Do you think Gran Turismo would be better if developed for the PC?

[Turkey :D]

I run GRID through Bootcamp and Windows 7 x64 on my MacBook Pro @1280x800 with 2xMSAA and it still runs faster and looks better than the Xbox 360 version. Mind you, this computer isn't meant for gaming, it's my school machine.. you can make a much faster and cheaper desktop PC these days, for maybe 500 or 600 dollars. Keep in mind though, a PC is much more useful than a gaming console, plus you typically get more hard drive space.. so I think it's worth it.

Here's a good link with an example of a powerful budget gaming PC.
http://www.hardware-revolution.com/budget-gaming-pc-q4-2010/

I think Gran Turismo 5 would be a great candidate for a PC sim. It's got the good underlying physics engine. On the PC it's easy to modify your games. The ability to add cars and custom tracks to it like for rFactor and GTR2 would be really awesome. Also, the PC has better support for peripherals. You could navigate the GT5 menus faster with a mouse and use practically any kind of controller you wanted.

 

[dj4monie]

Last thing I want is a game dominated by those with next to no social life, expensive gear change/wheel setups and cockpits with large LCD screens.

That is the majority of the rFactor, GTEvo, GT2, Race '07 community. The ones with out that stuff are poor, broke and lonely (Funky Vibe!).

 

[suparstarx]

If you guys think PC isn't that much better than console graphics, you guys are looking at the wrong stuff.

Multiplatform games like Grid and Dirt 2 look better on PC but that's not the limit of what PC gaming can bust out.

Crysis still looks 10x better than most new console FPS games and it came out one year after PS3.

Witcher 2 is PC exclusive and it's going to crank up a lot of juice also. You can google some of the images for it, it's a fantasy RPG I think.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/10/nov/wit4b.jpg
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/10/nov/wit5b.jpg
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/10/nov/wit6b.jpg
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/10/nov/wit7b.jpg

Gran Turismo 5 would've definitely looked like real life if it was developed for PC, but alas we can't have the best of both worlds. GT5 is as good as it can be, being limited by the Playstation 3 hardware.

The extra 3D and PS Eye stuff is good compensation.

 

[objp]

Last thing I want is a game dominated by those with next to no social life, expensive gear change/wheel setups and cockpits with large LCD screens.

That is the majority of the rFactor, GTEvo, GT2, Race '07 community. The ones with out that stuff are poor, broke and lonely (Funky Vibe!).

Common misconception.

 

[ChromeBallz]

Crysis is the only PC game that looks better then Killzone 2 witch is a PS3 game

There's a good reason for that: PC games nowadays are 99% console ports. They are made to run on the 360 and PS3 aswell as the PC.

Crysis was the last PC exclusive, hence it looks so much better than anything else, even today, since it is not limited by console hardware. Pretty much all PC games thereafter though ARE limited by PS3/360 hardware since they have to run on consoles aswell. On the flipside, most games run extremely well even on PC's that are a few years old.

If GT5 was exclusively developed for the PC, it would most definately look at least 10 times better than anything you see on the console today, though that goes for every PC exclusive.

Next year we'll see the new "next-gen" tech being revealed because the Xbox 720 is coming "soon". Id Tech 5 (Rage engine) can be upscaled quite a bit according to Carmack, and i'm expecting some very good things from Unreal Engine 4. You'll be amazed by how far ahead those technologies are and how well the PC can handle them.

 

[Bigbazz]

I would say that Bad Company 2 looks better than Crysis while on the PC, it is nothing short of amazing on the PC, the high resolutions and better texture filters make such a difference

 

[kashkash7867]

Technically - yes

Sales wise? - hell no

 

[ChromeBallz]

I would say that Bad Company 2 looks better than Crysis while on the PC, it is nothing short of amazing on the PC, the high resolutions and better texture filters make such a difference

Having played both on max settings i'd have to disagree, even if just for the fact that BC2's environment is not as interactive as Crysis'. Going from one to the other it's kind of jarring to take a leap back and not see the plants move when you touch them, and stuff like that. Crysis also has destruction on vegitation and to a lesser degree on buildings, but where BC2 does it in a scripted way, Crysis handles it procedurally. Major difference.

