Different grade of tires: your experiences and opinions

[Streeto]

Then there's those people that think you're crazy or mentally handicapped because you use any tires other than racing soft. It's even worse when people use them on road cars... ;(

I've actually seen a stock road car lobby, with no tire restrictions.

My mind was blown.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

For both GT5 and GT6, I've driven just about every significant non-racing car at Suzuka Circuit attempting to get a fast time. In GT5, I used whatever tire came with the car, but for GT6, I put Sport Hard on everything.

I would LOVE for GT7 to make it easier for me to do my stock time trials with tires as realistic as possible.

 

[TexRex]

Then there's those people that think you're crazy or mentally handicapped because you use any tires other than racing soft. It's even worse when people use them on road cars... ;(

I've actually seen a stock road car lobby, with no tire restrictions.

My mind was blown.

Yeah I've seen more than a few of those. Last night (well, this morning really) I saw an M4 on them--the dang thing can't even be tuned.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think PD should equip tires with appropriate factory grip on all cars to wear that "Real driving simulator" badge proudly without shame.

Back in GT4 there wasn't even oversteer present without comfort tyres.

Great idea, but it'll never happen. It requires an attention to detail you just can't get with 1200 cars and 130 staff. PCars is doing this though, but with a much smaller roster, perhaps 75 cars. Each will come with it's own tire model based on what it raced with or came from the factory. No generic tire modeling in the game so you can't just slap racing softs on every car and race, even offline.

I'd like to see it in GT, but with 1200 cars you pretty much have to go the generic route with everything including tires, suspension, aero, brake strength and fade, crash damage, upshifting, downshifting etc. GT doesn't model individual cars, they create a shell that looks like the car and then impute a generic set of parameters to it. That's why they all upshift and downshift the same, why braking distances are nearly identical given similar specs, why brakes don't fade, why all the tires are the same etc.

 

[Greycap]

Then there's those people that think you're crazy or mentally handicapped because you use any tires other than racing soft.

I have to say that while those people are a class of their own I'm not at all sure that the "I only use comfort hards and no ABS and thus I'm better than all of you combined" types are any better. While the former group is a nuisance it's usually a pretty easily avoidable nuisance, the latter creeps up every time tyres and/or driving aids are mentioned.

But my own opinion about tyres? Considering that this is a racing game I'll certainly go for sensible choices with track driving in mind and not for what I'd use on a daily driver. Comforts do the job below 400PP, after that it's Sports tyres for road cars and racing cars usually get the Racing Hards they come equipped with because I don't see any point in running anything else than slicks on a car that has them in real life too. Oddly enough Racing Hards don't seem to offer a great deal more grip than Sports Softs but the handling is a lot more edgy, I should probably try the CS/SH pair too to see if there's a similar situation.

 

[TexRex]

I feel that comfort tires do a great deal more than any other compound to communicate with the driver as to what's going on with the car. Hards are a bit extreme and excessive wheelspin or brake lock can silence this communication but I rarely have any difficulty getting a feel for what a car's capable of on Mediums. I can then take this information and translate it into improved lap times on the softer compounds.
That whole elitism thing can go both ways too you know. I know I'm not the fastest one out there but a significant portion of the steadfast Racing Soft users are quick to point out just how much better than others they are as long as those others aren't on Racing Softs. I don't denigrate based on tire choice (the exception being ludicrosity such as the aforementioned M4 Coupe on Racing Softs--and then it was purely in jest) and the only time/way I impose my will is in the form of room restrictions which are often also mentioned in the room name.
One last note, lower grade tires don't necessarily have to be all that limiting. Even an Enzo on Comfort Hards has heap big grippum, kemosabe.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I feel that comfort tires do a great deal more than any other compound to communicate with the driver as to what's going on with the car. Hards are a bit extreme and excessive wheelspin or brake lock can silence this communication but I rarely have any difficulty getting a feel for what a car's capable of on Mediums. I can then take this information and translate it into improved lap times on the softer compounds.

Nail meets head This is why I prefer harder compounds, you get more communication through the wheel, the physics come to life. The game is just more enjoyable for me when I have to balance throttle, brake and steering input and I'm on the edge of grip throughout the lap. I realize this isn't for everyone and that's fine, but it has nothing to do with elitism and more just personal preference. And it's also true that learning to drive on harder compounds makes you faster on the soft ones. If you can drive a Yellowbird around the 'Ring on Comfort Softs, doing it on RS tires is a walk in the park IMO.

 

[vr6cas]

Example, a psn friend and one of many of my Gran Turismo hot lapping buddy's @aronh17 and I love comparing and testing stock supercars on the Nurburgring and we use the tires that are the most realistic to real life. A few months ago he was using sports soft to run his Ferrari 458, and I was telling him it has to much grip for the car. He was on the fence on using comforts at first, he was like I wouldn't put tires designed for a civic on my supercar. I was like trust me comfort soft is perfect for stock supercars, so, he put some comfort softs on his 458 and we proceeded to do several laps.

I got in my LFA Nurburgring Package on comfort softs (a rivalry car to his 458, a rivalry that's been going on between him and I since GT5, 458 vs regular LFA in which the 458 used to slightly edge out the regular LFA, and used to say if only I had the Nurburgring Package) and lap after lap he realized I was right that comfort softs provides a way more realistic experience. He was getting faster and faster after every corner and got used to the tires until we was ready to settle this beef.

