- 1,629
- RedSuinit
It's ok, he's just trying to get under my skin and make me angry, because he can't debate a sensible arguement.
Buying car: Amuse S2000 vs Elise 111R
- Thread starter Exaccto
- 161 comments
- 7,680 views
It's ok, he's just trying to get under my skin and make me angry, because he can't debate a sensible arguement.
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
Hey, rather than continue this war of words why don't you both show up online tonight in your favorite tuned vehicle and settle this like racers? YEAH BABY!
Hi Linpark. "the war of words" with Ltinius won't be continuing any further. Reasons being;
1: I have no interest in replying to him, because he just want's to point score instead of indulge in a sensible conversation.
2: I have banned him from my private message list due to him sending me chilldish, insulting messages.
Did you get the Amuse S2000, If so, how are you doing with it.
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
Look, I don't like bad blood, I apologize about my childish actions, and wish to start over, maturely.
But, I would like to ask one question, please help me understand what about my comments were just point scoring instead of sensible conversation? I ask this so that I may in the future avoid doing such actions.
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
Agreed. I am not perfect and have never claimed to be. Now in a mature fashion shall we discuss the S2000 and the Lotus elise?
Oh, and if you wouldn't mind would you please adress the question I posted in my other post?
- 27,177
- United Kingdom
GT_Fanatic, please give it a rest.
I've spotted from previous posts (and by mention of a Suzuka 700PP which doesn't exist on pro settings) that you're racing in Intermediate classes. In these classes, the Amuse *is* a superior car to the Elise because neither car is difficult to control and the Amuse is much more powerful.
When you eventually move up to Professional physics, you'll find out that the cars are much harder to split, because the Amuse destroys the Elise on the straights (as do most cars) but a well driven Elise can be so far ahead after a few corners that it can reduce the more powerful cars' advantage.
On pro physics, neither car is easy to drive, both have their different challenges. You can't be expected to have a reasonable debate on their relative merits because Intermediate mode makes both cars very, very easy to drive in comparison.
I've spotted from previous posts (and by mention of a Suzuka 700PP which doesn't exist on pro settings) that you're racing in Intermediate classes. In these classes, the Amuse *is* a superior car to the Elise because neither car is difficult to control and the Amuse is much more powerful.
When you eventually move up to Professional physics, you'll find out that the cars are much harder to split, because the Amuse destroys the Elise on the straights (as do most cars) but a well driven Elise can be so far ahead after a few corners that it can reduce the more powerful cars' advantage.
On pro physics, neither car is easy to drive, both have their different challenges. You can't be expected to have a reasonable debate on their relative merits because Intermediate mode makes both cars very, very easy to drive in comparison.
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
homeforsummer, please give it a rest and pull yourself from your rear end.
I never said at any stage of any of my posts that Suzuka 700pp was on Pro settings (get your facts right) I drive on all kinds of tracks, whether they be Intermediate or Pro.
I got GT5p on launch day in the UK and cleared all Events in 4 days, so I was racing in Pro Events online while you were probably still trying to figure out how to beat A class Events. I've ALREADY stated several times in various posts that the Elise has very good cornering abilities, I should know, i've driven one in real life. Ltinius and I were having a debate in relation to the Elise and the Amuse S2000 in general, not just Intermediate Events. I suggest that if you are going to make comments on points that Ltinius and I have made in our previous posts, then read them properly.
- 27,177
- United Kingdom
Surprise surprise, an immature comment. Again. And not even an original one seeing as you seem to have leveled the same comment at Ltinius earlier on. If you read my post you'd see that I was referring to your 700PP Suzuka races which must be on intermediate mode as there is no current 700PP Suzuka event. I did read the whole thread, and your "discussion" with Ltinius didn't look particularly civil to me.
Do not make assumptions on my skill level of GT as you know nothing about me.
Also, please do not assume I pick fault with everything you say just for a laugh. You have a real attitude towards me and it seems to simply stem from a light-hearted correction of your grammar in another thread. I have no grudge against you, but that doesn't make you immune if you say something I disagree with. Not even people I've known all my life are immune, and nor is anyone on this forum. I have agreed strongly and disagreed strongly with many users on this forum and I don't intend you to be any different. If you have a look around you'll see I've even agreed with you on posts before, so don't stoop to insults and derogatory comments just because I choose to disagree with you.
