Conundrum - lead to cost analysis

Discussion in 'Project CARS 1' started by Lawndart, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    Determined that my PSU (CX500) wasn't pumping out enough juice for my build goals and will be sending it back and getting a Rosewill 650W instead.

    I'm thinking that a GTX 760 is the target card, especially for my budget. Will try to get a i5-4590 for my CPU
     
  2. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    If you can afford it, I'd look at spending an extra $130 on the GTX970. It benchmarks about 80% higher than the 760. You can always upgrade later but with that CPU and card, the card will definitely be your bottleneck.
     
  3. CC570

    CC570

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    Not sure of the specs on the GTX 760 vs the GTX 970. If you are only pushing a single 1080 monitor the 760 is plenty. ( I have a GTX 660 and run AC on mostly full settings and am very content.)
    Whatever you purchase, if you aren't pushing its limits you've spent more money than you needed to.
    Tom's hardware is a good resource for figuring out what best suits your needs.
     
  4. DrJustice

    DrJustice

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    ^ Useful site for quickly comparing GPUs: gpuboss.com

    GeForce GTX 970 vs 760

    That's 80% more performance for 25% more money. That very good value - an entirely new price/performance level actually...
     
  5. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    If I'm gonna upgrade the card, it'll be to a GTX 770, or I'll wait and get a 970 and just use the integrated graphics or my poor-man's GT 610 in the meantime.

    Given that it'll be a month or two before I make the purchase, I may end up with a 970, since 770's are now being phased out. If I see either one of them up for a screaming deal, then that could change things (I'm looking at you Cyber Monday)
     
  6. NLxAROSA

    NLxAROSA Premium

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    I just built my new PC with the MSI GTX970 Gaming 4G. It's an absolute beast for the price and you will run pCARS at a lovely detail, no problem. Would definitely advise to go with a GTX970 if you have the budget.
     
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  7. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    I'm going to be a very, very poor man with a nice computer thanks to you lot.
     
  8. NLxAROSA

    NLxAROSA Premium

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    Join the club. :D :cheers:
     
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  9. Dyemonic

    Dyemonic

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    Finally looking at buying a computer thanks to this game. Any thoughts on this? I'm trying to keep my budget below $1,200USD with a monitor.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dxHKkL
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2014
  10. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    Tell us more about what you're going to be doing with this build aside from playing pCARS. Because if you're going to spend $1200 on a machine, you should be doing more than just playing pCARS.

    Also, take a look at this to get an idea about where you should be spending your money http://www.logicalincrements.com/ I'd say that the case is always flexible no matter what you're putting in it, but with a case like that, especially if you're going to be overclocking that 4690K, you're going to want to invest in one or two more case fans to get hot air out of there.

    Also, you'll want to take a look at the bottom of your build page, as there's three cautions you should pay attention to. The case you've selected won't be able to make use of your MOBO's USB 3.0 capability, the MOBO will have to have an update to operate with the 4690K (look for a Z97 MOBO instead), and that GPU is going to render some of your case's drive bays un-useable, since it's too long (but as long as you don't need those extra drive bays, you should be fine).

    Also, plan on buying a HDD in the future, since you'll run out of space on your SSD fairly quickly. And I don't think the sound card should be a necessary purchase, save your money and invest it in your GPU, and then pick up a soundcard later, it'll be easy enough to install another time.

    Lastly, it might be better to get an over-clocked i3 (or even Pentium), and then pair it with a more powerful GPU, since that 760 is going to bottleneck your i5-4690K even without it being overclocked.

    If you don't plan on overclocking, then save money and get a non-K processor, and an H-model MOBO (instead of a Z-model). All money saved should be re-invested into the GPU.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
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  11. NLxAROSA

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    Snaeper has some great advice here. Do you really want to overclock? If not, an i5-4460 would be a great alternative, and you can stay with the stock Intel cooler. This will drop the price on your system and along with ditching the sound card should result in another 100,- to spend elsewhere (GPU).

    If you go for a Haswell refresh, also make sure the motherboard supports it or get the BIOS upgraded. If you get a Z97, it will support it for sure, since those were introduced along with the Haswell refresh. But those are a bit more expensive... Might be worth inquiring with the supplier about the BIOS version.

    Last but not least, spend a few dollars for 1 or 2 extra 120mm fans, the case you picked supports 7 (!) of them. :)
     
  12. rams1de

    rams1de

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    @Snaeper thanks for the link, the site is extremely informative in showing balanced systems and will help with spending money wisely.

    What would be unbelievably awesome and helpful for the PC illiterate (me) would be an indication of what the various tiers are capable of running in terms of AC graphics settings on various screen set ups, eg 720p, 1080p, triple screen, VR headset.

    For instance, (totally made up statement for illustrative purposes only)
    A 'great' system might play AC at med settings on 720p and low on 1080p
    A 'superb' system might play AC at high settings on 720p, med on 1080p, low on 3x 720p
    ... and so on.

    I guess fps has to find itself in there somewhere too.

    It would answer a lot of people's questions about what their current system is capable of and help plan upgrades and evaluate practical levels of 'future proofing'.

    I'd do it myself but haven't got a clue.
     
