FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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zr1chris
Graphics are really close now. You can't say it's not with a straight face. Physics? I'm sorry but I didn't know you played FM4 already. From what I have heard though the physics are much improved (so that should be really close now too). Feel counts as physics if you ask me.

So, if thats the only things that can be criticized then I think FM4 is in pretty good shape because none of that is as bad as the standard cars or huge frame-rate drops and pixelation.
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FM4 will have it's problems... just wait. Every console game has its problems
 
Luminis
Makes you wonder what kinds of picture will be floating around once a few of the photo mode veterans are getting their hands on FM4. The dicrepancy between good looking FM4 images and not so good looking ones is already visible, in my opinion.

We'll at least be able to compare GT5's finest with Forza 4's finest. Not, you know, GT5'S finest with FM4's "what happens to be available".

Gotta agree, though, the 908 looked better in the GT5 shot.
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This. People don't realize that it's very easy to take poor GT5 shots. Nevermind that PD themselves released shots pre-release that weren't possible in game (multi-car and/or motion-blurred Photo Travel shots). Conversely, it's just as possible to do the same in FM3 (and from what evidence we already have, FM4). But nailing the right angles with the right lighting, in both games, will be a much better comparison than what we have to go on right now 👍
 
shhiny48
How do you know? it's not even out yet...
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T10's reputation speaks for itself. The graphics have been vastly improved (and are extremely close to GT5 premiums) and it doesn't need to be out for us to see it in these photos. If you really think FM4 will have as many defects and flaws as GT5 does then your in denial.
 
shhiny48
How do you know? it's not even out yet...
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It's T10's third effort on this platform. They have a successful formula For this generation of racing games. Tweaks and improvements is what they are doing, sure they'll make some mistakes but nothing huge. PD were largely stepping into the unknown after being out of the loop for so long. It was there first effort at a 'this generation' game and they made some pretty big mistakes. I would be astounded if FM4 had as many issues as GT5.
 
zr1chris
T10's reputation speaks for itself. The graphics have been vastly improved (and are extremely close to GT5 premiums) and it doesn't need to be out for us to see it in these photos. If you really think FM4 will have as many defects and flaws as GT5 does then your in denial.
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again, every game has it's problems...

i do also recall people seeing nicely rendered gt5 pics and thinking OMG before release. Then we were disappointed with the release. FM4 could easily be the same.
 
shhiny48
again, every game has it's problems...

i do also recall people seeing nicely rendered gt5 pics and thinking OMG before release. Then we were disappointment with the release. FM4 could easily be the same.
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Most of these recent pics are coming out of review copies that magazines and websites have. Now the embargo is lifted they are showing the game not T10. This is what we will be able to do when we get the game.
 
shhiny48
again, every game has it's problems...

i do also recall people seeing nicely rendered gt5 pics and thinking OMG before release. Then we were disappointment with the release. FM4 could easily be the same.
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Not really. People were disappointed in GT5 because of the standard cars. FM4 won't be the same because they don't have that problem. All the cars in FM4 are modeled with the same quality.
 
zr1chris
Not really. People were disappointed in GT5 because of the standard cars. FM4 won't be the same because they don't have that problem. All the cars in FM4 are modeled with the same quality.
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Not wanting to throw a spanner in the whole thing - but that's an assumption, not really a fact. Much like there's different levels of quality within GT5's Standards (the XFR and R8 LMS looking far better than GT3-era cars like the Corvette C5R), there's bound to be different levels of quality in FM4 car models too, since some are brand new and others are tinkered with.

That said, they all are at least built to the same principles (multi-piece, interior-capable), so in that sense, absolutely 👍
 
zr1chris
Not really. People were disappointed in GT5 because of the standard cars. FM4 won't be the same because they don't have that problem. All the cars in FM4 are modeled with the same quality.
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I still say that it will have it's flaws just like any other game out there. Hopefully the physics have come a long way from FM2 and 3. Cause they were piss poor in FM3 IMO.