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
No current 700pp Suzuka event? Yes there is. You suggest that I have levelled the same comment at Ltinius as I levelled towards you, no I haven't. I have never asked Ltinius to pull himself from he's rear end. Also you stated in your previous post to me, that there is no 700pp Event in Pro mode, I merely informed you that I never said there was a 700pp Pro mode. As regards to being civil, I don't think that you was being particularly civil, or mature in making a point of correcting my very very minor spelling mistakes in one of my threads a short time ago. It would of been understandable if the spelling was so incorrect that it was unreadable by others. It's akin to mocking a person because they happen to have a different accent to yours. I reacted towards you in the same way as you reacted to me. I hold no grudge towards you at all, I think you appear to hold a grudge against me. Ltinius and I are now getting along just fine, then you have to post here in an attempt to negate that. Also, you claim that I am questioning your skill level at GT5p, but weren't you implying the same towards me by suggesting I move up to Pro Events instead of Intermediate. The reason I enjoy the Suzuka 700pp Event as oppossed to the 600pp, is because I enjoy the Higher sense of speed in the 700pp. If you wan't to call a truce, then thats all good as far as i'm concerned. The choice is yours.
- 27,177
- United Kingdom
Check your PMs
LinPark
Premium
- 1,140
- Delaware, OH
- GTP_LinPark
Picked up the Amuse last night and was very impressed with it. Trying to do my best to tweak it into a really good Intermediate 700PP performer at this point and would appreciate any feedback in that regard. Have used it to win enough money to go after an Elise now so I can actually try both cars and form my own opinion on them.
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
I've posted a set up im my thread "Amuse S2000 7th gear" it's for Suzuka 700pp. It's not a bad set up at all for that track. It utilises 6th gear for max speed on the straightaways, but you can use 7th gear when drafting.
I have tweaked it since to make it a bit better. Try it and see what you think.
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
Well, that's because it wasn't.
Fanatic, did you mean that the Elise was harder to drive in Professional mode? Or, that is was easier to drive in Intermediate mode? Or, that it was easier to drive in both? If you meant both I will agree with you on intermediate, but on professional mode I will have to disagree with you, I personally think that the Elise 111R has a much higher tendancy for the back end to step out and come around than the s2000.
Luke
LinPark
Premium
- 1,140
- Delaware, OH
- GTP_LinPark
In Pro mode, my backend steps out and comes around ALL THE TIME no matter what car I'm in!!!!
GTP_Fanatic, looked at your 7th gear thread and set myself up using those tuning parameters. Just went out on the HSR with 5 other guys and had a killer race. I lost it in the first turn (nervous I guess) and found myself a full 12+ secs off the pace. Made all that up and was only a fraction of a second behind the leader at the finish. I love this setup - I mean who could imagine a car that could take turn one on the HSR at 175+?
Tonight, I want to get a hold of the 111R, the Mines, and the Ford GT. That brings up a new question which might be slightly off topic but want to keep the conversation going here.
It appears you can buy a regular Ford GT or a tuned Ford GT (same with the Viper too). Apart from the appearance, is there anything different at the end of the day? In other words, can you tune the regular Ford GT to have the exact same settings as the pre-tuned Ford GT and save yourself some bucks not to mention freeing up a slot in your garage?
Thanks again for all the tips here guys!
GTP_Fanatic, looked at your 7th gear thread and set myself up using those tuning parameters. Just went out on the HSR with 5 other guys and had a killer race. I lost it in the first turn (nervous I guess) and found myself a full 12+ secs off the pace. Made all that up and was only a fraction of a second behind the leader at the finish. I love this setup - I mean who could imagine a car that could take turn one on the HSR at 175+?
Tonight, I want to get a hold of the 111R, the Mines, and the Ford GT. That brings up a new question which might be slightly off topic but want to keep the conversation going here.
It appears you can buy a regular Ford GT or a tuned Ford GT (same with the Viper too). Apart from the appearance, is there anything different at the end of the day? In other words, can you tune the regular Ford GT to have the exact same settings as the pre-tuned Ford GT and save yourself some bucks not to mention freeing up a slot in your garage?
Thanks again for all the tips here guys!
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
In Pro mode, my backend steps out and comes around ALL THE TIME no matter what car I'm in!!!!
GTP_Fanatic, looked at your 7th gear thread and set myself up using those tuning parameters. Just went out on the HSR with 5 other guys and had a killer race. I lost it in the first turn (nervous I guess) and found myself a full 12+ secs off the pace. Made all that up and was only a fraction of a second behind the leader at the finish. I love this setup - I mean who could imagine a car that could take turn one on the HSR at 175+?
Tonight, I want to get a hold of the 111R, the Mines, and the Ford GT. That brings up a new question which might be slightly off topic but want to keep the conversation going here.
It appears you can buy a regular Ford GT or a tuned Ford GT (same with the Viper too). Apart from the appearance, is there anything different at the end of the day? In other words, can you tune the regular Ford GT to have the exact same settings as the pre-tuned Ford GT and save yourself some bucks not to mention freeing up a slot in your garage?
