FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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cuco33
You know you are running out of arguments when you disappear for 2 weeks and come back complaining about the sun. Forza 4 has been out since October 2011 and this is the first time I have ever heard a complaint about the sun. :dunce:

FM4 has a greatly improved lighting engine. Still not on par with GT5 and has the occasional issue of blowouts on tracks and cars. But you know I was just watching Grand Am at Circuit of Americas this weekend and the same glare, same overblown lighting reflection from one of the straights was present similar to what you get in FM4.

SuperShouden, you are trying too hard... lol


In other news.. didn't know that fp was merging with gtp. I think it is a good decision. I like fp but always felt it could have been just another more expanded section on gtp.
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"Greatly improved lighting system"? I guess by that they mean "The sun has exploded, so there's more light, now, so things are brighter and shinier than FM3." And I've not run out of arguments. A lot of my arguments are valid, but, since everyone likes Forza so much, I get flamed whether I have a valid argument or not. Which is why I don't post in here that much.

But...the sun is pretty terrible in FM4. Not even a sun really, as I said, more of an explosion of a sun.
 
I have to agree with him. Forza's lighting tends to be very, very overdone and overexposed at times. Yes, asphalt is shiny under certain conditions, but it's so bright so frequently on Forza that at times it doesn't even seem to be reflecting light from the sun (since the sun's position in the sky isn't always the factor determining it) so much as emitting its own light.
 
SuperShouden
"Greatly improved lighting system"? I guess by that they mean "The sun has exploded, so there's more light, now, so things are brighter and shinier than FM3." And I've not run out of arguments. A lot of my arguments are valid, but, since everyone likes Forza so much, I get flamed whether I have a valid argument or not. Which is why I don't post in here that much.

But...the sun is pretty terrible in FM4. Not even a sun really, as I said, more of an explosion of a sun.
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I agree about the lighting, GTs looks natural. It's something Turn 10 need to work on, it is the first time they used image based lighting so maybe it will be improved for 5
 
I believe the lighting was improved to some extent in Horizon. Still not quite on the same level as GT5, but not over-exposed like in FM4.

And even with the brightness turned down, the sky seems to be emitting light as intense as the sun's from most directions in FM4. Having excessive amounts of light reflect off the asphalt only bothers me on a couple of tracks though, but it's not a major hindrance.
 
SuperShouden
"Greatly improved lighting system"? I guess by that they mean "The sun has exploded, so there's more light, now, so things are brighter and shinier than FM3." And I've not run out of arguments. A lot of my arguments are valid, but, since everyone likes Forza so much, I get flamed whether I have a valid argument or not. Which is why I don't post in here that much.

But...the sun is pretty terrible in FM4. Not even a sun really, as I said, more of an explosion of a sun.
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You obviously haven't played previous Forzas then because FM4 is much better than previous versious in the lighting department. Like I (and others) have said it is still not on par to GTs and doesn't happen all the time.
I have personally had pics I have taken ruined due to the blown out lighting, like this one:
Forza96.jpg

Or this one:
Forza123.jpg

So I know a bit how FM4s new lighting engine is improved but still has issues that need improvement.
This however happens in real life racing, as I explained Grand Am Circuit of Americas just this weekend had one of the straights blinding like below with major track glare you see in FM4:
Forza130.jpg


And no you don't have other points because everytime you come here trolling you get shut down and disappear for a few weeks before making another return. Your latest one about nuclear exploding sun or whatever extreme point you are trying to make.
In GT5 I recently built a midnight purple Nissan Sileghty (standard) and the same great lighting engine and color pallet in GT5 is there. Car looks great up until it shows the panel gaps of hood or fenders being a staggered step poor ps2esque quality line. At least all the cars in FM4 regardless if carried over from FM1, new to series on disk, or new to series via DLC are built to the same quality and have the same features throughout unlike GT5.
 
@Above, you realize that the one picture you used as a "good example" of Forza's lighting is:
A) at sunrise when the light has been turned down and actually looks reasonable.
B) is more of the sun's reflection which, while I admit looks very nice, is not exactly what I think many are actually complaining about here.