We lined them up and took off, throughout the lap I was on his bumper the whole lap, he couldn't leave me, so then the next lap I led and I could not leave him. It was a mutual respect moment for both cars and drivers on comfort softs!

Now, we started driving other cars on comfort softs and he wondered how the stock enzo performed, a car he did not own at the time. So I pulled out my stock enzo, no oil change on comfort softs and proceeded on the track for some laps. So he ask I wonder what lap time you can run. So I did the warm up lap driving slow to come around to get a timed lap. As he watched me do the lap I was pushing hard and focused to get a good clean lap in. And across the line!(Clarkson voice, lol) I ran a 7:28.xxx, he was impressed and the first thing he said was wow, the real life lap time of the Ferrari Enzo is a 7:25.xxx, and I was like well theres your answer. And really it was about right because where they stop the real life time and the one in game is about three seconds apart. Real life they stop the time as soon as you come around the last corner while in game it's at the starting line.

Like someone said above, comforts are for not the elitist, it's for people who want a realistic approach to Gran Turismo, it's all about personal preference I guess. People that put racing soft on all street cars are after something totally different I guess.

 

[Duppy Gee]

I recently joined a room running stock 400-550pp using comfort hards. Loved it. Only problem was the host refused to put ABS on which would've attracted more than the 4 of us to some quality racing. I feel it's very realistic as I imagine flooring a real 458 Italia in 3rd gear would result in me ending up in a bush. I use DS3 with no aids.
My tyre choices would be comforts for all road cars and sport hard for racing cars. Being able to floor a 500bhp racing Supra out of a 2nd gear bend is no fun for me. Finding grip and traction while trying to beat the next man is.

 

[jr93alty]

I recently joined a room running stock 400-550pp using comfort hards. Loved it. Only problem was the host refused to put ABS on which would've attracted more than the 4 of us to some quality racing. I feel it's very realistic as I imagine flooring a real 458 Italia in 3rd gear would result in me ending up in a bush. I use DS3 with no aids.
My tyre choices would be comforts for all road cars and sport hard for racing cars. Being able to floor a 500bhp racing Supra out of a 2nd gear bend is no fun for me. Finding grip and traction while trying to beat the next man is.

Third gear? Doubtful unless the wheels aren't straight. Based on a quick search, the redline shift from 2nd to third is around 70. The 458 is not nearly powerful enough to break the tires uncontrollably loose at those speeds and at lower speeds, the low torque of that motor added to low rpms also aren't breaking you loose. This is where GT6's comfort tires are sometimes misleading on some MR cars. Many of these cars (although not the 458) are death traps by just touching the steering wheel above 70mph on comfort tires which isn't realistic for most cars. Just think of how many Pontiac Grand Ams have made high speed maneuvers on freeways to avoid something at 75+mph without losing control and on old discount tires while some cars fishtail in GT6 by just breathing on them. I'll say it again. Don't take tire compounds too serious on this game. There is a lot to be worked out and you don't even know what each grade means. Also, for the elitist crowd of CH and no aids...you do realize that most supercars leave the ABS on when you enter race mode don't you? The seriousness of the tires/aids discussion is always comical to me. I'm guessing many of these people have never actually raced a real car and obviously not a supercar for that matter. Turning off ABS in anything other than racing cars that actually don't have ABS is not more realistic, it just makes some people think they are awesome and better drivers than everyone else. If you do it for fun, good for you...if you do it and think anyone that doesn't do it is a loser...I don't know what to tell you.

 

[vr6cas]

Third gear? Doubtful unless the wheels aren't straight. Based on a quick search, the redline shift from 2nd to third is around 70. The 458 is not nearly powerful enough to break the tires uncontrollably loose at those speeds and at lower speeds, the low torque of that motor added to low rpms also aren't breaking you loose. This is where GT6's comfort tires are sometimes misleading on some MR cars. Many of these cars (although not the 458) are death traps by just touching the steering wheel above 70mph on comfort tires which isn't realistic for most cars. Just think of how many Pontiac Grand Ams have made high speed maneuvers on freeways to avoid something at 75+mph without losing control and on old discount tires while some cars fishtail in GT6 by just breathing on them. I'll say it again. Don't take tire compounds too serious on this game. There is a lot to be worked out and you don't even know what each grade means. Also, for the elitist crowd of CH and no aids...you do realize that most supercars leave the ABS on when you enter race mode don't you? The seriousness of the tires/aids discussion is always comical to me. I'm guessing many of these people have never actually raced a real car and obviously not a supercar for that matter. Turning off ABS in anything other than racing cars that actually don't have ABS is not more realistic, it just makes some people think they are awesome and better drivers than everyone else. If you do it for fun, good for you...if you do it and think anyone that doesn't do it is a loser...I don't know what to tell you.

Ok, the ABS thing is debatable with some cars. You say obviously not a supercar, so is it right that a lot of people use racing soft tires with no tire wear for everything? I mean 400pp rs is pretty comical imo.

 

[noseknows36]

I usually run comfort softs on most supercars (Ferrari's, RUF's, BMW's, etc) because it just seems like the closest compound to their real life tires. I have no problem running with sports or racing tires. It just depends on the people I'm racing with and what format and type of driving we are doing. The whole "elitist" idea is a bit strange to me. I think some people just enjoy driving on the comfort compounds because they are more communicative and closer to real life grip for most cars. It's done for personal enjoyment.

