drift faster than grip

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Originally posted by pergatory
I'm glad you enjoy driving but drifting isn't just instinct, it's the entire sport, including physics and tuning. Those are two separate things by the way, learning the physics of drifting doesn't just teach you how to tune it teaches you how to drive better too. For example, have you noticed that when you give throttle during a drift, the car doesn't go sideways immediately, it's delayed? When you understand the physics behind why it does that, you can not only predict it better, but you can relate it to other things like the lean of the car. Without knowing these things, it's very difficult to advance. You will still learn to drift, yes, but it will be slow and you will often find out that something you thought was true is not true and you have to change your whole way of driving. Not fun.

Exactly. Your instinct can only take you so far. Without knowledge of physics, technique, and tuning, you will hit the preverbial wall (so to speak). You need to understand all apects of driving (grip and drift) to become a great drifter. There are no shortcuts. ;)
 
perg is right about the whole predictability thing, but you don't need any knowledge of physics or tuning in a definative sense.

I manage quite fine if I may say so myself :lol:
Don't expect to see anything more from me until GT4 though. My wheel just got returned today but it's getting replaced with a DF Pro when I get the money.

To me, driving is just angles and logic.
A samurai's intuition so to say.
Predictability comes through experience and, again, logical foresight. Not numbers and words.

Drifting is somewhat sluggish in GT3 and the game restricts in certain aspects, like a sort of powerful steering/throttle assist is always enabled.

So ya... hopefully that will change in the next version.
My copy of GT4 is already paid for.
Is yours?

Until then.
maserati.gif
 
Originally posted by Street Fighter
perg is right about the whole predictability thing, but you don't need any knowledge of physics or tuning in a definative sense.

I manage quite fine if I may say so myself :lol:
Don't expect to see anything more from me until GT4 though. My wheel just got returned today but it's getting replaced with a DF Pro when I get the money.

To me, driving is just angles and logic.
A samurai's intuition so to say.
Predictability comes through experience and, again, logical foresight. Not numbers and words.

Drifting is somewhat sluggish in GT3 and the game restricts in certain aspects, like a sort of powerful steering/throttle assist is always enabled.

So ya... hopefully that will change in the next version.
My copy of GT4 is already paid for.
Is yours?

Until then.
maserati.gif
That's very ignorant, and a little arogant. If you keep this philosophy, you will never advance past a certain point. It doesn't really matter to me. While your skills remain static, mine will increase. Education is the key to knowledge, knowledge is the key to understanding, understanding is the key to unlock skill. We are just trying to help you out, by giving you correct information. What you do with that info is up to you. If you don't want to increase your skill, then by all means, don't educate yourself. ;)
 
Originally posted by Street Fighter
perg is right about the whole predictability thing, but you don't need any knowledge of physics or tuning in a definative sense.

I manage quite fine if I may say so myself :lol:
Don't expect to see anything more from me until GT4 though. My wheel just got returned today but it's getting replaced with a DF Pro when I get the money.

To me, driving is just angles and logic.
A samurai's intuition so to say.
Predictability comes through experience and, again, logical foresight. Not numbers and words.

Drifting is somewhat sluggish in GT3 and the game restricts in certain aspects, like a sort of powerful steering/throttle assist is always enabled.

So ya... hopefully that will change in the next version.
My copy of GT4 is already paid for.
Is yours?

Mine is paid for too, can't wait to see everyone there! Anyway, you're right that you can figure it out by driving and just programming your reflexes, it needs to be done either way. However, if you learn first, then the reflexes are programmed the right way the first time. So to me, not understanding the physics is lazy or careless. A samurai's intuition never overrules his sense of dedication.
 
I'm not trying to be ignorant. I just wasn't asking for 'help', and I was certainly not being arrogant. That was sort of an inside joke.

Sil, you and I have different views on education.
You slow progression by concerning yourself with every little detail.

People complain that what I say is over-simplified, which is somewhat true, but by no means am I trying to be complex. I describe things in a way that people can absorb easily and build upon IN THEIR HEAD, which is where it counts.

I don't spout off loads of information so people willing to learn can recognize the amount of info there really is and strain themselves to memorize everything they are reading.

