"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

  • Thread starter Thread starter LordDrift
  • 79,453 comments
  • 1,274,229 views
Status
Not open for further replies.
The past couple of weeks were rough ones. DFL in the last two manu races and an abysmal week at Suzuka. It's my absolute favorite track in the game, but I could not get it together in qualy or the race. Most of the time I was a backmarker and any progress I made I usually wiped out with something stupid. Just bad racecraft and I couldn't shake it. I started thinking I had been promoted to the level of my incompetence.

That attitude bled over into my first runs at Spa. As a result, my DR slide continued and I dropped to DR B and my SR was just hovering above A from dumb bumper taps trying to take positions rather than corners. While my DR slide had me in a funk, the drop in SR broke me out of it. Turns out that I'm far more accepting of being slow than not being clean. Spent Monday night working on my braking points, lines, and inputs and with these corrections had some fun and clean races focusing more on how I finished rather than where. Steadily kept finding more pace and now sitting at a 2:28:6xx and I think I have a bit more to find still. While I got back to DR A and SR 99, I'll try to remember this lesson about what attitude and focus I bring to the track. Looking forward to a lot more races this week and I hope to see y'all out there.
 
Redneckchef
Have to see if you can find Road Atlanta and land on the notorious straight there. Thanks to the Whittington Brothers!
Click to expand...

I found Road Atlanta, awesome flight from Hartsfield-Jackson following the roads. I didn't land there, actually ended up crashing at the air strip nearby, lot of things aren't flat that are supposed to be flat!

I made two reference laps for this week :lol:

Spa-Franchorchamps


Autopolis

That was hard to find. There is no way to see gps coordinates or fly to gps coordinates afaik so the only way is to start at an airport nearby (Kumamoto) and fly on compass direction while trying to follow the landscape, alt-tabbing to google maps since the in game map is useless. It didn't help that the solar panel farms I was looking for are still golf courses in the game. USA is far more detailed and up to date.

Back to the Nord later, hadn't figured out yet how to record video yet last night. Apologies for the low fps, gaming laptop :/
 
I ran the line a looong time at Spa, it’s helpful there. I haven’t run it this week with line aid, but might hit a 27 if I turn it on.
For me the key is not cornering speed per se on any track, really.
It’s almost no time to be found on on entry braking late either...in fact braking later loses me more than anything...Better to lift early and brake smoothly there’s very little time to be gained by late braking, bad habit...For me the biggest key is good line hitting apex with STEERING INPUT AT MAX AT APEX THEN GETTING TO FULL THROTTLE AND RELEASING STEERING SNGLE.
Caps for emphasis. For ME, it’s a timing smoothness thing and if you can hookup at full throttle even a thousandth of a second earlier on exit the gains are huge.
One mistake you see a lot in lower lobbies is on many corners like say for example a right hand turn followed by a straight, many players point their car too much LEFT AND try to get too wide. This means their car has to rotate more degrees to the RIGHT before full throttle can be hit on exit, also they are traveling a longer distance in that area of track.
For ME I find best results with a good line a smooth trail off brake to get rotation and full throttle the earliest possible.
The car won’t do it if the steering isn’t maximum lock at apex then opening past it.
That’s for me. ON POWER EARLY the timing of that is what gets time for ME.
 
Taking a wider arc through a corner means you can carry higher speed. There is more distance travelled vs. the tighter arc but the degree of rotation remains the same. Question becomes whether it is worth the tradeoff.

For me, whenever there is a medium/long straight following a corner the biggest gains come from (i) maximizing use of the track/wide arc, and (ii) late apexing.
 
I find the slower the car the more the big wide line with maximum speed carry is more important.
The faster the car the more getting full throttle traveling minimum distance trumps
all. Go tight rotate goose it.
Gr4 is probably one of the more interesting classes to work on this. Sometimes carrying speed is more important sometimes not.
It’s a great class, challenging to get the most from these...
Gr3 is fast enough that minimum distance is almost always better imo.
There’s always a balance to be found between going tight inside and big and wide straightening it out.
Slow car-carry speed be way wide...Faster car you waste too much time off full throttle doing that.
I will say too, it’s very much more difficult to carry absolute max arc at limit than to dive in tight go deep and punch it.
TurismoLester is amazingly good at driving a geometric line as Skip Barber would describe.
TRC Stagger used to put up some awesome tighter line gr3 laps.
Like turn 1 at Seaside reverse. All the top ten NA laps entered from wide right, but not stagger. He cut off all that distance dove straight in rotated and smashed throttle. I think he was like number 3 or 4 that week.

