FITT RUF Challenge

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Lionheart2113
Lap Time - 1:33.716
DC Score - 8.8
Review:
The transmission was quick and responsive. The tune was good when on the "proper" drive line, but if you wondered off, it was difficult to recover. The understeer used to tame this savage chihuahua did hurt through the last section...I was always close to the fastest ghost until the last set of turns
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Thank you the test drive and feedback. Didn't relize how much understeer I had tuned into the car.
 
coryclifford
Two things.

I've learned that these events are about pleasing everyone. That's difficult. You need to step out of your personal comfort tuning zone. Some guys like easy to drive and some guys like point and shoot. Some like the car on rails, some like the tail end loose. To find that middle ground is the challenge. To get that smile from a tester just once is worth it.

You can take the bark out of a RUF but you cannot take out the bite.

Make that three things.

Anyone signed up as a tester for the old school class is crazy.

:D
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you hit the nail on the head man. The hardest part for me was taking a build that I was really fast in (i like a more loose car) and adjusting it so that most of the others would be faster than if I had left it loose. Then you kick yourself when everyone keeps saying that it was a little too tight lol.

@Brewguy44 is killing it early !! congrats man. I would have loved to get in on this challenge.
 
ImToLegitToQuit
you hit the nail on the head man. The hardest part for me was taking a build that I was really fast in (i like a more loose car) and adjusting it so that most of the others would be faster than if I had left it loose. Then you kick yourself when everyone keeps saying that it was a little too tight lol.

@Brewguy44 is killing it early !! congrats man. I would have loved to get in on this challenge.
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And you still can.. Tester? :dopey: I gotta try.. :) If I don't, I am not doing my job right.
 
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Otaliema
Prolly the LSD and gearing. I worked so much at reducing tire spin to keep it in check in the low speed turns that it hurt the exit rotation.
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Are you thinking about a higher acceleration or a higher initial torque? The gearing I used for my practice car was a 58% flip (3.750) and either (0/20/40/60/80/100) or (20/0/25/50/75/100) spread with a final of 2.850. LSD was 8/11/18.
 
ImToLegitToQuit
you hit the nail on the head man. The hardest part for me was taking a build that I was really fast in (i like a more loose car) and adjusting it so that most of the others would be faster than if I had left it loose. Then you kick yourself when everyone keeps saying that it was a little too tight lol.

@Brewguy44 is killing it early !! congrats man. I would have loved to get in on this challenge.
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Yeah, you aliens have to put a leash on your tunes so us average joe's have a chance to keep them on the track!:mischievous:
:cheers:
 
Lionheart2113
Could it have been caused by the larger gears because none of the other settings would lead me to think that either.:dunce:
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Looking at the numbers there are a few settings that can cause understeer to develop:

Ride Height (F/R):
125 / 115

Spring Rate (F/R):
7.50 / 8.40

Dampers - Comp. (F/R):
4 / 1

Dampers - Ext. (F/R):
4 / 5

Anti-Roll Bars (F/R):
3 / 2

Camber Angle (F/R):
0.0 / 0.0

Toe Angle (F/R):
-0.15 / 0.50

Brake Balance (F/R):
6 / 5

If we look at the dampers first of all we notice that the front extension is higher than the rear compression, this will cause weight to transfer onto the rear and away from the front during acceleration and cause corner exit understeer.

The next thing is that the rear extension is higher than the front compression which will prevent weight transferring to the front wheels during braking and reduce turn in grip and make rotation difficult.

The rear extension being higher than the rear compression will cause excess mid corner grip on the rear outside wheel, this grip imbalance will make it significantly harder for the front wheels to dictate rotation

(I suspect you would have gotten more favourable results with a lower rear spring rate, maybe even reversed front and rear based on the weight distribution)

The more obvious cause would be front ARB being stiffer than rear, this generally leads to a grip imbalance where the front end lets go first causing understeer. The high amount of rear Toe In is also preventing rotation as the car only wants to travel in a straight line


The way the suspension works in GT5/6 is quite simple when you break it down, if anyone wants to know the tricks then feel free to PM me and I will try to explain it as best I can. I'm unlikely to return to GT6 so have no more need for keeping tricks up my sleeve an would be happy to share them with whoever wants to know. :cheers:
 
DolHaus
Looking at the numbers there are a few settings that can cause understeer to develop:

Ride Height (F/R):
125 / 115

Spring Rate (F/R):
7.50 / 8.40

Dampers - Comp. (F/R):
4 / 1

Dampers - Ext. (F/R):
4 / 5

Anti-Roll Bars (F/R):
3 / 2

Camber Angle (F/R):
0.0 / 0.0

Toe Angle (F/R):
-0.15 / 0.50

Brake Balance (F/R):
6 / 5

If we look at the dampers first of all we notice that the front extension is higher than the rear compression, this will cause weight to transfer onto the rear and away from the front during acceleration and cause corner exit understeer.

