Buying car: Amuse S2000 vs Elise 111R

[GT_Fanatic]

and my internet is fixed!!


...now I just need a TV so I can back up my settings before the update.

I've just booted up GT5p and it says that the servers are undergoing maintenance, so i'm glad that I backed up some settings but not all of them. Oh well, just have to re-tune some of the cars.

 

[SpyHunter]

I have driven a Lotus Elise and a Honda S2000 in real life, and the S2000 beat the Elise hands down on a 2 lap run. I have a relative who races for a living, and I have the privilage of driving all manner of high perfomance cars, so I get a good insight into how different cars perform.

Heres a link that will take you to a website that shows a vid of a S2000 racing various cars. The vid is about ten minutes long and shows the S2000 passing ALL of the cars, including the Elise.

http://www.blinkx.com/video/s2000-vs-gt-r-lotus-and-more/irDEUfXr3AhaXIqdyYbwhA

Heres Another link that shows a Lotus Elise unable to pass a S2000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih3qAL4iaCo&feature=related

Have fun and enjoy.

Don't even have to watch the vids to tell you driver is a large % of how fast a car is. Showing a car being faster then another, with different drivers, says nothing. What does your uncle race? I am a paid instructor for two different road courses here. Big whoop. Anyone that cannot be faster in a car that handles better, has a weight advantage of almost a 1000 lbs, and a power to weight ratio of almost 10-1 (vs, like, 7/8-1), can't drive. I take that back. Doesn't mean they can't drive, just are not getting the most out of the Elise.

Now, let me ask you this. Since you are from "across the pond", are you talking about the lower HP Elise that you guys can get, or the 190-200 hp Toyota motored newer ones?

You can have your opinion, but from my experience in both, the Elise is the better, and faster, track car.

 

[RedSuinit]

I have driven a Lotus Elise and a Honda S2000 in real life, and the S2000 beat the Elise hands down on a 2 lap run. I have a relative who races for a living, and I have the privilage of driving all manner of high perfomance cars, so I get a good insight into how different cars perform.

Heres a link that will take you to a website that shows a vid of a S2000 racing various cars. The vid is about ten minutes long and shows the S2000 passing ALL of the cars, including the Elise.

http://www.blinkx.com/video/s2000-vs-gt-r-lotus-and-more/irDEUfXr3AhaXIqdyYbwhA

Heres Another link that shows a Lotus Elise unable to pass a S2000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih3qAL4iaCo&feature=related

Have fun and enjoy.

Well in the first video you can hear the whine of a turbo, or supercharger for the s2000, so clearly not stock. The Lotus is the plain old Elise, the one with the 1zz-fe toyota engine that makes ~125 bhp, so yeah, it got stomped, but no suprise there. Even with equal drivers that elise does not have the same power to weight ratio as the 111R (which is the car we are talking about). So that video has nothing to do with this conversation.


The second video. Did you notice how half way through, when the weird special effects happened. How the Gallardo was in front of the Elise, and you only saw the s2000 once more about 3/4 of the way through the video, you see it coming down the straight before the hairpin (where the Elise understeered and went into the gravel) and it's behind the Elise and Gallardo.

Just a thought. 👍

Luke

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Don't even have to watch the vids to tell you driver is a large % of how fast a car is. Showing a car being faster then another, with different drivers, says nothing. What does your uncle race? I am a paid instructor for two different road courses here. Big whoop. Anyone that cannot be faster in a car that handles better, has a weight advantage of almost a 1000 lbs, and a power to weight ratio of almost 10-1 (vs, like, 7/8-1), can't drive. I take that back. Doesn't mean they can't drive, just are not getting the most out of the Elise.

Now, let me ask you this. Since you are from "across the pond", are you talking about the lower HP Elise that you guys can get, or the 190-200 hp Toyota motored newer ones?

You can have your opinion, but from my experience in both, the Elise is the better, and faster, track car.

I don't have to add any more, the vids say it all in the vids they were ALL stock cars; including the S2000.

