"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

[ColinNZ]

'Nother nubie question. Is there a schedule or list of upcoming daily races or do we just have wait and see what they are when they come up. Is there a specific time that they switch to the next days races? I spent some time the other day driving qualifying laps and getting familiar with the track only to have the daily race switch to the next day's track before I entered the race.

There is no schedule, it just changes at the same time every day.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I agree there are many variables dictating the aproach to a corner and they differ depending on those variables. But there is no part of any circuit where going slow wil benefit you. Its either fast in fast out or fast in faster out.

"Slow in" doesn't mean you have to get out and push.
It simply means going slightly slower and sacrificing a tenth or 2 on entry, to find a faster exit speed and then reap the benefits by ending up a tenth or 2 faster at the same comparative point further up the track.

Which was why I disagreed with you statement.
Because slow in fast out can be the "fastest way" on certain areas of many tracks.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Slow in fast out has never been the fastest way anyway,

Slow in" doesn't mean you have to get out and push.
It simply means going slightly slower and sacrificing a tenth or 2 on entry, to find a faster exit speed and then reap the benefits by ending up a tenth or 2 faster at the same comparative point further up the track.

Which was why I disagreed with you statement.
Because slow in fast out can be the "fastest way" on certain areas of many tracks.

Tassie explained it very well.

Now the tire physics in GTS with its what seems to be 'simplified" tire physics may not accurately reflect the increased tire life of being smoother in corner entry and through the corner but not only can you get a better line and drive out in some cases but extend grip life as well.

My experience is on two wheels but you approach a corner entirely different on a 600cc machine than a 1000cc machine. The 600cc generally is lighter smaller and higher revving so you keep corner speed as high as possible to cater to its strengths.

1000cc You enter the corner with an approach that allows you to get the bike off the edge of the tire as soon as possible to be able to use the horsepower and torque of the bike to get the quickest strongest drive out of the corner as possible.

Works the same with cars, heavy with a lot of torque enter the corner to get straightened up as soon as possible to let the motor work for you on the drive out. Smaller lighter car keep the revves up and momentum high to keep it wound up.

Same goal just different approach, nobody is talking about parking the car on corner entrance.

 

[Shottah072]

"Slow in" doesn't mean you have to get out and push.
It simply means going slightly slower and sacrificing a tenth or 2 on entry, to find a faster exit speed and then reap the benefits by ending up a tenth or 2 faster at the same comparative point further up the track.

Which was why I disagreed with you statement.
Because slow in fast out can be the "fastest way" on certain areas of many tracks.

Going slightly slower means your loosing time. With proper technique on entry you dont need to lose those tenths.

https://www.google.nl/amp/s/jalopnik.com/5937814/why-the-slow-in-fast-out-technique-is-a-myth/amp

https://speedsecrets.com/driving-tips/when-slow-in-fast-out-is-holding-you-back/

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Going slightly slower means your loosing time. With proper technique on entry you dont need to lose those tenths.

https://www.google.nl/amp/s/jalopnik.com/5937814/why-the-slow-in-fast-out-technique-is-a-myth/amp

https://speedsecrets.com/driving-tips/when-slow-in-fast-out-is-holding-you-back/

If you say so mate.

 

[Shottah072]

If you say so mate.

I do say so mate. I get what your saying. Some corners you want to set yourself up for the best straightline speed. But even in those corners you dont want to sacrifice your entry speed much to do so, and thats what the saying implies and why its wrong, well maybe not wrong, just not the fastest.

Fast in fast out is fastest because even if you can accelerate slightly later on exit then you would with slow in fast out you will be accelerating from a higher speed wich you carry into an trough the corner. This causes the loss at exit to be marginal but the gains on entry and mid corner will win you tenths in a lap.

I.e. Fast in fast out gains 0.100 on entry and only loses 0.050 om exit. Net win of a 0.050 per corner. A small gain but over a lap it adds up to a couple tenths.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Going slightly slower means your loosing time. With proper technique on entry you dont need to lose those tenths.

Perhaps the difference is what one individual considers fast or slow and what someone else may have a completely different assessment of those same terms.

There was an interview with a team manager some years back about 7 time AMA Superbike champion Matt Mladin and the manager said one of the things that Mladin so good at was that without instruments he could judge the difference in Speed anywhere on the track up to about 170 miles per hour within about a maximum of 2 mph difference just by feel so his consistency was unbelievable almost.

You take the top racing guys and try to imitate their driving styles without their ability to process all the information they are taking in to race the way they do then you very well may be disappointed in the results.

There are reasons their are Vettles, Hamiltons, Rossi's and Mladins and their are many pro's that have tried to wear the same crowns and perform at the same levels that fail year after year, race after race. Plenty of new young hotshots that try as well and every now and then you will find that special one and the changing of the guard will occur.

