FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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9,295
Germany
Duisburg
FM3: Lots events and two different ways to get through them, unintrusive leveling system, "hire a driver" worked decently for events you did not want to do yourself, endurance races were decent, if a bit short. Initimitading amount of events to fnish, though.

GT5? Worst career mode I've played in a long, long, LONG time. GT4's was miles better than that. The events might have been varried, however, hunting for UCD before the Online Colletor's Dealer or whatever was available was a royal pain in the rear. The level system was annoying and far too intusive, both for the events and the cars. B-Spec was an utter chore. And the endurance events were completely moronic. The FIA would rip you a knew one if you decided to do a 24h even all by yourself. Also, PD succeeded in making me hate Tsukuba like no other track in history. And heaps of grinding the same events. Yuk.

No matter how bad FM4's career mode is going to be, it'll be hard to not beat GT5 in that regard. Aside from the standard/premium issue, that's probalby my biggest complaint with GT5.
 
FM3: Lots events and two different ways to get through them, unintrusive leveling system, "hire a driver" worked decently for events you did not want to do yourself, endurance races were decent, if a bit short. Initimitading amount of events to fnish, though.

GT5? Worst career mode I've played in a long, long, LONG time. GT4's was miles better than that. The events might have been varried, however, hunting for UCD before the Online Colletor's Dealer or whatever was available was a royal pain in the rear. The level system was annoying and far too intusive, both for the events and the cars. B-Spec was an utter chore. And the endurance events were completely moronic. The FIA would rip you a knew one if you decided to do a 24h even all by yourself. Also, PD succeeded in making me hate Tsukuba like no other track in history. And heaps of grinding the same events. Yuk.

No matter how bad FM4's career mode is going to be, it'll be hard to not beat GT5 in that regard. Aside from the standard/premium issue, that's probalby my biggest complaint with GT5.

You read my mind.👍
 
1,732
cuco33
GT5's career was broken and I think mostly due to the car dealership. Here's one gripe I had, probably stemming from not being a fan of trucks and all.

So before the OCD's existence I needed a pickup truck for both A/Bspec pickup truck races. No pickup truck can be purchased in the dealership unless you were lucky enough to have it pop up in rotation. I came here in gtp to search how to get a truck, or if I had to just grind until it popped up. Completing A class license IIRC gives you a Dodge Ram Hemi quadcab, probably the heaviest and biggest truck in the whole game. Mind you, not a single license event had a pickup truck yet the 2nd to last license gave me it as a gift for completing... So I go and use the truck, requiring a bit of modifications to be competitive, and what do I get in return in both pick up truck races? 2 variants of the Daihatsu Midget... I means seriously?! Pickup trucks are an American thing... could have gifted me an SSR, an F150 or a bunch of different and massively better pickup trucks than TWO Midgets.... unbelievable...
Then the OCD pops up and 'resolves' this issue of not having a pickup truck for the races (if they don't want to do the licenses) but after rotation I believe there's no longer a pick up truck there so back to square one with the grind cycle...


And it was the same for the FGTs too...
sadly I still haven't done the FGT races in GT5 since they drive real hard and I need a good wheel tune.

Just one of many issues I have with the career. The grinding killed it for me but I still play. I don't mind the leveling up but the whole expectation to replay the same events over and over and over and over and over again just to level up to unlock a race series... as a not so much fan of license events... that was a highlight in GT games. Unlock more race events but getting a license for it. And they killed it by half ass implementation of the xp system. I don't know any other game that's as badly setup as GT5 is and that's a shame cuz the game could be really great but the structure is just horse****.
 