Thanks again for all the tips here guys!
Noyou can not tune the regular GT to the same settings as the tuned GT.
Luke
- 533
- Danville/VA/US
- japan_gator
I might be wrong but I think the reason why most people don't like the elise is because it oversteers a lot and they have their hands full trying to get it back under control
- 1,326
- Orange County C
- GTP_Im_Sorry
I don't mind oversteer accelerating out of a corner, but the lift-throttle oversteer of many mid-engines infuriates me. For some reason I just can't counter it without butchering the corner. I have to look for help tuning these cars to prevent it. This is why I would find the S2000 easier to drive than the Elise. I need to get better at driving and tuning before I can say which is better. (I bought both)
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
Well, that's because it wasn't.
Fanatic, did you mean that the Elise was harder to drive in Professional mode? Or, that is was easier to drive in Intermediate mode? Or, that it was easier to drive in both? If you meant both I will agree with you on intermediate, but on professional mode I will have to disagree with you, I personally think that the Elise 111R has a much higher tendancy for the back end to step out and come around than the s2000.
Luke
I did mean that the Elise was easier to drive in both Intermediate and Pro events, maybe because with it being MR I add more downforce to the rear of the car so as to limit rear end spin out, thus making it easier to control.
The amuse S2000, I find harder to control due the much higher power output, and because it's FR, when you take sharp turns and hit the accelerator as you exit the turn, the rear end can quite easily spin out because theres more weight at the front of the car than the rear. Having said that, it all boils down to how the cars are tuned and how the driver drives it.
In Pro mode, my backend steps out and comes around ALL THE TIME no matter what car I'm in!!!!
GTP_Fanatic, looked at your 7th gear thread and set myself up using those tuning parameters. Just went out on the HSR with 5 other guys and had a killer race. I lost it in the first turn (nervous I guess) and found myself a full 12+ secs off the pace. Made all that up and was only a fraction of a second behind the leader at the finish. I love this setup - I mean who could imagine a car that could take turn one on the HSR at 175+?
Tonight, I want to get a hold of the 111R, the Mines, and the Ford GT. That brings up a new question which might be slightly off topic but want to keep the conversation going here.
It appears you can buy a regular Ford GT or a tuned Ford GT (same with the Viper too). Apart from the appearance, is there anything different at the end of the day? In other words, can you tune the regular Ford GT to have the exact same settings as the pre-tuned Ford GT and save yourself some bucks not to mention freeing up a slot in your garage?
Thanks again for all the tips here guys!
Good to hear you find the car suits you.
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
I tend to fing that, well not necessarily that the opposite it true, but more of, if you break loose the back end of the s2000 you have a better chance of getting it back under control. That is the reason why FR are the #1 choice for drifters, since all the weight is over the front tires, they can change direction and the traction on the back tires is far less important, because the back end comes around somewhat slowly. With a MR if you break the back end loose you must react quickly and 100% correctly to keep the back end from coming around, because MR's tend to come around VERY quickly. As for putting more downforce on the rear is a good solution for high speed courses, in a low speed situation, the downforce from the wind is minimal at best. Think of it like this, if you stick your hand out the window of a moving car at low speeds and at high speed you can feel the difference right? Same thing with the wing and lip on a car, the faster you go, the more downforce you have. The slower you are going, the less downforce there is.
But, one thing I wish we could tune are the stabalizer bars, on a MR the less the body roll the better. If we could install and strengthen the stabilizer bars, just like on GT4 that would be INCREDIBLE.
Luke
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
I tend to fing that, well not necessarily that the opposite it true, but more of, if you break loose the back end of the s2000 you have a better chance of getting it back under control. That is the reason why FR are the #1 choice for drifters, since all the weight is over the front tires, they can change direction and the traction on the back tires is far less important, because the back end comes around somewhat slowly. With a MR if you break the back end loose you must react quickly and 100% correctly to keep the back end from coming around, because MR's tend to come around VERY quickly. As for putting more downforce on the rear is a good solution for high speed courses, in a low speed situation, the downforce from the wind is minimal at best. Think of it like this, if you stick your hand out the window of a moving car at low speeds and at high speed you can feel the difference right? Same thing with the wing and lip on a car, the faster you go, the more downforce you have. The slower you are going, the less downforce there is.
But, one thing I wish we could tune are the stabalizer bars, on a MR the less the body roll the better. If we could install and strengthen the stabilizer bars, just like on GT4 that would be INCREDIBLE.
Luke
Your correct about the higher the speed, the more effect the downforce has on the car, which is why with a MR car I will always apply more downforce to the rear, so when entering a turn at high speed from a straightaway, the car is more stable as your entering, but I will agree that as you exit the turn it can often result in the rear end of the car to sway out, but then also ride height, spring rate, camber and toe angle have a lot to do with the control of a MR car in turns to help it stay more stable. for instance, F1 cars are MR and they fly through esses like there on rails.
