Dear Sony...... I'm thinking of selling my PS3

[DK]

If you sell your PS3 now you'll be kicking yourself when GT5 comes out and you'll have to buy a brand new PS3.

 

[JTF-2]

PR people sent me Forza 3 and loaner xbox to play it on. I wrote my review. Good game, some great features, but the actual driving isn't quite up to par.

I sent the console back.

Now I wish I hadn't. I actually miss Forza 3. It satiates some primordial petrolhead hunger -- a hunger that no other game currently fills.

Meanwhile, my ps3 (which I bought) sits relatively unused. Shift was kinda fun. Prologue got old...

Should've just kept the console. But I didn't and life is short, so I am going to spend a massive chunk of my pathetic income on an xbox.

 

[TokyoDrift]

I do play other games, it's just if Gran Turismo 5 wasn't announced, I wouldn't have bought a console at all, I just don't have that kind of money to throw around.... but for Gran Turismo I make an exception. Gran Turismo, to me, is perfect. Physics that feel right. They may not be 100% realistic, but they just work. Amazing mix of cars/tracks, the list goes on......but at the moment Sony sure are testing that love (or maybe taking advantage of it?).

Selling my PS3 will be no great loss - my 40gb broke down and I was sent a 120gb one a few weeks ago, so I might even come out even.

All I'm saying is, if they had released just little bits of information, I'd still be a happy customer, buying other PS3 games left, right and center. Now, I'm disgruntled.

Would it do anything worse than help GT5's cause to release information?

You still sound like a ratty little child throwing their toys out of their pram. The fact is, you bought a PS3 for game that IS NOT OUT YET. Why? So the game was "announced"...you know PS3 would be getting a version of Gran Turismo anyway, so don't go blaming SONY or PD. You made the assumption about when it would launch, and you spent money well in advance for what turns out to be nothing due to the following...

OK, let me get this right. The lack of news regarding GT5 is what is preventing you from buying and enjoying other games? FFS, cut the melodramatics eh? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Pathetic.

Should've just kept the console. But I didn't and life is short, so I am going to spend a massive chunk of my pathetic income on an xbox.

So like the guy above, do what you want to do. Nobody really cares if you buy an Xbox 360 just to play Forza 3, regardless of your income. If you do, great, I hope you enjoy it...until GT5 comes out anyway.

 

[Devedander]

Does it really matter whether the wheel is 'the official GT wheel' or not? As long as it works with GT isn't that the main thing.

If being the official version isn't what matters, then why does it make sense to have an official version at all?

Have they lied at any point? I must have missed it if they did...

Didn't they say we will have it soon shortly before GTPSP came out? I don't know who's definition of soon this fits under.

And as for being lied to, it's at best plausible deniability. Did Al Capone ever say to kill Joe down the street? No, not technically...

Honestly it sounds a lot like no matter what they do it will be rationlized and excused:

*If they say nothing at all - it's ok they said nothing and reasonable dev periods don't matter for a game as awesome as GT!

*If they say things like it will be done soon, internal memos leaked and all kinds or reasonble evidence points to it - They never said specifically! So they never actually lied!

*Even if they did say a date I have no doubt the fact that they have been late with every version up to now would be used to somehow excuse that as ok.

 

[Famine]

Didn't they say we will have it soon shortly before GTPSP came out? I don't know who's definition of soon this fits under.

Who cares?

No date = no promises

Did Al Capone ever say to kill Joe down the street? No, not technically...

And he went to prison for tax evasion...

 

[SrRd RacinG]

The topic title is spelled all wrong; it's supposed to read: Dear, Sony, I'm running out of tissues. Got any?

 

[machschnel]

[/QUOTE]Have they lied at any point? I must have missed it if they did...[/QUOTE]

I'll pick just one.....

Gran Turismo 5 Prolouge will be updated until GT5 comes out. I remember words to the effect that Prolouge would be very similar to the actual GT5. How did that turn out?