That, and BC2 runs slower than Crysis at max detail, even though it doesn't look as good. Capital crime. Crysis also has bigger levels - Compare Assault or Armored Warfare to any level in BC2, even Africa Harbour is smaller.

 

[Bigbazz]

Crysis is bigger, but to be honest when i saw Bad Company 2 on my friends PC it was the first time i had been amazed by graphics since i played crysis, i run it on my computer at max settings, though it gets a little shaky at times it runs pretty nicely and does look amazing. But there are flaws in the graphics of crysis and while i dont disagree with what you say about the destruction etc i think that if you're just looking at what you see, not how you can interact, bad company 2 looks better.

By all means though, Crysis is still one of the best looking games around, and probably my all time favourite shooter.

 

[athlonix]

look at 13 pages i think it's time to say yes the PC version would be far better, graphically and probably even physics wise as well..

the argument of a ps3 being better than a PC is BS. consoles are scaled down pcs.
as for graphics this crysis/bfbc talk the simple answer is most ports are better looking than the console counterparts, arkham asylum looks much better. a few rushed over version look the same or worse, but it's extrmely rare..

i spent a bit on my pc this year but it will last me probably 5 years before it needs work. how can you even compare a console to a pc is beyond me, i'm running ATi at the moment and i have 24x Anti antanalizing and 16x anisoptropic filtering with 2358x1950 blah blah blah, point being is with that amount of power no console can match a pc, sure a workstation is pants but a gaming pc is far better than a console. and you even argue about graphics is like arguing with a house brick.

GT5 would make more money on PS3 or even xbox than on a PC but the PC version would be the best version without a doubt, especially if the door was left open to the community to mod it.

if were going to argue the toss over would gt5 be better on pc please continue but if were gonna whine about console being specced better, and having better graphics STFU. and someone lock this thread.


you'll have to excuse my rudeness but after reading the whole 13 pages i'm infuriated by blind sightedness of some ps3 owner to the truth and arguing against is just plain dumb.

 

[pay2021]

No doubt, besides the graphic part, as the members has point, you may think the processor power of the PC, what minds that? better phisycs.

Edit: and yes, in PC, GT5 wouldn't profit

 

[realwerewolf]

Last thing I want is a game dominated by those with next to no social life, expensive gear change/wheel setups and cockpits with large LCD screens.

That is the majority of the rFactor, GTEvo, GT2, Race '07 community. The ones with out that stuff are poor, broke and lonely (Funky Vibe!).

The ignorance is amazing. Everyone I know who games on PC is older, has jobs, family, and is more socialize then most younger console gamers who still live at home and only socialize mainly online.........

 

[realwerewolf]

To be honest I like Shift more than Forza 3 and GT5 for incredible sense of driving. Even Cobalt SS has very complex behaviour.

AI sucks, and so driving of highest rank supercars, but looks like every racing game has it own flaws

Shift mroe complex driving? BWHAHAHAHA, BWHAHAHAHA, LMAO. no.

 

[Zelaieta]

Simply, YES

 

[realwerewolf]

Crysis only game that looks betetr then killzone 2 on PS3? More ignorance: Pc games that blow killzone 2 away:

Crysis
Bad Company 2 looks stunning on PC
Metro 2033
Mafia II
Dirt 2 (DX11 looks awesome)
Stalker Call of pripyat
Age of conan
ARMA II
far Cry 2 PC
Call of Juarez PC
Gears of War PC

Thats just off the top of my head.

 

[Bigbazz]

F1 2010
GRID
Bioshock
Bioshock 2
Call of Duty MW
Call of Duty MW2
Call of Duty Black Ops
Unreal Tournament 3
Oblivion
Fallout 3
Fallout : New Vegas
Borderlands
Medal of Honor (2010)
Mass Effect
Dragon Age : Origins
James Bond : Blood Stone
Wings of Prey
Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War II


Just a few off the top of my head ^^.

 

[Tommy_861]

Shift mroe complex driving? BWHAHAHAHA, BWHAHAHAHA, LMAO. no.

