FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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So, according to Scaff, if I am reading this right, we can indeed discuss ALL the pro's and cons, as well as features of both games. Be it the subpar Ring in Forza, or the 800 standard cars in GT5.

Am I reading you correctly Scaff?
 
Sorry but standards exist in GT5. 80% of them fall under this category. It sucks there's a disparity but one shouldn't only be focusing on the premiums. One should also note how gorgeous premiums can be just as how last gen the standards are. It's not 10 or 20 cars. It's 800, almost double what Forza 3's count was. There's even race series in the career that can only be used with standard cars so you can't neglect them at all. To me they shouldn't be swept under the rug but in a way I'm glad they are there.
This , this , this and a whole lotta this. I figured OK as long as I don't have to use those cars no big deal. Then series after series it was crap car after crap car. That REALLY pissed me off. PD had to know there were people who wanted no part of those cars and to make it mandatory to use them in the career was stupid.

So, according to Scaff, if I am reading this right, we can indeed discuss ALL the pro's and cons, as well as features of both games. Be it the subpar Ring in Forza, or the 800 standard cars in GT5.

Am I reading you correctly Scaff?
Don't see why not.
 
There have been numerous times i have read that competition is good and will help both games in the future so, exploring the idea of one company going belly up will lead to a stagnation and the reliance of lesser titles to endure.
Both games should be looked on as doing what can be acheived in the face of interference. Oh yes i hear you for those saying they can't enjoy both racing titles at the same time...your loss. The same problem exists within the FPS and RPG titles. The topic was created so that infiltration into other threads is neutered. That means Forza and Gran Turismo are here to stay and all the repeating of negatives are numbing. If there is a feeling among you that is downing your perception of playing these titles, i,m sure you could come up with a balanced critique without sounding to be immature. Nothing is wrong in being like children, they have fun and we let them but we will be ready to punish their diverse behaviour. They are both great titles on great consoles and those who continually play them have no qualms especially those without internet connections.
 
The thread is 82 pages long. what haven't you discussed already

The more that gets unveiled for Forza 4, the longer this discussion will go.
Likewise, the more that gets patched for GT5, the longer this discussion will go.

Some like to contribute to the discussion, others chime in with snide remarks
;)
 
This discussion wont end until they stop making one of the games and I personally hope that never happens.
 
How Autovista will fair against Gt photolocations.
I thought we had :odd:

Well, we had the debate about graphics in general, and I think that covered that. But, anyways: FM4's AutoVista looks to be more detailed, but GT5 will likely offer more cars to be used with the Photo Travel. It's a trade off...

But since AutoVista offers more than just taking pictures, I'll most likely prefer it to PhotoTravel.

But, I still think that whole segregation between different game modes is silly. If they can't pull AutoVista/Photo Travel quality off thoughout the game, they should consider not doing that in the first place. I hate this "Oh look, we put next-gen cars in your current-gen game! They only work in a quarter of it, though!" fad. Sadly, though, eye candy is important enough, it seems, that it warrents to go that far to make the games look better than they actually are.

One can only make the best out of it, though...
 
AutoVista needs background DLC if the game doesn't come with other backgrounds. The garage is cool, but a tad stale after a while.
 
AutoVista needs background DLC if the game doesn't come with other backgrounds. The garage is cool, but a tad stale after a while.

Wouldn't be too concerned about that. Already confirmed in the leaked trailer. T10 is good. They just showed us the most boring and simple one.

xf4Mq.gif


I hope this desert one will return.
 
woah slow down. my post was aimed at bogie only. should have clearly placed his name. i'm all for more discussion. ganging up is so immature. need i remind you i play both games and enjoy them equally. who would agree they are equal?
not a lot and not a few. have no intention to put one above the other as both are needed for this thread to exist.
 
woah slow down. my post was aimed at bogie only. should have clearly placed his name. i'm all for more discussion. ganging up is so immature. need i remind you i play both games and enjoy them equally. who would agree they are equal?
not a lot and not a few. have no intention to put one above the other as both are needed for this thread to exist.

Dont worry i'm not ganging up on anybody. I think fm3 and gt5 are equal but fm4 will take a leap ahead. Period. I bought the ps3 for gt5 so i've got a few miles behind me in both games.👍
 
Exactly Hotspitta. Forza 4 is next on the menu and it should be a leap ahead. i am expecting Forza 4 to do just that. The improvements are clearly visable. I would like Forza to gain more cred and sales by xmas and see the competition really sweat.
 