Well in the first video you can hear the whine of a turbo, or supercharger for the s2000, so clearly not stock. The Lotus is the plain old Elise, the one with the 1zz-fe toyota engine that makes ~125 bhp, so yeah, it got stomped, but no suprise there. Even with equal drivers that elise does not have the same power to weight ratio as the 111R (which is the car we are talking about). So that video has nothing to do with this conversation.


The second video. Did you notice how half way through, when the weird special effects happened. How the Gallardo was in front of the Elise, and you only saw the s2000 once more about 3/4 of the way through the video, you see it coming down the straight before the hairpin (where the Elise understeered and went into the gravel) and it's behind the Elise and Gallardo.

Just a thought. 👍

Luke

The cars were All stock. how can you say that The Elise was stock if you didn't have it's in car view, in order to hear it. The S2000 sounds that way naturally, due to VTEC.

 

[SpyHunter]

The cars were All stock. how can you say that The Elise was stock if you didn't have it's in car view, in order to hear it. The S2000 sounds that way naturally, due to VTEC.

Its obvious you are a Honda fanboy. Thats fine. I did watch the second video. If you can't tell that the Elise is not going full out behind the S2000, while it is when behind the Gallardo, then you are daft. At this point, I highly doubt you have driven either car. Man, wish I had video of the time I was in a suspension, I/H/E, modded Miata passing a C5 Z06 on the roadcourse, so I can prove how a Miata is faster then a Vette. LOL.

BTW, can you explain how an S2000 with 237 hp has that "raw power feel" when a car with 200 hp doesn't. Or better yet, tell me how a car with only 237 hp can have a "raw power feel" at all? LOL.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Its obvious you are a Honda fanboy. Thats fine. I did watch the second video. If you can't tell that the Elise is not going full out behind the S2000, while it is when behind the Gallardo, then you are daft. At this point, I highly doubt you have driven either car. Man, wish I had video of the time I was in a suspension, I/H/E, modded Miata passing a C5 Z06 on the roadcourse, so I can prove how a Miata is faster then a Vette. LOL.

BTW, can you explain how an S2000 with 237 hp has that "raw power feel" when a car with 200 hp doesn't. Or better yet, tell me how a car with only 237 hp can have a "raw power feel" at all? LOL.

I'm not a fan boy of any car. It seems that your certainly an Elise fan boy though. If you think the Elise WASN'T going flat out to catch the S2000 in the second video, then what makes you think that the S2000 WAS going flat out to lose the Elise, thats just a daft idiom on your behalf. The fact of the matter is, that the second video clearly shows that the Elise was unable to pass the S2000 for the obvious reason that it lacks the power compared to the S2000. As for you highly doubting whether I have driven either car, then thats your opinion and your welcome to it. I highly doubt that you are speaking the truth about the claims that you make, in relation to your "racing experience" and what not. I'm not going to have a war of words with you regarding this matter. The two videos speak for themselves, and you can think up whichever excuse you like to negate them. Like i've said, the evidence is in those videos.

 

[SpyHunter]

I'm not a fan boy of any car. It seems that your certainly an Elise fan boy though. If you think the Elise WASN'T going flat out to catch the S2000 in the second video, then what makes you think that the S2000 WAS going flat out to lose the Elise, thats just a daft idiom on your behalf. The fact of the matter is, that the second video clearly shows that the Elise was unable to pass the S2000 for the obvious reason that it lacks the power compared to the S2000. As for you highly doubting whether I have driven either car, then thats your opinion and your welcome to it. I highly doubt that you are speaking the truth about the claims that you make, in relation to your "racing experience" and what not. I'm not going to have a war of words with you regarding this matter. The two videos speak for themselves, and you can think up whichever excuse you like to negate them. Like i've said, the evidence is in those videos.