The next thing is that the rear extension is higher than the front compression which will prevent weight transferring to the front wheels during braking and reduce turn in grip and make rotation difficult.

The rear extension being higher than the rear compression will cause excess mid corner grip on the rear outside wheel, this grip imbalance will make it significantly harder for the front wheels to dictate rotation

(I suspect you would have gotten more favourable results with a lower rear spring rate, maybe even reversed front and rear based on the weight distribution)

The more obvious cause would be front ARB being stiffer than rear, this generally leads to a grip imbalance where the front end lets go first causing understeer. The high amount of rear Toe In is also preventing rotation as the car only wants to travel in a straight line


The way the suspension works in GT5/6 is quite simple when you break it down, if anyone wants to know the tricks then feel free to PM me and I will try to explain it as best I can. I'm unlikely to return to GT6 so have no more need for keeping tricks up my sleeve an would be happy to share them with whoever wants to know. :cheers:
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I can see the ARBs, but the damper "Kriss Kross" are in line with some of the looser setups, maybe a bigger difference. Most have the same numbers for front vs rear. I was looking more towards the harder springs with the higher ride height. Would that influence that damper cross in a more severe way?
 
Lionheart2113
I can see the ARBs, but the damper "Kriss Kross" are in line with some of the looser setups, maybe a bigger difference. Most have the same numbers for front vs rear. I was looking more towards the harder springs with the higher ride height. Would that influence that damper cross in a more severe way?
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The biggest contribution to understeer that I see there is rear toe in, neutralize that, and you will see how the spring/ARB/damper works without the toe holding it down, maybe neutralize the ride height as well, but that would reduce rotation ... 0.50 toe in is quite a lot, even 0.20 can be felt easily.

It will be interesting to know if the rear toe in was added on later stage of tuning or early before the rest of the suspension was tuned :)
 
Lionheart2113
I can see the ARBs, but the damper "Kriss Kross" are in line with some of the looser setups, maybe a bigger difference. Most have the same numbers for front vs rear. I was looking more towards the harder springs with the higher ride height. Would that influence that damper cross in a more severe way?
Click to expand...
The driving experience would be more or less identical if the spring rates were increased uniformly front and rear, the only change would be that the car would respond faster to input, without driving the car I can't say whether it would increase or decrease peak grip but chances are it would improve high speed handling at the cost of low speed grip. Ride height is sort of the same, increasing it is like lowering spring rates, you get more traction but less response and stability. Unless you adjusted the F/R balance you wouldn't see a major change in characteristics as this is primarily defined by the dampers.
 
All right testing for the sports class is done, with a few surprises to boot! Now I just need to find some time to sit down and type it all up. Should be up by tomorrow night at the latest! :cheers:
 
Sorry for the double post but I think my reviews deserve their own post.

All testing was done over 10 laps at Cape ring north with grip set to real, no aides except ABS 1 on a DFGT wheel. :cheers:

@lBt_33
Best Lap Time - 1:34.870
DC - 8.5
Tune Comments - This tune had me going through mood swings. The understeer was horrible in mid corner, had great entry, but would understeer on exit unless I used the throttle, sparingly, to steer it out. If I was too heavy footed the back end would come around immediately. The brakes were good once I learned to be light footed to avoid lock up. If they locked up the understeer was uncontrollable. I had quite a few red laps due to this tune's unpredictability... Overall a good effort!

@xande1959
Best Lap Time - 1:35.024
DC - 8.0
Tune Comments - Consistently inconsistent is the only way I can describe this tune... The understeer while braking had me sliding into walls all over the track. The brakes were great as long as I was going in a straight line, otherwise I had to be very careful so I wouldn't lose my line. 2nd - 5th gears were good, I never used 1st. When shifting into 6th going up the hill after the round 'a' bout, it would bog down. If the understeer was less this car would've been quick! Good effort sir!