AutoVista needs background DLC if the game doesn't come with other backgrounds. The garage is cool, but a tad stale after a while.

Forza does have changeable backgrounds look here at about 6:05 it says change homespace http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fJGWZuUz1I . So backgrounds are changeable. If you guys want to talk about standards lets talk about standards. GT5 has the highest abundance of horribly modeled licensed cars this gen. Your turn.
 
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How Autovista will fair against Gt photolocations.

Apples and Oranges.

Avista is real-time car-exploaration utility aimed into combined audio/video/interactive/informational experience.

Photomode is just that - taking static photos of cars on fixed locations.

Altghouh people will tend to compare those 2 to death, it is really not a matter of comparisment.

But if Autovista will allow photo-export than comparisment will be possible, toghether with comparisment of in-race ohotos in both games.
 
But, I still think that whole segregation between different game modes is silly. If they can't pull AutoVista/Photo Travel quality off thoughout the game, they should consider not doing that in the first place.
Nah. The problem is not "segregation" per se. There will always be cars that receive more attention than others, special partnership cars, cover cars, you name it. The problem is when this segregation has an impact on the basic gameplay of the game (lack of cockpit view, less tuning options).

And in the case of GT5, this problem is aggravated by the fact that the standards are basically GT4 direct ports.

But I don't see the issue of having special eye candy for only a portion of the car roster.

It's only eye candy. Eye candy is optional.
 
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+1 Nice!!!! :) Thanks!
Actually, we know the "homespace" will be selectable. But this "homespace" is just the equivalent of FM3's "screen saver". We do not know if we'll be able to change the background/location of AutoVista. Keep in mind that AutoVista is a completely separate game mode.
 
So, according to Scaff, if I am reading this right, we can indeed discuss ALL the pro's and cons, as well as features of both games. Be it the subpar Ring in Forza, or the 800 standard cars in GT5.

Am I reading you correctly Scaff?
You are. As long as your posts follow the AUP and thread guidelines then the staff have no intention of stating any subject as off limits (as long as those subjects follow the AUP and thread guidelines).


I don't see why not either, but I am getting the impression from some that some things are forbidden to discuss or compare.
Those who don't have a mandate has no business stating what can and can't be discussed. Only the staff can do that and only within the guidelines set to us by the site owner.


Scaff
 
About this whole... 'Multi' physics thing of GT5. I believe I have covered this before in another thread.

Now, I believe that Gumpert locked the driver's seat of the Apollo in one place, so that no one could spoil the weight distribution of the car by altering the seating position and therefore the longitudinal position of the rather hefty lump of meat piloting it. I like that. It's a like it or lump it situation. I mean sure, you can alter the pedals and steering wheel position... Sort of like turning the aids on or off in Forza. But you can never alter the makeup of the car to change the basic seating position itself. It is the same for everyone, a constant reality. This is Forza. It's physics engine may not be entirely accurate, but it is alive and reactive, you can see a readout of what is going on, see the tires flex, monitor heat and wear... Softer compounds heat up more quickly but are prone to overheating and accelerated wear, you can watch suspension deflection occur and cambers change... You create your own situations on the fly, via action and reaction in the game world. For the most part the engine handles it well, rollovers, collisions, suspension bottoming out, it's all handled properly (whether it's realistic or not is a different matter).

Then take GT5, where you are left to figure it out for yourself, but with everything helpfully labelled. GT5 has no set physics model, nothing works actively beneath the surface. You chose a basic set of parameters that feel right for you, then the game hashes it into a make believe realm, where everything is very odd and statistically explainable. Like every rank of tire incrementally increasing lateral grip by 0.6g, or a Mini Cooper having the same grip rating as a Corvette ZR1 on the same tires. It might 'feel' right, but that is because you have set it yourself. It is an illusion, nothing more, nothing happens to the car in real time. It is stagnant. Nothing is truely monitored or active, no tire wear means no real monitoring of friction on the road and therefore a guesstimate of what should happen at best. When anything happens out of the ordinary we see the pre programmed script no longer fit the action. This is why the cars roll over like they are in treacle, wobble when they spin, like an unbalanced top. It is also why fitting a carbon prop shaft or lighter clutch makes no discernable difference to the overall weight of the car. Because it does not matter to the game.

