FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Benny44]

I feel the need to compare these two games. Before, I criticized FM3 because I was expecting a GT-like experience. Well, I got a deal on a 360 a short while ago and decided to put FM3 through its paces. To my surprise, I had fun. Now, I will admit that in the past I was bashing Forza without really having played it for any length of time. It reminds me of a really cool version of GT2 or 3. And that's not meant in a way to bash the game. It brought me back to my teens playing GT 1 and 2. I'm just having so much fun with it.

That being said, I don't believe that Forza's physics are anywhere near GT5. For GT5, I had the logitech wheel with a real car seat all welded together, so I got the full sim experience. With Forza, I was content with the controller because I find it to be a much easier game. A review I read by Car and Driver magazine said it best, I think: 'Forza 3 is a game, while GT5 is a simulator'. They are both tremendous accomplishments. If you want a game you can casually sit back and play, get Forza. If you want a more hardcore sim-type experience, get GT5. Personally, I feel GT5 is better. But whatever game you like, I think you can appreciate what makes the other one great.

 

[Tesla]

A video from me.

Can't tell if parody or just plain ignorant

 

[HBK]

I can't wait to see AutoVIsta in different locations.

I doubt Autovista will feature multiple locations. I think we'll only have Dan's dungeon in there.

 

[Hotspitta]

Too me FM4 now is graphicly better looking than gt5. It finally has that wow Factor just look at the SLS in AutoVista.

Also the cockpit view on TGTT is stunning and ten times better tha in FM3. The light shines and relfects perfectly on all the surfaces. (alloy, leather and plastic.)👍 Look at the Alpinestar gloves they look photorealistic.

 

[GumShoe]

I feel the need to compare these two games. Before, I criticized FM3 because I was expecting a GT-like experience. Well, I got a deal on a 360 a short while ago and decided to put FM3 through its paces. To my surprise, I had fun. Now, I will admit that in the past I was bashing Forza without really having played it for any length of time. It reminds me of a really cool version of GT2 or 3. And that's not meant in a way to bash the game. It brought me back to my teens playing GT 1 and 2. I'm just having so much fun with it.

That being said, I don't believe that Forza's physics are anywhere near GT5. For GT5, I had the logitech wheel with a real car seat all welded together, so I got the full sim experience. With Forza, I was content with the controller because I find it to be a much easier game. A review I read by Car and Driver magazine said it best, I think: 'Forza 3 is a game, while GT5 is a simulator'. They are both tremendous accomplishments. If you want a game you can casually sit back and play, get Forza. If you want a more hardcore sim-type experience, get GT5. Personally, I feel GT5 is better. But whatever game you like, I think you can appreciate what makes the other one great.

I think there's a change in perception coming as to what makes 'simulation' tyre physics. Forza 3's oft stated 'too forgiving' tyres may actually turn out to be the more realistic model, just look at the opinions of the new iRacing tyre model (the sim considered by many as the be-all sim):

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262465

And the more things progress, the more I see GT5 will eventually be acknowledged as not quite as realistic as people think

 

[phillgt2002]

Please don't tell me you actually did make that video.

p.s it has already been posted and laughed at earlier lol

I would never be such a troll.

 

[Luminis]

For GT5, I had the logitech wheel with a real car seat all welded together, so I got the full sim experience. With Forza, I was content with the controller because I find it to be a much easier game.

I kinda think it's allmost impossible to compare both games if you're using different input methods. If GT5 with a wheel would feel the same as FM3 with a pad, that'd be quite shameful.

But, if you're having fun, that's all that matters, in my opinion. As far as I know, that's what games are about 👍

And the more things progress, the more I see GT5 will eventually be acknowledged as not quite as realistic as people think

But... but... but being harder to control means it must be more realistic, right?

 

[HBK]

You mean real cars have grip ? I call that BS.

 

[Luminis]

You mean real cars have grip ? I call that BS.

Also, real cars over steer all the time. All. The. Time. Exactly like they do on Top Gear, when Clarkson drives them.

Understeer is an urban myth.

 

[Benny44]

@luminis, I think I left out some details of my input method. See, when I first had GT5, I tried the controller but it seemed almost unplayable without a bunch of assists on. In Forza, with all of the assists off, I'm having a fairly easy time winning with just the controller. Guess I should have said that in the first place.

@gumshoe, I just feel that driving FEELS too forgiving. In forza on nurburgring, I've hit the grass almost going completely sideways at about 100mph and managed to come out of it. Again, with the assists off. I'm pretty sure I'm not near a good enough driver to do that. In GT5, there is no way I could have pulled that off.

 

[Zer0]

I think there's a change in perception coming as to what makes 'simulation' tyre physics. Forza 3's oft stated 'too forgiving' tyres may actually turn out to be the more realistic model, just look at the opinions of the new iRacing tyre model (the sim considered by many as the be-all sim):

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262465

And the more things progress, the more I see GT5 will eventually be acknowledged as not quite as realistic as people think

I don't know if you understand what he said but this:

Several of the ones with new tire model (LMP2, Ford GT, Skip Barber) seem to have much more understeer in fast corners than before

iRacing is even more close to NetKAR pro now in my opinion, especially in the way the front wheels can suddenly get grip while trying to correct for an imminent spin which will abruptly spin you the other way around! Very nasty yet seemingly realistic (you see this happening in various forms of real racing all the time).

...is exactly how GT5 handles vs the more grip and stable cars in FM3. The infamous snap oversteer or fishtailing.



Go to 1:01

 

[zr1chris]

Too me FM4 now is graphicly better looking than gt5. It finally has that wow Factor just look at the SLS in AutoVista.

