Civic Sadness

  • Thread starter Thread starter ~Sp33~
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Thanks for your praise 8400rpm!

I like that John! Said like a real gentleman. Even though you might not be a Honda Civic fan, I respect that you put things in fairness of words. That said, I am a Honda fan but I also respect and love lots of other cars, even American ones which I think have lots of character..

Character, now that is something most Japanese cars lack. Most of them nowadays are fast, smart, reliable, will pull around corners while sipping petrol (compared to Euro or American cars) but mostly when driven 'live' have little character.

Actually to be fair, that seems the direction the automakers are headed in this age. You see guys, with the demands of safety and convienence, cars like the EP3 compared to the EK9. Sit in a WRX from 1998 and a new one and you will see the difference.

This is something you simply cannot experience in any game, no matter how advanced. So, my point is that while some of us may 'miss' certain models that are close - in sp33's case, the Civic Ferio (sedan). really, there is not much difference to the 3dr hatch. Weight you can reduce and suspension you can tune..the kick is just to 'see' that model which you like in the game. This I can understand...I wish there was a EG9 Ferio...but too bad...sigh....

Actually what I would really like to see is more Euro and American cars..especially older ones...that shouyld bring more variety into the series..

Anyone dissagree?
 
Never mind the wimpy civic, where is my sentra, SE or SE-R or SE-R Spec V
 
So some people dont think civics are quick eh? for a front wheel drive car i have to say yous are wrong - considering on release the EP civic type-r was awarded the fastest production FF car in the world, maybe not now because of Alfa Romeo!

I drive a 1.4i civik EK hatch - These statistics may not be fast compared to alot of cars but i can get 0-60 in 8.5 secs (it says 11.5 in the manual) top speed was 136/7mph (it says 111mph in the manual) it took a while to get there but to get to 120mph is fast enough plus its only at 5000rpm in 5th @120 it revs all the way to 7500rpm then it bounces off the limiter 8000rpm on dash, find another (standard except for a large air intake) 1.4i that can do that!

Oh yeah heres a couple of pics of nice EK hatches - for all yous haters (just to show how nice they are)

97hondacivictyper2ni.jpg

97hondacivictyper11sk.jpg

smoothcivicek9pic14ty.jpg

smoothcivicek9pic2stunning9at.jpg
 
how about a 1.3 litre with about 250 hp ? - stock -

; )
 
TwinTurboJay
how about a 1.3 litre with about 250 hp ? - stock -

; )
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wats your point? which car?
 
well, you had said 1.4 litres that are as powerful....what about a 1.3, smaller, and more powerful !

: )
 
TwinTurboJay
well, you had said 1.4 litres that are as powerful....what about a 1.3, smaller, and more powerful !

: )
Click to expand...

ok so which car is that? im not saying a smaller engined car cant beat mine nor come with more power - im not a racer - i love fast cars (not saying mines is) but once i was racing a 1.0ltr daihatsu charade turbo - a 1.0ltr and it smoked my civic no problem!
 
I am just buggin you, thats all...1.3 litre rotary from an RX7...doesn't realyl count.

Cheers
 
TwinTurboJay
I am just buggin you, thats all...1.3 litre rotary from an RX7...doesn't realyl count.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Ah the RX7 & 8 well its still the same size as a 1.3
 
Some good valid points. Especially Tachi's response. I didn't read em all tho. Some were too wordy/long.

I think the best thing is what you said here talking about ricers vs racers.

TachiTJRS
As I said ricers are in true fashion RICERS are not racers, they are posers...a true racer can use any car and maximise its potential whether it is a economy model or a 'racing' model (note my use of inverted commas.)
Click to expand...

Hmm... you have to understand though that its hard not to see all you honda/japanese-car lovers as overhyping/ricers/wanna-bes. Why? because thats what the majority of your fans are.... unfortunately. Or maybe not the majority, but that is what the sterotype has become. And sterotypes dont just come out of nowhere!!

--------------------------------------------

But I still defend that it is an economy car and you would get better results spending a little extra money on a better base car. It's like investing in anything. if you buy something that is sooo cheap then the only way to get the same performance as a superior model will be to mod it heavily or put add ons. and you will reach the limit a LOT sooner than a car that is better at base.