I guess that this works for some people. The subconscious is easily pleased and comforted by seeing and feeling what it expects, and the conscious is easily fooled by what the subconscious has quietly set up. What I am driving at is I believe that GT5 in physics is a master stroke of mental subversion, an armchair that swallows you whole and fits to your shape. You should never speak of realism regarding any game, however anyone that thinks GT5 is anyway more complicated or realistic than Forza is clearly having a laugh. I own both consoles, have both games, most versions of both actually and I've never gotten on with the driving portion of GT. It feels stone dead to me.
 
I'm a huge FM fan, I played FM until I couldn't anymore, and I still play!
But the more I play GT5, the more I love it.
Not saying its better, because I am always a Forza first kind of guy, but Gran Turismo satisfies me in ways Forza can't, while Forza does the same for me that GT can't/
I've owned every Forza, except the first since When the first came out I was still playing GT4.
I've owned every Gran Turismo except the first as well, and I've loved all of the GT series except for 3, for lack of cars but I still loved that game.
In fact, I might hook up my old PS2 to play some GT3 later on
:D
 
About this whole... 'Multi' physics thing of GT5. I believe I have covered this before in another thread.

Now, I believe that Gumpert locked the driver's seat of the Apollo in one place, so that no one could spoil the weight distribution of the car by altering the seating position and therefore the longitudinal position of the rather hefty lump of meat piloting it. I like that. It's a like it or lump it situation. I mean sure, you can alter the pedals and steering wheel position... Sort of like turning the aids on or off in Forza. But you can never alter the makeup of the car to change the basic seating position itself. It is the same for everyone, a constant reality. This is Forza. It's physics engine may not be entirely accurate, but it is alive and reactive, you can see a readout of what is going on, see the tires flex, monitor heat and wear... Softer compounds heat up more quickly but are prone to overheating and accelerated wear, you can watch suspension deflection occur and cambers change... You create your own situations on the fly, via action and reaction in the game world. For the most part the engine handles it well, rollovers, collisions, suspension bottoming out, it's all handled properly (whether it's realistic or not is a different matter).

Then take GT5, where you are left to figure it out for yourself, but with everything helpfully labelled. GT5 has no set physics model, nothing works actively beneath the surface. You chose a basic set of parameters that feel right for you, then the game hashes it into a make believe realm, where everything is very odd and statistically explainable. Like every rank of tire incrementally increasing lateral grip by 0.6g, or a Mini Cooper having the same grip rating as a Corvette ZR1 on the same tires. It might 'feel' right, but that is because you have set it yourself. It is an illusion, nothing more, nothing happens to the car in real time. It is stagnant. Nothing is truely monitored or active, no tire wear means no real monitoring of friction on the road and therefore a guesstimate of what should happen at best. When anything happens out of the ordinary we see the pre programmed script no longer fit the action. This is why the cars roll over like they are in treacle, wobble when they spin, like an unbalanced top. It is also why fitting a carbon prop shaft or lighter clutch makes no discernable difference to the overall weight of the car. Because it does not matter to the game.

I guess that this works for some people. The subconscious is easily pleased and comforted by seeing and feeling what it expects, and the conscious is easily fooled by what the subconscious has quietly set up. What I am driving at is I believe that GT5 in physics is a master stroke of mental subversion, an armchair that swallows you whole and fits to your shape. You should never speak of realism regarding any game, however anyone that thinks GT5 is anyway more complicated or realistic than Forza is clearly having a laugh. I own both consoles, have both games, most versions of both actually and I've never gotten on with the driving portion of GT. It feels stone dead to me.

Funny, I feel completely and totally opposite.

Just because you don't have cool little 'graphical readouts' of what the physics engine is doing, doesn't mean that it isn't working hard beneath the surface. GT5 is the second most realistic feeling engine I've ever felt in a game, next to iracing. I've heard netkar pro is also good, but I've never tried it. I'm sorry, but Forza uses an absolutely archaic physics engine (still feels identical to FM1) It feels sloppy, not particularly realistic, and not really fun. The cars area all way too easy to handle on the limit, and the limits are very quickly reached.

The only real flaws I find with GT5 are low speed tire behavior and how other objects interact with the car. It does feel a *bit* sterile occasionally, but I think it's fantastic overall.
 
