Does having to "Grind" to Earn diminish the game for you?

[Tornado]

It's only a grind if it's not enjoyable, if it's not enjoyable then there's something wrong with the way one plays/ reasons for playing in my view.

This is the most overused, misapplied and absurd arguments that this game could have to defend it. So I always have to wonder why so many people think it holds any value and constantly use it.

This, i think, is a tradition for the Gran Turismo serie... a sort of a trademark... a philosophy that i wish more people here would understand, instead of trying to make it (Kaz/PD/the game) conform to what junk can be found out there...

This is one is almost as bad.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Loving the people trying to find ways to make excuses for the grind.

If you play like I did and make it as difficult as possible there isn't any true grinding necessary until you get around level 30-32. But unless you just want some fun for a few weeks and then buy something else to play, you will eventually have to grind.

It's not really the "grinding" that is the problem. Some amount of grinding has always been there, as there's lots of cars to buy. It does take longer now, but that in itself still doesn't ruin it.

I would have no complaints about having to run lots of races to get the cars I want, IF they had given me lots of ways to do it. Expand the expert tier to include triple the number of races. Make them all pay well. Make more of them series(and let me save mid-series). Make the enduros pay better. Custom events(that pay ok) would be great. You spend most of your time at the end of the game, so that's where there should be the most fun to be had(and enough pay to make the fun worth your time).

 

[Morgoth_666]

Dbl post sorry...

I forgot to add one of the best ways to help: Make online pay roughly the same as offline. Actually, it should probably pay a bit better since most of us can't expect to win nearly every race we enter like you do offline. It's kind of stupid having to stop having fun with the game in order to go make money, that's what I have a real job for.

 

[GasolineJunkie]

I never really had to grind in A spec, partly because of the Seasonals. I forgot what level I am but its the one where you're allowed to race the 9 hour Tsukuba. I really wouldn't mind grinding in A Spec because I like doing certain races over and over anyway.

What I do have a problem with is grinding in B Spec. I think I'm level 22 and I can't do any other races and I'm not close to being at the next level. I have to keep doing the same races over and over to advance into other series. I refuse to do that. B spec is boring to me as it is, but having to redo the same races is over the top. It's against my religion to grind in Bspec.

 

[wrx'02]

This is the most overused, misapplied and absurd arguments that this game could have to defend it. So I always have to wonder why so many people think it holds any value and constantly use it.

No, it's not. "Grind" means you don't enjoy it.

I love "racing" in GT5, so the fact that I get money for doing races over and over is just a bonus.
I would race over and over even if there were no payouts, because It's a racing game and that's what it's for.
How else should you earn credits in a racing game other than racing. Do you want them to include a virtual casino to win money? I just don't get it.

 

[Exorcet]

Wanting it fast would be the main reason you grind

Getting all the cars and reaching level 40 is possible without grinding
it will just take a long time
and I dont have a problem with that

I must ask again, what is fast? I don't want the cars fast. You just don't mind getting them slow.

Taking a long time to get the cars is something I have a problem with, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

15 laps suzuka circuit 20 monza
etc. as long its around 30mins to an hour of racing
with 16 players will pay out big from 4th place up
its not as fast and easy as aspec races but its funner
to me anyways

I've done 20 lap/1hour races. Have yet to see 16 cars in one of them, also have yet to see a large number of people come into the room soon after it opens.

I've already said I enjoy online. Enjoyment isn't the issue, it's the poor payout. Even taken to the extreme, full room with 20 laps, you get a pathetic amount of money. 250,000/30 minutes (not including, waiting for room to fill up, practice, qualify, settings, etc) compared to 850,000/30 minutes offline. If you're trying to get a fairly expensive car, offline is the only option.

You can get to level 25ish without serious grinding right? I think that's where the casual gamer is invited to stop. Past that, it gets hardcore...

I guess I'm trying to say once you do most of the A-spec with out major grinding, there isn't much left to achieve for gamer Joe. He's got a Lambo, he's got some cash: time for a new game.

