Control pad DS3 quicker than Steering Wheel

[SVPSkins]

Ofcourse it did. But the average difference isn't the same thing as the actual difference. And the average difference won't tell us how much faster a wheel is.

💡

 

[DaBomm4]

The point most are trying to make is if you practice a lot with the DS3, you should be able to reduce the gap significantly. If your own experience against the time trials is a big gap, that is more due to your ability with the input device rather than the other input being "better". I have been playing for only 2 years and once I got comfortable with how to drive on GT5, I struggled massively to get golds on time trial events. By the start of GT6 I was closer because I practiced, and now I can be close to matching the times by my friends. I would not say I am a good or a great driver, but I am now good enough to get gold on most time trials and I have fun doing so.

 

[stormbringer]

Youre never going to achieve the precision of a wheel and pedals on a ds3.

You can use the analog sticks or r2 l2 or whatever button for acceleration and braking...youre still not going to achieve it.

The more range of control you have, the more precise you can be. When it comes to racing, control and precision is what matters.

 

[Pseudopod]

Again, it depends. Some tracks aren't complex enough to require all the precision and feedback a wheel can supply, and some cars don't have so high performance that they'll fly off the track if your more inaccurate controller accidentally gives it 5% more power than you wanted.

When you have as many attempts as you want, and never risk destroying your car or killing yourself in an accident, you can overcome the lack of feedback with enough trials and errors until you know by heart exactly what happens at which point of the track. This too, is much easier to achieve on short and simple tracks than on long and complex ones.

 

[NOSaholic]

I'm glad to see that there are many people with the same feelings I have. The problem is that when you are talking about the elite of the elite, people who drive NOTHING but controllers and play all the time, versus people who drive NOTHING but wheels and play all the time, and they are only 2 or 3 tenths off. Start adding that up over multiple laps. It's seconds of difference. 2 or 3 tenths is 2 or 3 car lengths in a drag race. Losing is still losing.

But, the vast majority of players are not hardcore like you speak of. So the average is the standard by which you judge the results.

DS3 users are at a distinct disadvantage, by like I said, 5 seconds. You take the AVERAGE player on a DS3 versus and AVERAGE player on a wheel, and it will be close to 5 seconds. You take a once in a while player versus a once in a while player and it probably is 10 or 15 seconds or more.

Tell you what, go put a DS3 in place of your controls in a real car and see how well you drive. Then put the wheel and pedals back in. It will be a helluva lot more than 5 friggin seconds!

I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, and always on a controller. The wheel always has the advantage due to range of motion in steering and the ability to use hands AND feet to control all the inputs necessary. The wheel always wins.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I wonder what the best wheel for GT7 will be. I don't want to buy a T300 just in case something better comes along.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a much better wheel than the T300 in that price range. Not quite as strong as a T500, but if you don't want limb tearing FFB (which doesn't make you any faster of course), the T300 is an exceptional wheel.

 

[DaBomm4]

I stated a few tenths for a normal track. Not the Nurburgring. I believe it depends on the car mostly. But it's a few tenths on a normal track. The majority of people that CAN place well in TT's end up getting wheels. I got a wheel. Doodle got a wheel loydeselite got a wheel. Didn't tigney start on a pad also? There isn't much of a chance for pads to show well in time trials. Especially considering the general opinion of gt6.

I'm glad to see that there are many people with the same feelings I have. The problem is that when you are talking about the elite of the elite, people who drive NOTHING but controllers and play all the time, versus people who drive NOTHING but wheels and play all the time, and they are only 2 or 3 tenths off. Start adding that up over multiple laps. It's seconds of difference. 2 or 3 tenths is 2 or 3 car lengths in a drag race. Losing is still losing.

But, the vast majority of players are not hardcore like you speak of. So the average is the standard by which you judge the results.

DS3 users are at a distinct disadvantage, by like I said, 5 seconds. You take the AVERAGE player on a DS3 versus and AVERAGE player on a wheel, and it will be close to 5 seconds. You take a once in a while player versus a once in a while player and it probably is 10 or 15 seconds or more.

Tell you what, go put a DS3 in place of your controls in a real car and see how well you drive. Then put the wheel and pedals back in. It will be a helluva lot more than 5 friggin seconds!

I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, and always on a controller. The wheel always has the advantage due to range of motion in steering and the ability to use hands AND feet to control all the inputs necessary. The wheel always wins.

The only solution would be to have people who have wheels and were consistent on DS3 drive the same lap and compare times, and funnily enough, I have a G27 but I prefer the DS3 most of the time.