@Fennario the degrees depend on the angle of car at entry relative to the corner.

Edit re braking, it’s important in many cars though to brake late ENOUGH to get the suspension compressed a bit to maximize grip and stability so that the car doesn’t wheelspin on acceleration. F1500 Red Bull jr. The stiffer sprung cars can be tough to load up well, and steering input mistakes are amplified greatly.
The F1500 in particular is wheelspin central if you don’t get that suspension compressed, you really have to push it just to get it to begin to work.
 
Last edited:
Rexracer702
I don't know why PD doesn't just program the game to ghost any car that goes out of bounds, and keep them ghosted until they're at 80% of the average speed at that point on the track so this type of accident doesn't happen.:dunce:
Click to expand...

tenor.gif
 
Think that is why I get my best times with FF in Gr.4. The inability to put the power down in a turn means I cut corners to get the wheel straightened as quickly as possible vs. riding the arc. Totally screws me up when I transition to FR/MR and my times are at least a full second slower... if I practice to get my FR time down then my FF time drops as well.

The other bit of physics floating in my head is the concept that it is very difficult to make up for lost cornering/exit speed. The longer the following straight, the worse the problem. Think of it like serving a penalty on the Mulsane at Le Sarthe... just a ½ second penalty results in a huge gap (3-4 seconds) by the end of the straight.

@Fish: Misread your post. Assumed the only difference was starting from the left edge of the track vs. more to the inside (ie. both cars had same start and finish angles/degree of rotation). The one thing you do get from the swing-out/swing-in is weight transfer and loading up the outside front for the turn in (if done properly).
 
Last edited:
Groundfish
It’s almost no time to be found on on entry braking late either...in fact braking later loses me more than anything...Better to lift early and brake smoothly there’s very little time to be gained by late braking, bad habit...For me the biggest key is good line hitting apex with STEERING INPUT AT MAX AT APEX THEN GETTING TO FULL THROTTLE AND RELEASING STEERING SNGLE.
Caps for emphasis.
Click to expand...
Can't agree with this more. On a typical lap in a race, you're on full throttle for ~70% of the track and braking for maybe 5% of the track. Yes a lot of passes are completed under braking, but you gain time and catch other drivers on the throttle.

I am currently struggling with your caps part at the first hairpin at Autopolis, because it's such a common dive bomb spot the apex curbs are not really the apex of the "racing line" I've been taking and so I get a bad exit that costs probably a tenth every lap, adds up to almost a second over a race, I've lost wins over less.
 
meekrab
I am currently struggling with your caps part at the first hairpin at Autopolis, because it's such a common dive bomb spot the apex curbs are not really the apex of the "racing line" I've been taking and so I get a bad exit that costs probably a tenth every lap, adds up to almost a second over a race, I've lost wins over less.
Click to expand...

I was running about 15.4 I think average there with tcs 3. That’s a tough little hairpin! In race I enter tight hold the curb with a bit of maintenance throttle for a brief bit before opening up throttle and steering. Hugging inside curb is standard practice for me in race in traffic.
Hooking up on exit there not having tcs activate was getting me gaining on most players. Tcs doesn’t activate if you’re opening steering while adding throttle.
The fastest way through that turn though is entering mid track heavy trail brake and done well it’s full throttle at apex, you have just enough room on the exit curb. The apex is just a hair later than it looks.
Tough turn. That’s why in race I enter tight hug curb a split second with maintenance throttle to keep the car planted (less than 1/4 throttle. For me it’s the most consistent. Plus you gain a lot of places from all the idiots trying to late brake and running wide on entry.

@Fennario the better the cars acceleration the more important it becomes to use that. If a car has slow acceleration apex speed becomes paramount, imo.
The ff are great to practice on wheel. Some of them you can (Megane) stand it on it’s nose coming in, starts to level as you come off brake, baby throttle at first levels it more then you can hammer down.
Edit re car loading yep true, in fact the game line aid comes into braking in many areas at a slight angle because of that. I’m a big believer in using it to learn by. It looks way too tight in many turns but in like a gr3 with good trail braking it becomes excellent.