+1

LOL I am sad I missed that comment about Shift. I would have definitely joined in your laughter!

 

[7HO]

I only got half way through this thread before I got sick of reading comments from people who have no idea about PC gaming.

Sim racing is already superior on a PC and it doesn't require a high spec machine.

It would be better on a PC.
It would have been out earlier because they wouldn't need to compromise or leave stuff out to get it to work. All the advertised features would be included.
The piracy thing is blown out of proportion, so is the virus issue. Both can be avoided.
PC gaming is not dead and no where near as small as some are claiming here. Even very old Sony titles still have a massive online community who are all willing to pay a monthly subscription.
If a monthly subscription is included it ensures both the quality of the community and provides a constant revenue stream for ongoing updates and increased profitability.
Because GT is already so popular if they did switch to PC it would still be big and chances are the PC sim racers who don't currently play it would give it a go, if it was good chances are it would be more successful than on PS3.
If GT5 was on a PC you would have multiscreen and x-sim support.
If PD allowed mods they wouldn't need to develop many of the premium models themselves, the same applies to new tracks. PD would also be able to take this a step further by allowing mods for submission which they would test and perfect before release as an official update.

So the answer is everything about GT would be better on PC unless you are a kid who's Dad doesn't want to put it on his credit card or gets booted for being a nuisance

 

[TeggD]

The game would look and perform better on pc. (very good pc).

The problem is that it would shut out too many players though. The other issues is bugs. The game has massive potential for bugs. A bigger more realistic issue is lack of sales. Hardly anyone buys racing games on PC.

Pros and cons.

 

[realwerewolf]

The game would look and perform better on pc. (very good pc).

The problem is that it would shut out too many players though. The other issues is bugs. The game has massive potential for bugs. A bigger more realistic issue is lack of sales. Hardly anyone buys racing games on PC.

Pros and cons.

No one said they still could not release a Ps3 version along with PC.

 

[zazaza]

no.

Less accessible, more up its own arse.

+1

 

[SavageEvil]

No one said they still could not release a Ps3 version along with PC.

As if Sony likes losing money on software, that will never come to fruition. Kaz as he is will not like the mod community tinkering with his "baby" anyway.

I only got half way through this thread before I got sick of reading comments from people who have no idea about PC gaming.

Sim racing is already superior on a PC and it doesn't require a high spec machine.

It would be better on a PC.
It would have been out earlier because they wouldn't need to compromise or leave stuff out to get it to work. All the advertised features would be included.
The piracy thing is blown out of proportion, so is the virus issue. Both can be avoided.
PC gaming is not dead and no where near as small as some are claiming here. Even very old Sony titles still have a massive online community who are all willing to pay a monthly subscription.
If a monthly subscription is included it ensures both the quality of the community and provides a constant revenue stream for ongoing updates and increased profitability.
Because GT is already so popular if they did switch to PC it would still be big and chances are the PC sim racers who don't currently play it would give it a go, if it was good chances are it would be more successful than on PS3.
If GT5 was on a PC you would have multiscreen and x-sim support.
If PD allowed mods they wouldn't need to develop many of the premium models themselves, the same applies to new tracks. PD would also be able to take this a step further by allowing mods for submission which they would test and perfect before release as an official update.

So the answer is everything about GT would be better on PC unless you are a kid who's Dad doesn't want to put it on his credit card or gets booted for being a nuisance

Because the PC gaming market is bigger than the console gaming market right? You PC guys are confusing things, GT5 was built in spite of the downfalls of PS3. PS3 is not a PC that you can shove a better GPU into or upgrade to more and faster RAM. It's stuck from day one in a mold that one day will be the detriment of programmers as they will exhaust everything the system has to offer. All PS3 games were built within the confines of the PS3, no one dev had a more powerful spec they played to level playing field and you get to see which of them can deliver top notch goods. Not one trying to out horsepower the other and in the end have you opening that wallet.