@coryclifford
Best Lap Time - 1:33.883
DC - 9.6
Tune Comments - Wow! Less is more with this tune. Still had some understeer mid corner and a little on exit, but that was solved with a little throttle control. The brakes felt a little weak but I think that's because I was carrying so much more speed through the corners, I just had to brake a touch earlier. The tranny could've used some tuning, but having seen and used some of your other tunes, I assume that's just not your thing... Great Job!! This is probably a podium tune!

@randyrockstiff
Best Lap Time - 1:34.993
DC - 8.5
Tune Comments - This tune was like a girl with her hair up in a ponytail. She needs to let her hair down and loosen up! It just felt too stiff and uptight. The front end was too planted causing understeer all the way through corners. If I got on the throttle too soon or heavy to try and combat the understeer, I would be punished by the inside rear tire instantly turning red causing me to spin or slide. The trans was set up like a 4 speed, as I never used 1st or 6th. I felt second was too long causing the rear end to break lose at high RPM. Not sure if this was gearing or LSD issue. The brakes felt great and really helped me reel this tune in and break the 1:35 mark. Really good effort, just some gearing and LSD issues. Otherwise it would've been a 1:33 tune!

@Brewguy44
Best Lap Time - 1:33.727
DC - 9.8
Tune Comments - Great tune! This car was planted! It had some understeer on corner exit that caused me to run wide a few times, but was easily worked around once I figured it out. The brakes were ok, maybe could've been a touch stronger, but it could just be the same issue I had with Cory's tune, corner speed! This tranny was a 5 speed, as I never touched sixth, but I don't think it hurt any. This would've been a perfect 10 if it wasn't for the understeer. Great Job! Another podium finisher for sure!

@Otaliema
Best Lap Time - 1:33.915
DC - 9.9
Tune Comments - I loved this tune! I felt like I could drive it forever trying to best my previous laps. It did have a bit of understeer on entry that carried to mid corner, but the exit was spot on! I could've used a bit longer gears in 3rd and 4th, but that's just because I hate shifting the DFGT while the wheel is turned because of where the "paddle" buttons are. The brakes were perfect! Excellent Job!!

@joaosoarescso
Best Lap Time - 1:33.665
DC - 10
Tune Comments - BRAVO!!! This tune was perfect, hence the 10! I was really surprised by this one. Not really any understeer, a touch of oversteer in just the right spots. The only "bad" thing I have to say is don't hit the curbs! Then again the point is to stay on the blacktop! Absolutely amazing job taming this car!!

@Ale67
Best Lap Time - 1:33.312
DC - 9.9
Tune Comments - Another amazing tune! Great job! The only reason I didn't give it a 10 is the outside rear tire would glow on exit if I was to hard on the throttle. And once the back end started to go I could not catch it for the life of me! That kept it from being as consistent as I would've liked... Otherwise wonderfully done!!!

Edit: Just fixed some typo's (smart phones really suck for this kind of stuff)
 
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TheInfamousJEW6
@Otaliema
Best Lap Time - 1:33.915
DC - 9.9
Tune Comments - I loved this tune! J felt like I could drive it forever trying to best my previous laps. It did have a bit of understeer on entry that carried to mid corner, but the exit was spot on! I could've used a bit longer gears in 3rd and 4th, but that's just because I hate shifting the DFGT while the wheel is turned because of where the "paddle" buttons are. The brakes were perfect! Excellent Job!!
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Thank you for the feedback and great to hear you loved the car.
I know what you mean on the paddle buttons but hey they work just do a 9 & 3 hold on the wheel when using my transmissions :lol:
 
I wanted to thank you, then I saw you put four others ahead of me. :crazy:

:D

Thanks for the review. Yeah, the transmission thing. I get it, but just don't care enough. The Max Speed slider adjuster does a good job at adjusting ratios. When it, and IF it, becomes a crutch, I'll look into it. 👍
 
I have made the scoring sheet for RUF challenge I have updated the Sport group only at this time. *Note I retained a previous challenge data to make transfers easier to spot errors.*
@lBt_33 @xande1959 @coryclifford @randyrockstiff @Brewguy44 @Otaliema @joaosoarescso
@Ale67
Current rankings with all submitted times
Cape Ring N Lap Time
1 @Brewguy44 1:33.684 +00.000
2 @coryclifford 1:33.875 +00.191
3 @joaosoarescso 1:33.946 +00.262
4 @Ale67 1:33.982 +00.298
5 @Otaliema 1:34.390 +00.707

Cape Ring N DC Score
1 @Brewguy44 9.60
2 @coryclifford 9.53
3 @Otaliema 9.18
4 @joaosoarescso 9.10
5 @lBt_33 8.93

RUF Sport Class Cape Ring N
1:32.635; @Ale67's tune Driven By Lionheart2113

Most Consistent shaunm80 1.493
Fastest Average Lionheart2113 93.403
 
Thanks for the review mate. Happy with the results I've achieved this event. And also big well done to all tuners and testers involved
TheInfamousJEW6
Sorry for the double post but I think my reviews deserve their own post.