Tell me how a car with a better power to weight ratio lacks the power to pass a car with a worse power to weight ratio? I have shown you the numbers. The Elise is quicker in both 0-60 and the 1/4. Why would it suddenly be slower from 60-90? Won't be. Ok, I will give that the S2000 might have better pull once above 110-120. But betweeen corner speed, and acceleration out of the corner, the S2000 will be slower.

Once again, equal drivers, the Elise will be faster. You can doubt all you want. Thats fine. The two vidoes don't show me squat.

Have a good one.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Tell me how a car with a better power to weight ratio lacks the power to pass a car with a worse power to weight ratio? I have shown you the numbers. The Elise is quicker in both 0-60 and the 1/4. Why would it suddenly be slower from 60-90? Won't be. Ok, I will give that the S2000 might have better pull once above 110-120. But betweeen corner speed, and acceleration out of the corner, the S2000 will be slower.

Once again, equal drivers, the Elise will be faster. You can doubt all you want. Thats fine. The two vidoes don't show me squat.

Have a good one.

Tell you what. I've provided video links showing that the S2000 is an overall better, Faster car than the Elise around 2 different tracks. Now if you can provide video evidence to state your case, then we can have a real debate on this subject. 👍

 

[BonzoHarry]

In real life, I love the s2000, I get a stupid grin every time I get to drive one of my friend's. I've also driven an elise, for a good bit too, my friend got one for graduation and couldn't drive a manual. Which meant I got to drive it for about a week while he got comfortable with it. I love that car also.

But according to car and driver in 2004, "The s2000's acceleration looked a little tepid compared with the much lighter Elise—60 in 5.5 seconds, the quarter in 14.0—but its lap times lagged the Lotus's by only a second. "

around this course:

which I think we can all agree isn't the curviest track ever. The lotus costs another $20,000 than the s2k, and both of them are essentially designed to be track toys. It's no wonder the elise is going to be faster around a track (you get what you pay for), but the s2k is light years ahead in terms of daily drivability. I mean holy crap, if you dish out another couple thousand you can get an atom which (you guessed it) will out-lap an elise. Then maybe we move up to an Ultima for another couple thousand and we (you guessed it) out-lap the atom.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

In real life, I love the s2000, I get a stupid grin every time I get to drive one of my friend's. I've also driven an elise, for a good bit too, my friend got one for graduation and couldn't drive a manual. Which meant I got to drive it for about a week while he got comfortable with it. I love that car also.

But according to car and driver in 2004, "The s2000's acceleration looked a little tepid compared with the much lighter Elise—60 in 5.5 seconds, the quarter in 14.0—but its lap times lagged the Lotus's by only a second. "

around this course:

which I think we can all agree isn't the curviest track ever. The lotus costs another $20,000 than the s2k, and both of them are essentially designed to be track toys. It's no wonder the elise is going to be faster around a track (you get what you pay for), but the s2k is light years ahead in terms of daily drivability. I mean holy crap, if you dish out another couple thousand you can get an atom which (you guessed it) will out-lap an elise. Then maybe we move up to an Ultima for another couple thousand and we (you guessed it) out-lap the atom.

Video evidence please I've provided it. I mean, we can go on all day about statistics and that kind of thing.

Also note that in the second video I put a link to - the S2000 had the soft top down, thus drastically reducing aerodynamics, yet it still toasted all the cars on the track (including the hard top Elise) 👍

 

[BonzoHarry]

Video evidence is often useless.

All the track days I've been to you can be kicked out for being too aggressive and banned for any contact. Those cars are driven by different people, and each have their own skill level. Plus each driver has their own idea of what "all out" is. For all we know one car could be on hoosiers and the other could be finishing up a set of stock tires. There's also no guarantee either car isn't modified. I can't actually watch the videos at work, so I'm making the assumption that this in in-car footage from a track day somewhere.