What I want to hammer into the hard headed PC elitists around here is PS3 with all it's age and weaknesses can output amazing looking graphics and game play, casual gamers don't give a rats ass about how high the resolution is on your PC screen, nor do they care about the power it has. Does the game look pretty, is it fun and how easy is it to grab a controller and start playing it. PC gaming for as ground breaking as it has been, is still a closet love affair. I've seen many a televised PC gaming event of those awesome Quake II games, but still that is not going to get PC gaming the kind of recognition, interest or mass marketing as console gaming. PS2 basically ushered in the era of DVD by itself! PS3 to a lesser extent pretty much did the same for Blu-Ray, killing HD-DVD along the way. Never has PC been that influential, well unless of course it's a Mac.

PC gaming is still relatively small compared to console gaming, case and point walk into Best Buy and see how many people are in the PS3, 360 and Wii section and then check how many are in the PC game section. I have never seen Best Buy throwing promotions about buying any PC game, cell phones get more attention than PC's at retail. WoW is PC largest game by far and that about get's it's own adverts and recently too, over the years there have been adverts at the odd occasion advertising a PC only game. Now it's all console games with PC tagged on the end, and they say that just before the advert ends. Ever wonder why majority of Dev's chose a console over a PC? Console games tend to quickly get lapped up and garner brisk sales in a short time, also exposure to people who would never touch the game if it were PC only.

Someone posted some weird comment about console gamers being less social that PC gamers. That was incredibly funny considering that I have never heard anyone say I'm going over to John's place to play some WoW with him, you hear I'm going to John's to play PS3, 360; even the women get in on it I'm going to Marcia's to do some Wii Fit, it's part of our workout plan. Won't ever hear a PC gamer saying something like that, unless you guy are meeting at the local net cafe, which is off limits to gamers as only apple toting socialites congregate there. Dude seriously your wife thinks you're a nerd for playing games on a PC, no matter how cool you think it is. It's a stigma that's going to stick for quite some time. I think it's artistic to watch someone playing Quake II on a PC, but it's still doesn't compare to laughs of watching someone make an ass of themselves using Kinect and Move in a living room full of fun.

 

[realwerewolf]

Lose money? Tonnes of games on PC make money or they would not be making them.............................

 

[Bigbazz]

The biggest money making game with the highest ammount of players is on the PC, the market is still huge. The well made games will run on all sorts of hardware, while still taking advantage of the top spec pc's

I dont see how pc games are "Less accessible and up its own arse", seems like a very outside and ignorant view. Theres nothing more than FACT when it comes to the idea of computing power and performance of a PC over a console. Consoles are just cheap pc's at the end of the day, and the PS3 is years old.

 

[jaykinch]

I think gt5 would be better on the pc if it was made for the pc then ported for consoles as the game would have more depth
I've found that games seem to be dumbed down for the consoles just the controls have to be sliced apart for starters, and then they need to aim the just pick up and play gamers.

consoles are easy, just pick up and play
PC's pain in the ass need to update this and that then u need to change this setting and that setting.

But i just love PC gaming a lot more once its all set up

 

[Pako]

As if Sony likes losing money on software, that will never come to fruition. Kaz as he is will not like the mod community tinkering with his "baby" anyway.



Because the PC gaming market is bigger than the console gaming market right? You PC guys are confusing things, GT5 was built in spite of the downfalls of PS3. PS3 is not a PC that you can shove a better GPU into or upgrade to more and faster RAM. It's stuck from day one in a mold that one day will be the detriment of programmers as they will exhaust everything the system has to offer. All PS3 games were built within the confines of the PS3, no one dev had a more powerful spec they played to level playing field and you get to see which of them can deliver top notch goods. Not one trying to out horsepower the other and in the end have you opening that wallet.

What I want to hammer into the hard headed PC elitists around here is PS3 with all it's age and weaknesses can output amazing looking graphics and game play, casual gamers don't give a rats ass about how high the resolution is on your PC screen, nor do they care about the power it has. Does the game look pretty, is it fun and how easy is it to grab a controller and start playing it. PC gaming for as ground breaking as it has been, is still a closet love affair. I've seen many a televised PC gaming event of those awesome Quake II games, but still that is not going to get PC gaming the kind of recognition, interest or mass marketing as console gaming. PS2 basically ushered in the era of DVD by itself! PS3 to a lesser extent pretty much did the same for Blu-Ray, killing HD-DVD along the way. Never has PC been that influential, well unless of course it's a Mac.