con360

Founder of the Glow Paint
Premium
664
United Kingdom
UK
What i think:
GT5:
Have been with the series since GT1 so it has history and memories
Definitely see advancement on everything
Lack of events has been fixed thanks to Seasonals
Endurance events ARE endurance events
B-Spec where you actually have to do something (most of the time ;) )
Photomode is way more diverse and tons better than that of Forza 3
Free Run mode in online lobbys
Feels like a half finished game but getting better with each update
Premium cars beautifully rendered and not two different models like in Forza
Minor detail but the quality of the drivers in the opposing premium cars is stunning, the animations are dead on
time changing is done beautifully
Go-Karting is only used in 3 races and some online lobbys
Nascar is rarely used
Big smoke effects (especially in a 1000hp Audi RS6 on Top Gear Test Track constantly sliding ;) )
Blocky effects (this seems like it is being slowly fixed, but this isn't the only game to do it, XBOX360 is mainly shadows on games and PS3 seems to be a bit of shadows and some see through textures)
Not a great feeling of speed, I know you can't replicate the fear of racing a real car but still, camera shake and blur nearly always helps cure this
3D Pit Crew XD (Sorry but the Forza one is so awful that is laughable)
Tracks and used cars seem too clean
Some available maintenance like oil change, car wash, engine rebuild and chassis rebuild
More track diversity
Rally Events
Not enough of certain Race Car Groups (e.g. Nurburgring 24hrs Cars: FALKEN R34 GT-R Race Car and thats it)
Race car sounds are not loud/shouty enough
Braking is nearly perfect
Less Forgiving, which is good :)
Too many of a certain type of car (e.g. MX-5, RX-7 (Kaz has already said about this and said he will try to rebalance this is GT6 but he agrees it is ridiculous)
1080p
3D
Not enough new cars
Fantasy cars >.<
Damage engine isn't that great
Environment textures are a lot better (especially greenery)
Endurance races don't give enough money/xp compared to seasonals considering that 5 laps round tsukaba in a tuned MX-5 is nearly the same as 4 hours round tsukaba in a tuned MX-5
a few track 'breakout' places
you end up grinding lvl 30+
Moving crowd
too long to model one premium (6 months, should do the cheaty way that Forza does and laser scan then touch up afterwards)
Weather system isn't great (if it snowed in November/December and rained/thundered in February/March then i would be over the moon but just rain on very few traccks is a bit silly, same with time lapse on some tracks :/ )
Challenging Licences

Forza 3:
Track leaderboards
Cars in classes
Auction system
Most cars have a deceent amount of cosmetic changes
Car Vinyl customization
Way more forgiving
no copyright problems with user made content
damage is better but still not comparable of GRiD and DiRT (I know they have less cars so they have more time to do that sort of stuff but that is no excuse)
No weather/time changes
No night tracks
No Licence system (thank god it isn't like this in real life)
2 different models in gameplay and view/photomode (shows xbox360 cant use them models with the physics engine and user input and AI all at the same time)
i like the Lap/Place HUD on each dashboard
interiors are not that great, hopefully will be fixed in Forza 4
camera shake and blur give sense of speed
tire deformation physics is only for show but for race cars i feel there is too much tire deformation (well it depends on how much air is in the tires ;) )
Non-existent smoke/dust!
Better selection of cars
All cars modelled to about the same level of detail
non-adjustable ABS/TCS

everything i don't know about I haven't commented on
I don't normally play Forza 3's online so i can't comment on that
 
2
jgt_89
forza is the more well rounded game. If you have an xbox pick it up. its great online and you can customize your cars to no end and then sell it for more than you paid for it for ingame credits of course. however i prefer gt5.
 
1,732
cuco33
I know DLC isn't something with GT5 yet but I enjoyed having the Nurburgring GP track in FM3. I just didn't like how T10 handled the DLC track. The DLC cars were integrated into the campaign but I think T10 could have added a new row in the events list solely on NurbGP track. C, B, A classes, 150hp 300 hp classes, etc. Would have been easy, at least I think but the DLC track became private online lobby thing or time trial only. I'm hoping if a track becomes DLC in FM4 that they follow my idea and don't botch it up.
 

Terronium-12

For My Mom, Always
Moderator
27,668
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KR_Viper
I Renown I
That is the stupidest, most awesome thing I've seen in a good while. :lol:

---

Helium-filled shock absorbers, coming 2032.
 
9,295
Germany
Duisburg
Well, the difference, from what I've gathered, is enough to make people use different tunes for online and offline...
 