As for ABS in GT, that's a totally different story. ABS in GT doesn't act as real ABS does. It's almost a form of stability control, like an assist. But there is no wrong or right way to drive or use assists, and I will leave it at that. People should drive the way they find to be most enjoyable.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Third gear? Doubtful unless the wheels aren't straight. Based on a quick search, the redline shift from 2nd to third is around 70. The 458 is not nearly powerful enough to break the tires uncontrollably loose at those speeds and at lower speeds, the low torque of that motor added to low rpms also aren't breaking you loose. This is where GT6's comfort tires are sometimes misleading on some MR cars. Many of these cars (although not the 458) are death traps by just touching the steering wheel above 70mph on comfort tires which isn't realistic for most cars. Just think of how many Pontiac Grand Ams have made high speed maneuvers on freeways to avoid something at 75+mph without losing control and on old discount tires while some cars fishtail in GT6 by just breathing on them. I'll say it again. Don't take tire compounds too serious on this game. There is a lot to be worked out and you don't even know what each grade means. Also, for the elitist crowd of CH and no aids...you do realize that most supercars leave the ABS on when you enter race mode don't you? The seriousness of the tires/aids discussion is always comical to me. I'm guessing many of these people have never actually raced a real car and obviously not a supercar for that matter. Turning off ABS in anything other than racing cars that actually don't have ABS is not more realistic, it just makes some people think they are awesome and better drivers than everyone else. If you do it for fun, good for you...if you do it and think anyone that doesn't do it is a loser...I don't know what to tell you.

You had me until you used the "elitist" label...I ignored everything after that:tdown:.

 

[diegorborges]

Comfort tires are a whole new world!

Three things opened my eyes:

- V 1.09 update with the tires tweak
- Asseto Corsa (imho, the best pure simulator actually)
- This thread

Asseto Corsa physics feel so real and natural that I started to look for a similar feeling in Gran Turismo. The nearest I could find was using comfort tires in the cars. Specially Supercars, they shine and get a lot more alive! Tire sidewall and flex still have some ways to go but it just feels much better!

One more comfort tire enthusiast here. Loving it! It's a whole new game.

Thank you all for sharing your opinions on this thread. A lot of valuable info here.

 

[raweer]

hi, i've choosen for our time trials (no tuning, no aids at all) for Cobra64, 330P4 and GT40 only Ch (otherwise, i'm faster then real drivers - and i hate that). For the 97T, i've choosen Sm (same reason - i don't like to beat Senna). cheers, r.

PS: pls, PD, provide those infos, it's silly, when we've to do all those tests again (!)

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Third gear? Doubtful unless the wheels aren't straight. Based on a quick search, the redline shift from 2nd to third is around 70. The 458 is not nearly powerful enough to break the tires uncontrollably loose at those speeds and at lower speeds, the low torque of that motor added to low rpms also aren't breaking you loose. This is where GT6's comfort tires are sometimes misleading on some MR cars. Many of these cars (although not the 458) are death traps by just touching the steering wheel above 70mph on comfort tires which isn't realistic for most cars. Just think of how many Pontiac Grand Ams have made high speed maneuvers on freeways to avoid something at 75+mph without losing control and on old discount tires while some cars fishtail in GT6 by just breathing on them. I'll say it again. Don't take tire compounds too serious on this game. There is a lot to be worked out and you don't even know what each grade means. Also, for the elitist crowd of CH and no aids...you do realize that most supercars leave the ABS on when you enter race mode don't you? The seriousness of the tires/aids discussion is always comical to me. I'm guessing many of these people have never actually raced a real car and obviously not a supercar for that matter. Turning off ABS in anything other than racing cars that actually don't have ABS is not more realistic, it just makes some people think they are awesome and better drivers than everyone else. If you do it for fun, good for you...if you do it and think anyone that doesn't do it is a loser...I don't know what to tell you.

ABS in GT6 is brake assist, it does not simulate ABS system, so if you want more realistic experience, remove the game assist/aids/interference.

Stock factory tires for Lexus ISF in GT6 is CM as most cars in the PP level range are also between CM and CS tires.

LEXUS IS F '07 OHLINS R&T DFV/OS Giken Replica
Real World Setup
Tuned to replicate Lexus IS F Tsukuba Lap Record
Comfort Medium​

View attachment 177221
​

CAR : LEXUS IS F '07
Tire : Comfort Medium

Specs
Horsepower: 416 HP / 422 PS at 6600 RPM
Torque : 372.7 ft-lb at 5200 RPM
Power Limiter at : 93.4%
Weight: 1715 kg - official curb weight
Ballast : 92 kg
Ballast Position : -14
Weight Distribution : 54 / 46 as in real life
Performance Points: 496


GT AUTO
NO OIL change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED IN THIS BUILD )
Wheels : Stock
Car Paint : Silver or Blue

Tuning Parts Installed :
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension

View attachment 177222
​

Suspension - OHLINS Road & Track DFV Coilover Damper Kit (100N/mm / 60N/mm ) - Stock Ride Height + Factory Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 132 112
Spring Rate: 10.19 6.11
Dampers (Compression): 6 8
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.9 0.8 ( factory : F -0.87+-0.75, R -0.78+-0.75 )
Toe Angle: 0.02 0.24 ( factory : F 0.18mm+-2mm, R 3mm+-2mm ) GT6 values : F 0.02+-0.16, R 0.24+-0.16 - all values are total toe in ( + )