But linking to an article that is talking about the driving styles of the fastest guys in the world does not mean the average guy will pull off that same feat. All those articles are are someones opinion that they have written down.

Does not mean everyone will be a faster driver trying to drive like Hamilton. Many will just end up off the track or in the wall.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I do say so mate. I get what your saying. Some corners you want to set yourself up for the best straightline speed. But even in those corners you dont want to sacrifice your entry speed much to do so, and thats what the saying implies and why its wrong, well maybe not wrong, just not the fastest.

Fast in fast out is fastest because even if you can accelerate slightly later on exit then you would with slow in fast out you will be accelerating from a higher speed wich you carry into an trough the corner. This causes the loss at exit to be marginal but the gains on entry and mid corner will win you tenths in a lap.

I.e. Fast in fast out gains 0.100 on entry and only loses 0.050 om exit. Net win of a 0.050 per corner. A small gain but over a lap it adds up to a couple tenths.

Why?
This doesn't need to be the case at all.
You are making an assumption of having a higher apex speed.
Apex speed is apex speed, and both techniques mean you can still hit that same apex speed.

A quick 3 minute video for you.



Charging every corner isn't the fastest way around every track.

 

[Shottah072]

Perhaps the difference is what one individual considers fast or slow and what someone else may have a completely different assessment of those same terms.

There was an interview with a team manager some years back about 7 time AMA Superbike champion Matt Mladin and the manager said one of the things that Mladin so good at was that without instruments he could judge the difference in Speed anywhere on the track up to about 170 miles per hour within about a maximum of 2 mph difference just by feel so his consistency was unbelievable almost.

You take the top racing guys and try to imitate their driving styles without their ability to process all the information they are taking in to race the way they do then you very well may be disappointed in the results.

There are reasons their are Vettles, Hamiltons, Rossi's and Mladins and their are many pro's that have tried to wear the same crowns and perform at the same levels that fail year after year, race after race. Plenty of new young hotshots that try as well and every now and then you will find that special one and the changing of the guard will occur.

But linking to an article that is talking about the driving styles of the fastest guys in the world does not mean the average guy will pull off that same feat. All those articles are are someones opinion that they have written down.

Does not mean everyone will be a faster driver trying to drive like Hamilton. Many will just end up off the track or in the wall.

Why?
This doesn't need to be the case at all.
You are making an assumption of having a higher apex speed.
Apex speed is apex speed, and both techniques mean you can still hit that same apex speed.

A quick 3 minute video for you.



Charging every corner isn't the fastest way around every track.

I dont get why you dont understand. I am not saying to charge every corner cause then you will be like the guy from your vid going fast in slow out. Maybe @VFOURMAX1 is right and were both interpreting things different.

The fastest way around track is to be as fast as possible trough all fases of a corner. The slow in fast out technique focuses on being as fast as possible on exit, its a great technique for beginners but advanced drivers should focus on entry and apex as well wich are harder to master. Of course there are many corners where exit speed is most important but that doesnt mean you need to go slower then possible just to be sure you will get that good exit. It just means you need to take a different line and aproach for these corners while still carrying max speed trough all phases of the corner.

You go in as fast as possible and get out as fast as possible. If the corner leads up to a straight you go in as fast as possible to still get out as fast possible. But you dont go slower in just to get out fast.

Whenever you go slow in fast out or like the guy from you vid fast in slow out you are loosing time.

 

[ShiftingGears]

The fastest way around track is to be as fast as possible trough all fases of a corner. The slow in fast out technique focuses on being as fast as possible on exit, its a great technique for beginners but advanced drivers should focus on entry and apex as well wich are harder to master. Of course there are many corners where exit speed is most important but that doesnt mean you need to go slower then possible just to be sure you will get that good exit. It just means you need to take a different line and aproach for these corners while still carrying max speed trough all phases of the corner.

You go in as fast as possible and get out as fast as possible. If the corner leads up to a straight you go in as fast as possible to still get out as fast possible. But you dont go slower in just to get out fast.

Whenever you go slow in fast out or like the guy from you vid fast in slow out you are loosing time.

The different line and approach for the corners you highlighted is exactly what the concept of slow in, fast out is. Assuming the corner isn't flat out, and the driver is using 100% of available grip all the time, That faster exit speed will come at the expense of being faster in some other part of the corner.

I don't think anyone here is saying that anyone should go slow for the sake of it.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I dont get why you dont understand. I am not saying to charge every corner cause then you will be like the guy from your vid going fast in slow out. Maybe @VFOURMAX1 is right and were both interpreting things different.

The fastest way around track is to be as fast as possible trough all fases of a corner. The slow in fast out technique focuses on being as fast as possible on exit, its a great technique for beginners but advanced drivers should focus on entry and apex as well wich are harder to master. Of course there are many corners where exit speed is most important but that doesnt mean you need to go slower then possible just to be sure you will get that good exit. It just means you need to take a different line and aproach for these corners while still carrying max speed trough all phases of the corner.