There is a difference between knowledge and intelligence.
You gain knowledge by reading and researching.
I gain knowledge mostly through experience.

However, I also gain intelligence (the ability to apply knowledge) at the same time, simply because I am learning through pushing limits and being aware. Whereas you gain knowledge and intelligence at two separate times.

This is too complicated to explain in a way that I won't distort my own views, but you may think my lack of material knowledge respectively converts into a lack of skill.

I am sorry, Sean, but you are wrong.
I will not forget you.
We will speak again in 3 months, upon GT4's release.
 
Originally posted by Street Fighter
I'm not trying to be ignorant. I just wasn't asking for 'help', and I was certainly not being arrogant. That was sort of an inside joke.

Sil, you and I have different views on education.
You slow progression by concerning yourself with every little detail.

People complain that what I say is over-simplified, which is somewhat true, but by no means am I trying to be complex. I describe things in a way that people can absorb easily and build upon IN THEIR HEAD, which is where it counts.

I don't spout off loads of information so people willing to learn can recognize the amount of info there really is and strain themselves to memorize everything they are reading.

There is a difference between knowledge and intelligence.
You gain knowledge by reading and researching.
I gain knowledge mostly through experience.

However, I also gain intelligence (the ability to apply knowledge) at the same time, simply because I am learning through pushing limits and being aware. Whereas you gain knowledge and intelligence at two separate times.

This is too complicated to explain in a way that I won't distort my own views, but you may think my lack of material knowledge respectively converts into a lack of skill.

I am sorry, Sean, but you are wrong.
I will not forget you.
We will speak again in 3 months, upon GT4's release.
Well if you are trying to explain things so people can understand, you are failing. I can't even count the number of your posts, that recieved a :odd: or :confused:. Furthermore, What am I wrong about? If you understand the tuning and physics, then the rest comes easy. If you don't it takes twice as long to achieve the same thing. You said yourself that you don't know how to tune a car. How can you ever be a good drifter, if you don't understand what's making the car drift? It has been proven time and time again, that tuning knowledge is a necessity. Ask any Pro drifter, or even the amature ones, and they will tell you the same thing. As Perg said "not understanding the physics is lazy or careless. A samurai's intuition never overrules his sense of dedication." Now before you just type up a counter reply, reread the past few pages, and think about it......carefully..................................


;)
 
I am sorry if you think i am just spouting off information to confuse you or other people. Something that makes perfect sense to me may not make sense to other people, i admit that i do care about every little detail, becuase it is from every little detail that things can be improved. Anyways we are not talking about learning how to drift or race in this thread. It is obvious that such stuff needs practice. Notice that no racing school puts you in the drivers seat before you take a class to understand the basics... But i admit that their is not replacement for experience.

You might think that people who think things through slow thier progression, but i assure you that thinking and understanding things will ultimately speed your ability to do stuff... You cant do math without understanding things. You cant improve upon yourself without first understanding hte problem. To me life if about understanding problems...

If i had all the time in the world and if i was doing this for something other than trying to explain and point out stuff, i would put much more time into it. But posting as i have int he past just takes too much time for what the amount i have at the moment.

I would suggest going far far back and reading what we said a long time ago...
 
Originally posted by bengee
I am sorry if you think i am just spouting off information to confuse you or other people. Something that makes perfect sense to me may not make sense to other people, i admit that i do care about every little detail, becuase it is from every little detail that things can be improved. Anyways we are not talking about learning how to drift or race in this thread. It is obvious that such stuff needs practice. Notice that no racing school puts you in the drivers seat before you take a class to understand the basics... But i admit that their is not replacement for experience.

You might think that people who think things through slow thier progression, but i assure you that thinking and understanding things will ultimately speed your ability to do stuff... You cant do math without understanding things. You cant improve upon yourself without first understanding hte problem. To me life if about understanding problems...



I would suggest going far far back and reading what we said a long time ago...

Agreed. Well said. ;)
 
Originally posted by Street Fighter
I'm not trying to be ignorant. I just wasn't asking for 'help', and I was certainly not being arrogant. That was sort of an inside joke.