Suspension - OHLINS Road & Track DFV Coilover Damper Kit (100N/mm / 60N/mm ) - 15mm Lowered Preset Ohlins Ride Height + Factory Alignment with Optimum Camber for Track
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 117 97
Spring Rate: 10.19 6.11
Dampers (Compression): 6 8
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.6 1.5 ( factory : F -0.87+-0.75, R -0.78+-0.75 )
Toe Angle: 0.02 0.24 ( factory : F 0.18mm+-2mm, R 3mm+-2mm ) GT6 values : F 0.02+-0.16, R 0.24+-0.16 - all values are total toe in ( + )


Suspension - OHLINS Road & Track DFV Coilover Damper Kit (100N/mm / 60N/mm ) -35mm Lowest Ride Height + Factory Alignment with Optimum Camber for Track
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 97 77
Spring Rate: 10.19 6.11
Dampers (Compression): 6 8
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.6 1.5 ( factory : F -0.87+-0.75, R -0.78+-0.75 )
Toe Angle: 0.02 0.24 ( factory : F 0.18mm+-2mm, R 3mm+-2mm ) GT6 values : F 0.02+-0.16, R 0.24+-0.16 - all values are total toe in ( + )


LSD - OS Giken SuperLock 1.5 Way LSD with Custom Preload and Lock
Initial Torque : 27
Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
Braking Sensitivity: 17


AERO:
REAR : 30 ( Fixed )


Brake Balance:
6/7 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 6/7, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I recommend to run 6/7 for ABS 1.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 6/7 brake balance as starting point.

View attachment 178178​

Notes :
This special replica is one of the most enjoyable car to drive

The Lexus IS F in GT6 is a bit of a mess, a lot of inaccuracy, from power to weight specs. This particular build is replicating a stock powered Lexus IS F with aftermarket suspension and LSD to replace the awful brake based E-LSD that came from factory.

Power is 416HP, in GT6, the IS F came stock with too much power and way too light. Official curb weight is at 1715kg with 54/46 distribution. This figure is with full fuel tank.

For the suspension, I chose Ohlins Road and Track DFV coilover kit. With spring rate at 100N/mm and 60N/mm, the aim is to allow the IS F to be driven with comfort on the street, but also can double as weekend track warrior with good performance. I provided 3 sets of setup, 3 different ride height, stock, 15mm lowered preset from Ohlins and lowest -35mm ride height possible from the Ohlins R&T coilover.

For stock ride height, I used factory street alignment, while the lowered ride height are setup with optimal camber based on the Lexus manual factory alignment.

Factory camber alignment range : F -0.87 +- 0.75 and R -0.78 +- 0.75
Factory toe angle alignment range : F 0.18mm +- 2mm, R 3mm +- 2mm ( all are toe in value - positive ) GT6 values for toe in degree : F 0.02 +- 0.16, R 0.24 +- 0.16 - all base values are total toe in ( + )

LSD is 1.5 way OS Giken SuperLock with high preload and medium lock for balance on the street and track.

I tuned and tested mainly at Tsukuba, aiming to replicate real life record at 1:07.09. This is achievable on comfort medium tire. My test laps were in 1:06s. The replica was built in 1.08, please leave any feedback when driven on 1.09



ENJOY

Stock ride height - Lexus Manual 131.7mm / 112.1mm
View attachment 178174

GT6 - 132mm / 112mm
View attachment 178177​

The lap time is achievable easily without any aids and I use stick controller.

 

[TexRex]

For the 97T, i've choosen Sm (same reason - i don't like to beat Senna).

I recall seeing that an appropriate setup for the 97T is SM and minimal downforce (to simulate F1 grip of the era) and something like 79% (after oil change, I gather) power limiter to reach a more realistic top speed with the default gearing.

Had only time enough for one hot lap but ran a 8:01.545 around the 'Ring in a stock (no oil change) GT-R '07 on CM without ABS. Had to dodge a violent wreck at Bergwerk and locked up hard in the process but barely eeked by and had to modify my line to allow faster (yep, Racing Softs) cars to pass, so I can see getting well under 8--7:35 (Horst von Saurma ran 7:34 in '11 in a brand-new at the time model) isn't unheard of with enough seat time. Sure was interesting coming over the hill before Hohenrain at 189 without ABS on CM, it was a first for me as far as I can recall.

 

[Duppy Gee]

Third gear? Doubtful unless the wheels aren't straight. Based on a quick search, the redline shift from 2nd to third is around 70. The 458 is not nearly powerful enough to break the tires uncontrollably loose at those speeds and at lower speeds, the low torque of that motor added to low rpms also aren't breaking you loose. This is where GT6's comfort tires are sometimes misleading on some MR cars. Many of these cars (although not the 458) are death traps by just touching the steering wheel above 70mph on comfort tires which isn't realistic for most cars. Just think of how many Pontiac Grand Ams have made high speed maneuvers on freeways to avoid something at 75+mph without losing control and on old discount tires while some cars fishtail in GT6 by just breathing on them. I'll say it again. Don't take tire compounds too serious on this game. There is a lot to be worked out and you don't even know what each grade means. Also, for the elitist crowd of CH and no aids...you do realize that most supercars leave the ABS on when you enter race mode don't you? The seriousness of the tires/aids discussion is always comical to me. I'm guessing many of these people have never actually raced a real car and obviously not a supercar for that matter. Turning off ABS in anything other than racing cars that actually don't have ABS is not more realistic, it just makes some people think they are awesome and better drivers than everyone else. If you do it for fun, good for you...if you do it and think anyone that doesn't do it is a loser...I don't know what to tell you.