 

[stormbringer]

I'm glad to see that there are many people with the same feelings I have. The problem is that when you are talking about the elite of the elite, people who drive NOTHING but controllers and play all the time, versus people who drive NOTHING but wheels and play all the time, and they are only 2 or 3 tenths off. Start adding that up over multiple laps. It's seconds of difference. 2 or 3 tenths is 2 or 3 car lengths in a drag race. Losing is still losing.

But, the vast majority of players are not hardcore like you speak of. So the average is the standard by which you judge the results.

DS3 users are at a distinct disadvantage, by like I said, 5 seconds. You take the AVERAGE player on a DS3 versus and AVERAGE player on a wheel, and it will be close to 5 seconds. You take a once in a while player versus a once in a while player and it probably is 10 or 15 seconds or more.

Tell you what, go put a DS3 in place of your controls in a real car and see how well you drive. Then put the wheel and pedals back in. It will be a helluva lot more than 5 friggin seconds!

I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, and always on a controller. The wheel always has the advantage due to range of motion in steering and the ability to use hands AND feet to control all the inputs necessary. The wheel always wins.

I play with both a wheel and ds3.
Ds3, more often than the wheel nowadays, since its more convienient with a kid around.

Have compared my lap times plenty of times and, to me, its pretty much a fact...wheels much faster, much more precise and alot more fun than a ds3, anyday.

Completely agree with your post.

 

[rosckolove]

I'm glad to see that there are many people with the same feelings I have. The problem is that when you are talking about the elite of the elite, people who drive NOTHING but controllers and play all the time, versus people who drive NOTHING but wheels and play all the time, and they are only 2 or 3 tenths off. Start adding that up over multiple laps. It's seconds of difference. 2 or 3 tenths is 2 or 3 car lengths in a drag race. Losing is still losing.

But, the vast majority of players are not hardcore like you speak of. So the average is the standard by which you judge the results.

DS3 users are at a distinct disadvantage, by like I said, 5 seconds. You take the AVERAGE player on a DS3 versus and AVERAGE player on a wheel, and it will be close to 5 seconds. You take a once in a while player versus a once in a while player and it probably is 10 or 15 seconds or more.

Tell you what, go put a DS3 in place of your controls in a real car and see how well you drive. Then put the wheel and pedals back in. It will be a helluva lot more than 5 friggin seconds!

I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, and always on a controller. The wheel always has the advantage due to range of motion in steering and the ability to use hands AND feet to control all the inputs necessary. The wheel always wins.

Yea... I disagree with almost all of that. What I really find just completely wrong is.... "the vast majority of players are not hard core, so the average is the standard by which you judge your results"

If the question is "how much faster is the wheel compared to the DS3", the average that you speak of won't answer that at all. Now if you took the most capable driver on the wheel AND pad and averaged his splits from multiple track/car combo's that would be good.

Your method would not give us that answer, no matter what.

And @DaBomm4 I agree with your post above mine, as long as they are the best of the best players. To eliminate as much error as possible.

 

[Pseudopod]

Tell you what, go put a DS3 in place of your controls in a real car and see how well you drive. Then put the wheel and pedals back in. It will be a helluva lot more than 5 friggin seconds!

Not a very relevant situation. The vibration function of a DS3 is nowhere near as violent as the shakes and vibrations of a real car. The small input range of the stick and trigger buttons would be severely affected by that, while they are not when you are sitting in your chair in front of a TV.

It is however fully possible to drive a car without pedals or a steering wheel. This is what some disabled people do. These control devices are however much bigger and sturdier than a DS3 is.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yea... I disagree with almost all of that. What I really find just completely wrong is.... "the vast majority of players are not hard core, so the average is the standard by which you judge your results"

If the question is "how much faster is the wheel compared to the DS3", the average that you speak of won't answer that at all. Now if you took the most capable driver on the wheel AND pad and averaged his splits from multiple track/car combo's that would be good.

Your method would not give us that answer, no matter what.

And @DaBomm4 I agree with your post above mine, as long as they are the best of the best players. To eliminate as much error as possible.

Assuming all that you said is true for a moment, it still doesn't change the fact that the average player does not care what the DS3 vs. wheel difference is amongst the elite players, he cares what the difference is to him. When I go out and spend $150 to buy a graphite hockey stick to play Saturday night pickup hockey I care about what the stick does for me on Saturday night, not if it's 1 mph faster or slower in a slapshot contest of elite NHL players. It has to work for me and my skillset and my limitations.

