F1 Winter Testing (2012)

[tribolik]

If you were talking about Sutil then you might even call him drunken German criminal. But as you are trying to point out that might offend other Germans...

 

[CarolinaBlue704]

Well, many of us expect high performance on the circuit from F1-drivers. Qualities you chose to burden Raikkonen with may be important to yourself - I have no argument against your choice.

What motivated Ferrari to pay him out, however, was something quite else than what you suggest. The 'pay-out' was entirely financed by Santander Bank, in order to get Alonso as Ferrari driver.

Furthermore, quite a few F1-drivers are known to enjoy 'drink or two' every now and then. Recently, some of them have even been convicted for excessive violence while having had these. I wouldn't call these fellows 'drunken Germans' or 'drunken Dutchmen', though ... Things tend to happen to people, even drivers, but as long as they perform the way they're expected to at races, I would leave the other half of their lives non-commented on these forums.

But why would Ferrari choose Alonso over Kimi? Ferrari certainly doesn't NEED Santander's money. So did they believe Alonso was that much better than Kimi, despite Kimi having just won the championship in 2007. Or did Ferrari, themselves, question Kimi's commitment to being a Formula 1 driver? I personally believe it was the latter.

With that being said I am a fan of Raikkonen. It's good to have him back in the sport. I hope to see him competing near the front. But I do not have much confidence in Lotus delivering a car good enough for him to do so.

 

[peter_vod69]

People are far too precious about nationality on here.

 

[niky]

I don't think we can even read that in testing, especially as its the first test - they won't even have a base setup sorted out yet and most of the parts they intend to run in Australia don't start really appearing till the final few test days.

Granted that Williams did well previously but then went on to do not so well, typically it's only the top teams who've gone under 1.19.5 in testing here... so the lap is still a good one.

Yes, it's as meaningless as all laps are before the first qualifying, but at least we know Kimi is driving decently despite being away, and the Lotus is working well. Whether that's front-running pace well or mid-field well, remains to be seen, but it's likely it's not a bad car.

Can't wait for the season to start!

 

[Ardius]

Its easy to drive well in testing when there is no pressure and you can set a hot time simply by dumping the fuel. What matters is whether he can perform during a GP weekend. Again, its all pretty meaningless, are we really surprised Kimi can still drive decently behind an F1 car? The million dollar question is whether he is still as fast - and testing will never tell you that.

Sure the Lotus doesn't appear to be a bad car...but neither did the Williams.

 

[hawkeye122]

Well, many of us expect high performance on the circuit from F1-drivers. Qualities you chose to burden Raikkonen with may be important to yourself - I have no argument against your choice.

What motivated Ferrari to pay him out, however, was something quite else than what you suggest. The 'pay-out' was entirely financed by Santander Bank, in order to get Alonso as Ferrari driver.

Furthermore, quite a few F1-drivers are known to enjoy 'drink or two' every now and then. Recently, some of them have even been convicted for excessive violence while having had these. I wouldn't call these fellows 'drunken Germans' or 'drunken Dutchmen', though ... Things tend to happen to people, even drivers, but as long as they perform the way they're expected to at races, I would leave the other half of their lives non-commented on these forums.

Who are you to declare what should happen on "These forums" when you've only made 2 contributions?

 

[Tesla]

He's saying that he would leave them alone. Which I would say is excellent advice 👍


And who are you to declare how he should post? He's new and has a well thought out and clear posting style, which is more than can be said for most people when they sign up here.

 

[niky]

Sure the Lotus doesn't appear to be a bad car...but neither did the Williams.

While I agree, in part, that it's easy to set a hot time in practice, when you have clean air for long periods of time and nobody's going wheel to wheel with you, who's to say there isn't any pressure on Kimi? Obviously, there will be a reason that he's felt the need to push hard and push fast, right away.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I agree that the time is meaningless in terms of where Lotus will be later this season, but I still hold that it's a very good time for a driver who's not been in the sport for a few years. I'm not going to place bets on Kimi getting any podiums this year, but at the very least, I'm sure he's not going to be bottom of the tables.

As regards the Williams connection... as long as the Lotus doesn't have a gearbox of clay...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Obviously, there will be a reason that he's felt the need to push hard and push fast, right away.

Perhaps Lotus decided "Hey, we've got Kimi Raikkonen, and we're getting a lot of interest because of it, so let's go out early and set a quick laptime to keep public interest high". It's exactly what I'd do in their position - stack the testing programme to favour quick runs first.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Perhaps Lotus decided "Hey, we've got Kimi Raikkonen, and we're getting a lot of interest because of it, so let's go out early and set a quick laptime to keep public interest high". It's exactly what I'd do in their position - stack the testing programme to favour quick runs first.

Probably, but all it does now is make us wonder how fast everyone else really is.

 

[Hun200kmh]

2nd day's standings so far, according to autosport:

[SIZE="3"]1	 Schumacher	Mercedes	 1m18.561s	        32
2	 M. Webber	Red Bull	 1m19.184s  +0.623	46
3	 Ricciardo	Toro Rosso	 1m19.605s  +1.044	32
4	 Bianchi	Force India	 1m20.221s  +1.660	40
5	 Raikkonen	Lotus    	 1m20.239s  +1.678	15
6	 J. Button	McLaren  	 1m20.727s  +2.166	18
7	 F. Massa	Ferrari   	 1m21.060s  +2.499	30
8	 Maldonado	Williams	 1m21.197s  +2.636	45
9	 S. Perez	Sauber     	 1m21.289s  +2.728	35
10	 Kovalainen	Caterham	 1m21.518s  +2.957	60
11	 De la Rosa	HRT       	 1m24.736s  +6.175	9[/SIZE]

Doesn't need reminding that Schumacher is running a 2011 car. More worthy of notice are the nice laps made by the rookies Bianchi and Ricciardo.

Looking at it as a whole, the times from all teams running 2012 spec cars are very close.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Proof that Raikkonen's lap times yesterday were ultimately inconsequential. Schumacher is a second faster, and even if he is running a 2011-spec car, both Webber and Ricciardo are quicker than the Lotus.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Proof that Raikkonen's lap times yesterday were ultimately inconsequential. Schumacher is a second faster, and even if he is running a 2011-spec car, both Webber and Ricciardo are quicker than the Lotus.

Yeah but the Lotus is still quicker overall. Raikonnen time from yesterday is better than those 2 laps. But I dont think it means anything yet. I really doubt McLaren is behind Torro Rosso and Forza India in pure performance.

 

[GTPorsche]

Yeah but the Lotus is still quicker overall. Raikonnen time from yesterday is better than those 2 laps. But I dont think it means anything yet. I really doubt McLaren is behind Torro Rosso and Forza India in pure performance.

Just more proof that this testing means nothing in terms of performance. It is a better measure of reliability based on the laps they can do.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Yeah but the Lotus is still quicker overall. Raikonnen time from yesterday is better than those 2 laps. But I dont think it means anything yet. I really doubt McLaren is behind Torro Rosso and Forza India in pure performance.

Since there is no requirement at all to even run a legal car in the sense that it would pass scutineering at a race meeting then times literally mean absolutely nothing at all in testing since each team is running in accordance with its own agenda.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Morning practise is over now, lunch break for all teams.

It is curious to check how each team informs fans on twitter. Just as an example of "slightly different" approaches, here you have the Ferrari and the Lotus twitter activity of this morning. Ferrari is very laconic, Lotus uses humor. I laughed at the "rallying" reference to what must have been a off-track excursion from Kimi.



The morning's tweets from Ferrari:

- Good morning from Jerez de la Frontera circuit.

- Felipe Massa has just completed his double installation lap: no issues on the car.

- Today's work will be the same as yesterday. We need to collect as many data as possible to understand better the behaviour of the car.

- So, don't expect to see spectacular lap times from our side. What is important is that we do our job in the proper way.

- First run is going to finish now: 1.21.418 is the fastest lap for Felipe, who is back in the pit lane now

- Second run finished, no lap time improvement.

- Third run is coming to an end, 1.21.060 is Felipe's best time, currently 7th.

- Another run completed, more data acquired. Still a lot of work to do, which will totally fill the job list today and in the next two days.

- This last run of practice starts signed the end of the morning programme for Felipe.

- Felipe is still 7th in today's ranking with a best time of 1.21.060. Michael Schumacher quickest in 1.18.561

The morning's tweets from Lotus:

- Good Morning @Lotus_F1Team fans! Kimi #Raikkonen will be putting the #E20 through its paces again today; bring on day 2 of #F1 testing!Lotus

- @RGrosjean and @thereal_JDA will be watching on as Kimi takes to the track for day 2 at Jerez; Romain will be driving on Thursday/Friday #F1

- The session kicks off here in Jerez at 09h00 local time; after an encouraging start on day 1, let's hope for more of the same today #F1

- @Katiest1979 Morning! As with yesterday, the aim is to learn as much as possible about the new car and put in some long runs

- Kimi's installation lap for today. Lovely crisp morning once more with the sun burning through the mist

- Kimi back from a three lap run, steering still not to his liking and a minor return to rallying with a brief off track excursion to report

- Car now undergoing a checkover and hoover action. We may even replace the plank.

- @OlliYlitalo The plank is the, err, plank of wood that bolts to the bottom of the car and gets scraped when there's any kerbage

- Whilst the E20 is fettled for a return to the track, @RGrosjean speaks to the media. He'll drive tomorrow pic.twitter.com/CJ2Fjyhw

- @IceOneKimTin No, just a plank replacement, hoover out of gravel, general checkover and polish

- As we have the E20 in the garage, we've decided to change the steering rack at the same time.

- Kimi's back in after putting a further seven laps on the board, reporting the car feeling better than first thing

- Back out on track for Kimi

- Box Kimi, Box; 25 laps on the board, best time of 1:20.239secs so far

 

[daan]

I think perhaps that Mercedes and HRT should be removed from the list of times as they're still using 2011 cars.

 

[Tom]

I think perhaps that Mercedes and HRT should be removed from the list of times as they're still using 2011 cars.

I feel inclined to say the same thing.

 

[Alex p.]

Perhaps Lotus decided "Hey, we've got Kimi Raikkonen, and we're getting a lot of interest because of it, so let's go out early and set a quick laptime to keep public interest high". It's exactly what I'd do in their position - stack the testing programme to favour quick runs first.

Overreaction much? Ever thought they would change the car's settings, to well...actually test the car? (Except the possibility that they are not allowed to, which to me, doesn't make any sense)

I think perhaps that Mercedes and HRT should be removed from the list of times as they're still using 2011 cars.

No. It's interesting to see how the new ones compare to them.

 

[Peter.]

Proof that Raikkonen's lap times yesterday were ultimately inconsequential. Schumacher is a second faster, and even if he is running a 2011-spec car, both Webber and Ricciardo are quicker than the Lotus.

Well, I'm not sure about the tyre compounds used today, but I do know that Kimi only used the Mediums yesterday. I'm not expecting anything big from Lotus in terms of the car's capabilities. I think that if their 2012 car slots into where the 2010 car did in performance, then Kimi may deliver a similar performance to what Kubica managed in 2010.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Well ... I understand daan's point, but at the same time it's interesting to check their times as Alex says, they are in a way, the benchmark of what was lost (performance wise) with the changes to the regulations.

I will add a note to make sure even the most unaware of us all don't miss that info.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Does anyone here have a subscription to autosport ? I would really much read the article on Red Bull RB8 analysis.

 

[daan]

I will add a note to make sure even the most unaware of us all don't miss that info.

Yeah, I meant to put in that they should at least be some note that they're still using last years cars.

Does anyone here have a subscription to autosport ? I would really much read the article on Red Bull RB8 analysis.

No. You can buy it for 89p.

 

[Jarmo S]

But why would Ferrari choose Alonso over Kimi? Ferrari certainly doesn't NEED Santander's money. So did they believe Alonso was that much better than Kimi, despite Kimi having just won the championship in 2007. Or did Ferrari, themselves, question Kimi's commitment to being a Formula 1 driver? I personally believe it was the latter.

With that being said I am a fan of Raikkonen. It's good to have him back in the sport. I hope to see him competing near the front. But I do not have much confidence in Lotus delivering a car good enough for him to do so.

Naturally, I can't be sure, but it is quite obvious that Santander was the one that chose Alonso over Raikkonen. As to Ferrari needed Santander's money, I believe that no team - no matter how 'rich' - would reject multiple-year financial contract with them. And, mind you, Alonso is quite a driver, too!

I happen to be great fan of Vettel. I quite agree with the rest of your points, though.

 

[Jarmo S]

Who are you to declare what should happen on "These forums" when you've only made 2 contributions?

You're quite right, I am nobody to declare anything, not after four, now - or even more - contributions. I merely referred to what I myself would not want to comment here or on any other forum, regardless the number of my comments. Truly sorry for any misunderstanding.

 

[tribolik]

Who are you to declare what should happen on "These forums" when you've only made 2 contributions?

He is a user just like me and just like you... and I too think their personal lives should stay private IMO.

 

[Peter.]

I just managed to tune into a Sky report that was showing on Fox Soccer regarding current F1 testing. They paid a noticeable amount of attention to Ferrari's lack of pace today, implying that Ferrari does not have the pace yet again, when Massa and Ferrari clearly said that they weren't going for quick runs today, and were just trying to learn as much as they can about the car and to collect data.

 

[tribolik]

I just managed to tune into a Sky report that was showing on Fox Soccer regarding current F1 testing. They paid a noticeable amount of attention to Ferrari's lack of pace today, implying that Ferrari does not have the pace yet again, when Massa and Ferrari clearly said that they weren't going for quick runs today, and were just trying to learn as much as they can about the car and to collect data.

Well they have done better than Mclaren in this test... and I dont think this first 3 days will mean anything... IMO the 4th day will shed come light and still that wont mean anything.

 

[niky]

No. It's interesting to see how the new ones compare to them.

Well, we already know that the current cars lack a lot of downforce at the rear compared to last year's cars, thanks to the lack of exhaust-blown diffusers.

The question is, how much or how little?

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Grosjean already faster than Raikonnen Gogo Romain. Actually faster than any other 2012 car. And he's doing quite constant lap. I'm still betting Lotus/enstone is putting more fuel to be ahead. I would just love if manufacturer could agree together to do a fast lap at one time in this 4 days of tests lol, one can dream ^^

Perez doing not so bad lap on the Sauber ^^ If he can have a better car, with the tyres management he's able to make it might be a really interesting season.

Also alonso already having trouble with the car, apparently it's a hydraulic problem. Not a good start for Fernando.