I've provided credible sources from car and driver, which to me is a lot better than some youtube videos. Why can't you find me an article from a credible source where the s2000 out tracks an elise? I just don't think it adds up:

S2000
2,835 lb
0-60 mph: 6.4 sec
Quarter Mile time: 14.4 sec@97.2 mph
Lateral Grip (200-ft. skidpad): 0.89g
Slalom Speed (700-ft. slalom): 71.0 mph
60-0 Stopping Distance: 113 ft.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0403scc_2004_honda_s2000/index.html

Elise:
1,975 lbs
0-60 mph 5.1 sec.
Quarter-Mile Time 13. 5 sec@101.2 mph
Lateral Grip (200-ft. skidpad) 1.05 g
Slalom Speed (700-ft. slalom) 73.8 mph
60-0 Stopping Distance 101 ft.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0410_sccp_2005_lotus_elise_road_test/specifications.html

The elise weighs less, accelerates faster, handles better, slalom's faster, and stops shorter...and you're telling me that it loses to an s2000? Listen, I'm all for the s2k, I love it to death, but facts is facts. The elise's on-track performance is just better.

 

[LinPark]

Like a fine wine this thread keeps getting better and better with age. Every time I open it again, spend some time with it, and let it breathe, it gives me such great enjoyment.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Video evidence is often useless.

All the track days I've been to you can be kicked out for being too aggressive and banned for any contact. Those cars are driven by different people, and each have their own skill level. Plus each driver has their own idea of what "all out" is. For all we know one car could be on hoosiers and the other could be finishing up a set of stock tires. There's also no guarantee either car isn't modified. I can't actually watch the videos at work, so I'm making the assumption that this in in-car footage from a track day somewhere.

I've provided credible sources from car and driver, which to me is a lot better than some youtube videos. Why can't you find me an article from a credible source where the s2000 out tracks an elise? I just don't think it adds up:

S2000
2,835 lb
0-60 mph: 6.4 sec
Quarter Mile time: 14.4 sec@97.2 mph
Lateral Grip (200-ft. skidpad): 0.89g
Slalom Speed (700-ft. slalom): 71.0 mph
60-0 Stopping Distance: 113 ft.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0403scc_2004_honda_s2000/index.html

Elise:
1,975 lbs
0-60 mph 5.1 sec.
Quarter-Mile Time 13. 5 sec@101.2 mph
Lateral Grip (200-ft. skidpad) 1.05 g
Slalom Speed (700-ft. slalom) 73.8 mph
60-0 Stopping Distance 101 ft.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0410_sccp_2005_lotus_elise_road_test/specifications.html

The elise weighs less, accelerates faster, handles better, slalom's faster, and stops shorter...and you're telling me that it loses to an s2000? Listen, I'm all for the s2k, I love it to death, but facts is facts. The elise's on-track performance is just better.

But those links are statistics, not video proof. Like I say, the real proof is on the tarmac, When the cars are actually racing head to head.

Dont get me wrong, I think the Elise is a good car, certainly the Exige. But once VTEC kicks in on the S2000, It's bye bye Elise.

 

[RedSuinit]

But those links are statistics, not video proof. Like I say, the real proof is on the tarmac, When the cars are actually racing head to head.

Dont get me wrong, I think the Elise is a good car, certainly the Exige. But once VTEC kicks in on the S2000, It's bye bye Elise.

You do realize that both the Elise and the 111R have VTEC as well right? Toyota calls it VVT-i (intelligent variable valve timing) and does the exact same thing, the Elise is equipped with the 1zz-fe Toyota engine (making ~125bhp) and the 111R is equiped with the 2zz-ge Toyota engine (making ~200 bhp) and both are equipped with VVT-i technology. I am not slamming I just wasn't sure if you realized both of those cars had essentially the samy type of technology.

Just wondering too, what do you think a turbo or supercharger makes an engine sound like? Because VTEC won't give you that kind of sound. Not calling you stupid or anything I just think you might be mistaken about what it sounds like.