Well, the difference, from what I've gathered, is enough to make people use different tunes for online and offline...

Wow thats bad, thats new too me. Also Gt5 wont let you save Tuning-setups wich makes this an even greater problem.👎
FM3 vs Gt5 on le Mans wich a Super Gt GTR. Funny how the colours in Gt5 look so saturated.
 
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9,295
Germany
Duisburg
Mind you, I've never raced online while I still had GT5, so that's no first hand information, but if the physics are different, I do think that someone who means business would basically have too have two different tunes available. You'd most likely would have to just buy the same car twice to keep your tunes saved, I think.

Unless GT5 was patched and received the ability to save setups and I don't know that, yet.
 
Mind you, I've never raced online while I still had GT5, so that's no first hand information, but if the physics are different, I do think that someone who means business would basically have too have two different tunes available. You'd most likely would have to just buy the same car twice to keep your tunes saved, I think.

Unless GT5 was patched and received the ability to save setups and I don't know that, yet.

No thats actually what most guys do. It's not like they have a choice.

Ps: Seems our big friend has returned too bash Forza 4 once again. This must have really had a bad childhood. lolz.

 
9,295
Germany
Duisburg
I didn't even make it past the first 5 minutes of the first video :lol: I guess he doesn't even realise how much of a fool he's making out of himself.

Got to admit, though, I feel ashamed for sharing a hobby with him, even if I'm mostly on the system he hates the most (thankfully!).
 
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I didn't even make it past the first 5 minutes of the first video :lol: I guess he doesn't even realise how much of a fool he's making out of himself.

Got to admit, though, I feel ashamed for sharing a hobby with him, even if I'm mostly on the system he hates the most (thankfully!).

He doenst have a clue..:lol:
 
2,953
England
England
WilliamsJIM_Adam
Because of the poster of a naked dude in the background and him talking about sucking dicks? :lol:

Oh my god! I didn't realise that. 5:36 is definitely my favourite bit now!!!

No I'm referring to what he was saying, obviously. ;)
 

Spagetti69

Is not my real name.
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Because of the poster of a naked dude in the background and him talking about sucking dicks? :lol:

He also said he is a photographer.

Great video, not as good as his first because it was a bit of a slow burner.
By the time he gets into his stride it ended on a good bit. Bah.
 
4,366
Antarctica
Antarctica
And just when I thought the thread really got into something, the off-topic happens(I also don't see the point of posting the guy who bashes FM4, he is clearly wrongs so?).

Moving on, there are several element that should be address from career mode in GT5 and FM3, for starters FM3 career is better than GT5, but that doesn't mean that the career mode is good in either game, taking in reference what previous games on each series have done before(i.e. FM2/GT4).

Lets start with FM3 career flaws, the mention of the levelling system is required here, the differences and difficulty between levels is really unbalanced, the player doesn't really acquire enough experience to play with advanced cars to logically follow the progression. Then there is the organization of the progression which is divided into two modes(Seasonal/list), I found both models really well planted, but each mode has their own problems, for example, the seasonal events structure makes player progression really slow, and unable the player to access certain events within what can be consider as "logical progression", and we found the list event structure, which is personally my favourite, and the most flowed one, the problem is that the events are well planed according to the assets, but the lack of guided progression makes really broken because players have access to all kinds of races and the lack of limitations makes some events playable with ridiculous cars, the thing that made me get rid of the game, apart from the endurance racing.

Then we have GT5's career mode which is the most broken, none of its faults can be justified, the fact that part of the progression relays on you not playing the game(A.K.A. B-spec) makes the game progression a real pain in the you know what, apart from that, there is the mixture between licences and levelling up systems, something that should not exist, one system should be used for these kind of games, not both. Apart from that, KY created that stupid model with RPG elements just to make the game even more flawed, the A-spec progression is to damn slow considering the amount of assets and the requirements for each race, some strings were required, but the game should not be that difficult with lower levels, and they game should not become grinding.