If only there was a game like this;
- GT5's premium car graphics
- Forza's scenery graphics
- iRacing's physics engine
- Nektars Tire Model
- NFS Shift 2U's sounds

That would be heaven in a game...
 
Yea, a game that combines all the great characteristics of those game would be great, but will never happen. For now we must get what we get an try not to throw a fit.

In GT5's case i personally didn't get nearly as much enjoyment out of it as I did with GT3 or 4. The main reasons being that I had played all the Forza titles and expected more in the community aspect and online racing areas, where all the replay value is for me at least.

FM3 was great in most ways, but still has disappointing flaws that have carried over, maybe even to FM4. I.E. the lack of body roll still evident in the muscle car vid. Allthough FM4 will surely have so many things in regard to community/online play, that PD just fails to know customers are interested in.

The whole physics argument is a good point, but what good are really near perfect feeling physics if the game itself is complete bore. I love racing online with people from around the world with mics and only inches apart all around the track. In GT online races were often laggy, even non laggy races would be suck due to all the other racers cars pivoting on a invisible pole through the middle of their car like a carousel pony, and the poor collision detection. Save a online replay of FM3 and GT5 and see the ridiculous difference. These are the things that matter to me, that's why I'm more excited for FM4. I will surely enjoy it more. 👍
 
shhiny48
again, every game has it's problems...

i do also recall people seeing nicely rendered gt5 pics and thinking OMG before release. Then we were disappointed with the release. FM4 could easily be the same.
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You just restated what you said many post ago...and ZR1 told you that you were right every game has its problems and FM4 wont be different. And as others have said to you...Turn 10 has more experience in certain dept. that PD are just getting their hands messy with. I'm surprised -But shouldn't be- at how people can't live with the fact that PD might get beat this time by another racing game. Oh well, so what if GT loses to FM4, that just means they will try that much harder for GT6. One thing is for sure...GT5 will cause some GT gamers to by a forza game for the first time ever.
 
shhiny48
I still say that it will have it's flaws just like any other game out there. Hopefully the physics have come a long way from FM2 and 3. Cause they were piss poor in FM3 IMO.

If only there was a game like this;
- GT5's premium car graphics
- Forza's car graphics consistency (no standards and prems)- Forza's scenery graphics
- iRacing's physics engine
- Nektars Tire Model
- NFS Shift 2U's sounds
- A solid commitment to included features (no halfassing of features)
That would be heaven in a game...
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That's your opinion of course. A few million others , including myself, feel quite differently.

I fixed that for you, in that perfect game we don't want trash like stnd/prm kreeping in right?


shhiny48
FM4 will have it's problems... just wait. Every console game has its problems
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shhiny48
How do you know? it's not even out yet...
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zr1chris
Not really. People were disappointed in GT5 because of the standard cars. FM4 won't be the same because they don't have that problem. All the cars in FM4 are modeled with the same quality.
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Well...people were dissapointed, not only because of the standards, but the lack of response from PD regarding updates that really gives us value. We were pissed off because the removed things from the game, that existed in previous titles, and then try to buy us with stuff like racing suits, helmets, museum cards, etc, and other non valuable adding stuff

Forza 3 was also a dissapointment some how, because they indeed screw up on alot of stuff as well. Forza 3 was also kind buggy, specially the traction, that strangely changed once you entered the tuning screen...not good turn 10. Not to mention the joke ass drag racing, that was poorly implemented, but highly sought after. Also the lack of public custom servers. By judging on forza 3, i dont have any trust for turn 10, hope that will change when i buy/find forza 4.

Gt5 according to me, feelt more stable, and many bugs got fixed. Only problems was that sought after features was missing (take a look at gt5 drag tuning thread), and still missing, and still Kaz hasnt responded to us. We live in a age, where big companies are trying to buy us cheap, realy sad. Even more sad if we as consumers buy their bs, and not demanding service.
 