But, also like others have said, video isn't everything. There are just too many variables, driver, modifications, tires, amount of wear already in the tires, etc. for video proof, unless we have the ample data to say that all the cars have drivers of equal talent, same grade and wear of tires, that both of the cars are stock. Data is the more prominent way of dtermining a superior car. These tests that they do (especially since both links are from the same website) bith were probably driven by the same person, I looked at the tires used, and while they are different tires, but the grip rating for both sets of tires is near the same. The Elises being a shot better, but barely. The skidpad is on the road, and the slalom is tested on the road (the sport compact skid pand and slalom mind you so they were both the same) and 0-60 and 1/4 mile are both on the strip so, what about that data isn't on the tarmac? Don't take my comments the wrong way mind you, just know I am lost by your comment. 👍

Luke

 

[GT_Fanatic]

what do you think a turbo or supercharger makes an engine sound like? Because VTEC won't give you that kind of sound. Not calling you stupid or anything I just think you might be mistaken about what it sounds like.

Luke

That S2000 in the first video had it's soft top down, which would make the sound of the engine reverberate loudly, therefore giving you the impression that it has been modified in some way. If it was turbo equipped, you would hear the blow off valve.

When the video starts, it says "machine... Honda S2000", which would indicate that it is a standard S2000. Also note one of the other cars in the race, namely the Cleo V6 Turbo. If the S2000 had been turbo equipped, it would of stated it.

 

[RedSuinit]

That S2000 in the first video had it's soft top down, which would make the sound of the engine reverberate loudly, therefore giving you the impression that it has been modified in some way. If it was turbo equipped, you would hear the blow off valve.

When the video starts, it says "machine... Honda S2000", which would indicate that it is a standard S2000. Also note one of the other cars in the race, namely the Cleo V6 Turbo. If the S2000 had been turbo equipped, it would of stated it.

Not necessarily, The blow off vavle could be integrated into the wastegate (just like it is on the standard 90-99 MKII MR2 Turbo) so you might not hear the blow off valve. Both the Turbo and supercharger give off a sloight whine, kind of like a whistle it's very faint but it's the only definate to tell if a car is turbocharged or supercharged. But it could be the wind from the top being down, but I am pretty sure it's a turbo, or supercharger. Also the video might not state that the s2000 is turbocharged (note part of it is in japanese, so I don't know what is says).

Once again, just a thought. Not saying that the s2000 isn't a great car, it is. Just also saying that your videos might not prove as much as you think. 👍

Luke

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Once again, just a thought. Not saying that the s2000 isn't a great car, it is. Just also saying that your videos might not prove as much as you think. 👍

Luke

Well we all have our own opinions on different cars, but each racer in those videos were there for a purpose, and that was to win, not promote the S2000.

Using the excuse that the S2000 in the second vid was either supercharged or turbo charged, holds no water because all the other cars could of been turbo or supercharged also.

The second vid is 100% proof that the Elise 111R couldn't take the S2000. 👍

 

[RedSuinit]

Well we all have our own opinions on different cars, but each racer in those videos were there for a purpose, and that was to win, not promote the S2000.

Using the excuse that the S2000 in the second vid was either supercharged or turbo charged, holds no water because all the other cars could of been turbo or supercharged also.

The second vid is 100% proof that the Elise 111R couldn't take the S2000. 👍

Actually the first video looked like a track day, not a race. Each racer was probably there to have fun, not necessarily to whoop the other racers. Or are you saying that an S2000 stock can outpace a Supra? Because it out-accelerated a Supra, that tells me track day, not hardcore race. Not saying I'm right, but that just seems a little too far fetched for me that an S2000 can out-accelerate a Supra when both are going all out. 👍 The second video halfway through the Elise in in front of the S2000 and the Gallardo is in front of the Elise and the S2000, is only to be seen once more and it's behind the Elise. Did you even read the comments I made about the videos the first time? Just wondering.