Does it really matter whether the wheel is 'the official GT wheel' or not? As long as it works with GT isn't that the main thing./QUOTE]

Greatly. That's another lie. I didn't buy the wheel just because it will work with GT5 - I can think of two better wheels that will, I bought it because it was "official".

But you can't blame them. Over this time period, things change. Like the whole 3d thing. I hope that making it 3d compatible isn't what is causing the delays

 

[Tenacious D]

The DF GT wheel still works best with Gran Turismo. It seems like you'll complain about anything.

 

[Devedander]

Who cares?

No date = no promises

I would say soon was a promise... where does this sudden rule that an official date is the only thing that is a promise? Does it have to worded just so? Does he literally have to say "I, Kouichi Yamazaki, of Polyphony Digital hereby declare fully and finally, waiving all right to recourse and amendmant that on X day of X year Anno Domini, Gran Turismo 5, the full game, not a demo or prologue or any such variant, will be released for purchase"? do we really have to be pedantic about it all?

So if they say it will be the cheapest game on PS3 but then it's $300 they never said a dollar amount so no promise? If they say over 1000 cars but then there are 600 it's not a broken promise because they didn't say exactly how many?

Sorry I don't buy it... I am fully agreeable "soon" is not a very exact time frame, but I think we have exceeded even the most generous definitions of "soon" now and I am sorry but from the horses mouth is a promise if ever there was one.

It seems the excuses just slide down the slope... if it's just a rumor, then it's not official, if it comes from Sony it didn't come from PD, if it comes from PD it didn't come from Sony, if it comes from both it didn't come from KY's own mouth, if it comes from his own mouth it wasn't a promise... and even if it is a promise we should know better from previous experience... come on...

And he went to prison for tax evasion...

So are you intentionally trying to shift attention from the point I was making or do you really not think he was directly responsible for murders of many people? Just because you don't say it exactly in a certain manner of phrasing and wordage doesn't mean it's not said.

 

[machschnel]

The DF GT wheel still works best with Gran Turismo. It seems like you'll complain about anything.

How can you say? It isn't even out yet.

And these are valid complaints by the way. I'm sure deep down, you've have your complaints as well, but just like 90% of people here you would prefer to continue your blind love for everything Polyphony does - "Great news everyone, it's delayed till Christmas", "That is good news, now it will be so much more perfect"

 

[tyl0r_r]

If being the official version isn't what matters, then why does it make sense to have an official version at all?

...Because there's a lot of dorks like me who will buy it over other products because of the nice shiny glowing GT logo. Marketing 's all. Worked on me 👍

...Carry on, gents.

 

[Famine]

I'll pick just one.....

Gran Turismo 5 Prolouge will be updated until GT5 comes out. I remember words to the effect that Prolouge would be very similar to the actual GT5. How did that turn out?

Don't recall seeing that one.

Greatly. That's another lie. I didn't buy the wheel just because it will work with GT5 - I can think of two better wheels that will, I bought it because it was "official".

It is the current, official GT wheel. So... who's lied?

So are you intentionally trying to shift attention from the point I was making or do you really not think he was directly responsible for murders of many people? Just because you don't say it exactly in a certain manner of phrasing and wordage doesn't mean it's not said.

I just find it hilarious that a games company that hasn't made any promises to break is being accused of lying and compared to Al Capone. Perspective much?

 

[machschnel]

I would say soon was a promise... where does this sudden rule that an official date is the only thing that is a promise? Does it have to worded just so? Does he literally have to say "I, Kouichi Yamazaki, of Polyphony Digital hereby declare fully and finally, waiving all right to recourse and amendmant that on X day of X year Anno Domini, Gran Turismo 5, the full game, not a demo or prologue or any such variant, will be released for purchase"? do we really have to be pedantic about it all?

So if they say it will be the cheapest game on PS3 but then it's $300 they never said a dollar amount so no promise? If they say over 1000 cars but then there are 600 it's not a broken promise because they didn't say exactly how many?

Sorry I don't buy it... I am fully agreeable "soon" is not a very exact time frame, but I think we have exceeded even the most generous definitions of "soon" now and I am sorry but from the horses mouth is a promise if ever there was one.