If you are gamer Jim, though, you need that X2010 Prototype, you need golds on every event, you need all 1000-odd cars, etc. Level 25+ was made for people like Jim; made for perfectionists.

This make good gameplay for both the casual and the hardcore gamer. Joe can stop at 25 without missing out on too much, but Jim gets to work his way all to 40.

I guess it's about what you seek to achieve in the game. If 100%ing it your thing, months of grinding is waiting for you. If not, good for you: you're not missing too much.

Anyone follow?

I don't follow.

A. Built in unlock code lets me have everything I want, and lets the other guy dump tons of hours in GT Mode.

B. Levels are pointless. Completion % is pointless. I just want to drive. Give me the cars and let me race, the perfectionists can have their stats.

 

[Tornado]

No, it's not. "Grind" means you don't enjoy it.

Exactly. And that is PD's fault. Not the player's fault.

I love "racing" in GT5, so the fact that I get money for doing races over and over is just a bonus.
I would race over and over even if there were no payouts, because It's a racing game and that's what it's for.

This is fantastic for you. Why does that standard apply to people who disagree, and why does that standard make them "wrong" when this is the first game in the series that has these problems?

How else should you earn credits in a racing game other than racing. Do you want them to include a virtual casino to win money? I just don't get it.

This is basically missing the point on purpose.

 

[wrx'02]

Exactly. And that is PD's fault. Not the player's fault.


This is fantastic for you. Why does that standard apply to people who disagree, and why does that standard make them "wrong" when this is the first game in the series that has these problems?


This is basically missing the point on purpose.

I never said you were "wrong" and that you had to agree with my point of view... I just don't agree with yours.
My point is that there are plenty of us who are quite happy the way it is, so yes, it's fantastic for us. It sucks for you that you can't just enjoy the game as it is and feel the need to constantly bash a game that you probably shouldn't be playing in the first place.
Nobody is "at fault", neither players or GT. You either like what they made or you don't. If you don't, then stop playing and you will have no other reasons to complain.
Find a different game that addresses your issues and go play it.

 

[strngz0731]

I mean no disrespect to, nor am I directly insulting any individual, but I figure I'd share two thoughts I have on the concept of "grinding"...

1) It's only "grinding" if you see it that way.
Yeah, sending my B-Spec Bobs off hundreds of times around the same sets of races in order to afford the expensive cars is not very exciting. Running around that kart track over and over in a Kei-car isn't much more exciting. However, for me there's still fun and entertainment to spare doing so. Am I "grinding"? Someone else might say I am, but as I don't necessarily see it that way I would say that I am not "grinding"...

2) Isn't racing inherently full of "grinding"?
I mean, let's be real. The crux of racing - outside of the Drag and Rally disciplines - fundamentally involves repeatedly driving around and around (and around and around and around and around and around) a closed path. If you have issues with the repetition involved in GT5, maybe playing a game whose premise if based on repetition isn't the best fit...

Sure, the credit/level system could be better, but worrying and/or complaining about it won't improve things. If you're worried about the GT5 "grind", you have two fundamental options - change the way you look at the game, or change the way (or what) you play.

(Just my $0.02 on the subject.)

Peace...

 

[BadgerPoker]

Grinding has, in some ways, been a part of every GT. It's just that GT5 takes it a little further than what many of us are used. The pricing of certain cars and the amount of prize money given for each event is pretty disproportionate.

So yes, it does. I wish there was an easier way to make money. But I still find ways to enjoy the game, especially when I'm not after certain high-priced race cars to add to my collection.

I agree, from GT4, income is slower and the cars can cost a lot more. I haven't cleared Expert Series with all golds yet because of the Historic Racing Car Cup. The car I'd like to use for this is 20 mil.

In GT4, I did the easy Capri Rally so many times for money because I could win a 250,000 credit car and sell each time and it didn't feel like grinding because it didn't require as many runs and it was fun. I don't even remember what the event payout was. I just knew, run it 4 times = 1 million credits. I'm trying to play the GT mode game like I did GT4 and it's not working for me.