No stop the vettes weakness is with Very fast players in a tight slipstream pack you have to take caution to avoid understeer, you don’t wanna chase 3 911 taking spoon the way they do, imo you gotta slow a touch more than them in order to get on power on exit to pass on the straight. They can carry very slightly better speed in slipstream on fast turns.
 
Last edited:
Spa is fun but it's also tricky. I was running easy mid-29s on Monday and now I'm pushing it to hit mid-30s. I feel like I'm taking the same lines and hitting the same brake and turn-in points but I guess not.

Sector 2 is for sure my weak spot. Compared to people running 27s I'm only 0.3-0.4s off on sector 1 and 3, but I'm 0.8-1.0s off on sector 2.

Also La Source is really finicky! Miniscule differences make for one or two tenths before Eau Rouge. Two inches off the apex and getting on the throttle too harshly and you're done.

And yeah, it's not a good track for sprints with so many high speed corners and poor overtaking opportunities. For longer races you'll have tyre and fuel affecting people's laps, pit strategies and higher chance of people losing concentration and messing up.
 
Fennario
Taking a wider arc through a corner means you can carry higher speed. There is more distance travelled vs. the tighter arc but the degree of rotation remains the same. Question becomes whether it is worth the tradeoff.

For me, whenever there is a medium/long straight following a corner the biggest gains come from (i) maximizing use of the track/wide arc, and (ii) late apexing.
Click to expand...

It all depends how long the straight away after the corner is. The general rule of thumb is the longer the straight, the later the apex you want to take through the corner. 👍
 
Think we are talking about the same thing... red line for short straight and blue for longer ones. Unless you are linking into another corner, following the "black" line of the track edge on the inside is the least optimal even though it is the shortest distance around the corner.
images_LateApexRacingLine.jpg
 
Last edited:
Fennario
Think we are talking about the same thing... red line for short straight and blue for longer ones. Unless you are linking into another corner, following the "black" line of the track edge on the inside is the least optimal even though it is the shortest distance around the corner. View attachment 950624
Click to expand...

Right, and those lines are for a perfectly flat perfectly simple theoretical 90 degree corner. Those are squared off a bit too.
Things change when you are on circuits like in GTS, not theoretically, but in actual application because the tracks are not perfect flat surfaces.
That and corners are generally linked to other corners but I digress.
The key factor to grip and times is the groove in the track. The subtle bankings that you brake at turn in on and apex at.
You gotta hit those very precisely to maximize speed and ability to power out.
They dictate the best way around.
The racing line.
Too with other cars on the track you have to choose different lines depending on what’s happening.
My apologies for the ocd bit but it’s worth saying.
It took me quite a while to realize the importance of this, the precision necessary and I still am not precise enough after all these hours lol.
Take Nurb GP. There’s oodles of time there by getting in that groove. You can floor it so so early if done right.
But, at least for me it’s one of those where it can be where was I getting that 1.5 seconds every lap yesterday tracks.
Precision, matching the tracks surface with the cars balance etc.
It’s highly addicting for me at least.
 
Fennario
Think we are talking about the same thing... red line for short straight and blue for longer ones. Unless you are linking into another corner, following the "black" line of the track edge on the inside is the least optimal even though it is the shortest distance around the corner. View attachment 950624
Click to expand...
La Source is not a typical corner, for reasons @Groundfish mentions. I think there is something to the advice offered by @GTWolverine ...a shallow entry as opposed to the standard or later apex might allow for getting onto the throttle quicker, and thus a good number of 0.10's by the time you get through Eau Rouge / Raidillon and up Kemmel. Seems to ring true when I think about my occasional flyers, that it helps to approach it shallower and tighter, then use that little banking near the apex to rotate while getting on the throttle as fast as the rear tires allow. I've tried braking later and later and don't seem to make progress, so perhaps it's the answer... brake a little earlier, less forcefully, and glide onto a shallower entry, rotate it hard and time the throttle 'just so' as you carry as much speed on the exit to the left side curbing. Not a traditional turn at all, if that's the optimum way to lower the time. Will give that a try!
 