---------------------------------------------

This is basically now an argument of taste tho! and obviously you like japanese cars and I do not really. I give them credit for good cars, reliable, inexpensive, utilitarian, and such. But they are tooooooooooooooooo generic and uninspired designs. If you want a distinguising car japanese cars do not have many unique characteristics... probably the only stand out is the NSX... maybe the rx-7 fd... and... maybe evo/wrx. but the rx-7, evo, and wrx all do not have any very arresting design stand outs that make you stop and really appreciate it.

ps may i also state that the NSX design that i find more attractive... is old as ever. i think more than 10 years old? at least?
 
Well, i cant speak for everone in this thread, but i prefer my cars unmodded, I like to exploit cars potential when they are standard. Ive seen a few pictures posted up in here, theyre some great cars ( my fav being the white sedan in the first pic on pg3 ). Please do not call people ricers/overhyping wannabe's. This statement is a perspective on how you feel. Please keep that to yourself. Theyre may be ricers in here, good for them. Theres no need to discriminate against them.

Thanks for some great debate, Keep posting pics, its great to see what your talking about. Thats a neat little hatch you got there too barry. ^^
 
synik
Some good valid points. Especially Tachi's response. I didn't read em all tho. Some were too wordy/long.

I think the best thing is what you said here talking about ricers vs racers.



Hmm... you have to understand though that its hard not to see all you honda/japanese-car lovers as overhyping/ricers/wanna-bes. Why? because thats what the majority of your fans are.... unfortunately. Or maybe not the majority, but that is what the sterotype has become. And sterotypes dont just come out of nowhere!!

--------------------------------------------

But I still defend that it is an economy car and you would get better results spending a little extra money on a better base car. It's like investing in anything. if you buy something that is sooo cheap then the only way to get the same performance as a superior model will be to mod it heavily or put add ons. and you will reach the limit a LOT sooner than a car that is better at base.

---------------------------------------------

This is basically now an argument of taste tho! and obviously you like japanese cars and I do not really. I give them credit for good cars, reliable, inexpensive, utilitarian, and such. But they are tooooooooooooooooo generic and uninspired designs. If you want a distinguising car japanese cars do not have many unique characteristics... probably the only stand out is the NSX... maybe the rx-7 fd... and... maybe evo/wrx. but the rx-7, evo, and wrx all do not have any very arresting design stand outs that make you stop and really appreciate it.

ps may i also state that the NSX design that i find more attractive... is old as ever. i think more than 10 years old? at least?
Click to expand...


Accpeted my friend. Yes, stereotypes are damaging, even here in Singapore. Most Honda ricers (here we call them Ah Bengs) here are quite similar to the ones you find in the States and they 'think' they are good street racers.

Yes, evn the Civic Type R is an economy car, only because the VTEC engine is very efficient and the Civic is light. But we are talking about 'sports cars' of different classes.

Cars like the Evo, WRX, FD, GT-R, NSX would probably fall under the

High Performance Class

The FF NA and generally 180bhp=220bhp would fall in the

Performance Class

In any case, aside from the S2000 and NSX, Honda just aimed at the upper class. While the FF Hondas are more like the hot hatch class, incidently which are popular in Europe and Japan. So taste has become a preference of culture as well.

In any case, I respect your comment.

OK...sp33...your're gonna love this...

Team Lightning Blue from Singapore!! All are at least real SiR



This is the car on the extreme right of the previous pic....another REAL EK9 (no. 3 of 5)

 
very nice 👍 yeah i can see that blue EG'95ferio in the background.. very nice indeed. I was thinking about getting one for muh first car.. And hopefully i can .. but things arent looking good.. there just hold thier value too well. Bastards. im just going to have to settle for an EF sedan ;P
 
Since we're showing some realistic pictures, literally. :)

Here's my collection of Honda photos from past photoshoots and car meets. :)







 
I don't know. Maybe since the Civic is nowhere near sports car, there must be some level of engineering or such which has that high-performance enigma within the car. Just because the majority of Hondas (much less Civics) you see are usually in tuner magazines like Super Street and Sport Compact Car, it doesn't mean the car serves that purpose. I don't think Civics are just grocery getters. If a car has good performance to shy itself away from the "just another boring car" line, then it deserves a bit more attention despite any dullness.