There are other elements that should be consider, the organization of the events is really confusing compared to FM3, seasonal events are a great introduction, but the whole layout and structure of the events in GT5 is really broken, needless to say, some characteristics of the career mode could be better organized(like GT4 did), what makes GT5 a bad game is the organisation of its assets, I wont care too much about the whole standard/premium issue since all cars have premium physics, what really bothers me is the organization of the events and the career itself which is really broken.

Each game's career mode could have been better if they had followed the structure of previous games, in FM for example, FM2 presented a good mixture between difficulty and level progression, organizing the races and assets accordingly to what a real progression can be consider, in GT4 there was the level system based on the license, and that was more that enough to create a balanced progression between skill/player level, FM series didn't use the license model structure, therefore they concentrated their effort in creating systems in which the payer with enough skill receive the corresponding challenge, which worked beautify in FM1 and FM2. I felt like each game tried to take some aspects of its opposition(FM3=open career structure like GT4//GT5=linear progression systems depending on the level like FM2), and this made each career mode extremely flawed.

Having said that, I want to known how you guys take the arcade mode for each game, apart from that, FM4 should not be consider here, as I said before there isn't too many facts known about the game, just as an example, take the whole St/Pr issue from GT5, 1 year from release(and supposed to be 5 months before released)everyone thought that the whole 1000 cars were premium according to videos and screenshots, and we all know how that turned out to be(similar to the whole Porsche issue). Apart from that, no one here has played the game to actually provide a definition of how the career mode will work and how the level system will work, elements that should be determinate in this conversations(apart from physics and so on).
 

II-zOoLoGy-II

(Banned)
2,713
United States
F YOU
Hotspitta
No thats actually what most guys do. It's not like they have a choice.

Ps: Seems our big friend has returned too bash Forza 4 once again. This must have really had a bad childhood. lolz.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgkfVy982mY">YouTube Link</a>

LOL. What a loser. I quit watching when I noticed the naked guy poster and he failed to intelligently read and respond to comments.
 
9,295
Germany
Duisburg
Lets start with FM3 career flaws, the mention of the levelling system is required here, the differences and difficulty between levels is really unbalanced, the player doesn't really acquire enough experience to play with advanced cars to logically follow the progression.
Not saying you are wrong or anything, but I wonder how two people can come to such diverse conclusions about the same thing. I never even knew there was a single level requirement in FM3, because I was busy finishing events and gathering money. That kept me up long enough to progress through the leveling syste, without it interfering with me even once. If you would've asked me back then, I would've told you that its sole purpose is to hand out free cars :lol:

Having said that, I want to known how you guys take the arcade mode for each game,
Arcade mode? I only use cars from the career mode even in arcade, so i have access to my upgrades and tunes. Moot point for me.

apart from that, FM4 should not be consider here, as I said before there isn't too many facts known about the game, just as an example, take the whole St/Pr issue from GT5, 1 year from release(and supposed to be 5 months before released)everyone thought that the whole 1000 cars were premium according to videos and screenshots, and we all know how that turned out to be(similar to the whole Porsche issue).
You're comparing apples with oranges here. There's nothing wrong with considering known facts. PD messing around that much doesn't necessarily translate to Forza, you know.
 
593
Germany
Lohmar, Germany
jabofu
DAG JaboFu
Having said that, I want to known how you guys take the arcade mode for each game, apart from that, FM4 should not be consider here, as I said before there isn't too many facts known about the game, just as an example, take the whole St/Pr issue from GT5, 1 year from release(and supposed to be 5 months before released)everyone thought that the whole 1000 cars were premium according to videos and screenshots, and we all know how that turned out to be(similar to the whole Porsche issue). Apart from that, no one here has played the game to actually provide a definition of how the career mode will work and how the level system will work, elements that should be determinate in this conversations(apart from physics and so on).

I would say the arcade mode is nearly the same in both games. You can take a car and do a quick race against the AI in it. The big difference is that you have a very very limited choice of cars in the GT5 Arcade garage, when you can use every car available in Forza 3. And besides quick races, you can also do some time trials or test driving alone. I think the options in GT5 are very similar, but I havent played it for a while. On the other hand, the arcade modes are not really important and only there for some fun or testing of cars you havent bought yet.