EDIT: I just watched the video again, first ten seconds, the Elise is in front, off the accelerator, letting the s2000 in front, it is pretty even paced on both with the elise gaining a little (and I mean a little) until 1:04 where you can clearly see in the rear veiw mirror where the driver (of the 111R) removes his focus from the driving and begins to wave and honk at someone off to his left. After that the s2000 puts on his warning lights, and pulls off to the side, but once again the casuality of the driver tells me that it is once again a track day, not a serious race. Apologies for my first analysis, I didn't notice him put on his warning lights before now. I personally think they are both great cars with the Elise 111R being a shade faster.

But, then again both of those cars shudder in fear of the 90-99 MKII MR2 Turbo! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Luke

 

[BonzoHarry]

But those links are statistics, not video proof. Like I say, the real proof is on the tarmac, When the cars are actually racing head to head.

I've given you lap times. That's plenty of proof, when you put two cars on a track together then you have to factor in drivers. If I put michael schumacher in an S2000 and I drove a z06, he would still probably beat me. That doesn't mean the s2k is a better track car though.

Dont get me wrong, I think the Elise is a good car, certainly the Exige. But once VTEC kicks in on the S2000, It's bye bye Elise.

Both of the cars have variable valve timing. PLUS I've already shown you the elise is faster in the quarter mile by a substantial amount. The s2k is trapping 90mph, that's about 4th, that's 4 gears of vtec and the elise still out trapped it. How much more vtec do you need?

According to top gear (The Stig, dun dun dun) the s2000 ran a 1:37.4 and the elise ran a 1:35.6. Around the nurburging Horst von Saurma drove both cars for the same magazine (Sport Auto) and the s2000 ran an 8:39 and the lotus ran an 8:25.

And I swear, if you go back to those same 2 videos I'm going to lose all faith in humanity. I've given you 3 creditable track sources as well as information on both cars, and in all 4 accounts the lotus is faster. I honestly do not understand why you are having such a hard time accepting this.

The lotus is what it is, a track day car that can't even haul a luggage case. The s2000 is what it is, a fun daily driver than can also be taken to the track. I mean you're comparing the s2000 to a car that nearly costs twice as much, comes in trim levels that include "no headlights" and a fire suppression system, and the options sheet includes things like "carpet" and "a/c". I mean come on.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Actually the first video looked like a track day, not a race. Each racer was probably there to have fun, not necessarily to whoop the other racers. Or are you saying that an S2000 stock can outpace a Supra? Because it out-accelerated a Supra, that tells me track day, not hardcore race. Not saying I'm right, but that just seems a little too far fetched for me that an S2000 can out-accelerate a Supra when both are going all out. 👍 The second video halfway through the Elise in in front of the S2000 and the Gallardo is in front of the Elise and the S2000, is only to be seen once more and it's behind the Elise. Did you even read the comments I made about the videos the first time? Just wondering.

Luke

After the Elise in the second vid failed in it's attempt to take the S2000, the S2000 put on hazards to indicate that he was pulling aside to let the Elise pass. Then it cuts onto the Gallardo. if you notice that in the latter part of the Elise, Gallardo tussle, the S2000 is up front in the final esses. Using the ongoing excuse that the S2000 in the first vid is in some way modified, is just denying the obvious. i've provided video proof that a S2000 out paces a Lotus Elise. provide evidence, video, not statistics on paper, that shows otherwise. 👍

 

[RedSuinit]

After the Elise in the second vid failed in it's attempt to take the S2000, the S2000 put on hazards to indicate that he was pulling aside to let the Elise pass. Then it cuts onto the Gallardo. if you notice that in the latter part of the Elise, Gallardo tussle, the S2000 is up front in the final esses. Using the ongoing excuse that the S2000 in the first vid is in some way modified, is just denying the obvious. i've provided video proof that a S2000 out paces a Lotus Elise. provide evidence, video, not statistics on paper, that shows otherwise. 👍

Read my edit.

 

[BonzoHarry]

provide evidence, video, not statistics on paper, that shows otherwise. 👍

I'll restate my analogy differently since you failed to read, understand and/or acknowledge it earlier.