I can go on all day about Civic vs. the world, but choose not to. Some cars are engineered with performance that provides real get-up-and-go, or flawless handling in the corners. And I'm not talking about 4 turns on a "short track" or any certain oval. I guess I can attribute the fanaticism for the Civic by comparing it to the Minis. Those Mini Coopers are small machines that proved one thing among others- you don't have to have a full-sized car to enjoy the thrill of driving. Peppy cars with an Inline-4 or an Inline-6 can still be every bit as fun as a V8 Mustang, a V10 Dodge Viper, or any supercar out of Ferrari. I'm not trying to overpower the Civic, but for some people, there is a secret performer within Civics that only the driver can unlock. I was disappointed with this car in Gran Turismo 4, but the Driders Gathers Civic Race Car in GT4 was modified for performance in the corners, quick acceleration, and quick stopping power. I guess you can say if you want the ultimate Civic in GT4, the Gathers Drider Civic is your best bet at over 450K Credits. Only thing is, you better hope the race allows Production Cars only, and/or Standard or Sports Tires. But if you want a Civic to take to any race track, you'll have to completely max out your Civic of choice. While not a Production Car either, the Spoon Sports Civic Type-R is also a good choice.

If you have a favorite car and it's in GT4, hope you enjoy it to the fullest. Remember. You have a favorite car, and no matter what anyone else thinks, you deserve to race the car you want to own so badly if it's in the game.
 
Mr Laocean
Since we're showing some realistic pictures, literally. :)

Here's my collection of Honda photos from past photoshoots and car meets. :)
Click to expand...

Nice 👍
 
TwinTurboJay
Never mind the wimpy civic, where is my sentra, SE or SE-R or SE-R Spec V
Click to expand...

Sorry for you... the last performance Sentra in GT was the Pulsar VZ-R in GT2...

and that was a crappy engine, SR16VE, 10,000++ rpm and no torque. :(

I was lucky, I got my wish for GT4... a Mazda Protege sedan... just had to change the stupid autobox for something sportier. :) ...it's still slow as ****, but it makes me HAPPY.

It's amazing how you just say the word "Civic" or "Honda" around here and people start bashing and haranguing you... (well most of them left on page 2... ). I've personally enjoyed driving Civic SiRs (all Ah Beng'd out, too) and Type-R engined cars. Anyone who derides them as not being real sports cars is missing the point... they're fun. That's it. Miatas are fun, too. They're reckoned as pretty good sports cars by most anyone who has done some track time or serious road time in one. And the Miata is slower than almost any B-engined Civic.

GT4 is made for a wide number of enthusiasts, and I think it does itself pretty well. Some of us may decry the lack of some "great" or "okay" cars, but if you can't find what you want, odds are there's something else in there that's almost exactly the same.
 
I have seen quite a few cars that while not considered fast are still a blast to drive.

I have always found VW beetles to be a blast to drive (69+ beetles with the better rear suspension). With only some minor tweaking to the suspension and maybe 100hp or so you now have a car that is an absolute blast to drive. put decent shocks, a bit better anti roll bar, and replace the worn out parts you get a car that has suprisingly livley handling and great steering feel (have yet to find a power steering system that can match the feel of a good manual steering setup).

GTIs weren't the first VWs to have a decent fun to drive factor. The Air cooled VWs are even capable of drifting due to their RWD if you have enough power to get the car loose.

Yes I do own an old beetle. A 73 that has had just enough work done to it to make it a blast to drive.

I also own an integra so I can appreciate what you guys are saying about Hondas. My teg is also a blast to drive.
 
Wow! I never expected so many Honda VTEC owners here on this forum. Good support.

Ok, some info about the Drider Civic Type R race car.

The Drider Civic was fielded by Team Gathers Drider, supported by Honda in the Japan GT Suzuka 8 hour endurance race. It won against GT-R, RX-7 and many other more powerful cars. Simply because the Civic had better fuel economy, used less tyres and therefore pitted in less. Honda's advanced and efficeint pit crew and excellent drivers also saved the day.

The Drider Civic was also the reason Honda created the EK9 Civic Type R. Previously, they used the EK4 Civic SiR II. The class which is competed in was Group N, which must be based on a stock production car. Only the suspension settings, tyre and brakes could be changed and to an extent, the gear ratios and ECU. Exhaust could be N1 type and without a primary cat.

The EK9 had a 1.6 VTEC with stock 185bhp, better chassis, and suspension design comapred to the SiR II 170bhp. The EK9's B16B engine was also designed to be an endurance engine as many design features could be seen in it's development.