You go in as fast as possible and get out as fast as possible. If the corner leads up to a straight you go in as fast as possible to still get out as fast possible. But you dont go slower in just to get out fast.

Whenever you go slow in fast out or like the guy from you vid fast in slow out you are loosing time.

I don't get why you don't understand.
Although I suspect you do, you are just being stubborn.

The guy in the video is no noob driver.
He is 0.4 off the time of the current series champion, so he is doing most things right.
He calls it "fast in slow out" because it is a play on words.
But it shows exactly what you are advocating.
And his conclusion is that entering every corner as fast as you can isn't necessarily the best approach, as shown by the data.

When Lewis Hamilton in the Nurb GP clip says as he approaches the Schumacher esses, "This one I lift early, then get back to power on early so I get a better exit", he is talking slow in fast out.
He is saying he could enter the first corner faster, but choses not to.

It's a common driving technique.
Something you will hear many drivers refer to in one form or another all the time.

Not simply something for the kiddies as you continually assert.

 

[JacksHerer]

You are both right but talking from different perspectives, I play video driving games for fun over speed, I like to be spanking the car...

 

[Tassie_tiger]

You are both right but talking from different perspectives, I play video driving games for fun over speed, I like to be spanking the car...

Yeh, you're right.

"Its either fast in fast out or fast in faster out" are clearly the only 2 options that work.
And "Slow in fast out has never been the fastest way anyway, its just a saying used to prevent beginners from overdriving on entry" is obviously the truth because no-one else in motor sport other than beginners does such a thing.

I'll attempt to walk away from this conversation for the second time.

 

[Shottah072]

Yeh, you're right.

"Its either fast in fast out or fast in faster out" are clearly the only 2 options that work.
And "Slow in fast out has never been the fastest way anyway, its just a saying used to prevent beginners from overdriving on entry" is obviously the truth because no-one else in motor sport other than beginners does such a thing.

I'll attempt to walk away from this conversation for the second time.

Lol no need to get all mad over this.

I get what your saying you are just not getting what i am trying to say.

I know many refer to it like that but i still think its wrong. I dont count setting the car up for a good exit as going slow because you still want to do that as fast as possible. I completely understand the need for it and what corners need what lines to be fast and simply charging the apex wont be fastest. You take the best line as fast as possible and if that line means to set the car up for a late apex or a good exit speed you do that as fast as possible trough all fases of the the corner. Thats what i mean with fast in fast out or fast in faster out. Even when your compromising your entry for the best exit you still want to compromise it as little as possible an be as fast as you can in doing so.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Lol no need to get all mad over this.

I get what your saying you are just not getting what i am trying to say.

I know many refer to it like that but i still think its wrong. I dont count setting the car up for a good exit as going slow because you still want to do that as fast as possible. I completely understand the need for it and what corners need what lines to be fast and simply charging the apex wont be fastest. You take the best line as fast as possible and if that line means to set the car up for a late apex or a good exit speed you do that as fast as possible trough all fases of the the corner. Thats what i mean with fast in fast out or fast in faster out. Even when your compromising your entry for the best exit you still want to compromise it as little as possible an be as fast as you can in doing so.

I'm not mad, but yes I find your approach annoying.

You refuse to accept a well known driving technique, and choose to replace it with your own made up terms, suggesting the former doesn't work and yours does.
And then continue to say repeatedly that the former is only for beginners.

You began this by suggesting someone was doing it wrong.
And continue to assert so regardless.

So yes, it's annoying when someone can't simply say that their initial response was a bit short sighted.

I'll leave it to you to have the final remark.

 

[BD Ford]

I didn't realise that the rooms are "regional" ? I'm only seeing people from my area (Asia Pacific) so I'm up against other Aussies, and people from Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea usually. Not a bad bunch in the SR B races, a few quick guys, a lot of enthusiastic but not talented guys in mid pack, and a few beginners (hey we all have to start somewhere)
Been doing the one make races in Lancers, first at Brands then at Interlagos, the latter being more fun than I realised. I watched a few races then practiced offline in the same car, soon realised I was quicker then most so qualified 2nd.
Chased some fast Aussie guy off the line, and first corner carnage behind us meant we had a gap back to third, but a late corner clipped penalty and a slight off saw me drop to third behind some other fast finishing Aussie. Got me around the outside of the second parabolica, while I was rejoining, but made a clean pass so more power to him. I don't know where he came from, must have survived the first corner carnage, or perhaps caused it, who knows?

I wonder if we'll get other cars eventually other than the Mitsubishi Lancers? Today's one make is at Kyoto short track. Let the carnage commence!
BF

 

[FKAustria1911]

Is there a specific time that they switch to the next days races?