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shhiny48
A few million? That's probably a bit stretched don't you think...
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Considering GT4 sold a couple few million plus another two million...so they're going of those number then no it's not too stretched. A few ten or few hundered million would be outrageous.
 
ChadSpeed
I love racing online with people from around the world with mics and only inches apart all around the track. In GT online races were often laggy, even non laggy races would be suck due to all the other racers cars pivoting on a invisible pole through the middle of their car like a carousel pony, and the poor collision detection. Save a online replay of FM3 and GT5 and see the ridiculous difference. These are the things that matter to me, that's why I'm more excited for FM4. I will surely enjoy it more. 👍
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This to the umpteenth degree. I can show you a bunch of videos of online races with my group and they are always smooth. Don't get me wrong, we've had some bad connection days but to be honest they were few and FAAAAAR between. But with GT5 what chadspeed said was the overwhelming norm. It made (and the fact that PD went back on their word about uploading video) doing videos for me a no-go. I only did one multiplayer vid for GT5 and by multiplayer I mean only 2 of us on the track. Pretty bad.


A sample of the FM3 multiplayer vids I made:





The only GT5 "multiplayer" that was worth doing:



And it's not like I've went in hating on GT5. Infact I got the game earlier than most. Probably like a week earlier. I posted this vid after I had it for a while, check the date:

 
FuzzyFassbender
The GT forums are the reverse - Forza bashers. It's all fine as it's just opinions.
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Oh, not even. You must have missed the remarks about suggesting the name of the boards changed to the "We Hate Gran Turismo Forums." :lol:

There are some very fannish claims going on for Forza 4, to one extent or another that it won't have any issues, or issues of any consequence. As someone who has had to endure hair pulling from just about EVERY Microsoft product for fifteen years now, I can't see how anyone can say that about F4 without crossed fingers. Now, this could be the first MS product to work as advertised with almost nothing to wince over, but I've been down this path through all three Forzas, so my fingers are taped crossed.

As with all things Forza, we'll find out in a couple weeks whether or not Jeremy Clarkson will be the heart and soul of the game, and not just the voice - you know, a man who's opinion of himself is greatly exaggerated.
 
Tenacious D
Oh, not even. You must have missed the remarks about suggesting the name of the boards changed to the "We Hate Gran Turismo Forums." :lol:

There are some very fannish claims going on for Forza 4, to one extent or another that it won't have any issues, or issues of any consequence. As someone who has had to endure hair pulling from just about EVERY Microsoft product for fifteen years now, I can't see how anyone can say that about F4 without crossed fingers. Now, this could be the first MS product to work as advertised with almost nothing to wince over, but I've been down this path through all three Forzas, so my fingers are taped crossed.

As with all things Forza, we'll find out in a couple weeks whether or not Jeremy Clarkson will be the heart and soul of the game, and not just the voice - you know, a man who's opinion of himself is greatly exaggerated.
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Exactly. I always forget that FM is mostly owned by Microsoft. I think. That's just a fail in general if MS made it...

Now if Google made a console and full scale racing sim it might actually be done properly without bugs...
 
Tenacious D
There are some very fannish claims going on for Forza 4, to one extent or another that it won't have any issues, or issues of any consequence. As someone who has had to endure hair pulling from just about EVERY Microsoft product for fifteen years now, I can't see how anyone can say that about F4 without crossed fingers.
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Nobody said there wouldn't be any problems at all. The point is that there won't be the major flaws that GT5 had and still has. One of GT5's biggest issues imo was that yes they said there would be standard and premium cars but never once posted a pic of a standard car or said that they would be GT4 level graphics. This is a problem that you simply won't see in FM4. The other thing was the online glitching. Yes Forza has its glitches which included being able to drive through the warehouse wall but the secret driving through walls and having the entire appearance of the game changed into some strange looking Sci-Fi setting in GT5 to run off laps in a couple seconds was on another level.
 
shhiny48
Now if Google made a console and full scale racing sim it might actually be done properly without bugs...
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It'd just, you know, steal your information without telling you ;)
 
SlipZtrEm
It'd just, you know, steal your information without telling you ;)
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True, but a small price to pay for such an amazing thing that could happen. I feel like almost everything Google makes is flawless. Might just be me though...
 