Now, most of my time with GT5 is spent with WRS, so I'm just using it a different way to make it fun.

 

[Tornado]

I never said you were "wrong" and that you had to agree with my point of view

Except you were responding to a point I made criticizing that exact viewpoint, so you kinda were.

This bit here only adds to that:

It sucks for you that you can't just enjoy the game as it is and feel the need to constantly bash a game that you probably shouldn't be playing in the first place.

Because you are saying that since I don't play the game the way you do, I apparently should never have gotten involved in the series in the first place.

Nobody is "at fault", neither players or GT.

No. It is pretty easy to show why PD is at fault for the grind. See the bit above that mentions how GT5 is the first game in the series with these problems.

You either like what they made or you don't. If you don't, then stop playing and you will have no other reasons to complain.
Find a different game that addresses your issues and go play it.

Try not to put quite so many words into people's mouths when discussing these sorts of things.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

you are right. Grinding is a part of most racing games, but to a much, much lesser degree.

My strategy now is get all my high priced cars out of the way first and fast as possible. Then hopefully, I can enjoy the game. Just buying little trinkets I find here and there.

I never had to grind in PGR2 or 3. Hell, even with Forza 2 I never had to grind because the money scale was reasonable.

Forza 3 I would have had to grind if not for the storefront. Being a relatively known fast guy has it's advantages on that game because people were willing to pay for tunes. But if I didn't have that, and were inclined to play the game, I would have had to grind some.

GT5 took it to a whole new level of grind. Lots of things were/are wrong with GT5 (no leaderboards/class system being my biggest gripe) but I think it was the grinding that was the straw that broke my back with the game.

It comes off as complete arrogance from a developer to make in game content so tedious to get you have to be a madman to obtain it all. PGR2 was ultra difficult to get platinum in every thing. That was rewarding difficult game play. Grinding is nether difficult nor rewarding. Just pisses you off knowing you've forked over your hard earned cash for a game that doesn't want you to enjoy it in full unless you're willing to devote month after month after month to grind out the necessary credits to do so.

 

[stoney71]

I never had to grind in PGR2 or 3. Hell, even with Forza 2 I never had to grind because the money scale was reasonable.

Forza 3 I would have had to grind if not for the storefront. Being a relatively known fast guy has it's advantages on that game because people were willing to pay for tunes. But if I didn't have that, and were inclined to play the game, I would have had to grind some.

GT5 took it to a whole new level of grind. Lots of things were/are wrong with GT5 (no leaderboards/class system being my biggest gripe) but I think it was the grinding that was the straw that broke my back with the game.

It comes off as complete arrogance from a developer to make in game content so tedious to get you have to be a madman to obtain it all. PGR2 was ultra difficult to get platinum in every thing. That was rewarding difficult game play. Grinding is nether difficult nor rewarding. Just pisses you off knowing you've forked over your hard earned cash for a game that doesn't want you to enjoy it in full unless you're willing to devote month after month after month to grind out the necessary credits to do so.

I agree with your last paragraph. Some people seem to actually like grinding, or at least it lets them feel like they are "earning" something, but it seems most people think grinding is boring and a waste of time. Where I think PD dropped the ball is they should have been able to create a game that everyone (hardcore gamer or not) could find enjoyable and still be able to access all of the game content in a reasonable amount of time. Other game developers do just that in a fraction of the time PD spent on developing GT5. Some people like spending months and months playing a game, but other people don't. It seems as if PD and some of the hardcore gamers who like grinding (or whatever YOU may call it) think that the people who don't shouldn't be able to access all the cars just because they don't want to devote so much time to GT5. That is like a sort punishment for not devoting the amount of time THEY say you should. The one thing that seems to get the most criticism is the broken credit/xp allotment system in GT5. I think PD should spend some time fixing their broken economic system or do away with it altogether. There are much better ways to add replayability.

 

[AmyUD06]

How about an option for "I don't feel like the game forces me to grind to enjoy it" ?