Dismissing FM 4 generally from this discussion is also not correct, because it says FM vs GT discussion and that includes all the titles of each brand. And why isnt it allowed to use the standard vs premium argument? It is one of the no goes in general gaming that the quality of content in a game should not differ in such a big scale. Many see them as an addition, but tell me that a GT with 200 cars is worth the name GT!

The careers in both games are boring, no question, but where GT5 fails with its broken level system, fm 3 delivered a very dynamic and smooth leveling. In GT5 you can win all races and all seasonal events (which where great), but you still arent near the lvl 40 mark. Many people will never touch the endurance races and are stuck with their levels or are doomed with endless grinding. Then you have recycled events and event names (sunday cup etc.) and the quantity was lame for a GT game.

Back to FM 3s career mode, yes it was boring too, but you didnt had to do every single event to get to the top lvl (lvl 50). So if you are not in LMP or generally race cars, you wasnt forced to do those events. Others dont like historic cars or jdm stuff or races with 100 hp cars. You could gain your experience and money you needed in the way you want and the way you enjoy.

You can actually create your own championships with the a multiplayer lobby filled with cpu cars. There are endless options for a proper race event and you can setup several tracks in a row for a real championship. After the races you gain your xp and money like you would get in the offline career. You cant to that in GT5 at all and you have to do events you dont want to do. Endless and stupid grinding for getting the 1 milllion $ car for a 5 races championship. It is pain and pointless.

And the offline vs. online physics in GT5 kills it for serious racing. I think the problem with the faulty suspension setups got patched, right? Damn, how can something like this happen?
 

ItsHim

Premium
1,312
Germany
Bavaria/Germany
Hotspitta
So much for realistic physics in gt5. offline and online seem too be very different. :odd:

There is a noticeable difference, as has already been stated, between arcade mode and online on the one side and a spec on the other side. However that doesn't mean a spec is in any way unbearable.

How you come to your conclusion is, frankly, beyond me as is how basically a few (?) people turned this thread in what I feel is an absolute shambles.

I'm all for "agreeing to disagree" and such but as it turned out, this thread doesn't meet my standards of discussion in the least.

We had a decent share of disappointed posters, but this ongoing bashing has gone far beyond any reasonable point.

GT never was never your common western 'game' as there never was much 'game' in the first place. A car - a track. That's all there is and if you ask me: that's all there has to be if the driving is that good as it is. It is ignorance at its finest if one fails to comprehend where the focus of this GT iteration lies.

I also wished PD would have introduced some game play elements from other franchises, and as far as racing 'game' goes Mario Cart or my beloved Midnight Club 3 or even Shift are far better 'games'. But for the old-school undiluted driving experience on a console, GT5 is the king of the hill. And that's what matters to me because I can't think of any other 'game' which would motivate me enough to run 4 hour races over and over again in different cars.

I personally feel the GTP community is one of the finest there is, not let alone a thread like this one is put up with much good spirit and patience. My own feelings however are quite strong, and I'd just wish people would go on with the lives after they stopped playing GT5 - or in fact stopped talking through their hat because they never have so much as given the title a try.

I can remember T10 offered a special livery car for all those who voted in favour of FM3 rather than GT5 back in the days I was a member of fm.net. There was at least an incentive for spamming third party websites. I really don't get what people get from this. Clearly not a discussion.
 

Spagetti69

Is not my real name.
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spagetti69
It's to keep all the crap in one place to free up others threads from spam.

At least I think that was the mods intentions.
 
9,295
Germany
Duisburg
GT never was never your common western 'game' as there never was much 'game' in the first place. A car - a track. That's all there is and if you ask me: that's all there has to be if the driving is that good as it is. It is ignorance at its finest if one fails to comprehend where the focus of this GT iteration lies.
So basically, if I was to mess something up because I deliberately made the decision to do so, it's fine? :dunce: Dunno, but that reasoning (it's fine because it's GT) is below my standards.

Also, I'd say that there was much more of a 'game' in GT4 than there is in GT5. Manufacturerer races and the driving mission alone would cover that.