That's why you might find it sucks as a race car in the game. In fact, if you do a race with a tuner car, the Drider Civic might be there, showing it is not an all out race car like the bigger boys.

In fact, this EK9 Gathers's win was so significant with the debut of the EK9 that it is displayed at Honda's Collection Hall museum at Twin Ring Motegi. That is why it is included in GT4 folks.
Here are some pics of a real Gathers Drider from a 1999 version on the Tokachi 24hours race in Japan in 2000.





 
it looks much better in reallife then in GT4, thanks for the insight, very interesting. 👍
 
TachiTJRS
Specially for SP33 and Fasicati...pics of my former Civic Ferio SiR EG9 and my present EK9
Click to expand...


*Looks at the images*

Hmmm.. very familiar.......

TachiTJRS, are you David Ting, the former Singapore Editor for Autocar Asean?


Back to the topic->

They should've included special Japan-spec cars like the EK Civic Ferio Vi-RS(This is my favourite Civic Sedan), ES Civic Ferio RS 1.7 and also Non-Japanese specials like the Civic 2.0 i-VTEC (Both current & previous facelift versions).
 
TOYOTA FR3AK
*Looks at the images*

Hmmm.. very familiar.......

TachiTJRS, are you David Ting, the former Singapore Editor for Autocar Asean?


Back to the topic->

They should've included special Japan-spec cars like the EK Civic Ferio Vi-RS(This is my favourite Civic Sedan), ES Civic Ferio RS 1.7 and also Non-Japanese specials like the Civic 2.0 i-VTEC (Both current & previous facelift versions).
Click to expand...


No mate, but he is a friend and I bought it from the guy whom he sold it to last year...Dave and I used to run around in his EK9 and my EG9..who are you mate?

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Yeah, the EK3 and ES5 would have been a welcome addition. What I cannot understand is why PD did not include the Fit 1.5 VTEC and Odessey Absolute!

They left us with the second rate version.....crap...
 
whats the odessey got?.. The one in the game is the only model that Australia has got.. and i quite like it.. very chunky looking 👍
 
If you want a quick and nice-performing Civic (don't laugh), try to win the Motul Civic Race Car from the Civic One-Make race series. This Civic race car from 1987 is pretty quick and potent.

People, I think I've spoken to people that sportscars and supercars aren't really the only cars in the world worth driving. So when it comes to something like being able to race a Ferrari Enzo in Forza, I'm still happy racing a certain type of car. I B-Spec'ed the Daihatsu Midget D-Type Cup race with that one race at Motorland. But still, I don't mind racing these other types of cars. Because you start at the bottom then rise to the top. You don't go from a 12hp go-kart to an Audi R8, do you? Some people prefer lower-horsepowered cars. You can't assume that sportscars were only made for racing. While muscle cars were tearing ass in America and at some international events, the Mini Cooper was a tough-to-beat rally car. Any car can be made a competitor. One of my most bizarre tuner projects was a Toyota Tacoma X-Runner. I got this thing at about below 3100 lbs. For a truck, that's light. I had plans to tune up a late-model Toyota Prius in GT4. I was thinking about getting a Honda Odyssey or even the Element and see what kind of magic I can work.

People, I think GT4 really seemed fun to me in tuning cars. I got a 1969 Camaro SS, SRT-4, 2003 Accord, 2005 Ford Mustang, Dodge Viper SRT-10, just to name a few machines I've prepped as tuners, not to mention my own 2004-ish Pontiac GTO, so I can make my own GTO Drift Car like Rhys Millen. Any car can be a competitor... even a lowly Honda Civic. Every car has that little bit of performer in it. Just find it within. The Gran Turismo series got me to appreciate all sorts of cars. I'll race anything from a Honda S800 Race Car to the Pescarolos. That's been my conditioning in my time of playing the Gran Turismo games. To me, I don't think you're appreciating Gran Turismo games until you first learn to appreciate all cars regardless of statistics or performance.
 
~Sp33~
whats the odessey got?.. The one in the game is the only model that Australia has got.. and i quite like it.. very chunky looking 👍
Click to expand...

