSAT Machine Gun
MP5K Tactical Machine Pistol
SPAS-12 Shotgun
 
Battlefield 3 Developer Details All Weapon Attachments Post-Patch

Jack of All Trades-Primary: Foregrip Secondary: Flash Suppressor

Kertz’ Comments: To be blunt, previously the Flash Suppressor was worthless. Post update it has received a huge buff: It now substantially reduces the muzzle climb of a weapon, making it much more controllable. Pairing the Foregrip and the Flash Suppressor together will give your weapon a huge boost in controllability, and this will especially help with high rate of fire weapons like the F2000, AEK-971, A-91 and FAMAS.

Short Range Stealth-Primary: Foregrip Secondary: Suppressor

Kertz’ Comments: The Foregrip’s muzzle drift reduction works well at short range and pairs well with the Suppressor’s minor muzzle climb reduction. You’ll be invisible on the minimap, you’ll have a significantly reduced muzzle signature, and your weapon will be more controllable. Finally by pairing the Suppressor and the Foregrip together the Suppressor’s minor accuracy bonus fully offsets the accuracy penalty of the Foregrip — your gun will be just as accurate as if you had no accessories at all.

Hip Fire Run and Gun-Primary: Foregrip Secondary: Laser Sight

Kertz’ Comments: The Laser Sight gives a massive bonus to accuracy from the hip and will allow you to be much more accurate while mobile. Since most of your fire will be from the hip, adding a Foregrip will reduce muzzle drift and make your fire more controllable without feeling any of the downsides of the Foregrip. You can also toggle your laser sight on and off to afford a bit more stealth if the situation requires. Remember, the laser sight only helps from the hip, so turn it off when you’re aiming down the sights to increase your stealth!

Medium Range Marksman-Primary: Foregrip Secondary: Heavy Barrel

Kertz’ Comments: This has been a clear source of confusion in the community. Should I pair a Foregrip with my Heavy Barrel after the update? My answer is a definite yes. Although the Foregrip decreases Aimed Accuracy, the Heavy Barrel’s Aimed Accuracy bonus has been increased to offset the Foregrip’s penalty. Pairing the two will still give you much greater Aimed Accuracy than a stock weapon, as well as reducing your muzzle drift. You will see some increased muzzle climb, however you’ll also be getting increased range out of the Heavy Barrel so your hits will have more impact at Medium Range.

Long Range Marksman-Primary: Bipod Secondary: Heavy Barrel

Kertz’ Comments: If you want to get the absolute best accuracy out of your weapon, this is the setup for you. The bipod has absolutely no downsides when undeployed, and when deployed it gives a huge boost to accuracy both aimed and from the hip as well as substantially reducing muzzle climb and drift. You’ll also get the increased range of the heavy barrel making you a threat to even snipers when using your deployed bipod and a high zoom optic.

These are Kertz recommendations. There are several combinations that haven’t been covered here, so experiment to find your best post update accessory combo. There’s at least one combo that’s perfect for your unique play style, so try a few and you’ll likely find not just a new accessory combo, but a whole new play style.
 
So thats why ive been doing better... :lol: Out of frustration I went back to my old weapon setups with foregrips again recently and I was doing a whole lot better. Good read there from Kertz.

Also, Mass and 870 with slugs are annoying as hell... Just had some matches on Metro with a bunch of those on the other team. Not cool!
 
Been playing SQDM and am on a decent win streak with my squad. Might get the L86 soon :D
 
From what Iv've heard The foregrip and heavy barrel cancel each other out, just like the suppresser and foregrip combo just with more recoil.
 
Ddrizle
Battlefield 3 Developer Details All Weapon Attachments Post-Patch
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Thanks for posting this Ddrizle, I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.

I think Mr Kertz is only telling half the story, at least with suppressor and flash suppressor. He is omitting the bit about how the suppressor drastically increases bullet spread (hence decreasing accuracy) in favour of stealth, whereas the flash suppressor has a much better 'cone' of bullet spread, at the cost of giving up stealth.
 