All testing was done over 10 laps at Cape ring north with grip set to real, no aides except ABS 1 on a DFGT wheel. :cheers:

@lBt_33
Best Lap Time - 1:34.870
DC - 8.5
Tune Comments - This tune had me going through mood swings. The understeer was horrible in mid corner, had great entry, but would understeer on exit unless I used the throttle, sparingly, to steer it out. If I was too heavy footed the back end would clme around immediately. The brakes were good once I learned to be light footed to avoid lock up. If they locked up the understeer was uncontrollable. I had quite a few red laps due to this tune's unpredictability... Overall a good effort!

@xande1959
Best Lap Time - 1:35.024
DC - 8.0
Tune Comments - Consistently inconsistent is the only way I can describe this tune... The understeer while braking had me sliding into walls all over the track. The brakes were great as long as I was going in a straight line, otherwise I had to be very careful so I wouldn't lose my line. 2nd - 5th gears were good, I never used 1st. When shifting into 6th going up the hill after the round 'a' bout, it would bog down. If the understeer was less this car would've been quick! Good effort sir!

@coryclifford
Best Lap Time - 1:33.883
DC - 9.6
Tune Comments - Wow! Less is more with this tune. Still had some understeer mid corner and a little on exit, but that was solved with a little throttle control. The brakes felt a little weak but I think that's because I was carrying so much more speed through the corners, I just had to brake a touch earlier. The tranny could've used some tuning, but having seen and used some of your other tunes, I assume that's assume that's just not your thing... Great Job!! This is probably a podium tune!

@randyrockstiff
Best Lap Time - 1:34.993
DC - 8.5
Tune Comments - This tune was like a girl with her hair up in a ponytail. She needs to let her hair down and loosen up! It just felt too stiff and uptight. The front end was too planted causing understeer all the way through corners. If I got on the throttle too soon or heavy to try and combat the understeer, I would be punished by the inside rear tire instantly turning red causing me to spin or slide. The trans was set up like a 4 speed, as I never used 1st or 6th. I felt second was too long causing the rear end to break lose at high RPM. Not sure if this was gearing or LSD issue. The brakes felt great and really helped me reel this tune in and break the 1:35 mark. Really good effort, just some gearing and LSD issues. Otherwise it would've been a 1:33 tune!

@Brewguy44
Best Lap Time - 1:33.727
DC - 9.8
Tune Comments - Great tune! This car was planted! It had some understeer on corner exit that caused me to run wide a few times, but was easily worked around once I figured it out. The brakes were ok, maybe could've been a toych stronger, but it could just be the same issue I had with Cory's tune, corner speed! This tranny was a 5 speed, as I never touched sixth, but I don't think it hurt any. This would've been a perfect 10 if it wasn't for the understeer. Great Job! Another podium finisher for sure!

@Otaliema
Best Lap Time - 1:33.915
DC - 9.9
Tune Comments - I loved this tune! J felt like I could drive it forever trying to best my previous laps. It did have a bit of understeer on entry that carried to mid corner, but the exit was spot on! I could've used a bit longer gears in 3rd and 4th, but that's just because I hate shifting the DFGT while the wheel is turned because of where the "paddle" buttons are. The brakes were perfect! Excellent Job!!

@joaosoarescso
Best Lap Time - 1:33.665
DC - 10
Tune Comments - BRAVO!!! This tune was perfect, hence the 10! I was really surprised vy this one. Not really any understeer, a touch of oversteer in just the right spots. The only "bad" thing I have to say is don't hit the curbs! Tgen again the point is to stay on the blacktop! Absolutely amazing job taming this car!!

@Ale67
Best Lap Time - 1:33.312
DC - 9.9
Tune Comments - Another amazing tune! Great job! The only reason I didn't give it a 10 is the outside rwar tire would glow on exit if I was to hard on the throttle. And once the back end started to go I could not catch it for the life of me! That kept it from being as consistent as I would've liked... Otherwise wonderfully done!!!
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