 

[Akwaaba]

The balance between credits earnt and the price of the cars is, in my opinion, wrong. For someone wanting to collect all of the cars, then they need to raise a huge amount of credits, its got to be more than 250,000,000 credits. The most you can currently win on one non endurance race is 160,000 credits.

Even with the seasonals (which I'm happy with getting) then the number of different races with winnings of around or more than 100,000 is relatively few something like 14, and the 5 for the dream car championship, and 2 for the American Championship. Do all of these 10 times each and you can afford only one of the 20 million credit cars. That seems crazy to me ... so I'm very unlikely to get another 20 million credit car, which I find a bit annoying!

 

[ultraviolet]

i just get in a fave car, do some A-Spec racing and buy another car and tune it with my winnings.
why grind to get new cars when you could be injoying the driving and getting new cars at the same time?

this game to me isn't about 'finishing' it in the shortest amount of time.

 

[Exorcet]

this game to me isn't about 'finishing' it in the shortest amount of time.

But neither is grinding. I can't see the reasoning behind "getting the game over with". I grind so I can get into the game, which requires that A-Spec be put aside, and I have everything I want for online.

 

[sinbad]

I've done most of the A-spec events, but not the endurance races, I've only ever done 1 B-spec race. I've done all the Special Events, and 90% of the seasonal events that come along, usually just the once, occasionally 2 or 3 times if it's a fun event or track.

I have to accept that I won't be buying all of the expensive cars in the game, don't think I've paid more than a million for anything. There are still lots of cars I'm yet to even try, but I'll continue to enjoy it as I do.

I feel like I'm getting my money's worth from the game, and that's all that matters to me. There is no "finishing" of a driving game imho. You drive and race cars for fun - that is the point, and in GT5 it actually is very good fun.

This rushing to get it over and done with is puzzling. It's like you've gone out for a meal to a world famous restaurant, and ordered something famously popular from the menu (something to impress the friends with tales of), but when it comes you realise you're not sure about it and really just want to skip to dessert. However, since you've paid all this money you hold your breath and force the food down as quickly as possible. So whilst people at other tables are savouring each bite, you're making hard work of it to get it done with asap, and shouldn't really have ordered it at all.

 

[RazorsEdge]

Well, I voted for "I don't Mind it" before thinking.
Because it's really difficult to earn money in GT5, I have to grind money all the time.

 

[VBR]

You don't 'have to grind' in this game at all, that is unless you're obsessed with getting to level 40 & I can't understand why anyone would want to do that as imo it's utterly pointless! I've not done 1 grind, have 20 million credits & can afford whatever car I want, I'm happy enough with that.

 

[FishHunters]

The balance between credits earnt and the price of the cars is, in my opinion, wrong. For someone wanting to collect all of the cars, then they need to raise a huge amount of credits, its got to be more than 250,000,000 credits. The most you can currently win on one non endurance race is 160,000 credits.

Even with the seasonals (which I'm happy with getting) then the number of different races with winnings of around or more than 100,000 is relatively few something like 14, and the 5 for the dream car championship, and 2 for the American Championship. Do all of these 10 times each and you can afford only one of the 20 million credit cars. That seems crazy to me ... so I'm very unlikely to get another 20 million credit car, which I find a bit annoying!

And that is JUST buying cars. What about an engine overhaul, or tuning various cars. I had done so much "grinding" originally that my Minolta started losing HP even after an oil change. It needed a $500k cr overhaul. That's an additional 5 100k races. They really need to increase the credit system 10 fold.

 

[FishHunters]

You don't 'have to grind' in this game at all, that is unless you're obsessed with getting to level 40 & I can't understand why anyone would want to do that as imo it's utterly pointless! I've not done 1 grind, have 20 million credits & can afford whatever car I want, I'm happy enough with that.

You're right you don't have to grind if you don't want a lot of cars. If you take the standards and few premiums the rewards give you, you'll be fine. That begs the question then "Why did PD put 1000 cars in the game" if they didn't want us to sample most of them? Why did they give us the option to tune and restore for huge prices? To fully tune one car it'll cost you more than you can win in a single Extreme level race. Something is wrong with that picture.