If I'm not mistaken, most people are upset at how the lighting in Forza looks like somebody decided to move the sun to about half the distance to the earth so that everything is blindingly bright, which is what I see as well.

Especially the blue colors, like the sky. They seem to just pierce your eyes and burn and are way way overdone.

The lighting system isn't totally terrible in Forza, as in the picture in the previous post proves it can have very beautiful effects in the right situation.

But everything is just way too bright, it's a shame because Forza has some beautiful car models and they would look so much better if the lighting engine was more refined.
 
My mistake, I should've known... because one track is representative of the entire game.

SuperShouden
"Greatly improved lighting system"? I guess by that they mean "The sun has exploded, so there's more light, now, so things are brighter and shinier than FM3."
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At this point, I assume you only aim for the ridiculous, exaggerated arguments because you have no valid ones. It is a much better lighting system than FM3's, a cursory glance at both games back to back should make this apparent.

Laguna is too bright, though I can imagine their reasoning; it's bright as hell there in real life a lot, too. Perhaps they're trying to convey how difficult it is to see out in Monterey like that? I'm sure there's better ways, but considering how much more glare is at Laguna versus every other track, it's not unreasonable to assume it was intentional.

And I've not run out of arguments. A lot of my arguments are valid, but, since everyone likes Forza so much, I get flamed whether I have a valid argument or not. Which is why I don't post in here that much.
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...this all coming from the person who went on a sweary, insult-laden rant about other people because they don't agree with him. If anybody is getting "flamed", it's people who have the audacity to present logic to you.

Hyperbole aside, yes, the sun is over-done in FM4, particularly at Laguna. Perhaps if you presented your points in a more adult manner, people might take you seriously.
 
Sebring has some lighting issues for sure in cockpit view. Oddly the exposure changes dependant on view it seems. Hood cam is a deferent exposure again. I've had the blinding white light on track happen to me.

I agree that GT has a better lighting system but it does suffer a similar issue in certain circumstances. The exit from the tunnel on high speed ring is a prime example. Blinding white light just before you leave the tunnel is not realistic either. GT does edge the lighting model overall though.
 
Spagetti69
I agree that GT has a better lighting system but it does suffer a similar issue in certain circumstances. The exit from the tunnel on high speed ring is a prime example. Blinding white light just before you leave the tunnel is not realistic either.
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In fact it is.

tunnelarjc1.gif


http://www.schreder.com/SiteCollect...chreder-Tunnel-Lighting-Catalogue-English.pdf

Specially if you consider that the game view is represented throught a hybrid from a camera and human view (lens flares, lens glares at night, head movement, etc).

 
Scaff
And you think the human eye works in the same way when you leave tunnels the length of the ones in GT?
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I think the one on Azur was pretty close to real life. Not 100% exact but pretty close.
 
Lock2Lock
I think the one on Azur was pretty close to real life. Not 100% exact but pretty close.
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In over twenty years of driving I've never come out of a tunnel and been totally blinded by the sunlight in the way that a few games represent it. Even coming out of alpine tunnels (which are miles in length) into bright sunshine its not as extreme as is represented.
 
Scaff
In over twenty years of driving I've never come out of a tunnel and been totally blinded by the sunlight in the way that a few games represent it. Even coming out of alpine tunnels (which are miles in length) into bright sunshine its not as extreme as is represented.
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Yeah not as drastic. But i watched the episode of Top Gear where they went to the track and when they came out of the tunnel it was insanely bright at the edge of it.
 
Lock2Lock
Yeah not as drastic. But i watched the episode of Top Gear where they went to the track and when they came out of the tunnel it was insanely bright at the edge of it.
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That probably has more to do with the camera optics than it does the human eye. Personally when I lived in Italy in 2009 I drove to Rome a handful of times passing some 30-35 tunnels each way and when the sun was shinning it's most it never shined as bright as it's portrayed in some games or TG.