  13. Dyemonic

    Dyemonic

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    Aside from pCARS, other games such as Skyrim, Crysis, BF, etc... I may also use some CAD software on the computer, but my laptop is good enough to handle large assemblies so I'm not too concerned with the desktop having to run that stuff.

    I actually already replaced the case which took care of those issues, but thanks for pointing that out!

    An HDD is planned for the future. I currently have an external that I can use if I can't get a drop in replacement. Otherwise I won't be too concerned peaking over 250GB for some time (not saying it's not easy to do, but I can avoid it for a good amount of time based off of the small amount of storage space I currently use).

    I'll look more into the individual parts and come up with another build later when my choices are more educated.

    In the mean time, any opinions on this monitor ($200 w/ discount). I have an obutto rig which I plan to do all my gaming on which is why I'm going for a larger monitor. The built in speakers helps reduce the cost for me until I can upgrade. The only downside I see is it's limitation to 60Hz, but I don't think that is as big of an issue as some people make it out to be. But having never done a comparison with higher frame rates (in person), I can't say for certain whether I will care.

    Thanks for the help!
     
  14. Willfred_1

    Willfred_1

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    So just a quick pointer look at the pc specs for AC unity and farcry 4 it will give you an idea of what should be your base build.
    I expect games to to start to bias pcs as the xb1 and ps4 are already limiting the games.
     
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  15. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    @Dyemonic Are you planning on overclocking?

    Because you're going to need to get a better GPU if you're going to be playing games like those, at least as long as you want the best graphics. And if you're not going to overclock, you should pick up a locked (non-K) CPU and an H97 MOBO to reduce the cost. As said above, too, you save even more by not having to invest in a CPU cooler.
     
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  16. NLxAROSA

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    If I check pcpartpicker, going for an H97, a Core i5-4440 and dropping the CPU cooler wil reduce costs by 125,-. That would mean you can replace the GPU with a 970GTX. :)
     
  17. Dyemonic

    Dyemonic

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    I see no reason for me not to overclock, but I don't have a great idea on the performance improvement I should expect for the parts I will be looking at (and that's where google will come into play). Thanks!

    I'll also see what I can do to get a 970 per the recommendations you guys are giving me. Now seeing that I can get a good monitor for $200, that gives me another ~$150 based on current prices, so that would be the simple solution right there.
     
  18. Johnnypenso

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    There wouldn't be any need to overclock with a 760 series card, the stock i5 is way more power than that card will need. I'm also in agreement about the 970. Its just too much bang for the buck to not build a system around it if you can afford it. Its like having $40K to buy a Mustang and not buying a Ferrari because it's $50K.
     
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  19. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    You'll see a much greater improvement getting a basic i5 4460/4590/4690 (Shouldn't spend more than $200) and a GTX 970, than you will over-clocking an i5 and getting a 760.
     
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  20. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    Next round of parts are ordered.

    Still holding off on the two most critical components (CPU/GPU) until Cyber Monday, but I have an HX650 Corsair and Gigabyte MOBO on the way, as well as a few more 140mm case fans. Once those arrive, all I'll realistically need is the CPU and then I can get the thing operational and just use the internal GPU until I can get an aftermarket piece.

    Finally unboxed the case today. Will have to find a new place to put it since it no longer fits where my old CPU did.

    Or make a new desk.

    Oh, and now I have a spare 500W CX power supply, since the shipping was so high to return it, I decided to just get the rebate. ($12+ to ship for return and refund or get the rebate and a $25 PSU***). The next build has already begun!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
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  21. GamingPete

    GamingPete

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    Iam in the same boat ...
    i owned playstation 1 to 3 but for the first time ever their decision-making has put me really off ... not only the wheel thing but several other points aswell.

    Since my pc was already pretty good except for a mediocre graphics card i just went out and got myself a Gigabyte G1 GTX 970 instead of a PS4.

    And iam already happy with it.
    The only thing i miss is gran turismo.
    But i dont mind ... i might get weak if gt7 is really good ... and i mean really really really good. I expect everything a pc can do such as liverie editor etc etc ... if not it might be the very firat GT i will pass on ... i had every gt game even the concept ones .
     
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  22. Dyemonic

    Dyemonic

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    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/yJjP99

    Updated with feedback and some additional research. I added the 970, kept the CPU the same (for the performance level I'm trying to get I see this as a commonly used model, and it will come in handy with some CPU intensive programs I may be running), updated the mobo to get rid of any potential conflict with the CPU, etc... The power supply is a bit overkill for the system, but I figured it would be an investment. The overall cost is going a bit over what I originally wanted to, but I'm hoping to get some decent deals within the next week.

    Any additional opinions? Will the CPU cooler be necessary (is overclocking this going to be necessary or will it not be a limiting factor)? Should 2 additional case fans be enough being that the case already comes with 2 fans (120 and 140mm)?

    Thanks for the help!
     
  23. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    I'm only going to ask one question for the third time:

    Are you going to overclock this system?

    Please answer.

    EDIT: After that, I'll give you my final critique's on an otherwise fairly solid build.
     
