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Ofcourse it did. But the average difference isn't the same thing as the actual difference. And the average difference won't tell us how much faster a wheel is.
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Ofcourse it did. But the average difference isn't the same thing as the actual difference. And the average difference won't tell us how much faster a wheel is.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a much better wheel than the T300 in that price range. Not quite as strong as a T500, but if you don't want limb tearing FFB (which doesn't make you any faster of course), the T300 is an exceptional wheel.I wonder what the best wheel for GT7 will be. I don't want to buy a T300 just in case something better comes along.
I stated a few tenths for a normal track. Not the Nurburgring. I believe it depends on the car mostly. But it's a few tenths on a normal track. The majority of people that CAN place well in TT's end up getting wheels. I got a wheel. Doodle got a wheel loydeselite got a wheel. Didn't tigney start on a pad also? There isn't much of a chance for pads to show well in time trials. Especially considering the general opinion of gt6.
The only solution would be to have people who have wheels and were consistent on DS3 drive the same lap and compare times, and funnily enough, I have a G27 but I prefer the DS3 most of the time.I'm glad to see that there are many people with the same feelings I have. The problem is that when you are talking about the elite of the elite, people who drive NOTHING but controllers and play all the time, versus people who drive NOTHING but wheels and play all the time, and they are only 2 or 3 tenths off. Start adding that up over multiple laps. It's seconds of difference. 2 or 3 tenths is 2 or 3 car lengths in a drag race. Losing is still losing.
But, the vast majority of players are not hardcore like you speak of. So the average is the standard by which you judge the results.
DS3 users are at a distinct disadvantage, by like I said, 5 seconds. You take the AVERAGE player on a DS3 versus and AVERAGE player on a wheel, and it will be close to 5 seconds. You take a once in a while player versus a once in a while player and it probably is 10 or 15 seconds or more.
Tell you what, go put a DS3 in place of your controls in a real car and see how well you drive. Then put the wheel and pedals back in. It will be a helluva lot more than 5 friggin seconds!
I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, and always on a controller. The wheel always has the advantage due to range of motion in steering and the ability to use hands AND feet to control all the inputs necessary. The wheel always wins.
I'm glad to see that there are many people with the same feelings I have. The problem is that when you are talking about the elite of the elite, people who drive NOTHING but controllers and play all the time, versus people who drive NOTHING but wheels and play all the time, and they are only 2 or 3 tenths off. Start adding that up over multiple laps. It's seconds of difference. 2 or 3 tenths is 2 or 3 car lengths in a drag race. Losing is still losing.
But, the vast majority of players are not hardcore like you speak of. So the average is the standard by which you judge the results.
DS3 users are at a distinct disadvantage, by like I said, 5 seconds. You take the AVERAGE player on a DS3 versus and AVERAGE player on a wheel, and it will be close to 5 seconds. You take a once in a while player versus a once in a while player and it probably is 10 or 15 seconds or more.
Tell you what, go put a DS3 in place of your controls in a real car and see how well you drive. Then put the wheel and pedals back in. It will be a helluva lot more than 5 friggin seconds!
I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, and always on a controller. The wheel always has the advantage due to range of motion in steering and the ability to use hands AND feet to control all the inputs necessary. The wheel always wins.
Yea... I disagree with almost all of that. What I really find just completely wrong is.... "the vast majority of players are not hard core, so the average is the standard by which you judge your results"I'm glad to see that there are many people with the same feelings I have. The problem is that when you are talking about the elite of the elite, people who drive NOTHING but controllers and play all the time, versus people who drive NOTHING but wheels and play all the time, and they are only 2 or 3 tenths off. Start adding that up over multiple laps. It's seconds of difference. 2 or 3 tenths is 2 or 3 car lengths in a drag race. Losing is still losing.
But, the vast majority of players are not hardcore like you speak of. So the average is the standard by which you judge the results.
DS3 users are at a distinct disadvantage, by like I said, 5 seconds. You take the AVERAGE player on a DS3 versus and AVERAGE player on a wheel, and it will be close to 5 seconds. You take a once in a while player versus a once in a while player and it probably is 10 or 15 seconds or more.
Tell you what, go put a DS3 in place of your controls in a real car and see how well you drive. Then put the wheel and pedals back in. It will be a helluva lot more than 5 friggin seconds!
I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, and always on a controller. The wheel always has the advantage due to range of motion in steering and the ability to use hands AND feet to control all the inputs necessary. The wheel always wins.
Not a very relevant situation. The vibration function of a DS3 is nowhere near as violent as the shakes and vibrations of a real car. The small input range of the stick and trigger buttons would be severely affected by that, while they are not when you are sitting in your chair in front of a TV.Tell you what, go put a DS3 in place of your controls in a real car and see how well you drive. Then put the wheel and pedals back in. It will be a helluva lot more than 5 friggin seconds!
Assuming all that you said is true for a moment, it still doesn't change the fact that the average player does not care what the DS3 vs. wheel difference is amongst the elite players, he cares what the difference is to him. When I go out and spend $150 to buy a graphite hockey stick to play Saturday night pickup hockey I care about what the stick does for me on Saturday night, not if it's 1 mph faster or slower in a slapshot contest of elite NHL players. It has to work for me and my skillset and my limitations.Yea... I disagree with almost all of that. What I really find just completely wrong is.... "the vast majority of players are not hard core, so the average is the standard by which you judge your results"
If the question is "how much faster is the wheel compared to the DS3", the average that you speak of won't answer that at all. Now if you took the most capable driver on the wheel AND pad and averaged his splits from multiple track/car combo's that would be good.