Tenacious D
There are some very fannish claims going on for Forza 4, to one extent or another that it won't have any issues, or issues of any consequence.
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See, that's what makes debating here quite annoying, at times.

Is that bolded part what you read into other statements or did you make that up from scratch?

From what I've seen, there has been little claims about FM4 being utterly flawless, just people expecting it to come without flaws that are as glaring as the ones GT5 launched with. And that is hardly an impossible proposation. In fact, it's reasonable to assume that most games of similar scope and budget would launch without problems as glaring as the majority of the cars being locked out of features, lacking cockpit view and not looking like current-gen stuff. That's just an example, of course. But I think you'll get the idea (well, I actually don't. I'd assume you would've already, otherwise).

What we've seen and read, though, suggests that T10 addressed a lot of the issues people had with FM3. Small images? We get Big Sots. AWD cars being dominant? We get a revised PI system so that they get a higher PI in comparison. Body roll wasn't enough? Look at some of the muscle car pictures, there's plenty of roll now.

Does that mean there won't be any flaws? Absolutely not. Does that give us a general idea about how T10 approached their game? Yes, it does.

And so far, I have neither seen, read or experienced anything that could be likened to the kind of flaws seen in GT5. Which isn't all that suprising, to me, anyways.

So, go ahead and keep basing your argument on a statement that wasn't even made if you feel it helps you further your point...
 
Luminis
See, that's what makes debating here quite annoying, at times.

Is that bolded part what you read into other statements or did you make that up from scratch?

From what I've seen, there has been little claims about FM4 being utterly flawless, just people expecting it to come without flaws that are as glaring as the ones GT5 launched with. And that is hardly an impossible proposation. In fact, it's reasonable to assume that most games of similar scope and budget would launch without problems as glaring as the majority of the cars being locked out of features, lacking cockpit view and not looking like current-gen stuff. That's just an example, of course. But I think you'll get the idea (well, I actually don't. I'd assume you would've already, otherwise).

What we've seen and read, though, suggests that T10 addressed a lot of the issues people had with FM3. Small images? We get Big Sots. AWD cars being dominant? We get a revised PI system so that they get a higher PI in comparison. Body roll wasn't enough? Look at some of the muscle car pictures, there's plenty of roll now.

Does that mean there won't be any flaws? Absolutely not. Does that give us a general idea about how T10 approached their game? Yes, it does.

And so far, I have neither seen, read or experienced anything that could be likened to the kind of flaws seen in GT5. Which isn't all that suprising, to me, anyways.

So, go ahead and keep basing your argument on a statement that wasn't even made if you feel it helps you further your point...
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I feel like you work for T10...
 
Logic out the window in 5...4...3...2...1...LETS GET STOOPID :dunce:

Seriously though, count me as someone who thinks FM4 isn't perfect but will be better than GT5 was supposed to be.


shhiny48
I feel like you work for T10...
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I feel like you're a fanboy....
 
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Luminis
Brilliant argument. Now, if you would care to attack the point I made, instead of myself, that'd get things going, no?

Then again, it's probably easier to just hiss and scream, right? :sly:
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Luminis just forget it with these guys. All you're gonna get is a bunch of middle intelligent guys who recently found out how to be semantically clever playing word games from now until FM4 releases and beyond trying to marginalize any enjoyment you get from the game. If FM4 turns out to be a big GT5 you and I will be the first to come to the forums with our displeasure, if not we'll be enjoying ourselves till FM5. If the game flops we wont need any comments from the peanut gallery as to why it flops, it'll just flop on it's own as we've seen with other games.
 

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