 

[DaBomm4]

Assuming all that you said is true for a moment, it still doesn't change the fact that the average player does not care what the DS3 vs. wheel difference is amongst the elite players, he cares what the difference is to him. When I go out and spend $150 to buy a graphite hockey stick to play Saturday night pickup hockey I care about what the stick does for me on Saturday night, not if it's 1 mph faster or slower in a slapshot contest of elite NHL players. It has to work for me and my skillset and my limitations.

The problem still exists that we are trying to compare different users using different input devices, if a DS3 user is thinking about getting a wheel, he would probably want to know how much improvement other players had by switching. So one player, 2 best laps or average of maybe 10 laps each. I would offer to provide said data but I do not feel I am a consistent enough driver.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The problem still exists that we are trying to compare different users using different input devices, if a DS3 user is thinking about getting a wheel, he would probably want to know how much improvement other players had by switching. So one player, 2 best laps or average of maybe 10 laps each. I would offer to provide said data but I do not feel I am a consistent enough driver.

He wants to know what improvement he is likely to get as an average player yes. IMO no testing is needed. It's perfectly clear that a wheel is faster, and if I can get an edge up on my competition I'm going to take it. The added enjoyment to the game with a wheel is the real reward of investing in a new peripheral. If you an afford it, and have a place to use it, a good quality wheel, DFGT and up, will add the most enjoyment to racing games you will ever experience. Of course unless it's a TM product it won't work on the PS4 but that's a whole other thread.

 

[DaBomm4]

It's perfectly clear that a wheel is faster,

Not everyone gets the same experience, I have used both my G27 and DS3 enough that I feel comfortable in saying that I personally am not faster with the G27. Yes the wheels have an advantage because you can be more precise in every input you make, but each user is different.

 

[cjr3559]

I've been meaning to experiment with this for a while, but I'm an oddball case where I think I was faster using the DS3 (haven't use a DS3 since GT4). For me it comes down to the race view, since I used chase cam with the DS3 and use cockpit mode with the wheel. Using chase cam allowed me to see more of the track and anticipate turns and find apexes more easily. Also, I don't see how I could possibly be faster shifting with a gated gearbox and clutch versus the R and L buttons on the DS3. On the other hand, the smoother inputs of the steering wheel and gas/brake pedals have an advantage over the DS3, though there's something about the DS3 that allowed me to manipulate the steering and throttle/brake in a non-realistic driving manner.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Not everyone gets the same experience, I have used both my G27 and DS3 enough that I feel comfortable in saying that I personally am not faster with the G27. Yes the wheels have an advantage because you can be more precise in every input you make, but each user is different.

Each user is different which is why you don't rely on anecdotal evidence to draw conclusions. Which is also why I have so often quoted from a database of millions of pieces of information rather than relying on opinions. The evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of wheels being the far better input device for thousands upon thousands of players. Some of you guys want to have your cake and eat it too so you scour the database of millions of pieces of data looking for one or a handful that prove your case, rather than looking at the overwhelming evidence in favour of wheel superiority.

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

Personally, whether it's a controller or a wheel, it's just a tool to race with in the virtual world. With either you need to practice.

With experience comes confidence. With confidence comes daring. With daring comes speed. With speed comes smiles. With smiles comes enjoyment. With enjoyment comes more confidence... and so on.

Be happy with what you have. If you're happy and getting better with whatever tool you use, so will the people you race with! We are all just racing at the speed of life... enjoy the ride people!

Cheers

 

[cjr3559]

database of millions of pieces of information

No doubt that's a great database, but wish it documented the race view used and included GT6.

 

[DaBomm4]

Each user is different which is why you don't rely on anecdotal evidence to draw conclusions. Which is also why I have so often quoted from a database of millions of pieces of information rather than relying on opinions. The evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of wheels being the far better input device for thousands upon thousands of players. Some of you guys want to have your cake and eat it too so you scour the database of millions of pieces of data looking for one or a handful that prove your case, rather than looking at the overwhelming evidence in favour of wheel superiority.

All this proves is that most people who are fast are using a wheel.

The majority of people that CAN place well in TT's end up getting wheels.

It doesn't show if there is a difference in skill level from the DS3 user and the wheel user. That is why having people who have used both and are consistent on both giving test information would be more reliable than a database of users all varying in skill level, not using both inputs.

 

[Johnnypenso]

All this proves is that most people who are fast are using a wheel.