A good thing to do if you are gettin frustrated with a certain pice of track is drive it slowly like 3 mph and change views and note the slopes present. (Bumper view big advantage) or even stop your car go in photo mode and walk mode and walk around.
It’s easy to miss important details about uphill downhill small seemingly insignificant slope in the track. Many have a hump at the braking point, many fall off a mini cliff beyond it, same with turn in, tracks pd makes are often crowned like just before turn 1 seaside making it easy not to get the car right into the first turn.
There’s reasons aliens are @@@@seemingly@@@@ able time brake turn and throttle as they do and others cannot.
You really gotta take in details over just “try to go fast”. “Brake at the shadow”
Etc. WHY? Why brake right there?
9 of ten it’s subtle changes in the tracks camber making these areas critical to go fast.
Details...:)
 
Well, after two more runs at Spa, I am currently sitting at 1 DR. I'm stuck at 2:34 in qualifying and can't overtake to save my life. I really hope next week I get to drive something with some downforce.

As an aside, I feel like there shouldn't be weeks like this where the strongest vehicle available is a Gr.4. I know the game is primarily focused on GT cars, hence the name, but there should be some variety in the types of vehicles in a week. Two N200s and a Gr.4 don't exactly make for the quickest racing.
 
Agree - Was trying to keep it simple; however, the principle and physics remain the same for more complex corners. In looking at La Source specifically, the groove changes the physics of the corner such that it is faster to ride its line - same with Carousel at Nurburgring. The banking relieves some lateral stress from the tires and you are able to care more speed using it vs. any other line. You still should enter with a "late apex" but the physics of the banking has moved the ideal apex point and associated exit line to match its track. Same principle as my earlier example, just with added physics variables. The "rain line" would be another modification based on available traction.
 
I'm liking the racing this week. Its the first time I've actually felt like I belong in DR-A. Been racing the '86 today. Got a couple of wins and some podiums. I tend to burn up my tires. Best race time so far os an 18:06 but when running in the clear, 08's is where I'm at. Been starting near the front. Couple poles, and a P2 start. Had a real nice race when I started P2. My 13.6 to his 13.2. We battled all race with a couple lead changes. Last lap I made an error and got sideways, lost 2 seconds and had to defend to keep P2. Next race, same guy, but this time I got pole since I put down a 2:12.885 in the 2 laps I had between races.:eek: Part that kills me is that I blew T1 on that lap and was 3mph down at the exit. Managed a 3 star win in that race.

Might run some laps later since I figure I have another .5 sec in me if I can put a lap together. It's strange...sometimes I'm in a groove and I can "see" my prefered (late apex) line. It usually takes 10-20 laps to get there, but if I do, I'm not even really looking at brake markers, just the apex, and the line in my head...and it all flowws. The Q lap was like that starting with the hairpin.
 
Fennario
Think we are talking about the same thing... red line for short straight and blue for longer ones. Unless you are linking into another corner, following the "black" line of the track edge on the inside is the least optimal even though it is the shortest distance around the corner. View attachment 950624
Click to expand...

Yes Sir, that’s the just of what I was taking about. Then once you start tying corners together you can start to figure out how to take each corner best. It’s best to start with the fastest corner that leads to the longest straight and work backwards from there for a given track. 👍
 
FANCY CLOWN
Well, after two more runs at Spa, I am currently sitting at 1 DR. I'm stuck at 2:34 in qualifying and can't overtake to save my life. I really hope next week I get to drive something with some
Click to expand...

Without being a douche, 2.34 means you are fundamentally struggling. Maybe I can help. When I first got this game all I felt was u dersteer compared to project cars or asseto corsa. I was dreadfully slow.

Turned out I wasn't slidingbth car mid corner, you kinda gotta brake and turn at the same time and drag the car through the corner. I am sure you can find 2 seconds realy easily.

Now back to spa, anyone tried the mclaren? It felt good but I always lose time in MR vars, beyter drivers have you given it a lash?

Also what is with sr? Man it is slow to improve w, dog slow. This is taking an age to get away from reaet territory and I've been clean
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Posts

Back