FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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4,439
zr1chris
zr1chris
From my experience, if this was GT5, he'd have been spinning all of the place with no chance in hell to recover the car.

Maybe once you get sideways but if you keep it straight you can hold on. Just ask some of the GT Academy participants. There was some use of the grass while turning some fast laps.
 
4,366
Antarctica
Antarctica
@ luminis 2months it not enough time bro I just gold challenges that I could not even get silver in when I 1st start playing the game I still have and play my FM3 and learn many new things with both games.

I do sort of get the reasoning of dropping GT5 after two months, the stupid grinding, is just a waste of time, not to mention B-spec, I also drop GT5 after two months, I then retake the game recently, because I'm not willing to waste my time in such gimmicks.

And I sold FM3 after a month of buy(on Amazon for 5 bucks, and it took about two weeks to be sold), I couldn't care less about that game after level 32, I'm playing with a borrowed copy this time around(and using my old save), but meh, Its a lesson I learned for FM4, always play the game before buy(yeah autovista looks cool and all, but when "Hollywood style racing" comes into advertising, it says pretty much a lot of things about the game, apart from that, AC:AH comes out about the same week, therefore I'll be spending my time on that one).
 

PzR Slim

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The attitude is not required at all, unless that is you wish the staff to demonstrate how we 'deal with it'.


Scaff

Scaff, I don't mean it nastily. I just think people from both sides of the debate have a hard time admitting the faults of their preference. If we could all just deal with the fact that neither is perfect then we might all be sat here being positive talking about the good things both games do rather than trying to pick both apart with negatives. Apologies if I upset or offended anyone.
 

Spagetti69

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Scaff, I don't mean it nastily. I just think people from both sides of the debate have a hard time admitting the faults of their preference. If we could all just deal with the fact that neither is perfect then we might all be sat here being positive talking about the good things both games do rather than trying to pick both apart with negatives. Apologies if I upset or offended anyone.

Aint gonna happen mate, as much as I'd like it too.

It's a question of who's metaphorical "Knob" is bigger than the others.

Just grab a slice of pizza and enjoy.
 
2,414
You are making the same mistake trusting Forza over other games. If there is a thing you would trust is real life.
HUH?
And what's with the hundreds of times that drivers put one wheel off and, unlike in GT5, nothing happens? :odd:
The argument wasn't that it does not happeen, the argument was that it doesn't seem to happen as often or as easily as it does in GT. That's what I got from t.o.'s post, at least.

Pretty much.

zero I said it in the original post but again I'll say it. I've seen plenty of races where cars go one wheel off and keep on moving like nothing happened. One thing I DO have happen more in FM3 than I've seen in GT5 and I've seen in real life a bit is catching the rear wheel wrong on a chicane , I guess on power, it'll shoot your across the track like an arrow. The first time it happen to me I went into a wall bad. lol. But now I know when to get ready for it so if it does happen I'm instantly ready to correct it. I've got some vids somewhere where I've done this. We've been doing some loose Continental Tire/Rolex Watch races using the Camaros/BMW/Mustang and Challenger and that Camaro is kinda frisky.


PS: Here's my setup for now:
P1011255.jpg


better look:

DSC02079.jpg


Simple but functional and sturdy.
 
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Scaff

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Scaff, I don't mean it nastily. I just think people from both sides of the debate have a hard time admitting the faults of their preference. If we could all just deal with the fact that neither is perfect then we might all be sat here being positive talking about the good things both games do rather than trying to pick both apart with negatives. Apologies if I upset or offended anyone.

I full understand that, which is exactly why those involved should take care to avoid inflammatory terms and comments (no matter how they are intended).


Scaff
 
2,414
That center post doesn't get in the way when using the brake?? Are you a right foot or left foot brake user?

Not at all. There's two posts. One , removable, goes right up to the chair so as long as I don't slide off the seats and ruin the "family jewels" I'm alright. lol. the other just goes straight up and down so it doesn't get in the way at all. And I right foot brake. My issue is more the fact that my right foot is a little stiff from an injury years ago
 

Spagetti69

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Nice set op t.o.

My seat is low to the ground also. Have you altered the throw on the CSP pedals?

I find altering my pedals to an angle helps with a low seat set up.
 
4,439
zr1chris
zr1chris
Not at all. There's two posts. One , removable, goes right up to the chair so as long as I don't slide off the seats and ruin the "family jewels" I'm alright. lol. the other just goes straight up and down so it doesn't get in the way at all. And I right foot brake. My issue is more the fact that my right foot is a little stiff from an injury years ago
Cool, thanks for the insight. :cheers: Ive been thinking about getting a playseat with the center post for a while now so its good to know it wont get in the way before i spend almost $400.
 

PzR Slim

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I full understand that, which is exactly why those involved should take care to avoid inflammatory terms and comments (no matter how they are intended).