It seems the excuses just slide down the slope... if it's just a rumor, then it's not official, if it comes from Sony it didn't come from PD, if it comes from PD it didn't come from Sony, if it comes from both it didn't come from KY's own mouth, if it comes from his own mouth it wasn't a promise... and even if it is a promise we should know better from previous experience... come on...



So are you intentionally trying to shift attention from the point I was making or do you really not think he was directly responsible for murders of many people? Just because you don't say it exactly in a certain manner of phrasing and wordage doesn't mean it's not said.

It's funny, your Al Capone comparison is pretty much bang on with Polyphony. The whole "going to prison for tax evasion thing" is just a way of rationalizing
the upcoming revelation of lies or "half-truths" from Polyphony

 

[Nicksfix]

Yes I know Polyphony/Sony owe us nothing.

Your 100% right.PD owes us nothing,not even so much as a dime.Some people need to just get over the fact that GT5 may be taking a little long to complete,so 🤬 what ? Get over it.Guaranteed nobody will be bitcing when the game comes out (besides X-Box fan boys) and see's how awesome it is.Was it worth the wait,you betcha.

At least we are getting GT5, geeee there's a thought. 💡

Kaz very well could have said after GT4 "I'm done,thats the last of the GT games "

But guess what? We don't owe them anything

Yeah ya do,you owe them a thanks for giving us a GT5,well except you,your selling your PS3. Have fun.

 

[Devedander]

I just find it hilarious that a games company that hasn't made any promises to break is being accused of lying and compared to Al Capone. Perspective much?

What exactly defines a promise in your book? Does saying "this will happen within this timeframe" not count as a promise?

I always forget the net is full of people who don't understand how an analogy works. The point isn't to compare to completely similar issues, but to compare two different issues with similarities in order to draw attention to the similarities.

I am not saying releasing a game is of the same importance as being a gang boss, I am pointing out that the be pedantic in your requirements for what constitutes a statement of intent that can be broken is ignoring the spirit of the concept in favor of the letter of the definition.

So again, straight question: What part of "it will be out soon" late last year and still nothing on the near horizon this year does not validate a broken promise?

Your 100% right.PD owes us nothing,not even so much as a dime.Some people need to just get over the fact that GT5 may be taking a little long to complete,so 🤬 what ? Get over it.Guaranteed nobody will be bitcing when the game comes out (besides X-Box fan boys) and see's how awesome it is.Was it worth the wait,you betcha.

I will direct you to the party line: You can't know that, the final game isn't even out yet. Reserve your judgement since all we have to go on is demos.

Or does that rule only work one way?

 

[Seismica]

What exactly defines a promise in your book? Does saying "this will happen within this timeframe" not count as a promise?

I always forget the net is full of people who don't understand how an analogy works. The point isn't to compare to completely similar issues, but to compare two different issues with similarities in order to draw attention to the similarities.

I am not saying releasing a game is of the same importance as being a gang boss, I am pointing out that the be pedantic in your requirements for what constitutes a statement of intent that can be broken is ignoring the spirit of the concept in favor of the letter of the definition.

So again, straight question: What part of "it will be out soon" late last year and still nothing on the near horizon this year does not validate a broken promise?



I will direct you to the party line: You can't know that, the final game isn't even out yet. Reserve your judgement since all we have to go on is demos.

Or does that rule only work one way?

It was more of an estimate than a promise. Plus, the word 'soon' can be interpreted in many ways.

2012, apparently the world will end soon.
I hear a small asteroid is going to hit the earth soon, (or near miss) in 2017.
Prince Charles may inherit the English (Or more politically correct, the British) crown soon... Theres no telling when though.

Not that I'm comparing the release of GT5 with the apocalypse, or an Asteroid hitting the earth, or the consecration of a new Monarch, they're just analogys.

I also think Famine will reply to your post soon. But there is no guarantee, because that isn't a promise.