BTW, Circuit of Americas has a few sections that during the right time of day on a bright sunny day will shine the track surface like you see in FM4. I was looking for the Grand Am track run that aired during this weekend's event which showed it perfectly on one of the straights how blinding it can be but couldn't find it. You can see an example of it at 0:17 in this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfsPOo779Ww
Still I think FM4 has at moments where the shine on track but moreso on cars is a bit much. See my airborne Alfa 155 shot that was ruined due to excessive bloom. I can only hope that FM5 is on par with GT5's lighting engine and color palette.
 
cuco33
That probably has more to do with the camera optics than it does the human eye. Personally when I lived in Italy in 2009 I drove to Rome a handful of times passing some 30-35 tunnels each way and when the sun was shinning it's most it never shined as bright as it's portrayed in some games or TG.

BTW, Circuit of Americas has a few sections that during the right time of day on a bright sunny day will shine the track surface like you see in FM4. I was looking for the Grand Am track run that aired during this weekend's event which showed it perfectly on one of the straights how blinding it can be but couldn't find it. You can see an example of it at 0:17 in this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfsPOo779Ww
Still I think FM4 has at moments where the shine on track but moreso on cars is a bit much. See my airborne Alfa 155 shot that was ruined due to excessive bloom. I can only hope that FM5 is on par with GT5's lighting engine and color palette.
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True true. I totally forgot about the bright light on the show was from the camera adjusting hahaha
 
Lock2Lock
True true. I totally forgot about the bright light on the show was from the camera adjusting hahaha
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Yep - the human eye will adjust to changes in light intensity far, far quicker that a camera will, in addition the human eye is capable of handling a much wider contrast and brightness range than a camera as well.
 
Scaff
Yep - the human eye will adjust to changes in light intensity far, far quicker that a camera will, in addition the human eye is capable of handling a much wider contrast and brightness range than a camera as well.
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Yeah sometimes I forget about the cameras while watching Top Gear.... Such a good show
 
SlipZtrEm
My mistake, I should've known... because one track is representative of the entire game.



At this point, I assume you only aim for the ridiculous, exaggerated arguments because you have no valid ones. It is a much better lighting system than FM3's, a cursory glance at both games back to back should make this apparent.

Laguna is too bright, though I can imagine their reasoning; it's bright as hell there in real life a lot, too. Perhaps they're trying to convey how difficult it is to see out in Monterey like that? I'm sure there's better ways, but considering how much more glare is at Laguna versus every other track, it's not unreasonable to assume it was intentional.



...this all coming from the person who went on a sweary, insult-laden rant about other people because they don't agree with him. If anybody is getting "flamed", it's people who have the audacity to present logic to you.

Hyperbole aside, yes, the sun is over-done in FM4, particularly at Laguna. Perhaps if you presented your points in a more adult manner, people might take you seriously.
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Wow! I translated this as "You're an idiot. You're completely right, but you're still and idiot." What is this, Top Gear?
 
Top Gear: GTP

Is it just me or would that probably be better than half the stuff on TV these days?
 
KinLM
Top Gear: GTP

Is it just me or would that probably be better than half the stuff on TV these days?
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Pleeease, Top Gear: GTP would be better than anything on TV, period. 👍

On Topic:
I agree that FM4's lighting can be overdone/overexposed at times, in fact I think it is at its worst on Bernese Alps. It is also FM4's lighting that can give the impression that the cars look like they're made of plastic, which they're not. GT's lighting engine, while not 100% perfect, is still superior. (In my opinion, of course).
 
I think only the most diehard fanboys would say that FM has better lighting than GT5, it clearly doesn't but it's getting there and isn't as bad as someone is making out. Remember whilst putting out only one less main game T10 have been at this for a lot less time than PD, it takes time to get things right.
 
At least T10're recognising their games' shortcomings in this area and are moving in the right direction. I hope this trend continues in Forza 5.

A Top Gear run by GTP mods would be far more accurate and less fantasy based than the TV version. I think Tanner Foust is great though, more personality than The Stig. :D
 
Top Gear GTP sounds like a great idea! I'd watch that.

On the lighting topic, it's a bit silly to think about how T10 hyped up the image based lighting and all that - and seemingly never realized that it juest doesn't look mindblowingly realistic. They'll hopefully focus more on that than technicalities for FM5.
 
One thing I am wondering (and the reason to which I mentioned that Top Gear episode earlier) is how hard is it to make the lighting to where it is more from a human eye perspective. I mean it is realistic to a HD camera/high end camera recording driving through the course (if you get what I mean).
 

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