If you put Michael Schumacher in an elise and me in an s2k, the elise wins.
If you put Michael Shcumacher in an s2000 and me in an elise, the s2000 wins.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNNYPGidtwo
omgogmogmgogmgo lotus wins! lotus wins! obviously the lotus is a better track car because the lotus wins in the video!

-_- yea, it sounds dumb doesn't it? My friend has a video of a cooper-S running down a z06 on the track, does that mean the cooper-S is a better track car than the z06? It means virtually every video is a worthless comparison tool. Maybe the guy driving the z06 has one eye, never been any track before, was running on 2 spare tires, had low brake fluid, and one arm; and the cooper driver was an instructor who works at that track and has 20k of performance mods done to the mini?

 

[RedSuinit]

I'll restate my analogy differently since you failed to read, understand and/or acknowledge it earlier.

If you put Michael Schumacher in an elise and me in an s2k, the elise wins.
If you put Michael Shcumacher in an s2000 and me in an elise, the s2000 wins.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNNYPGidtwo
omgogmogmgogmgo lotus wins! lotus wins! obviously the lotus is a better track car because the lotus wins in the video!

-_- yea, it sounds dumb doesn't it? My friend has a video of a cooper-S running down a z06 on the track, does that mean the cooper-S is a better track car than the z06?

Actually a Z06 is not a very good track car, it's a good drag car, but not a good track car.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

I've given you lap times. That's plenty of proof, when you put two cars on a track together then you have to factor in drivers. If I put michael schumacher in an S2000 and I drove a z06, he would still probably beat me. That doesn't mean the s2k is a better track car though.





Both of the cars have variable valve timing. PLUS I've already shown you the elise is faster in the quarter mile by a substantial amount. The s2k is trapping 90mph, that's about 4th, that's 4 gears of vtec and the elise still out trapped it. How much more vtec do you need?

According to top gear (The Stig, dun dun dun) the s2000 ran a 1:37.4 and the elise ran a 1:35.6. Around the nurburging Horst von Saurma drove both cars for the same magazine (Sport Auto) and the s2000 ran an 8:39 and the lotus ran an 8:25.

And I swear, if you go back to those same 2 videos I'm going to lose all faith in humanity. I've given you 3 creditable track sources as well as information on both cars, and in all 4 accounts the lotus is faster. I honestly do not understand why you are having such a hard time accepting this.

The lotus is what it is, a track day car that can't even haul a luggage case. The s2000 is what it is, a fun daily driver than can also be taken to the track. I mean you're comparing the s2000 to a car that nearly costs twice as much, comes in trim levels that include "no headlights" and a fire suppression system, and the options sheet includes things like "carpet" and "a/c". I mean come on.

Red my edit.

It's not what paper statistics say, it's what the cars on the tarmac do that counts. Even Stig has quoted that.

 

[BonzoHarry]

Actually a Z06 is not a very good track car, it's a good drag car, but not a good track car.

I would say it's not bad.

Around the ring:
7:54 Mercedes CLK DTM AMG
7:55 Caterham R500 Superlight
7:55 Ferrari F430
7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06
7:56 Honda NSX-R (NA2)
7:56 Porsche 911 Turbo
7:56 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale f1

 

[RedSuinit]

Thanks. I didnt notice the mistype before!

I would say it's not bad.

Around the ring:
7:54 Mercedes CLK DTM AMG
7:55 Caterham R500 Superlight
7:55 Ferrari F430
7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06
7:56 Honda NSX-R (NA2)
7:56 Porsche 911 Turbo
7:56 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale f1

Well, in a short course with no straights then no thcorvette is not that great, but with the ring you've made your point good sir!

Luke

 

[BonzoHarry]

It's not what paper statistics say, it's what the cars on the tarmac do that counts. Even Stig has quoted that.

okay, so what now? the world implodes? I've got a video of a lotus beating an s2000 and you've got a video of an s200 beating a lotus.