That's the point isn't it? The common assumption is that almost everyone in the world who is fast went out and bought a wheel. What proof do you have that that is the case?

It doesn't show if there is a difference in skill level from the DS3 user and the wheel user. That is why having people who have used both and are consistent on both giving test information would be more reliable than a database of users all varying in skill level, not using both inputs.

I don't see how a couple of points of anecdotal evidence is going to outweigh tens of thousands. A database of users of various skill levels is exactly what you want no? One person with one skill level is only going to give you the results that apply to them and their skill level and that can't be generalized to the whole of the user database.

 

[DaBomm4]

That's the point isn't it? The common assumption is that almost everyone in the world who is fast went out and bought a wheel. What proof do you have that that is the case?

But did they get marginally better, massively better, or not a noticeable difference?

I don't see how a couple of points of anecdotal evidence is going to outweigh tens of thousands. A database of users of various skill levels is exactly what you want no? One person with one skill level is only going to give you the results that apply to them and their skill level and that can't be generalized to the whole of the user database.

They are not using both inputs as to offer that data though. We can go on with this but it is obvious that we are both set on our own idea of this topic.

 

[tarnheld]

What was the question again?

Am i quicker when i use a wheel instead of a DS3?

or

Are wheel users quicker than DS3 users?

or

Is DS3 quicker hitting my TV screen or wheel, when thrown in anger?

OP isn't very clear about this. Better get this straight now, before discussing different questions.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But did they get marginally better, massively better, or not a noticeable difference?

You conveniently sidestepped the question so I'll ask it again. Do you have any proof that almost all/many/most of the world's best players have switched to a wheel?

They are not using both inputs as to offer that data though. We can go on with this but it is obvious that we are both set on our own idea of this topic

Again, the results of a single test subject or few, would not necessarily be applicable to the majority of users. You'd need a fairly large, completely random sample of all skill levels, that are equally comfortable with a wheel and a DS3, to generate results applicable to the general population. Hand picking a few highly skilled aliens won't generate results applicable to the vast majority of casual players.

 

[DaBomm4]

We can go on with this but it is obvious that we are both set on our own idea of this topic.

We are both not changing from our opinions.

single test subject

Also, I keep saying people which does not mean a single person, but many persons...

OBVIOUSLY YOU AND I ARE NOT GOING TO GET ANYWHERE IN OUR DISCUSSION.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Driveclub dev said this :

https://twitter.com/Rushy33/status/558671020413157376

Pads are easier to use than wheels, and often faster too.

That's for Driveclub on PS4, not sure if it applies to GT6

 

[ParkerMO125]

This question is silly.

You would need a robot to perfectly perform the inputs around a given car/track combo with a ds3 and then wheel lol

Anything else, is simply indivual results due to skill levels on each method. Sure majority of the fastest GT'ers out there use a wheel(or atleast those who participate on seasonals ect), but that doesn't mean a wheel is faster than a ds3.

 

[TJC_69]

Having both a DFGT and good at using the DS3 my opinion is yes the wheel is faster .

Approximately why this is the case is very simple to explain . The wheel gives you force feedback on the edge of adhesion , the DS3 doesn't and can't simulate that " feel " of being on the edge of the friction circle . Your only clues on a DS3 being the tyre squeal noise " Over the edge " and visually as the car under / oversteers / moves around etc .

Put simply -

On a wheel you can feel through your
hands where the limit is .

On a pad you see it and react to it .

Kinda obvious a wheel would be faster in this sense .

 

[Ed_Night]

The question was: "Is the ds3 faster than a wheel?".
And the only true answer is: NO!

Some other people try to answer the question: "Is a wheel faster than the ds3?", but that wasn't asked.

 

[tarnheld]

And the only true answer is: NO!

Huh, wait...

You are faster than me.
You are using a DS3. I use a wheel.
Therefore DS3 is faster than wheel.

Ha, got you! Or not?

 

[kilesa4568]

Back when I used a wheel, the most noticeable thing that improved my lap times and consistency was having a pedal for the accelerator and a progressive brake. Controlling those with the triggers, especially with high powered cars has been a nightmare for me. Half the time I make a mistake, the lack of accelerator and brake control always makes things 10 times worse as I battle the steering with the stick.

The people at the top of the leader boards who've worked out the travel and force of them amazes me. Half an inch of travel isn't much to work with.👍

It's a shame they don't do pedals you can use with a controller. My consistency would go back up when I'm pushing it, get a bit more rhythm going and hopefully, better times. They don't make them though. I'm just dreaming.