PC gaming is still relatively small compared to console gaming, case and point walk into Best Buy and see how many people are in the PS3, 360 and Wii section and then check how many are in the PC game section. I have never seen Best Buy throwing promotions about buying any PC game, cell phones get more attention than PC's at retail. WoW is PC largest game by far and that about get's it's own adverts and recently too, over the years there have been adverts at the odd occasion advertising a PC only game. Now it's all console games with PC tagged on the end, and they say that just before the advert ends. Ever wonder why majority of Dev's chose a console over a PC? Console games tend to quickly get lapped up and garner brisk sales in a short time, also exposure to people who would never touch the game if it were PC only.

Someone posted some weird comment about console gamers being less social that PC gamers. That was incredibly funny considering that I have never heard anyone say I'm going over to John's place to play some WoW with him, you hear I'm going to John's to play PS3, 360; even the women get in on it I'm going to Marcia's to do some Wii Fit, it's part of our workout plan. Won't ever hear a PC gamer saying something like that, unless you guy are meeting at the local net cafe, which is off limits to gamers as only apple toting socialites congregate there. Dude seriously your wife thinks you're a nerd for playing games on a PC, no matter how cool you think it is. It's a stigma that's going to stick for quite some time. I think it's artistic to watch someone playing Quake II on a PC, but it's still doesn't compare to laughs of watching someone make an ass of themselves using Kinect and Move in a living room full of fun.

I tend to think of myself as a heavy PC user/enthusiast, whatever...., so it's only natural for me to take these comments as if they are being direct at me. There are some things that you are saying that are very true, but I want to point something out to you before you dilute the topic at hand. The question wasn't "Is GT5 a bad game because it was released on a console", but rather, "Do you think GT would be better if developed for the PC".

It is clear that if better performance, better game play, better quality graphics, better community input, and dedicated servers for online gaming equates into "better", than the answer is simply, Yes, GT would be better if developed for the PC.

It is clear to me that your definition of "better" differs from mine.

You seem to be defending, or qualifying how amazing the PS3, and even with it's limitations, still has amazing output, great game play, ect. I think this is a fine discussion, but that's not what we're talking about here.

 

[7HO]

Because the PC gaming market is bigger than the console gaming market right?

Great start now how about sticking to what I said instead of trying to put words in my mouth.

You PC guys are confusing things,

Followed by an incorrect assumption, you're not very good at this are you?

GT5 was built in spite of the downfalls of PS3. PS3 is not a PC that you can shove a better GPU into or upgrade to more and faster RAM. It's stuck from day one in a mold that one day will be the detriment of programmers as they will exhaust everything the system has to offer. All PS3 games were built within the confines of the PS3, no one dev had a more powerful spec they played to level playing field and you get to see which of them can deliver top notch goods. Not one trying to out horsepower the other and in the end have you opening that wallet.

Ok argue against me by proving my point. So we agree Kaz wouldn't have had to compromise on a PC and he could have made a better game. Fact is Kaz had to compromise and he wish he didn't have to.

What I want to hammer into the hard headed PC elitists around here is PS3 with all it's age and weaknesses can output amazing looking graphics and game play, casual gamers don't give a rats ass about how high the resolution is on your PC screen, nor do they care about the power it has. Does the game look pretty, is it fun and how easy is it to grab a controller and start playing it. PC gaming for as ground breaking as it has been, is still a closet love affair. I've seen many a televised PC gaming event of those awesome Quake II games, but still that is not going to get PC gaming the kind of recognition, interest or mass marketing as console gaming. PS2 basically ushered in the era of DVD by itself! PS3 to a lesser extent pretty much did the same for Blu-Ray, killing HD-DVD along the way. Never has PC been that influential, well unless of course it's a Mac.

No one is denying the PS3 can produce a great game, the question is would GT5 be better on a PC and the answer is most definitely because Kaz has admitted the hardware has compromised the game. You are just providing evidence that you don't really know what you are talking about.