  24. Dyemonic

    Dyemonic

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    As I stated two times already (not trying to be an asshole), I am unaware of the exact benefits I'll see from overclocking and was looking for some input on this subject. I have investigated it and I get typical internet answers of yes and no (yet I'm asking more internet folk :p). Looking at the benchmarks of overclocking CPUs, it often shows small performance gains from increasing the speed by 50%+. I have no doubt in me that overclocking is just the cool thing to do, which is why people do it...but the small price increase to a k CPU (and in the case that I'm looking at, the 4690k looks to be a great deal for its performance) makes me reluctant to get it just to have the ability to overclock if I determine I want to.

    So if you want a solid answer, I will say yes. But I would appreciate feedback on this topic from experience. Again, thanks for the help, I don't mean to anger you with my ignorance.
     
  25. NLxAROSA

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    In my own personal experience, overclocking is not so helpful in games as virtually none are CPU-bound to begin with if you are using a single GPU. If you're into synthetic benchmarks or want to run SLI it's a different matter.

    Which is why I went with a non-K CPU and stock cooler and spent money instead on an extra 8GB of RAM (making 16GB in total) and a 2TB hard drive. But again, my experience, your mileage may vary.

    That said, the essential parts of your system look great, the rest is personal preference and tweaking. :tup:
     
  26. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    That's alright, your previous answers have simply not been clear.

    Overclocking, historically, was a good option to get more performance out of a CPU. However, the law of diminishing returns has seen less and less of an increase from overclocking as base CPU's have become more and more powerful.

    If you have never built a computer before, and if you have never overclocked before (or if you dont know anyone that has overclocked before) then I do not recommend overclocking as one of two things are going to happen:

    1. You don't overclock enough, and end up under-utilizing your equipment's overclocking potential.

    2. You overclock improperly and wind up damaging or increasing the wear on your components.

    If you have to ask about the potential benefits of overclocking, then it might not be for you. If this is your first time putting together a PC, then just focus on non-overclocking components (thus, saving money), and make sure your first PC just works. Then, someday down the road, if you build another PC, take a shot at over-clocking (although by then it likely wont matter).

    On top of that, if you're going to over-clock, try it first on something cheap like a Pentium (since you'll see better gains over the base performance, as well), that way if you make a mistake and fry your CPU, you're only out $60- $70, rather than $220+.

    If you plan on having this computer for awhile (and not upgrading it every year) then I also recommend not over-clocking. Even if it's done properly, with good pieces and cooling, it's still likely to reduce the life** on your components.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
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  27. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    You mean "reduce the life" or maybe "increase the wear"?
     
  28. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    [​IMG]

    And now for my promised review on your build:

    CPU/MOBO/CPU Cooler:

    If you plan on overclocking, these are excellent selections. The 212 EVO is the king in performance to budget ratio's and is a good choice. I have no doubt that the CPU paired with the GTX 970 will give excellent performance and the mother board is up to date and will pair with your CPU as well.

    That being said, I recommend going non-k 4590/4690 and getting an H97 motherboard and skip the aftermarket cooler altogether and save the money with negligible performance loss. Especially if this is your first build.

    SSD/HDD:
    The PNY is cheap for a reason, much better to spend the extra dough on getting a SanDisk UltraPlus or Crucial MX100, which are proven reliable, recommended SSD's.

    I would also recommend getting a traditional HDD so you don't have to immediately worry about storage so quickly.

    RAM/GPU: Both solid choices.

    CASE: Another good choice, especially for the money.

    PSU: While Corsair is a good company with a good reputation (and warranty), the CX power supply is an entry level piece. While I don't think you should experience an issue, especially since it's well over the amount of power your system will need, if you can, pick up an HX Corsair, SeaSonic M12II, or RoseWill CAPSTONE model (Especially if they're the same price or near to). The last thing you want is a cheap power supply frying very expensive components.

    With that being said, here's a build taking most of your selections and giving you an idea of what your system will look like without the overclocking hardware:

    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/nkww8d

    CPU:

    Unless you plan on playing Crysis or Battlefield 4 (while expecting high frame rates and resolutions) or if you're doing a lot of video editing and photoshop at the same time, you won't notice the different between the 4590 and an over-clocked 4690K.

    SSD/HDD:

    Sure, you're not getting over 200GB's on your SSD, but you're going to get an SSD that will boot up every time and will reliably store your OS (which is what you should be using your SSD for if you have one). If you're still stuck on that PNY, get it as a game-storage SSD only. That way if it burns out on you after 6 months (which apparently happens quite a bit), you only lose your games, and not your whole OS.

    The 1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue Hard drive is a reliable workhorse that will store everything else you'll be putting on this computer.

    PSU:

    I used a parametric filter for your PSU, giving you the option of several of the best and most recommended models on the market (that way you can see the cheapest at the time). I advise investing in one of those specific models, especially if they're 80+ Gold efficient.

    (forgot to add the case fans, make sure you still get those for intake on your case)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
  29. Myles Prower

    Myles Prower

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    Remember my budget 720p build? Things escalated quickly and I ended up getting one of these :D
    [​IMG]
     
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  30. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    Haha...welcome to Club 970:cheers: