FIA considering closed cockpit F1 in the future?

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Hun200kmh, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. Samus

    Samus

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    It doesn't look absolutely awful but it still looks out of place and bolted on, exactly what it is. Also for some reason it looks comically oversized for the car.

    [​IMG]

     
  2. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Apparently it has been designed with the 2017 cars in mind. And I get the feeling that this was more of a proof-of-concept test than anything else - Red Bull would need direct feedback from the drivers before taking it any further. As pointed out during the broadcast, it produces problems for the cooling, it would be very difficult to see the starting lights (though I believe that the lights are hooked up to an audio system so that the drivers get a cue to start), and driver extraction would be difficult - doing the seatbelt buckles up was awkward, and in an accident like Alonso's Melbourne crash, almost impossible for the driver to extract themselves (and turning a car over with an injured driver is always risky).

    Nevertheless, it is something that can be developed further.
     
  3. Robin

    Robin Premium

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    It looks like those tooned oversized bobble head drivers helmets from the front angle :lol:
     
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  4. mustafur

    mustafur

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    Im sure if they went with that, the car design will change to suit it.
     
  5. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Johnny Herbert asked a very interesting question in the build-up to Sochi FP2: say a tyre hits a halo or an aeroscreen or whatever solution is ultimately chosen - where does it go next?
     
  6. daan

    daan Moderator

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    If it hits the nose of a car, where does it go next? If it hits the tyre of another car, where does it go next?
     
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  7. mustafur

    mustafur

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    Sounds like he is clutching at straws, you hit any part of the car at speed it's going to do the same thing, which is go in a Random direction at speed, and likely height.
     
  8. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Herbert's question was in response to footage of the testing. The aeroscreen deflects debris, but because of its shape, it doesn't shave off as much potential energy than the nose or a tyre. There's a much greater chance of a second driver hitting it with the aeroscreen.

    I don't think so - if it hits the aeroscreen, it's going to pass over the top of the car and continue at speed. One of the other proposed solutions was a series of vertical fins that, if struck by debris, will slow that debris down as well as deflecting it.
     
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  9. mustafur

    mustafur

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    Wouldn't that be the same as the Nose though, with the current regulations as they are the Nose is at the same angle.

    They might need to increase the nose height a bit and then they can integrate the angle of the aeroscreen with the nose of the car, it will also improve drag.
     
  10. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    That only magnifies the problem Herbert is alluding to - sure, it's great for driver protection, but it deflects debris away in such a way that the debris loses very little of its energy.
     
  11. Sureboss

    Sureboss Premium

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    But it could deflect it in to a more dangerous situation, not just better. By creating vertical fins, you're creating more potential debris in the situation. The cars have enough bodywork additions as it is that already add to the "debris count".
     
  12. mustafur

    mustafur

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    I don't see the issue though, it's a curved shape, meaning it can still turn it also would require many things to fall in place for something that rarely happens in the first place.

    Which is also solved by the fact that everyone else has one as well.
     
  13. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    A wheel that skips off a few aeroscreens is better than a wheel that hits a drivers helmet /justsayin
     
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  14. mustafur

    mustafur

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    Instant death vs random direction of tyre.

    It's a no brainer.
     
  15. LumpiestFish

    LumpiestFish

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    The only bad possibility of a tyre deflection would be if bounced into the crowd. But it's the sort of one in a million thing that would rarely happen.
     
  16. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Say it was a nose cone, like in Justin Wilson's accident. Modern racing cars are designed to disintegrate on impact - that's why Alonso's car exploded in a shower of carbon fibre shards in Melbourne. Each individual piece of carbon fibre carries with it some kinetic energy, directing it away from the survival cell and the driver.

    One of the proposed solutions is a series of vertical fins mounted on the nose at the point where is curves downwards. In the case of something like a nosecone or front wing, it would cause the debris to shatter; in the case of a tyre, it would deflect it and arrest its potential energy.
     
  17. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

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    I guess it would theoretically slow down whatever debris is hurtling around; it would deflect and lose momentum, possibly reducing the impact on a driver. Until it gets relaunched by another fast-moving object, or moves away from another impact.
     
  18. sems4arsenal

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    Tyre heaven I suppose.

    Valid question though, the video shows the tyres deflecting up which makes it more dangerous for the guy behind.
     
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  19. prisonermonkeys

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    And if that was the only comcern, it might be excusable - but there are issues with access and driver extraction; as was pointed out, if Alonso was using an aeroscreen in Melbourne, he would not have been able to escape unaided. In that case, what if a car is on fire? What if a driver has a spinal injury and the car has to be righted?

    Of course, these are rare scenarios - but so too is debris flying at a driver's face. It's not hard to make the case that by minimising the risk of debris flying at a driver, you increase the risk of danger in the case of fire or spinal injury.
     
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  20. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

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    All valid points @prisonermonkeys , it's still a long way off being a final version, but it's getting there.
     
  21. Dotini

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    Is there any argument that a fully enclosed cockpit like an LMP1 is not in general safer than an open cockpit LMP1?

    Hamilton apparently has been quoted as saying that, though he prefers a traditional open cockpit, that if these halos and aeroscreens are adopted, the fully enclosed cockpit would be his preference.

    I see doors and windscreen wipers coming down the line, and inevitably more and more weight. These are already the heaviest F1 cars ever raced since the 1950 Talbot-Lago.

    But things change in the name of safety. If we really wanted to see the driver, we'd attend a kart race!
     
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  22. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    I don't see what all these moanings about driver extraction and stuff is about, LMP1 has gone close cockpit, and they don't seem to have any more problems. Why can't F1 copy that (oh wait, F1 doesn't want to copy anyone else...)
     
  23. JvM

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    One "small" difference. LMP has doors to get out from.
     
  24. prisonermonkeys

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    Probably not, but once you start introducing them, there's little to differentiate it from the WEC except for shorter races and a lack of driver changes - and I think that you will find that the sport loses a lot of followers.
     
  25. Jimlaad43

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    What's wrong with then putting doors in an F1 car?
     
  26. JvM

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    I guess nothing, but that would require a huge design change, which I doubt will happen.
     
  27. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Everything. It stops being a Formula One car.
     
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  28. catamount39

    catamount39

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    It becomes a branch of Prototype.
     
  29. prisonermonkeys

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    It would be the same as shortening WEC races to two hours and limiting teams to one driver per car. You've essentially turned it into Formula One.
     
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  30. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

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    The sport has already lost a lot of followers. It's the drivers they want to save now.

    New, growing markets for F1 in Central Asia and the Far East seem more important than traditional, old school markets. What do the Asians want to see? Maybe the cars should have long tails and look like dragons? :)