Sil, you and I have different views on education.
You slow progression by concerning yourself with every little detail.

People complain that what I say is over-simplified, which is somewhat true, but by no means am I trying to be complex. I describe things in a way that people can absorb easily and build upon IN THEIR HEAD, which is where it counts.

I don't spout off loads of information so people willing to learn can recognize the amount of info there really is and strain themselves to memorize everything they are reading.

There is a difference between knowledge and intelligence.
You gain knowledge by reading and researching.
I gain knowledge mostly through experience.

However, I also gain intelligence (the ability to apply knowledge) at the same time, simply because I am learning through pushing limits and being aware. Whereas you gain knowledge and intelligence at two separate times.

This is too complicated to explain in a way that I won't distort my own views, but you may think my lack of material knowledge respectively converts into a lack of skill.

I am sorry, Sean, but you are wrong.
I will not forget you.
We will speak again in 3 months, upon GT4's release.

Now stating your opinion is one thing but stating that someone else is wrong is a stronger statement. You are missing our entire point. The point is that a person who is truly interested in drifting would be interested in learning this information. You don't study it like for a test, drudging over it and trying to memorize it. You just read it once, and you might notice a concept you don't really understand or hadn't thought about, then you read it over a few times and try to match it with what's in your head. It's not about memorizing, it's about thinking of things from new perspectives. You might read a whole page and only learn one small thing, all that's important is filling in the gaps so that you are a balanced drifter. Trust me, you seem to think otherwise, but you are not all-knowing and all-discovering. You will miss things, you are missing things, I've never seen you drift but I garauntee it. I'm missing things too, so is silviadrifter and Bengee.
 
Originally posted by pergatory
Now stating your opinion is one thing but stating that someone else is wrong is a stronger statement. You are missing our entire point. The point is that a person who is truly interested in drifting would be interested in learning this information. You don't study it like for a test, drudging over it and trying to memorize it. You just read it once, and you might notice a concept you don't really understand or hadn't thought about, then you read it over a few times and try to match it with what's in your head. It's not about memorizing, it's about thinking of things from new perspectives. You might read a whole page and only learn one small thing, all that's important is filling in the gaps so that you are a balanced drifter. Trust me, you seem to think otherwise, but you are not all-knowing and all-discovering. You will miss things, you are missing things, I've never seen you drift but I garauntee it. I'm missing things too, so is silviadrifter and Bengee.

Exactly, I understand that I still miss things, but I am in a constant search for information, so I can gradualy chip away at my weeknesses, and unlock more potential.;)
 
Thank you for your opinions.

I didn't say I was all knowing, though. I actually said my lack of knowledge isn't necessarily a defecit.
Boasting is not what I am trying to achieve by saying this, but from what has been presented to me in video form, I am just as skilled as some of you guys when it comes to the actual driving part.

However.. it depends on how you guage skill. Be it knowing more about cars and tuning them, I fall short. Should it come to driving any car in general and adapting to it's characteristics, that is where I may succeed some people.

You dudes have to understand that I am fairly new to these forums and the only reason I have been driving all this time is because I truly enjoy it and I never knew there was a whole community based around the virtual driving side of things.

What I have learned is through pure enjoyment.
When it comes to doing things I like, I tend to automatically disagree with what is being lectured at me because I simply do not like being taught things unless I ask for it. A terrible habit, I know, but please understand that.

My first ever actual race versus another person with some degree of skill was not too long ago. It was with the identical cars with no upgrades on the same track. A car I had never driven before. Although I lost, it was only by 0.628 seconds and I spent maybe 25% of the time my opponent did actually driving on the course trying to achieve a best lap.

I just don't care about winning or straining myself to become the best, but because driving is so good in so many ways and I have practically sacrificed relationships for the sake of doing what I enjoy, this is something I do not plan on quitting.

I look forward to driving along-side you all, come Gran Turismo 4.

-A temporary goodbye.
 
Originally posted by Street Fighter


When it comes to doing things I like, I tend to automatically disagree with what is being lectured at me because I simply do not like being taught things unless I ask for it. A terrible habit, I know, but please understand that.


At least you admit it, now you just have to work on breaking it.