These settings are fun for me. Not for everybody. Calling me elitist, and assuming I think everyone is a loser for not doing what I do? I don't know what to tell you.

 

[cjr3559]

Preferring comfort tires and being called an elitist hurts my feelings! Heck, I've got cheap taste when it comes to tires.

 

[TexRex]

Heck, I've got cheap taste when it comes to tires.

There ya go!

Edit: 8:49.133 around the 'Ring in stock (no oil change) Nissan GT-R '07 on Comfort Medium tires and no ABS. I know it can come down even more but I'm still locking up before the blue wall at Breidscheid and the lateral sheer is more than a bit unnerving at times when clipping some of the taller curbs. Can't wait for @Ridox2JZGTE to get his stock real world stock and alignment tune up (in queue) so that I can give it a whirl.

As for ABS in GT, that's a totally different story. ABS in GT doesn't act as real ABS does. It's almost a form of stability control, like an assist.

100%. There are times when I use ABS, such as when all enjoyment has been lost to the tedium and/or difficulty of a task (cough cough IS F CCS-R Super Lap cough cough), and I can feel it go beyond merely keeping the brakes from locking. I'm no "pro," but I like to run without ABS and I like to make a point of including it in the briefing of my experiences not so much to feel special, but actually [this isn't what I mean but it's the only way I can think of to say it] almost as an excuse.

 

[jr93alty]

These settings are fun for me. Not for everybody. Calling me elitist, and assuming I think everyone is a loser for not doing what I do? I don't know what to tell you.

You had me until you used the "elitist" label...I ignored everything after that:tdown:.

If that isn't you then I wasn't talking to you. I am however talking to the decent chunk of people that do have this attitude. And sorry Johnny, I really wrote that hoping you'd pay attention to me. I'm so sad that you ignored an internet post. I'll say it again, the wannabe purist/"elitist" crap annoys me and probably 90% of people that aren't on this forum and this forum is a small chunk of the gaming crowd which some people often forget. It's like the people that only listen to indie or underground music cuz it's SOOOO much better. The mainstream may be wrong often and suck sometimes but to call it stupid because you want to be different and better is weird.

 

[vr6cas]

Third gear? Doubtful unless the wheels aren't straight. Based on a quick search, the redline shift from 2nd to third is around 70. The 458 is not nearly powerful enough to break the tires uncontrollably loose at those speeds and at lower speeds, the low torque of that motor added to low rpms also aren't breaking you loose. This is where GT6's comfort tires are sometimes misleading on some MR cars. Many of these cars (although not the 458) are death traps by just touching the steering wheel above 70mph on comfort tires which isn't realistic for most cars. Just think of how many Pontiac Grand Ams have made high speed maneuvers on freeways to avoid something at 75+mph without losing control and on old discount tires while some cars fishtail in GT6 by just breathing on them. I'll say it again. Don't take tire compounds too serious on this game. There is a lot to be worked out and you don't even know what each grade means. Also, for the elitist crowd of CH and no aids...you do realize that most supercars leave the ABS on when you enter race mode don't you? The seriousness of the tires/aids discussion is always comical to me. I'm guessing many of these people have never actually raced a real car and obviously not a supercar for that matter. Turning off ABS in anything other than racing cars that actually don't have ABS is not more realistic, it just makes some people think they are awesome and better drivers than everyone else. If you do it for fun, good for you...if you do it and think anyone that doesn't do it is a loser...I don't know what to tell you.

After reading your post a couple of times to try to understand what your saying I've come to two conclusions, one is that you can't drive on comforts or two your part of the racing soft no tire wear crowd.

 

[TexRex]

Third gear? Doubtful unless the wheels aren't straight. Based on a quick search, the redline shift from 2nd to third is around 70. The 458 is not nearly powerful enough to break the tires uncontrollably loose at those speeds and at lower speeds, the low torque of that motor added to low rpms also aren't breaking you loose. This is where GT6's comfort tires are sometimes misleading on some MR cars. A) Many of these cars (although not the 458) are death traps by just touching the steering wheel above 70mph on comfort tires which isn't realistic for most cars. Just think of how many Pontiac Grand Ams have made high speed maneuvers on freeways to avoid something at 75+mph without losing control and on old discount tires while some cars fishtail in GT6 by just breathing on them. I'll say it again. B) Don't take tire compounds too serious on this game. There is a lot to be worked out and you don't even know what each grade means. C) Also, for the elitist crowd of CH and no aids...you do realize that most supercars leave the ABS on when you enter race mode don't you? D) The seriousness of the tires/aids discussion is always comical to me. E) I'm guessing many of these people have never actually raced a real car and obviously not a supercar for that matter. F) Turning off ABS in anything other than racing cars that actually don't have ABS is not more realistic, it just makes some people think they are awesome and better drivers than everyone else. G) If you do it for fun, good for you...if you do it and think anyone that doesn't do it is a loser...I don't know what to tell you.