PC gaming is still relatively small compared to console gaming, case and point walk into Best Buy and see how many people are in the PS3, 360 and Wii section and then check how many are in the PC game section. I have never seen Best Buy throwing promotions about buying any PC game, cell phones get more attention than PC's at retail. WoW is PC largest game by far and that about get's it's own adverts and recently too, over the years there have been adverts at the odd occasion advertising a PC only game. Now it's all console games with PC tagged on the end, and they say that just before the advert ends. Ever wonder why majority of Dev's chose a console over a PC? Console games tend to quickly get lapped up and garner brisk sales in a short time, also exposure to people who would never touch the game if it were PC only.

You are seriously hilarious, so because you live in a sheltered world without technology and the TV told you something you believe it. The majority of PC games are not bought off a shelf. The PC game industry and gamers realised a long time ago that because the gamer only owns a license they don't need a hardcopy and the internet can be used to sell and download games. Hardcopies are absolutely inferior to services like steam for the purchase and management of your games. If your disc gets damaged get your wallet out but if you bought it on steam and in 10 years time you feel like playing it again you just log in and download.

Someone posted some weird comment about console gamers being less social that PC gamers. That was incredibly funny considering that I have never heard anyone say I'm going over to John's place to play some WoW with him, you hear I'm going to John's to play PS3, 360; even the women get in on it I'm going to Marcia's to do some Wii Fit, it's part of our workout plan. Won't ever hear a PC gamer saying something like that, unless you guy are meeting at the local net cafe, which is off limits to gamers as only apple toting socialites congregate there. Dude seriously your wife thinks you're a nerd for playing games on a PC, no matter how cool you think it is. It's a stigma that's going to stick for quite some time. I think it's artistic to watch someone playing Quake II on a PC, but it's still doesn't compare to laughs of watching someone make an ass of themselves using Kinect and Move in a living room full of fun.

Go back and watch the Simpsons or some other stereotypical show, obviously it is how you educate yourself. And why do you keep going on about Quake II as if it is the only game you have ever seen on a PC. If you were paying attention we were talking about Sim Racing first and foremost. If you take iRacing for example almost everyone playing that is an adult considering you need a credit card to play, many of the guys who play it get out there and race in real life, a number of race drivers and teams use it as a tool but unlike console titles they actually do when they say it about iRacer or even RFactor.

You see your second mistake was assuming I am a PC gamer, I am not a gamer at all, the only time I play games is Racing and even at that I am not hardcore or fall into any camp. But I talk to a lot of gamers, most of them are successful, some of them are guys you might read about in music magazines, some work for the government, my best friend who is trying to get me to play Star Wars with him and has played it religiously for the last 4 years has travelled the world and met people he plays Star Wars and become good friends with. He has a child and is seperated but his partner didn't leave him over a game because she plays it. Many of his friends are married and their wives play too. Are you married? I don't think so, my guess is you got that one from TV too. My wife comes home from work and the first thing she does is log into facebook, my ex lives on facebook and almost every girl I grew up with is on facebook every day and what do you think they all do on there? They play games. The vast majority of women I have met in my life spend more time playing games than I do so I doubt they think I'm a nerd.

My wife only hates it when I buy a new racing game for the PS3 because she knows she will miss out on some of her shows for a week.

Maybe this new generation will stick to games on consoles and take whatever rubbish is dished up to them as long as it is well marketed, maybe they will continue to believe whatever is told to them and never learn to think for themselves, perhaps they will never realise there is a whole world outside their house because it isn't found in a mall.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I am a PC gamer that plays some console games. In my ideal world, since console games are developed on PCs for consoles I would like to see consoles adopt one (standardized) operating system similar to Windows. If games are developed for PCs by PCs, with multiple hardware and configurations supported, then configured and optimized for consoles, there could be a "best of both worlds" situation. *Games could still be developed for one specific platform.

Currently PC games are almost exclusively Console ports (horribly optimized versions.) Consoles are all the same so they are easy to optimize for (they are hardware and software limited.) PC gamers want options and customization and Console ported games do not provide this.