Th Odessey Absolute? Better suspension.....2.4 litre in-line four DOHC i-VTEC K24A

200bhp 232Nm

Chassis of the Odessey is based on the CL7 Accord Euro R, which has front and rear double wishbone suspension. Drove one here, its absolutely marvelous for a MPV!
 
synik
Some good valid points. Especially Tachi's response. I didn't read em all tho. Some were too wordy/long.

I think the best thing is what you said here talking about ricers vs racers.



Hmm... you have to understand though that its hard not to see all you honda/japanese-car lovers as overhyping/ricers/wanna-bes. Why? because thats what the majority of your fans are.... unfortunately. Or maybe not the majority, but that is what the sterotype has become. And sterotypes dont just come out of nowhere!!

--------------------------------------------

But I still defend that it is an economy car and you would get better results spending a little extra money on a better base car. It's like investing in anything. if you buy something that is sooo cheap then the only way to get the same performance as a superior model will be to mod it heavily or put add ons. and you will reach the limit a LOT sooner than a car that is better at base.

---------------------------------------------

This is basically now an argument of taste tho! and obviously you like japanese cars and I do not really. I give them credit for good cars, reliable, inexpensive, utilitarian, and such. But they are tooooooooooooooooo generic and uninspired designs. If you want a distinguising car japanese cars do not have many unique characteristics... probably the only stand out is the NSX... maybe the rx-7 fd... and... maybe evo/wrx. but the rx-7, evo, and wrx all do not have any very arresting design stand outs that make you stop and really appreciate it.

ps may i also state that the NSX design that i find more attractive... is old as ever. i think more than 10 years old? at least?
Click to expand...


I was going to rip into you for your previous response directed towards me until I read this post. Finally you are starting to see some light....

Please don't assume that just because I choose to race a Civic that I'm a ricer. I chose this car to race in because I prefer precise handling over ridiculous power. It's my choice to like this car, just as it is yours to chose American Iron.

I feel that each type of car has it's strengths and weaknesses.

Your typical American car has most of it's strength in it's engine. They're quite fast in the straights and have gobs of torque. They tend to be lacking in the handling department though. Not to say that they handle like crap I'm just saying that the handling abilities just aren't as good as the power. This does of course exclude the Z06 which has mamaged to be an amazing car in the corners as well as have tons of power.

Your typical Honda FF car is made for the twisties. The tighter the course, the more of an advantage it has. It's light, nimble, and very quick in the turns. They do however tend to be underpowered when it comes to longer straights. Not slow mind you, but a good driver in a Z28 will walk away from me on the long straights on a big course (but when we hit the turns again the Civic will typically catch back up).

I've been racing my Civic Si (2000) for 5.5 years now and I have won the local autocross championships here for the last 3 years. I have also taken my car to Texas World Speedway (3 miles, 15 turns) a few times and can keep up with the GT's, Z28's etc for most of the course.

I don't expect you or anyone other "Ricer Hater" to like the Civics. I would like to see a little respect for someones chariot of choice though. If you don't like something, don't degrade the person that does.....

Thanks for listening,

Kevin (32 years young)
Racer
Autocross Novice Instructor
Car Nut
 
TachiTJRS
No mate, but he is a friend and I bought it from the guy whom he sold it to last year...Dave and I used to run around in his EK9 and my EG9..who are you mate?
Click to expand...

I'm one of them regular Autocar Asean readers(Ever since the first issue came out in Malaysia!). I actually enjoy David's colummn in the magazine, but it was sad to see him missing from the magazine nowadays.

btw, what car is David driving now?
 
fastcatsi
II've been racing my Civic Si (2000) for 5.5 years now and I have won the local autocross championships here for the last 3 years. I have also taken my car to Texas World Speedway (3 miles, 15 turns) a few times and can keep up with the GT's, Z28's etc for most of the course.
Click to expand...


You got any pics? id love to see it :)
 
TOYOTA FR3AK
I'm one of them regular Autocar Asean readers(Ever since the first issue came out in Malaysia!). I actually enjoy David's colummn in the magazine, but it was sad to see him missing from the magazine nowadays.

btw, what car is David driving now?
Click to expand...

David? Don't laugh.....a Suzuki Ignis Sport....or JDM Swift Sport...in Doraemon Blue.

It was a cheaper alternative.

The fact is that me and David were colleagues in Autocar Asean. During the last days of Singapore Auto Trader, I was the guy handling the mag....I went by the name Kenneth Lim

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