I think that with the tyre physics being reworked in the new update, it will make a MR car easier to control as regards to rear end spin out. but the full tuning physics in GT5 is where it's going to be at.
- 1,629
- RedSuinit
Your correct about the higher the speed, the more effect the downforce has on the car, which is why with a MR car I will always apply more downforce to the rear, so when entering a turn at high speed from a straightaway, the car is more stable as your entering, but I will agree that as you exit the turn it can often result in the rear end of the car to sway out, but then also ride height, spring rate, camber and toe angle have a lot to do with the control of a MR car in turns to help it stay more stable. for instance, F1 cars are MR and they fly through esses like there on rails.
I think that with the tyre physics being reworked in the new update, it will make a MR car easier to control as regards to rear end spin out. but the full tuning physics in GT5 is where it's going to be at.
Agreed, but the amount of downforce on an f1 is easily 50 to 100 times higher than the downforce on the other MR cars in GT5
and they are lighter than any MR car currently in the game. That's is why they run like they're on rails. But, you probably already know this. All I mean to say is that the amount of downforce you can acheive in a regular MR car in the game is not significant enough to have an effect in the slower corners, and yes it is in the slower corners that the spring rate, camber and the other tuning options help with the snap-oversteer you tend to get in MR cars.I personally think that the Elise, if one can keep the back end in control can acheive better times in a short very technical circuit with not alot of straights, will beat an s2000 any day, however if it is a medium length fairly technical course with medium length straights then it will be close. However, on a long course with extensive straights, even if it is very technical the s2000 will win, hands down. My 2 cents.
Luke
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
Agreed, but the amount of downforce on an f1 is easily 50 to 100 times higher than the downforce on the other MR cars in GT5
I personally think that the Elise, if one can keep the back end in control can acheive better times in a short very technical circuit with not alot of straights, will beat an s2000 any day, however if it is a medium length fairly technical course with medium length straights then it will be close. However, on a long course with extensive straights, even if it is very technical the s2000 will win, hands down. My 2 cents.
Sure there is more downforce on an F1 car compared to other high perfomance race cars, thats because an F1 is lower to the ground and is aerodynamically designed to be pushed down onto the tarmac under high speeds, but I wouldn't say thats it's 50 to 100 times more, certainly not in GT5p anyway. I can take all the downforce off of the front and rear from the F2007 and it's still glued to the tarmac. The Lotus Elise is a small compact and lightweight car, so provided the correct balance of aero, camber and toe is applied, then the Elise is capable of flying around a small complex track with virtualy no rear end swing out. The Elise isn't that much heavier than an F1 car, and a fair bit lower to the ground then other cars. this is part of the reason I find it easier to handle than other cars.
Suzuka is, I think you would agree, the most complex track we have at the moment, yet I can more often than not, blow Elises away in an S2000. As i've said, it's all down to the set up and how the driver drives the car.
- 161
- Queretaro
- GTP_Chiroracer
The elise is almost twice as heavy as the F1, also, you can't take all the downforce down off every car, specially the F1. Sure you can reduce the downforce created by the wings but there is also tons of downforce created by the chassis and the body shape and also many other factors that create downforce.
I haven't driven the S2000 but, why don't everybody claiming that their car is faster take both cars to TT in different circuits to prove in which one you are faster???
In my personal experience i've beaten tuned corvettes and Ford GT LM's in Daytona oval many times in my Elise (STD physics). Isn't that track supposed to be a top speed track instead of a technical one??
I haven't driven the S2000 but, why don't everybody claiming that their car is faster take both cars to TT in different circuits to prove in which one you are faster???
In my personal experience i've beaten tuned corvettes and Ford GT LM's in Daytona oval many times in my Elise (STD physics). Isn't that track supposed to be a top speed track instead of a technical one??
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
The Lotus Elise is just over 100kg heavier than the an average F1 car. I never said you can take the downforce off of every car, just the F1 (please read my post correctly). And yes you CAN take the downforce off of the front and rear of the F2007 and it won't have any real major effect on performance. I've put my Amuse S2000 up against other cars and have come in the top 3 podiums most of the time. Put yours up and see how you fair. Wan't a real race, then make your way over to the most complex track, Suzuka... look forward to seeing you.
👍
- 449
- ORyan87
That S2000 is a killer upstairs but that Elise 111R is a track rat. It will eat those turns up like no tomorrow.
GT_Fanatic
(Banned)
- 612
The only thing that an Elise will be eating up, is the rear end of an S2000 while its trying to catch it.