 

[machschnel]

Your 100% right.PD owes us nothing,not even so much as a dime.Some people need to just get over the fact that GT5 may be taking a little long to complete,so 🤬 what ? Get over it.Guaranteed nobody will be bitcing when the game comes out (besides X-Box fan boys) and see's how awesome it is.Was it worth the wait,you betcha.

At least we are getting GT5, geeee there's a thought. 💡

Kaz very well could have said after GT4 "I'm done,thats the last of the GT games "



Yeah ya do,you owe them a thanks for giving us a GT5,well except you,your selling your PS3. Have fun.

I owe them thanks for GT5?????????????????????????

 

[parker_125]

OK SERIOUSLY can we please stop and let this stupid thread DIE. OK COOL he is selling PS3, and others are not...Ok cool, end of story, please keep it out of the GT5 Forum and bring it up again in the DRAMA Forum when your feeling like more pointless conversation.

MY GOD

 

[Devedander]

It was more of an estimate than a promise. Plus, the word 'soon' can be interpreted in many ways.

2012, apparently the world will end soon.
I hear a small asteroid is going to hit the earth soon, (or near miss) in 2017.
Prince Charles may inherit the English (Or more politically correct, the British) crown soon... Theres no telling when though.

Not that I'm comparing the release of GT5 with the apocalypse, or an Asteroid hitting the earth, or the consecration of a new Monarch, they're just analogys.

I also think Famine will reply to your post soon. But there is no guarantee, because that isn't a promise.

Yes as I said "soon" is a relative term very much controlled by it's context... and in the context I don't think anyone can really argue that GT5 is not coming out "soon" after the announcement was made.

And again, what exactly seperates that from a promise? I don't see a lot of press releases saying "Gamestudio X promises that game will come out on June 15th!".

So I will ask you too, what exactly determines when a statement is a promise? Do they have to actually say the words "I promise""? Does it involve intertwining pinky fingers with someone? Please enlighten me... because as far as I can tell no other game companies really go further when they make a statement.

I keep hearing excuses why any detail is not valid because it didn't meet some criterion... it wasn't at the right/big enough game show, it didn't come from a certain party, it didn't come from Kaz himself... now that it does come from the source "it's not a promise".

Are we back in elementary school where I say I will trade you my cupcake for your cookies, then when you hand me your cookies I say "hah I didn't PROMISE!"?

 

[parker_125]

I give up

 

[GTjazzabrandy]

Just let this thread die.

 

[Seismica]

Yes as I said "soon" is a relative term very much controlled by it's context... and in the context I don't think anyone can really argue that GT5 is not coming out "soon" after the announcement was made.

And again, what exactly seperates that from a promise? I don't see a lot of press releases saying "Gamestudio X promises that game will come out on June 15th!".

So I will ask you too, what exactly determines when a statement is a promise? Do they have to actually say the words "I promise""? Does it involve intertwining pinky fingers with someone? Please enlighten me... because as far as I can tell no other game companies really go further when they make a statement.

I keep hearing excuses why any detail is not valid because it didn't meet some criterion... it wasn't at the right/big enough game show, it didn't come from a certain party, it didn't come from Kaz himself... now that it does come from the source "it's not a promise".

Are we back in elementary school where I say I will trade you my cupcake for your cookies, then when you hand me your cookies I say "hah I didn't PROMISE!"?

There is a clear distinction. So far the only promises that have been made are those posted on the official website, or from words spoken by Mr Yamauchi or another senior member of PD/Sony from an official press release. I wouldn't regard anything said in an interview as confirmed, as the person in question is often thinking off the top of their head and is allowed to make mistakes from time to time. Wording can be very important too. So far for GT5, the only promise that has been broken is the Japanese release date. But then again, release dates: a) Become more likely as the actual date approaches and b) May not be intended as a promise, but more of an educated guess, or a target for the company to reach that has simply been made public.

Saying the game will be released 'soon' is not necessarily a promise. Of the time scale that you would expect in this context like you said, it was false the claim that was made about the game's release. But like I said, the word soon does not really qualify as a promise and neither would the 'promise' be broken if their interpretation of the word soon was different from yours or ours?