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For those confused about attachments and their effects on various weapons, I thoroughly recommend better battlelog. As well as providing much more in depth stat tracking and history, you can also see spread diagrams for all the weapons in the game and you can select attachment combinations and see how the effect the accuracy of your gun. Whether its ADS or from the hip, prone, crouching, or standing. Really is a great addition to battlelog. And it's free!
 
Mike Rotch
Thanks for posting this Ddrizle, I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
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You're very welcome. 👍 :)

II-zOoLoGy-II
It's so illogical that the foregrip has an accuracy penalty.
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I agree, DICE has me puzzled.

Hollidog
For those confused about attachments and their effects on various weapons, I thoroughly recommend better battlelog. As well as providing much more in depth stat tracking and history, you can also see spread diagrams for all the weapons in the game and you can select attachment combinations and see how the effect the accuracy of your gun. Whether its ADS or from the hip, prone, crouching, or standing. Really is a great addition to battlelog. And it's free!
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It is an excellent extension and highly recommended. 👍
 
Hollidog
For those confused about attachments and their effects on various weapons, I thoroughly recommend better battlelog. As well as providing much more in depth stat tracking and history, you can also see spread diagrams for all the weapons in the game and you can select attachment combinations and see how the effect the accuracy of your gun. Whether its ADS or from the hip, prone, crouching, or standing. Really is a great addition to battlelog. And it's free!
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Wow, its amazing! Will definitely have to think about changing my accessories if those plots are accurate!! :cheers:
 
II-zOoLoGy-II
It's so illogical that the foregrip has an accuracy penalty.

Makes me wonder if the devs have spent anytime behind a weapon.
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It's not a simulator, it's a game and they're going for balance over all out realism. There was no real reason not to use a foregrip pre-latest patch excluding LMGs and semi-auto snipers, now it makes perfect sense on my L85 set up with 3.4x and HB to avoid the grip for a really effective mid-range rifle capable of near sniper effectiveness whilst retaining decent up close abilities.

They're trying to avoid situations where players in the know gravitate towards specific set ups, both attachments and weapons, which is why there needs to be a con to almost every attachment. The bipod is the only one I know with no negative affect on weapon performance, but it can often deploy when you don't want it on ARs or deploy wrong which is a downside in itself. I'm seeing a good variety of weapons around now with alot of combinations, so they're doing a good job to me.

My bolt action V semi-auto experiments continue, there's still an obvious winner of effectiveness but I've managed to make my beloved M40 in to a usable weapon in actual combat situations whilst proving it's case against the L96 and M98B to make it a legitimate rival for the 2 powerhouses. With the straight pull bolt and 8x scope I've been allowed to take shots without fear where previously I had to be sure I had a good headshot chance I now fire regularly at most targets I can see because the follow up shot is the fastest of the bolt actions to my knowledge. It allows me to stay closer to objectives whilst thanks to practice and DOPE being a very capable snper rifle in the traditional sense where not to long ago I thought it had no chance against the big 2. I've been determined to make the M40 work the way I want, I almost gave up when I picked up an M98B but I'm so glad I came back. HIGHLY recommend straight pull bolt for bolt action users, though the point still remains that a semi-auto with a bipod can do the same things better on the whole.

Getting my laptop back tomorrow, can continue working on my BF3 guide and plan to release a draft of a class in this thread asap (with no layout). I know I'm going to end up talking about Recon the most, it's my speciality after all I just got my Recon Service Medal tonight, but I also feel it's the class most misused and overlooked at the same time.
 
That's great and all... But it is absolutely ridiculous to penalize an attachment for the very thing it is actually used for.

Penalizing a forward grip in accuracy is equivalent to penalizing a m203/m320 in splash damage requiring direct impacts for kills.

Why put a weapon attachment in the game and penalize it to counteract its true use?

-The bipod has zero, zero penalties associated with it.
-The ACOG has zero scope glint despite the fact the scope's objective lens is nearly as large as any of the long range scopes and the lens is almost as far forward as the housing around it... (Not to mention any trained sniper would actually cat-eye their objective lens- but... game not real life). If the point of scope glint is balance between sniper / infantry then why is the recon class allowed to put ACOGs on their long range weapons?
-I could list so many inconsistencies in the game my head would explode.