A) You started off reasonably enough, MR cars can be difficult to control and require modified driving techniques in the form of braking in a straight line on the approach and applying a small amount of throttle while braking as you get nearer to the apex so that the amount of weight transferred to the front wheels is minimized. Then you go and muck it all up by referring to high speed maneuverability of Pontiac Grand Ams--when has the Grand Am ever been MR?
B) The game doesn't explain in depth, but grip levels under acceleration and cornering loads can be inferred by comparing performance to real-world lap times. If a two grade reduction in compound can yield a comparable time, surely something's not gelling regarding the tires provided as default.
C) There has been no elitism regarding the harder compounds and use of driving aids in this thread directed at anyone else participating in this thread. You may have had experiences of this elitism during gameplay, but for the purposes of this debate, here, it need not be factored in. Regarding the fixed use of ABS on sports cars with toggled settings; that's all well and good when we're really talking about ABS. ABS as it's modelled in the game doesn't behave as it does in real life (and I'm not saying it should be, I imagine that could be quite difficult), and those seeking a more realistic experience can choose to opt out of use and instead take more care under braking. Depending on track conditions, one side may lock or be more susceptible to lock than the other and there won't be a hand there guiding the car down a straighter path. (Yeah, cars can be steered with their brakes as well as their throttle.)
D) Fantastic! Have a laugh! But that said, the idea here is people share their experiences and opinions and hey, maybe there's even some constructive debate over said opinions.
E) Ooh ooh ooh!!! Can I use your crystal ball? You have no insight whatsoever into what experience and/or experiences people whom you do not know have and/or have had.
F) The former has already been addressed. As for the latter; again, you have no insight whatsoever into what others think unless they choose to express it, and nobody here has expressed or proclaimed this prowess. It's unfortunate if you've experienced this during gameplay but discussion of it is unnecessary here.
G) I couldn't agree with you more on both counts. (And I'm glad I got to end on a positive note.)

So please, share your opinions and experiences--there are people (well certainly one) here who genuinely want to read what you have to say in this regard--but can we please stop with the whole "elitism" thing? It has no place in a constructive debate...whether it be expression or accusation.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I always try to use a set of tyres closest to what would be fitted from factory. But that's not all; I also adapt tyres to the age of the car. IE that means f ex a Jaguar e-type gets CH tyres, because the tyre tech wasn't as good in the sixties as it is now.
Fun car: Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniv. CM tyres, no driving aids, no ABS. Takes a while getting used to!

 

[TexRex]

I always try to use a set of tyres closest to what would be fitted from factory. But that's not all; I also adapt tyres to the age of the car. IE that means f ex a Jaguar e-type gets CH tyres, because the tyre tech wasn't as good in the sixties as it is now.
Fun car: Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniv. CM tyres, no driving aids, no ABS. Takes a while getting used to!

Absolutely. I'm not sure if factors such as bias ply construction or early radial construction have been considered by the developers but they certainly wouldn't offer the same lateral grip as modern rubber. And it does take some time and patience to learn to cope with the reduced grip and decreased stability.

Here's a little something extra:

345/35R15s as offered on the Countach 25th Anniversary.

 

[azidahaka]

I just noticed that i forgot to ask a very important question to the people that replied here that use a wheel and very hard compounds;

What kind of FFB level do you use?

I think that is another very important part of the perception of realism, and one of the things that might make a big difference.

For example, i'm usually racing on RH or RS in racecars and LMPs in my for fun runs and i've got used to run at the max FFB level (10); it just struck to me that one of the reason very hard compounds may seem way too hard to drive and control might be a to high level of FFB not allowing very fast recovery while driving?

What is considered the "realistic" amount of FFB to use compared to driving a sport or racecar? What are you using as your setting?

 

[Thematic]

What is considered the "realistic" amount of FFB to use compared to driving a sport or racecar? What are you using as your setting?

I take it the ten settings are not comparable, wheel to wheel. But I use "5" (Driving Force Pro) and it seems to be too light at low speeds, too high for racing. Based on what I've read about eg. Lamborghini Diablo.

There is a "power steering" option that I haven't tried.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

There ya go!

Edit: 8:49.133 around the 'Ring in stock (no oil change) Nissan GT-R '07 on Comfort Medium tires and no ABS. I know it can come down even more but I'm still locking up before the blue wall at Breidscheid and the lateral sheer is more than a bit unnerving at times when clipping some of the taller curbs. Can't wait for @Ridox2JZGTE to get his stock real world stock and alignment tune up (in queue) so that I can give it a whirl.

100%. There are times when I use ABS, such as when all enjoyment has been lost to the tedium and/or difficulty of a task (cough cough IS F CCS-R Super Lap cough cough), and I can feel it go beyond merely keeping the brakes from locking. I'm no "pro," but I like to run without ABS and I like to make a point of including it in the briefing of my experiences not so much to feel special, but actually [this isn't what I mean but it's the only way I can think of to say it] almost as an excuse.

Well, wait no more I have updated both - GPRM Toyota GT86 GT4 and Nissan GTR 07 Replica

GPRM Motorsport TOYOTA 86GT Turbo GT4 Replica

Tuned to replicate GPRM GT86 Turbo GT4
Sports Soft​

View attachment 179027​

CAR : Toyota 86 'Racing' '13
Tire : Sports Soft

Specs
Horsepower: 399 HP at 8000 RPM
Torque : 287.4 ft-lb at 5500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 100%
Weight: 1190 kg
Ballast : 47 kg
Ballast Position : -35
Weight Distribution : 54 / 46 as the real car spec.
Performance Points: 508

GT AUTO
Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( INSTALLED ) -MANDATORY - GT4 cars are seam welded and has weld in cage.
Aero Kits Type A
Custom Rear Wing :
Wing Mount Standard Type B
Wing Large Type B
Winglets Large Type C
Height -5 and Width -32
Wheels : +1 Inch Up - OZ RACING Ultraleggera or RAYS 57Xtreme in grey or silver
Car Paint : White, Black, or Grey