So maybe the plan is, we both research from now until the time we have discovered every videos of s2000's vs elises on the internet, then we'll post them all, watch them all, tally which cars win each time and THEN we'll know which car is better?

How about this...an F1 car weighs 600kg, 900hp, 300ft/lbs, 0-100 in 3.5(est.) seconds, and does the quarter mile in 9.5sec
My s6 weighs 1000kg, has 300hp, 320ft/lbs, 0-100 in 15(est.) seconds, and does the quarter mile in...I don't even know.

Obviously we can't draw any conclusions on which car is faster around the track because it doesn't matter what paper statistics say.


edit: sorry, allow me to rephrase that. Obviously we can't use paper statistics if they don't agree with what we're trying to argue. I would put money down that if the s2000 accelerated faster, stopped shorter, handled better, and slalomed faster (on paper) you would be saying paper statistics do matter.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

okay, so what now? the world implodes? I've got a video of a lotus beating an s2000 and you've got a video of an s200 beating a lotus.

So maybe the plan is, we both research from now until the time we have discovered every videos of s2000's vs elises on the internet, then we'll post them all, watch them all, tally which cars win each time and THEN we'll know which car is better?

How about this...an F1 car weighs 600kg, 900hp, 300ft/lbs, 0-100 in 3.5(est.) seconds, and does the quarter mile in 9.5sec
My s6 weighs 1000kg, has 300hp, 320ft/lbs, 0-100 in 15(est.) seconds, and does the quarter mile in...I don't even know.

Obviously we can't draw any conclusions on which car is faster around the track because it doesn't matter what paper statistics say.


edit: sorry, allow me to rephrase that. Obviously we can't use paper statistics if they don't agree with what we're trying to argue. I would put money down that if the s2000 accelerated faster, stopped shorter, handled better, and slalomed faster (on paper) you would be saying paper statistics do matter.

Paper statistics don't mean anything to me. Like Stig once said, it's the cars on the tarmac that count.
Since the original discussion was about the Lotus Elise and the Honda S2000 GT1 turbo in the GT5p game, then got re-directed into real life car performance. Seeing as you think the bog standard S2000 is no comparison to an Elise, then why not take a look at this. It's an unmodified S2000 a fair distance apart from the very powerfull Elise Exige. Not only does the S2000 catch it with relative ease, it passes it and leaves it behind.

http://www.dailymotion.com/cluster/auto/video/x2rnoi_honda-s2000-vs-lotus-exige-race_auto?from=rrs

enjoy.

 

[BonzoHarry]

I especially how you failed to acknowledge that video I posted, so I'll post another video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psj872-lTUA
omg the lotus wins!

..and let me get this straight, you base your assumption strictly on videos. So if you just happened to have picked videos where the elises outran s2k's then you'd think the elise was the best car?

or we can look at auto-x results: http://www.scca.org/documents/resultfiles/5632_Final Results 11.14.pdf

The elise is rated at Super-Stock and the S2000 is rated at A-stock...and that means the SCCA recognizes that the elise is in fact a faster car, which is why it's grouped with the GT3 and the s2000 is grouped with the solstice.

edit: I just think it's so g*d d*mn crazy.
-Car and Driver tested the cars and showed the elise was faster
-The stig drove both cars around the same track, and the elise was faster
-The scca recognizes that the elise is faster
-Sport Auto had a professional driver drive both cars around the same track, and the elise was faster
-The performance figures for both cars will tell you the elise is faster

and you're there on youtube thinking, "the whole world is lying to me, I've seen that video where the s2000 beats the elise, yea, that proves they're all lying!"

You say you don't believe stuff on paper, but where the hell do you think this paper stuff came from? Some guy didn't walk around the elise and go, "yea that looks like it'll run a 1'38." or "Psh...this could totally run a 13.4sec 1/4 mile."

 

[TurkeyBurgers]

I DO believe that you guys love your individual cars VERY MUCH, that means a lot. No Offense to you guys, but EVERYONE knows that the new M3 will smoke both of those junkers