Scaff

Point taken and once again, apologies.
 
2,414
but when "Hollywood style racing" comes into advertising, it says pretty much a lot of things about the game, apart from that, AC:AH comes out about the same week, therefore I'll be spending my time on that one).

I don't recall them saying this. They say Hollywood effects. Which I think is more the IBL they are touting since they said they consulted with Hollywood effects people who suggested the IBL for the game. That had me concerned as well till I started getting more info

Nice set op t.o.

My seat is low to the ground also. Have you altered the throw on the CSP pedals?

I find altering my pedals to an angle helps with a low seat set up.
No I haven't actually. Might check into that. The stiff ankle really only comes into play when I try to move my foot left and right with the heel down. It's also MURDER when driving in stop and go traffic in real life. I think I need to rehab it or something.

Cool, thanks for the insight. :cheers: Ive been thinking about getting a playseat with the center post for a while now so its good to know it wont get in the way before i spend almost $400.

Well I can't say if the playseat post will get in the way but the way I have it setup it doesn't bother me at all.
 

Spagetti69

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t.o.
No I haven't actually. Might check into that. The stiff ankle really only comes into play when I try to move my foot left and right with the heel down. It's also MURDER when driving in stop and go traffic in real life. I think I need to rehab it or something.

My CSP are still at default set up.
I just angle my Wheel stand to give a better pitch whilst sitting low.

I haven't actually adjusted any throw. Too scared to take apart something that works fine lol.

Maybe try a packing piece under the whole setup to alter the angle just to see if there's any benifit.
 
2,414
My CSP are still at default set up.
I just angle my Wheel stand to give a better pitch whilst sitting low.

I haven't actually adjusted any throw. Too scared to take apart something that works fine lol.

Maybe try a packing piece under the whole setup to alter the angle just to see if there's any benifit.

Actually I don't really have much of a problem when racing, really just real life driving is the killer. When I'm in the heat of racing I'm just concentrating to hard to notice anything else. One thing I wish is to be around on Earth long enough to see some truly fast internet in my life. What we have now is cool and all but there's still latency and lag. FM3 online is very good though. GT5 is another story. It all has to do with how they implement the online protocols. I think the 360 "buffers" info thereby creating a smooth online effect although what you see on the screen may not actually be happening. Which in racing or any gaming theory may seem bad but in practical use is good. The PS3 I believe sends the data raw with no buffering. In theory this is great because if conditions are pristine you can play as if you're on the same console but the internet is NEVER pristine and in practical use not a good thing. I'm gonna have to investigate this further though. This is all theory from playing games on the 360 versus the PS3 with the same people on both consoles.
 
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I do sort of get the reasoning of dropping GT5 after two months, the stupid grinding, is just a waste of time, not to mention B-spec, I also drop GT5 after two months, I then retake the game recently, because I'm not willing to waste my time in such gimmicks.
Yup, that's basically it.

Just to clarify this, because I might have come across as if I don't like GT5's physics. I do! I seriously do! But: I can't agree with the notion that I get from some posts, that GT5 does everything right regarding its physics, or that FM3 is vastly inferior to GT5.
If I had to chose, I'd pick GT5's physics over FM3's, but I still liked FM3's and think that they're a good basis to work from. With a few tweaks here and there, I could imagine that FM4 might feel just as good or better than GT5. Unless, of course, you're using GT5 as your benchmark, which, again, from what I've read, I assume some people are doing.

There's also the thing about fulfilling expactations versus actual realism - I've often heard people claim some unrealistic expactations, mostly when understeer on RWD cars is concerned. I have a feeling that, while GT5's physics are the better of the two, a lot of the praise they're receiving is down to them fulfilling such expactions a tad better, but that's just that: A feeling.

If it was just about the physics, I'd still be playing GT5, no questions asked. Thing is, for me, it was lacking in so many other ways that I couldn't be bothered to keep it. Physics might be pretty high on my list of priorities, but it's not high enough up there to make up for a whole host of other things that are either lacking or completely missing from the game.
 
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crispychicken49
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Eh, I just learn to enjoy the little things. In Forza, most of my time is spent making mock racing championships in a private race lobby with AI on hard, or editing the Liveries. In GT5, i just put in countless laps, for really no reason, just doing this over and over again, just for fun. Like Tallahassee said, Gotta Enjoy The Little Things.
 

HBK

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Just to clarify this, because I might have come across as if I don't like GT5's physics. I do! I seriously do! But: I can't agree with the notion that I get from some posts, that GT5 does everything right regarding its physics, or that FM3 is vastly inferior to GT5.
If I had to chose, I'd pick GT5's physics over FM3's, but I still liked FM3's and think that they're a good basis to work from. With a few tweaks here and there, I could imagine that FM4 might feel just as good or better than GT5. Unless, of course, you're using GT5 as your benchmark, which, again, from what I've read, I assume some people are doing.