But, my main gripe is the forward grip being penalized in shooter accuracy; its the exact opposite of what it should be.

And I understand it's a game. If I wanted realism I would re-enlist.
 
Im a complete gun noob, but isn't the grip supposed to reduce recoil, and since you're holding it differently, it reduced accuracy?
 
Not a good day today. It seemed like wherever RXP and I went we were put on losing teams. Our shining moment was the last game; rush defense on Damavand. We joined at the second stage, and within ~2 minutes the other team had both objectives blown. The 3rd set took a tad longer, but they were successful again without any real resistance from the majority of our team. Going into the tunnel they took one of the sites with aid from their tank. And then, it happened. With one M-Com to go, I dug down with my sniper and held off the hallway leading to the last plant, and RXP hes held up in the rocks overlooking it. After helping to take out the tank, the two of us fended off attackers with only two dangerous plants. Surprisingly, on the last real threat I was disarming it think "please don't kill me, please don't kill me", and after I diffused it and turned around to retreat to my sniper hole I saw 4 other members of our team actually forming a line of fire that kept me safe.

We won the game after getting plowed through 7 M-Coms.
 
Daniel
Im a complete gun noob, but isn't the grip supposed to reduce recoil, and since you're holding it differently, it reduced accuracy?
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A grip allows you to control the front of the weapon reducing recoil and vertical climb.

You can also improve accuracy by creating opposite force between the rear grip and forward grip. This gives you a much more stable shooting position. Whether or not you use this specific technique, your accuracy will be improved from simply having a firmer point of contact with the weapon than hand guards.
 
Daniel
Im a complete gun noob, but isn't the grip supposed to reduce recoil, and since you're holding it differently, it reduced accuracy?
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It reduces side to side recoil making a more vertical type spread, but reducing accuracy over long range so I would only use one if you’re running strait in to where the enemies are.

Adding a heavy barrel with no foregrip I've found it to be more effective because there is no accuracy penalty over long range, but there is a hipfire decrease at short range (this isn’t very noticeable).
 
I'm just going to butt in here and say this once.

There is a server that you are all welcome to use, that Caz has put up.

You can all access that server, pick your weapon, pick your attachments, and fire at a wall.
You can all "suicide", change your weapon, or just the attachments you have on it, and go back to the wall, and see what you have done to your gun.
Twenty minutes in the server will give you a good idea of what worx for you.
As will looking at that better battlelog thing I suppose, but I can't vouch for that.

This is something that Mike has done, and something that I have done after reading about it, and it helped me to pick a primary weapon for each class, based on bullet spread, vertical and horizontal movement, rate of fire, general feel etc.

There is a server out there, which you all have access to whenever you want it, which can help you get the results you are all after.

Why not spend some time getting to know your weapons, and anyone else from GTP who happens to show up, rather than starting a game, going straight to SQDM and throwing your pad at a wall ten minutes later because the recoil on your foregripped, suppressed Famas was uncontrollable.......

Just saying.......

:irked:👍
 
I just had a terrible session.

After join-quitting 3 servers after being put on a based based-raped team, I found a relatively balanced metro server and thought it would be great to try a suppressor (which according to BF3stats is better then a flash supp) on the PKP.

Mistake.

Couldn't hit the side of a barn door. Team won but I had a miserable round. Kept of running into the wrong end of the barrel from some guy with a G36. Then half the server cleared out and I had a boring game at caspian capping unattended flags with a tank. Then more of that at Kharg, but in a jeep, because my idiot team mates took the tanks and drove around playing race cars. Of course a jeep is a bit vulnerable. So I got a stack of flags. And a stack of deaths. Then I got bored and quit.

Morale of the story: do what VEXD said. Empirical data > flashy graphs.
 
So what is the server called lol i wouldnt mind having some time to adjust some weapons XD
 

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