Tuning Parts Installed :
Engine Tuning Stage 3
Sports Computer
Racing Exhaust
Isometric Exhaust Manifold
Intake Tuning
Mid RPM Range Turbo Kit
Catalytic Converter Sports
Fully Customizable Suspension
Racing Brakes Kit
Weight Reduction Stage 1



Suspension - EIBACH Sportsline Springs / Koni 2 Way Damper Kit
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 93 106
Spring Rate: 15.67 18.67
Dampers (Compression): 8 7
Dampers (Extension): 9 8
Anti-Roll Bars: 6 5
Camber Angle: 3.0 1.2
Toe Angle: -0.16 0.08

​

LSD - 1.5 Way 55/75 Salisbury type LSD High Preload
Initial Torque : 24
Acceleration Sensitivity: 27
Braking Sensitivity: 10


AERO:
REAR : 20 ( Max )


Brake Balance:
5/6 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 4/5, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I would recommend to run just one click higher on rear brake.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 5/6 brake balance as starting point.



Notes :

This replica is very hard to built with very limited information available on the car. Early 2013, the car was on the news, it may have been the first 86 built for GT4 class.

The GPRM Ltd who built the car stated it has 350-400HP with turbo added. Not much else was disclosed, so I have to improvise. I used the base model for CS V3 Cup car as a base setup for the GT4 car. Suspension uses similar spring rate with revised ride height and tweaking on the damper, ARB, toe and camber. The real car uses Eibach Sportsline coil springs and Koni 2 way fully adjustable damper.

LSD uses high preload 1.5 way with medium/high lock 55/75 to replicate Salisbury type diff used on the GPRM GT86 GT4. I leave the gearbox in stock form as it's more than enough to do the job and quite versatile on various tracks ( the real car has 6 speed sequential conversion but may still uses stock ratio as the Brit24 86 car also built GPRM uses stock ratio ). Weight distribution has also been fixed ( similar to the CS V3 Cup car ) The weight figure is slightly less than CS V3 Cup 86, with 1190kg, I pick this value considering the GT4 car has stripped out interior, perspex windows, lightened body shell and similar chassis modification to CS V3 Cup.

For closer performance compared to other GT4 cars, I decided on 399HP power using mid rpm turbo, this allows the GT86 to lap quite close to real life times at Silverstone GP. During testing, the car is capable of 2:13s lap on SS tire.

NISSAN GTR '07 Stock Replica
Real World Setup and Alignment
Tuned to replicate Nissan GTR '07 - Tsukuba and Motegi Lap Record
Comfort Soft​

View attachment 179231
​

CAR : Nissan GTR '07
Tire : Comfort Soft

Specs
Horsepower: 473 HP / 480 PS at 6800 RPM
Torque : 442.6 ft-lb at 3500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 97.8%
Weight: 1740 kg - official curb weight
Ballast : 192 kg
Ballast Position : -35
Weight Distribution : 55 / 45 as in real life
Performance Points: 526


GT AUTO
NO OIL change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED IN THIS BUILD )
Wheels : Stock
Car Paint : Silver or Red

Tuning Parts Installed :
Fully Customizable Suspension
Weight Reduction Stage 1

View attachment 180029
​

Suspension - Bilstein Damptronic with Stock Ride Height + Factory Nissan Street / Daily Driving Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 110 110
Spring Rate: 9.82 5.36
Dampers (Compression): 5 6
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.4 1.4 ( factory : F -1.44 to -1.51, R -1.40 to -1.73)
Toe Angle: 0.10 0.10 ( factory : F Toe Out 0.9mm or 1/8" to 1/16" to Toe In 1.5mm, R Toe Out 0.3mm to Toe In 3.7mm ) GT6 values : F -0.22 to 0.10, R -0.02 to 0.26 range.


Suspension - Bilstein Damptronic with Stock Ride Height + Factory Nissan Sport / Track Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 110 110
Spring Rate: 9.82 5.36
Dampers (Compression): 5 6
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.8 1.7 ( factory : F -1.44 to -1.76, R -1.40 to -1.73)
Toe Angle: -0.06 0.10 ( factory : F Toe Out 0.9mm or 1/8" to 1/16" to Toe In 1.5mm, R Toe Out 0.3mm to Toe In 3.7mm ) GT6 values : F -0.22 to 0.10, R -0.02 to 0.26 range.


Suspension - Bilstein Damptronic with Stock Ride Height + Factory Nissan Street / Daily Driving Alignment - Personal Setup
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 110 110
Spring Rate: 9.82 5.36
Dampers (Compression): 5 6
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.3 1.4 ( factory : F -1.44 to -1.76, R -1.40 to -1.73)
Toe Angle: -0.15 0.15 ( factory : F Toe Out 0.9mm or 1/8" to 1/16" to Toe In 1.5mm, R Toe Out 0.3mm to Toe In 3.7mm ) GT6 values : F -0.22 to 0.10, R -0.02 to 0.26 range.


Suspension - Bilstein Damptronic with Stock Ride Height + Factory Nissan Sports / Track Alignment - Personal Setup
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 110 110
Spring Rate: 9.82 5.36
Dampers (Compression): 5 6
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.8 1.7 ( factory : F -1.44 to -1.76, R -1.40 to -1.73)
Toe Angle: -0.22 0.00 ( factory : F Toe Out 0.9mm or 1/8" to 1/16" to Toe In 1.5mm, R Toe Out 0.3mm to Toe In 3.7mm ) GT6 values : F -0.22 to 0.10, R -0.02 to 0.26 range.