There's also the thing about fulfilling expactations versus actual realism - I've often heard people claim some unrealistic expactations, mostly when understeer on RWD cars is concerned. I have a feeling that, while GT5's physics are the better of the two, a lot of the praise they're receiving is down to them fulfilling such expactions a tad better, but that's just that: A feeling.

If it was just about the physics, I'd still be playing GT5, no questions asked. Thing is, for me, it was lacking in so many other ways that I couldn't be bothered to keep it. Physics might be pretty high on my list of priorities, but it's not high enough up there to make up for a whole host of other things that are either lacking or completely missing from the game.
This pretty much sums up my opinion on the subject 👍
 
Actually I don't really have much of a problem when racing, really just real life driving is the killer. When I'm in the heat of racing I'm just concentrating to hard to notice anything else. One thing I wish is to be around on Earth long enough to see some truly fast internet in my life. What we have now is cool and all but there's still latency and lag. FM3 online is very good though. GT5 is another story. It all has to do with how they implement the online protocols. I think the 360 "buffers" info thereby creating a smooth online effect although what you see on the screen may not actually be happening. Which in racing or any gaming theory may seem bad but in practical use is good. The PS3 I believe sends the data raw with no buffering. In theory this is great because if conditions are pristine you can play as if you're on the same console but the internet is NEVER pristine and in practical use not a good thing. I'm gonna have to investigate this further though. This is all theory from playing games on the 360 versus the PS3 with the same people on both consoles.

It's a great point, I have to say. What happens when you sidle up to a car in FM3, you get the car position data update a touch late so the previous frame is extrapolated further, but the actual car has deviated from that course, and is now actually occupying the space that you're in? Well, as soon as you all get your next updates, there's going to be a frustrating collision that you never knew was coming.

In GT5, the cars tend to teleport (well, warp, to use the old Quake terminology) about the place, meaning you have to guess the car's actual position as some sort of pseudo average of the "spirograph" the car is tracing out on the track. The visual effect of this warping is quite unnerving, of course.

When it comes down to it, though, the approach in both paradigms is the same: give each other room.


It can't be as bad as the race I had yesterday in iRacing, where the guy I was following kept lagging out and disappearing. Really quite disturbing, and hampers any attempt to get past. Then again, the wide berth people were giving me was probably indicative of my terrible connection being at fault this time. Or maybe it was my licence level. :D
So perhaps this might suggest that the pyschological aspects of Forza's method may actually be practically beneficial, so long as you remember to give everyone space!


By the way, the "Hollywood effects" would include the audio distortion "solution" they've licensed, too, apparently. It's a bit worrying that Hollywood had to suggest the image-based lighting, when it's becoming de-rigeur in games now, and has been practical for nearly 10 years already (on the PC; e.g. ATI R300 from '02, vs. the 360's R520 / R600 "hybrid" from '06). Here's a nice cheating way of doing it, that is faster than the "Hollywood" method of using full-size textured domes, as demo'd on the R300 in "[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHBgkeXH9lU]Rendering with Natural Light[/URL]".
 
4,366
Antarctica
Antarctica
Anyway, I want to hear the opinion of you guys about the career structure in both games, maybe is an aspect that should be address and could provide a valid, yet reasonable argument.

And I also should point out that FM4 must not be included into this discussion until it comes out, unless someone already has a copy of it and have experienced/play it all.
 
2,414
Anyway, I want to hear the opinion of you guys about the career structure in both games, maybe is an aspect that should be address and could provide a valid, yet reasonable argument.
Ok this sounds great, sure let's get it going.....
And I also should point out that FM4 must not be included into this discussion until it comes out, unless someone already has a copy of it and have experienced/play it all.
really? *packs briefcase, walks out door*
 

Spagetti69

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Didn't like the GT5 career at all.

In fairness I haven't completed it.
ISR mentioned something like 11 24hr races to level up between 39 and 40. Maybe more.
Although event wise it is really short.

Don't mind Forzas TBH although I was surprised to find not one historic cup race.

GT5 arcade mode beats Forzas because Forzas options were terrible.
Medium AI.
2 or 3 laps and that was it.

Offline options have room for improvement on both sides.
 

HBK

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FM3 career : Repetitive, but silky smooth. Very pleasant overall, if a bit dull.
GT5 career : Varied, but rough, and not just around the edges. Very unpleasant overall, despite some cool moments.
 
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Anyway, I want to hear the opinion of you guys about the career structure in both games, maybe is an aspect that should be address and could provide a valid, yet reasonable argument..

GT5: Good career, but the dealership ruined it.
Forza 3: Good career, but it is indeed a grind if you want to finish every event.

And I also should point out that FM4 must not be included into this discussion until it comes out, unless someone already has a copy of it and have experienced/play it all.

FM4 can be in the discussion on this thread, because there are numerous facts out about the game, including some career facts.