Do you not think, if they had released vast amounts of information about the game (i.e. promises) and then failed to deliver, that they would be getting so much more critiscism?

 

[parker_125]

Well I guess if everyone else is going to keep this thread up with senseless text, I'll do the same.

 

[Seismica]

Well I guess if everyone else is going to keep this thread up with senseless text, I'll do the same.

^Nah-uh, someone is speaking sense:

Just let this thread die.

 

[parker_125]

OK SERIOUSLY can we please stop and let this stupid thread DIE. OK COOL he is selling PS3, and others are not...Ok cool, end of story, please keep it out of the GT5 Forum and bring it up again in the DRAMA Forum when your feeling like more pointless conversation.

MY GOD

.

 

[machschnel]

OK SERIOUSLY can we please stop and let this stupid thread DIE. OK COOL he is selling PS3, and others are not...Ok cool, end of story, please keep it out of the GT5 Forum and bring it up again in the DRAMA Forum when your feeling like more pointless conversation.

MY GOD

That's fine, but when we move it to the DRAMA Forum, can your post come too?

The only drama in this thread is coming from people who call heresy on anyone who doesn't gladly accept everything Polyphony does. No one can deny that they have gone about this wrong, and while they may not have been outright "lies", I still feel mislead, which really amounts to the same thing

 

[RACECAR]

OK SERIOUSLY can we please stop and let this stupid thread DIE. OK COOL he is selling PS3, and others are not...Ok cool, end of story, please keep it out of the GT5 Forum and bring it up again in the DRAMA Forum when your feeling like more pointless conversation.

MY GOD

Problem solved.

Glad I did my part, now I won't called out for making a post somehow suggesting a thread to be closed.

 

[killanite]

Can I buy your PS3? give ya 50 bucks for it.
You bought a console for a game not yet released? I don't really think that's Sony/Polyphony's fault...

 

[parker_125]

I'm sorry but I just cant see how this thread is still going, Its just ridiculous, but I guess I can always just stay out of it, but its just soo annoying to see it stay on the top of forum for how many days now?

 

[Devedander]

There is a clear distinction. So far the only promises that have been made are those posted on the official website, or from words spoken by Mr Yamauchi or another senior member of PD/Sony from an official press release.

"But we are focusing our priorities and Gran Turismo will come out on the PSP the 1st of october first. The only thing I want to tell you today, is that GT5 will be released shortly after this date.“

Ok so words from the horses mouth. And my apologies for saying "soon" rather than "shortly after this date". I may be remembering a different quote or just had it wrong in my head. The result is the same though.

I wouldn't regard anything said in an interview as confirmed, as the person in question is often thinking off the top of their head and is allowed to make mistakes from time to time. Wording can be very important too.

Sometimes that's true, but in this case it was the only specific detail being made about the subject... kinda takes that reasoning away.

So far for GT5, the only promise that has been broken is the Japanese release date. But then again, release dates: a) Become more likely as the actual date approaches and b) May not be intended as a promise, but more of an educated guess, or a target for the company to reach that has simply been made public.

And so goes the redirection of attention and rationlization. Even the things that aren't shed off as "not a promise" are rationlized back away again... apparently when it comes to release dates the line of where it's a promise is just a point of view and then even so as long as it's release dates, becauase it's expected it can't really be a broken promise? So basically no promises about release dates can ever be broken by that rational... it gets more ridiculous I see.

Do you not think, if they had released vast amounts of information about the game (i.e. promises) and then failed to deliver, that they would be getting so much more critiscism?

I wasn't comparing potential outcomes, I am simply pointing out that the claim "no promises have been broken" is patently untrue and the level of pedantic rationlization in defense of the subject matter is impressive. The effort made to protect and defend KY and PD and perpetuate the the idolization of all things PD and GT5 is ironic and sometimes hypocrytical considering how adamently opposing views are swept under the carpet with statements like "you can't know that, GT5 isn't out yet" and "what you think doens't make a difference, the game will be awesome garaunteed!"