AERO:
FRONT : 20 ( Fixed )
REAR : 20 ( Fixed )


Brake Balance:
6/8 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 6/8, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I recommend to run 6/8 for ABS 1.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 6/8 brake balance as starting point.

​

Notes :
The Nissan GTR is one of the car that I have so many in the garage Ever since GT5, I had about 20 of these at all times and in GT6, I have about 10 or so now, all are replicas.

This one is the most basic replica, with stock tune and some corrections on power, suspension and weight distribution.

Power has been reduced to 473HP / 480PS to reflect official power as tested on Best Motoring, weight at 1740kg ( official curb weight value ) and weight distribution at 55/45 - as measured from corner weight.

I researched quite a lot to find the CBA-R35 GTR 1st gen spring rate, then I stumbled a GTR owner who had a chance to speak with one of the Nissan GTR key engineer during a special GTR promo event. He posted the spring rate, many doubted him, but after doing more research on later model year spring rate increase and the NISMO package, I decided to believe and used it for this replica build.

Stock spring rate : F 550lb/in and R 300lb/in, this translate to F 9.82kg/mm and R 5.36kg/mm ( rounded for GT6 ) Stock ride height is retained, with damper has been tweaked for optimum handling balance and ARB to reduce push on entry, soft but not harsh. The Nissan GTR spring rate gets higher/changed every model year from 2008 onwards.

Camber and toe uses early GTR factory manual alignment presets, later models have 3 preset, daily city driving, sports and track. The changes are very minor, slightly higher camber and similar toe range. For this replica, I provided 2 preset, daily/city/street and sports/track. I obtained these from GTR forum, taken from early gen GTR manual. Another 2 are my own personal setup based on the factory alignment. Try all of them and notice the difference, pick one that suits you best, or simply play around with the value range.

I mainly tested the car at Tsukuba and Motegi Road Course. These 2 tracks have been the proving grounds for the GTR on Best Motoring show.

Keiichi Tsuchiya posted 1:02.125 lap time at Tsukuba on stock GTR with Dunlop OEM tires. Aim for this time or better.
In 2009, MCR owned Nissan GTR '09 model, in stock form, driven by Keiichi Tsuchiya posted a best lap of 1:01.931 at Tsukuba My test lap was 1:01.4xxx on 2nd lap run using my personal setup sports/track alignment preset.

Naoki Hattori posted 2:07.600 lap time at Motegi Road Course on stock GTR with Dunlop OEM - SP Sport 600 DSST tires. My test lap was 2:07.4xxx on 1st lap run using my personal setup street/daily driving alignment preset.

If you want added challenge, run the car at Nordschleife and aim to beat 7:26.700, driven by the legend Toshio Suzuki ( 480PS/1740kg ) back in 2008.

ENJOY

 

[TexRex]

Well, wait no more I have updated both - GPRM Toyota GT86 GT4 and Nissan GTR 07 Replica

Faaaaaaaaaantastic! So Comfort Soft seems to be the way to go to replicate realistic grip for this car? (Not entirely surprising, but still a little bit.) Given my 7:49 on the Nordschleife on Comfort Medium (albeit 100% limited no oil change), the '11 record should be dust.

Absolutely spectacular. First hot lap as-is came in at 7:41.596 using the first setup. The brake balance is just a little aggressive for the 'Ring so I adjusted it down to 5/6 and worked my way down to a 7:33.982 ('11 record was 7:34.xxx). I'll play around with some of the factory adjustability to get it suited most to my taste but it's a testament to the capability of the stock (truly stock) car. Thank you so much for your efforts @Ridox2JZGTE

 

[phil_75]

I used to race everything on RS tyres.
I used to buy a car and just upgrade everything on it without even thinking.
Don't get me wrong it can still be fun and have great racing but...

About a year after GT5 came out and i'd raced everything and anything i just for something different to do took a Ferrari 599 out stock, something i'd never do, wow!

It was like a whole new game!
It was so much deeper than i'd ever thought, all the stuff from the license tests suddenly made sense.
There was no more endless grip and not being punished for being off line.
Weight shift, trail braking, lift off oversteer etc etc...
It was and still is magical!

Going back to RS tyres and fully modded everything it just feels so muted, dull and uninspiring.
Every car in each class, MR, FF, FR feel almost the same with very little difference between them whereas stock you can tell even minute differences between each car.

If you've not tried it, you don't know what you are missing.
At first it felt as if the cars were driving on ice and felt so unrealistic but its just your senses used to the extremely unreal grip levels of the full modded cars.
Stock cars coming with SH tyres i used to think had way too little grip, now i think they have too much.
It takes a few hours for your brain to calibrate the new grip levels but when you get there it is a hallelujah moment!

Anyway, does anyone know which tyres were used on the GT6 Ford Focus ST in that Goodwood hillclimb head to head with The (ex) Stig?

I got a 1.00 without any big effort on the stock CS it comes with (DS3 used) and i never use that track.
Edit 1.01.5 with CM first try.
Edit, 1.03.2 with CH.
He got 1.02.23 in GT6.
Stig got 1.02.13 in Real car.

I'm guessing he was using CH tyres as they said he'd been practicing.???