The time it switches at least in the Europe region is 08:00 CET, i.e. you still got the "old" races A (07:40), B (07:40), and C (07:30) and then the new ones at 08:05 (A), 08:00 (B) and 08:00 (C). So this would be 2:00 AM US Eastern time zone.

 

[ColinNZ]

That i3 race is very strange indeed. I don't think I'll ever get used to this whole electric car thing. Still, there's no gear changes, so I've been able to put together some very competitive laps.

 

[nord_clane]

You are both right but talking from different perspectives, I play video driving games for fun over speed, I like to be spanking the car...

Oh that's so right what Stewart is saying there

In the end, you really have to be gentle to your car and be smooth with everything youdo while beeing on the physical edge. You can't just push hard. This will upset the car, the balance will be destroyed and there is no way you can reach the limit. It maybe would feel like driving on the limit but it isn't.

I was driving kart semi-professional until 2 years ago and you could always see the fastest guys were also the smoothest. Too much people don't know that and are just pushing like hell, beeing rough with their inputs, too fast on entry and so on.

Often, when i was just driving for fun with "regular" people, i could be some seconds per lap faster, not far away from the track record and they were still plowing into me in the braking zones. Almost like in GTS. Some people just have no feeling for driving fast it seems.

 

[TheGeologist]

Why are half the one make races with that lancer final edition '15? I feel like every other week a one make race involves that car

 

[BD Ford]

Why are half the one make races with that lancer final edition '15? I feel like every other week a one make race involves that car

Was wondering myself. I'm thinking that the one make are geared towards entry level racing offering a basic car thats fun and easy to drive. Sort of let people get used to online before they try B and C races which are usually GR3 and GR4.
Although I'm sort of getting over it, myself. It's only like what, N300 or such? Something a bit zippier would be good
BF

 

[Phoenix]

First race of the day, the Lancer race at Kyoto Driving Park - Miyabi, started in 2nd, had a few bumps back and forth with the leader, overtook first on the 2nd lap in the first corner of that lap, then he overtook me at the start of lap 3, then I overtook him again on the 4th lap in the last 180 degree corner and defended the last lap and won by 1 second.

Great feeling.

 

[FKAustria1911]

tbh the most fun I am having in the few one make races when race B is a one make race with a fast N car.
I think it would be better to have 4 daily races, a slower N car and a Gr. 3 and a Gr. 4 race like now, but additionally a faster N one make race every day (and not remove the Gr.3 / Gr. 4 race when you have the one make race B right now).

So something like this:

A: one make ~N200
B: one make ~N500
C: Gr. 3 / Gr. 4 (alternating)
D: Gr. 3 / Gr. 4 (alternating)

btw I noticed that the A race car usually changes on Monday and Friday, has it always been this way? (in the last 2-3 months at least, in the beginning everything was different with daily races not even being daily).

 

[breakbeatfreak]

Why are daily races always the same? What about Nordschleife or longer races lets say an 1 hour race?

 

[JacksHerer]

I just ran the race C interlagos and was amazed that someone pitted.

Why are daily races always the same? What about Nordschleife or longer races lets say an 1 hour race?

They would need to amend the SR point scoring first, once the field got spread out, everyone could end the race as SR:S if they get a SR+ every sector.

 

[cleanLX]

kinda scared to reopen the slow in fast out discussion, but here goes.
"slow in fast out" is not a literal term, it is a term based on relatives... it simply means, yes, you can charge the corner harder, but will compromise exit.
i think once you recognize the "slow" is not "literal", rather "relative" the saying/theory can be applied.
"slow in fast out" effectively moves your apex as well...

 

[zzz_pt]

I always use the "slow in fast out" when starting a flying lap (in F1 everyone does it). But when I'm finishing my lap, on that same corner, I won't do the same thing, as the gain in exit speed is only noticeable at the end of the straight.

I also use the slow in fast out when going behind someone. But only when there's a sufficient long straight afterwards.

Some corners are better taken slowing down on entry, ohers slowing down on exit, depending on the following section/corners.

 

[JacksHerer]

I wish I was consistent enough to be able to choose my line before it happens lol

 

[FKAustria1911]

I just wish there weren't so many people using "fast in - bump into you - slow out" on the Miyabi hairpin, this makes my blood boiling and sometimes divebomb the guy who did it hard, if I had enough of it, I will gladly take SR -10 then...

 

[cleanLX]

I wish I was consistent enough to be able to choose my line before it happens lol

I'm consistent enough, just not fast, so I on the other hand wish I was fast enough to not have the time to choose...
I can't seem to find the balance of both choosing and being fast.

I just wish there weren't so many people using "fast in - bump into you - slow out" on the Miyabi hairpin...

I find both the single late apex starting Miyabi and the double apex leaving Miyabi to be very scary places.