Originally posted by Street Fighter


I just don't care about winning or straining myself to become the best, but because driving is so good in so many ways and I have practically sacrificed relationships for the sake of doing what I enjoy, this is something I do not plan on quitting.

I look forward to driving along-side you all, come Gran Turismo 4.

-A temporary goodbye.

I have faith that you will eventually gain a hunger to learn the tuning aspect. If you love cars and racing as much as you say you do, you can't help but someday wish to understand more about them. Therefore, I also look forward to drifting along side everyone, but until then, I'll have fun just judging the comps, and practicing my link combos. ;)
 
Originally posted by Street Fighter
...and I, on the highway, dodging those huge yellow vans in TXR3.
I played that game, beat it twice, got bored and now it just sits there, gathering dust. The physics, while better than the previous in the series, is floaty and unrealistic. It's far too easy. The tuning is far to generic. The only real replay value it has, is due to the paint editor option. I hope they add something similiar to GT4....................... ;)
 
Yeah i know that i have so much to learn. But hey that is what gives me drive, just like driving gives you drive Street Fighter. Don't think of what we are saying as lecturing. Its more of a discussion that anyone can add too if they want or need to. That is the way in which i have learnt alot and also why i have respect for people like perg and SD and such... Not to mention they are great drifters :D
 
Forgive me if I have shunned that information.

I will be making an effort to gather money to afford a Driving Force Pro, but until I succeed, GT3 is just going to stay in my collection of games, because without a wheel, it's just not worth playing. The feeling just isn't there.

When GT4 comes out, all I have to do is trade in 3 games I never play and I get it for free.

Until either of those things are achieved, all I have is TXR3 and my computer games.

Then there's school, which I am signing up for today.

So yeah, my hands are hella full.

-See you around guys.
 
Drifting is a technique that requires lots of practice and an efficient suspension and drive train setup. For those underpowered cars drifting is definitely the technique you want to use. Depending on the difficulty of the course and conditions, the suspension/tire setup you have, and the kind of vehicle you drive are all factors of the grip or drift style. Let us take an example of an all wheel drive car and apply its attributes to a downhill course.

- The Evolution VII is a grip and drift driving monster. The inline four, cast-iron block, and aluminum head that it is equipped with, does it justice. Depending on what style best fits your machine, the monster Evolution VII is in some cases capable of both. The Evo's superior power allows it to brake hard at corner entry, letting the front end suspension tighten up a bit, making it a little difficult to turn in, but feeding the throttle slowly should allow you to stay on track and not hurl yourself of a cliff into a shadowy abyss of razor sharp rock. Entering the corner at full throttle and braking hard is of course going to cause you to drift, this is where you eliminate the grip driving factor. The Evo's light weight body and superior horsepower allows you to drift or grip depending on the situation. I feel the Evo is a better drifter because of its overall short frame and engine displacement. If you were looking more into the grip driving side of things then make sure you have anything but stock brakes and it might be nice to have adjustable coilovers. You are going to need superior braking, which will allow you to brake later and accelerate quicker, because a good opponent that is using the drifting style will enter a corner at a much higher speed. All the Evo can be groomed into either a drifter or grip driving machine; it is totally at your disposal.

- Why not look at the Nissan Skyline R32. Yes, let's talk about skylines for a few minutes, just because Takeshi Nakazato of the Night Kids and his GT-R R32 lost to Takumi in his AE86 Sprinter Trueno does not mean that the Skyline is not a good car for downhill racing. First of all, the R32 is superior for uphill and on the downhill it is an effective grip driver. Everyone wishes they had a skyline; no one wants an AE86, because no one really possesses Takumi's God-like driving skill. With that said, let's move on. The R32 comes equipped with the standard RB26DETT that produces 280bhp at 6,800rpm and 271 lb-ft at 4,400rpm. Now, catch your breath and think for a second, when you pay nearly 60K for a skyline you better know how to handle this beast. You cannot drift in a skyline, it produces too much torque and is virtually impossible to handle if you throw it into a drift, so unless you want to spin out and die, use the grip driving technique. The R32 or any GTR for that matter makes so much horsepower that it will compensate for loss ground when racing a drifter. Again, have very good brakes, it takes a lot to slow a skyline down. It will probably take time to gain full control of the R32 and learn its strengths and weaknesses, but applying the right technique with an adjustable suspension and strong braking calipers, the R32 is yours to wield.