Then there are games like GT5 which is horribly optimized for the sole, exclusive, console it was developed for. I am sure there are many people who would love to play GT5 on the highest settings with no shadow, rendering, tearing, etc, (GRAPHICAL) issues (I am sure there are some PD employees that would love this as well.) The only way to do this is to allow for some type of hardware customization and PCs are the only way to do this.

 

[frankwer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g4QWVkkidI <- GT5 on PC would have better frame rate, better physic fidelity and support 3-6 monitors + better support for all kinds of "equipment".

As it is now, consoles don`t cut it, the racing games are to sterile.

 

[Aureus]

Others have addressed your whole post Savage. So I'm just going to hit the bits I find funny.

Because the PC gaming market is bigger than the console gaming market right?

No one said it was.

What I want to hammer into the hard headed PC elitists around here is PS3 with all it's age and weaknesses can output amazing looking graphics and game play, casual gamers don't give a rats ass about how high the resolution is on your PC screen, nor do they care about the power it has.

That's great and all. All these 'PC elitists' around here aren't trying to make you think of the PS3 as weak or ugly or this or that or the other. We're laughing at and trying to correct post after post by people who spout off things as if they are gospel when they're actually spouting out some of the most ignorant things we've ever read. Ignorance isn't a bad thing by the way, it just means they don't know what it is they're talking about it. Its kind of horrifying really to see someone saying that the PC uses 'tacked on' multiplayer when the PC is the platform that invented multiplayer and continues to push it forwards in ways Consoles don't even try to. Games like Tribes invented the multiplayer focused FPS and the team based shooter. Everything a console does is a left-over or hand-me-down from the PC. That's just the way it is and has been. And that's fine. The console is easy to play and pick up. But saying the PC is the inferior platform is just simply wrong.

Does the game look pretty, is it fun and how easy is it to grab a controller and start playing it. PC gaming for as ground breaking as it has been, is still a closet love affair. I've seen many a televised PC gaming event of those awesome Quake II games, but still that is not going to get PC gaming the kind of recognition, interest or mass marketing as console gaming. PS2 basically ushered in the era of DVD by itself! PS3 to a lesser extent pretty much did the same for Blu-Ray, killing HD-DVD along the way. Never has PC been that influential, well unless of course it's a Mac.

You've seen televised Quake II games? Whaaa? People televise a game that was made 13 years ago? And what are you on about, the PC has never been influential? Are you just off your rocker? The PC, at a minimum, is influential in the aspect that everything your console does is something a PC did first. The PS2 did not usher in the DVD, though the PS3 did help with Blu-Ray, there were quite a lot of other factors out there leading to death of HD-DVD. And whats this about Macs? They're PCs too.

PC gaming is still relatively small compared to console gaming, case and point walk into Best Buy and see how many people are in the PS3, 360 and Wii section and then check how many are in the PC game section. I have never seen Best Buy throwing promotions about buying any PC game, cell phones get more attention than PC's at retail.

PC players buy their games online more and more and more. The retail segment of the market is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Also the only sales numbers that are reported are the retail sales. Accurate sales numbers for PC gaming haven't been reported in years.

Oh and Best Buy throws a midnight launch party every time there is a WoW expansion. I don't really like WoW but there it is. They're advertising for the latest one right now in their store.

Someone posted some weird comment about console gamers being less social that PC gamers. That was incredibly funny considering that I have never heard anyone say I'm going over to John's place to play some WoW with him, you hear I'm going to John's to play PS3, 360; even the women get in on it I'm going to Marcia's to do some Wii Fit, it's part of our workout plan.

You realize personnel anecdotes are the single worst form of evidence right? And that they mean absolutely nothing?

Won't ever hear a PC gamer saying something like that

LAN parties... look them up...

Dude seriously your wife thinks you're a nerd for playing games on a PC, no matter how cool you think it is. It's a stigma that's going to stick for quite some time.

You think I'm a nerd? Am I still in some silly high school where I or anyone else is supposed to care if you think I'm a nerd? Hell even in High School I didn't care...