Your method would not give us that answer, no matter what.
And @DaBomm4 I agree with your post above mine, as long as they are the best of the best players. To eliminate as much error as possible.
The problem still exists that we are trying to compare different users using different input devices, if a DS3 user is thinking about getting a wheel, he would probably want to know how much improvement other players had by switching. So one player, 2 best laps or average of maybe 10 laps each. I would offer to provide said data but I do not feel I am a consistent enough driver.Assuming all that you said is true for a moment, it still doesn't change the fact that the average player does not care what the DS3 vs. wheel difference is amongst the elite players, he cares what the difference is to him. When I go out and spend $150 to buy a graphite hockey stick to play Saturday night pickup hockey I care about what the stick does for me on Saturday night, not if it's 1 mph faster or slower in a slapshot contest of elite NHL players. It has to work for me and my skillset and my limitations.
He wants to know what improvement he is likely to get as an average player yes. IMO no testing is needed. It's perfectly clear that a wheel is faster, and if I can get an edge up on my competition I'm going to take it. The added enjoyment to the game with a wheel is the real reward of investing in a new peripheral. If you an afford it, and have a place to use it, a good quality wheel, DFGT and up, will add the most enjoyment to racing games you will ever experience. Of course unless it's a TM product it won't work on the PS4 but that's a whole other thread.The problem still exists that we are trying to compare different users using different input devices, if a DS3 user is thinking about getting a wheel, he would probably want to know how much improvement other players had by switching. So one player, 2 best laps or average of maybe 10 laps each. I would offer to provide said data but I do not feel I am a consistent enough driver.
Not everyone gets the same experience, I have used both my G27 and DS3 enough that I feel comfortable in saying that I personally am not faster with the G27. Yes the wheels have an advantage because you can be more precise in every input you make, but each user is different.It's perfectly clear that a wheel is faster,
Each user is different which is why you don't rely on anecdotal evidence to draw conclusions. Which is also why I have so often quoted from a database of millions of pieces of information rather than relying on opinions. The evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of wheels being the far better input device for thousands upon thousands of players. Some of you guys want to have your cake and eat it too so you scour the database of millions of pieces of data looking for one or a handful that prove your case, rather than looking at the overwhelming evidence in favour of wheel superiority.Not everyone gets the same experience, I have used both my G27 and DS3 enough that I feel comfortable in saying that I personally am not faster with the G27. Yes the wheels have an advantage because you can be more precise in every input you make, but each user is different.
All this proves is that most people who are fast are using a wheel.Each user is different which is why you don't rely on anecdotal evidence to draw conclusions. Which is also why I have so often quoted from a database of millions of pieces of information rather than relying on opinions. The evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of wheels being the far better input device for thousands upon thousands of players. Some of you guys want to have your cake and eat it too so you scour the database of millions of pieces of data looking for one or a handful that prove your case, rather than looking at the overwhelming evidence in favour of wheel superiority.
It doesn't show if there is a difference in skill level from the DS3 user and the wheel user. That is why having people who have used both and are consistent on both giving test information would be more reliable than a database of users all varying in skill level, not using both inputs.The majority of people that CAN place well in TT's end up getting wheels.
That's the point isn't it? The common assumption is that almost everyone in the world who is fast went out and bought a wheel. What proof do you have that that is the case?All this proves is that most people who are fast are using a wheel.
I don't see how a couple of points of anecdotal evidence is going to outweigh tens of thousands. A database of users of various skill levels is exactly what you want no? One person with one skill level is only going to give you the results that apply to them and their skill level and that can't be generalized to the whole of the user database.It doesn't show if there is a difference in skill level from the DS3 user and the wheel user. That is why having people who have used both and are consistent on both giving test information would be more reliable than a database of users all varying in skill level, not using both inputs.
But did they get marginally better, massively better, or not a noticeable difference?That's the point isn't it? The common assumption is that almost everyone in the world who is fast went out and bought a wheel. What proof do you have that that is the case?
They are not using both inputs as to offer that data though. We can go on with this but it is obvious that we are both set on our own idea of this topic.I don't see how a couple of points of anecdotal evidence is going to outweigh tens of thousands. A database of users of various skill levels is exactly what you want no? One person with one skill level is only going to give you the results that apply to them and their skill level and that can't be generalized to the whole of the user database.
You conveniently sidestepped the question so I'll ask it again. Do you have any proof that almost all/many/most of the world's best players have switched to a wheel?But did they get marginally better, massively better, or not a noticeable difference?
Again, the results of a single test subject or few, would not necessarily be applicable to the majority of users. You'd need a fairly large, completely random sample of all skill levels, that are equally comfortable with a wheel and a DS3, to generate results applicable to the general population. Hand picking a few highly skilled aliens won't generate results applicable to the vast majority of casual players.They are not using both inputs as to offer that data though. We can go on with this but it is obvious that we are both set on our own idea of this topic
We are both not changing from our opinions.We can go on with this but it is obvious that we are both set on our own idea of this topic.
Also, I keep saying people which does not mean a single person, but many persons...single test subject
Pads are easier to use than wheels, and often faster too.
And the only true answer is: NO!