Thats very opinionated, you are clearly having fun with a GT54 style of communist, we tell you what to do type game.
Forza has so many more options, and he is right it tells you exactly what the car is doing.
YOu think race teams adjust their cars solely on feel?
They have numbers with laptops that can read exactly what the car does when, just like Forza.
Btw, didnt the Cosmo come with a 3 rotor?
 
Thats very opinionated, you are clearly having fun with a GT54 style of communist, we tell you what to do type game.
Forza has so many more options, and he is right it tells you exactly what the car is doing.
YOu think race teams adjust their cars solely on feel?
They have numbers with laptops that can read exactly what the car does when, just like Forza.
Btw, didnt the Cosmo come with a 3 rotor?

This entire thread is very opinionated, is that a problem?

Did you just call me a communist? :scared:

Race teams do a LOT of adjusting based on feel.

The Cosmo was offered with either a 13B-REW or a 20B-REW (3 rotor)
 
About this whole... 'Multi' physics thing of GT5. I believe I have covered this before in another thread.

Now, I believe that Gumpert locked the driver's seat of the Apollo in one place, so that no one could spoil the weight distribution of the car by altering the seating position and therefore the longitudinal position of the rather hefty lump of meat piloting it. I like that. It's a like it or lump it situation. I mean sure, you can alter the pedals and steering wheel position... Sort of like turning the aids on or off in Forza. But you can never alter the makeup of the car to change the basic seating position itself. It is the same for everyone, a constant reality. This is Forza. It's physics engine may not be entirely accurate, but it is alive and reactive, you can see a readout of what is going on, see the tires flex, monitor heat and wear... Softer compounds heat up more quickly but are prone to overheating and accelerated wear, you can watch suspension deflection occur and cambers change... You create your own situations on the fly, via action and reaction in the game world. For the most part the engine handles it well, rollovers, collisions, suspension bottoming out, it's all handled properly (whether it's realistic or not is a different matter).

Then take GT5, where you are left to figure it out for yourself, but with everything helpfully labelled. GT5 has no set physics model, nothing works actively beneath the surface. You chose a basic set of parameters that feel right for you, then the game hashes it into a make believe realm, where everything is very odd and statistically explainable. Like every rank of tire incrementally increasing lateral grip by 0.6g, or a Mini Cooper having the same grip rating as a Corvette ZR1 on the same tires. It might 'feel' right, but that is because you have set it yourself. It is an illusion, nothing more, nothing happens to the car in real time. It is stagnant. Nothing is truely monitored or active, no tire wear means no real monitoring of friction on the road and therefore a guesstimate of what should happen at best. When anything happens out of the ordinary we see the pre programmed script no longer fit the action. This is why the cars roll over like they are in treacle, wobble when they spin, like an unbalanced top. It is also why fitting a carbon prop shaft or lighter clutch makes no discernable difference to the overall weight of the car. Because it does not matter to the game.

I guess that this works for some people. The subconscious is easily pleased and comforted by seeing and feeling what it expects, and the conscious is easily fooled by what the subconscious has quietly set up. What I am driving at is I believe that GT5 in physics is a master stroke of mental subversion, an armchair that swallows you whole and fits to your shape. You should never speak of realism regarding any game, however anyone that thinks GT5 is anyway more complicated or realistic than Forza is clearly having a laugh. I own both consoles, have both games, most versions of both actually and I've never gotten on with the driving portion of GT. It feels stone dead to me.

Exactly. I haven't heard one proper defence yet of how GT5 IS actually simulating those things properly...

Nooboogering: Exactly Hotspitta. Forza 4 is next on the menu and it should be a leap ahead. i am expecting Forza 4 to do just that. The improvements are clearly visable. I would like Forza to gain more cred and sales by xmas and see the competition really sweat.

Funny that. Here we are saying how Forza 4 should be a step ahead (which looks promising) releasing less than a year after GT5, and yet GT5 is compared to Forza 3 fairly evenly, even though GT5 came out a year later, hmmmm.
 
This entire thread is very opinionated, is that a problem?

Did you just call me a communist? :scared:

Race teams do a LOT of adjusting based on feel.

The Cosmo was offered with either a 13B-REW or a 20B-REW (3 rotor)

No, no I meant the way GT5 is so strict in terms of the standard cars in terms of certain tuning, etc.
True, but the numbers play a big part as well.
 

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