- An effective drifter is the Toyota SW20 MR2, its transverse rear-mid engine and rear wheel drive setup is more than the perfect ingredients for an excellent drift car. The MR2 is a well-balanced car which makes it ideal for drifting. Its strong center of gravity allows it to enter corners at high speeds and exit at roughly the same amount of throttle. Depending on whether you have a decent tire/suspension setup, the MR2 should be easily groomed into a drift machine. Having bucket seats and five point seatbelts might help you withstand the G-force when drifting. The MR2 is known for coming out of corners hard because of its little understeer / oversteer factor. This allows it to accelerate directly, without having to fight with the steering wheel. This little guy will really toss you around if you don't know how to handle it properly.
 
Originally posted by LanEvo
there are no circumstances that a skilled drifter can take a turn faster than a skilled grip driver...none..nadda..0


un true, sooooo un true, have you seen any videos with the drift king? he enters a corner, drifts it all the way through, and exits at a higher speed than he went in at, so it is possible, with practice, and patients, i have no patients so, it wont work for me.
 
Only doctors have patients... jk...

There is a difference between exit speed and time in the corner which determines fastness... i guess... line and speed are what determine this time... so its pretty complicated and i am tired...
 
Originally posted by bengee
Only doctors have patients... jk...

There is a difference between exit speed and time in the corner which determines fastness... i guess... line and speed are what determine this time... so its pretty complicated and i am tired...

Yes, this is true. The time in the corner, is what determines the speed. When you are drifting through a corner, you may enter the corner faster, but the grip driver has less time in the corner (usually). It is possible to drift faster than grip, but as it has been stated over, and over, and over again, only through the effective use of 4 wheel drift (not 4WD drift)....................;)
 
Yes, this is true. The time in the corner, is what determines the speed. When you are drifting through a corner, you may enter the corner faster, but the grip driver has less time in the corner (usually). It is possible to drift faster than grip, but as it has been stated over, and over, and over again, only through the effective use of 4 wheel drift (not 4WD drift)....................

Yah, I agree with silviadrifter. My drift is faster than my grip, because I use minimum countersteering, full throttle, or something like that, 4 wheel drift, my drift is faster than my grip in Gt2, with my drift is faster than my grip in Gt3, I don't know. All I do is: I brake more late for drift than my grip, I do the line with 4 whell drift, as I said above (minimum countersteering...), and don't spin. The first curve of midfield raceway, I start with 155 Km/h, during the curve my km/h is 140 km/H, and at the exit with 150 km/h, it is a little difficult to don't spin with that speed. Conclusion, gain more "hands" and you will do this.
 
There is a difference between 4 wheel exhibition drift (no countersteering but still plenty of smoke) and 4 wheel drift as in the fastest form of driving... I do not think anyone posting in this thread can even come close to consistent 4 wheel drifting in the latter sense...

If you would like more info i would suggest going through and actually reading this thread... I wonder how many times this has been said...
 
I haven't posted in this thread, so here's my little contribution:

There're newbies who think:
Cause: Drifting
Effect: You're going faster.

But the fact is:
Cause: You go faster than the car can go through a corner.
Effect: The car starts sliding, and if the driver is enough skilled, he can control the sliding taking the same time (or less?) to exit the corner. And exiting with the same speed (or more?).
 
Man, it's been so long since I've posted here, but I just wanted to see what's been posted since I last entered GTP. Seems like we've come a slight distance from the first 14 pages of posts, and what's been said in the last 3 pages seems to have summed up the first 75% of this forum really well.

It is true what Sheron has contributed on post#416. A lot of people come into drifting threads thinking that drifting is already faster without knowing how because they've seen "proof". This thread has really been informative on the contrary to that point.
 
MR2s are sooooo.................... nice when i turn 16 im gonna buy a 95 MR-2 GT-S with its nice 3SGTE engine...............


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ONLY 2 MORE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Like this RC car i just got it for my B-Day
 

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