Also the cockpit view on TGTT is stunning and ten times better tha in FM3. The light shines and relfects perfectly on all the surfaces. (alloy, leather and plastic.)👍 Look at the Alpinestar gloves they look photorealistic.

I found the dark areas in the interior much too dark. You cant even see the gauges in the first video.

 

[HBK]

Also, real cars over steer all the time. All. The. Time. Exactly like they do on Top Gear, when Clarkson drives them.

Understeer is an urban myth.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Too me FM4 now is graphicly better looking than gt5. It finally has that wow Factor just look at the SLS in AutoVista.

Also the cockpit view on TGTT is stunning and ten times better tha in FM3. The light shines and relfects perfectly on all the surfaces. (alloy, leather and plastic.)👍 Look at the Alpinestar gloves they look photorealistic.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVhbVNg8bFU">YouTube Link</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzwhDiGJuTs">YouTube Link</a>

Awesome vids thanks for sharing.




Well looks like there are rumors on DLC for GT5 again. LOL.

 

[Northstar]

Well looks like there are rumors on DLC for GT5 again. LOL.

Hopefully it's the rest of the game.

Also, dude in the video, make your bed!!!!

 

[G.T.Ace]

I found the dark areas in the interior much too dark. You cant even see the gauges in the first video.

Because it's off-screen footage, the whole contrast is broken.

 

[Da-Bomber]

Anyone else glad they removed the lobster hands in the cockpit for forza. This is probably a good sign more has been changed since the e3 build.

 

[HBK]

Err, lobster claws are still here on all videos I've seen.

 

[Hotspitta]

Err, lobster claws are still here on all videos I've seen.

NO LOBSTER CLAWS HERE.

 

[fazamu0079]

I have both but tired of explaining. I think we must remember one thing while comparing those games - what is the reason to make each game, first initiative, main idea behind those game, their "soul" (the thing (dream) that keep this game progressing). Then it would be easer to understand why the each game is now what they are. If we say 'it's both "sims"' - I think it's only one part of the game that we can somewhat compare. I mean they are different, have different intentions, different main ideas, different souls. But at some point they are commune with each other ("sim" part). GT is Kaz's dream and his vision of a game. I don't want to discus what is FM about, but can say maybe some die-hard GT fan is tired for GT being the same and wanted add new features, then it's proceed to more ambition idea (King of racers). But if it's like this FM only exist because of GT. It's all my opinion of cource but I like GT soul - it's ONE idea but with each part Kaz is closing gap between his "dream game" and real one. And I like that. I like that this is not changing. I like how with each part he realizing his vision. Each part has it's own call. Of course GT is not perfect and such one idea makes very much problems, but anyway I like his vision. While Forza for me is just game. Kill me after that but for me FM is number of features compiled in one product. Like conveyor game, pure digital, with not so much new ideas as just ideas from other games (GT too). To me it's like very good (on paper) car but without it's pronounced soul, pure digital, trying to be as much as possible for all, acceptable, while GT is something exclusive, made by hand, with clear vision in mind (like you or not!) Again I can talk hours and hours about that but my knowledge of English really, really blocks me. And it's all my opinion.

P.S: Of course they are different, we can compare them but it's not changing anything - like just for fun To me only choice is buying both of them. But one I like "because" (of features) other I love "regardless" (of it's imperfections)

Good one! 👍

Yeah,to me Gt is far more than a game.If you play Gt since the ps1 generation,I think you may feel this too.
I think we can see forza's own thing in the coming forza 4.

 

[HBK]

NO LOBSTER CLAWS HERE.

Err, actually, the hands have about the exact same position than in Forza3. They're just wearing Alpine Star gloves this time around.

Edit : Some random pic for reference :

Sorry mate, I want this fixed as much as you do.

 

[Luminis]

@luminis, I think I left out some details of my input method. See, when I first had GT5, I tried the controller but it seemed almost unplayable without a bunch of assists on. In Forza, with all of the assists off, I'm having a fairly easy time winning with just the controller. Guess I should have said that in the first place.

Yeah, that clears that up
Thing is, I don't think how easy the game feels with a controller means it's more or less realistic, it's just better (or different, if you will) when it comes to translating the controller inputs to car-like inputs, if that makes sense

Yeah,to me Gt is far more than a game.If you play Gt since the ps1 generation,I think you may feel this too.

While I've been playing GT from the PS1 days on, I still don't quite understand how one gets to develop such loyality towards a game franchise (or any other brand, for that matter). But, to each their own

Sorry mate, I want this fixed as much as you do.

Yup, the hands still seem a bit, dunno, numb...

 

[GumShoe]

While I've been playing GT from the PS1 days on, I still don't quite understand how one gets to develop such loyality towards a game franchise (or any other brand, for that matter). But, to each their own

I don't get that either: so because I've been playing COD since the first one, MW2/black ops should be something special to me? Hmmm... Or Dr3ver, because I played the previous ones. Shouldn't the 'loyal fans' be more disappointed than anyone given how good the previous versions are?

Yup, the hands still seem a bit, dunno, numb...

To me they hold the wheel at the wrong angle, more like they're holding handlebars.

See i.e. Shift 2, more vertical grip on the wheel:

 

[Luminis]

Shouldn't the 'loyal fans' be more disappointed than anyone given how good the previous versions are?

I know I was when GT5 came out, because it couldn't offer me what I expected after the awesome games that were GT3 and 4... But then again, I'm no loyal fan. I was just a fan, might be the difference

To me they hold the wheel at the wrong angle, more like they're holding handlebars.

See i.e. Shift 2, more vertical grip on the wheel:

Yeah, wish they would've gotten that right. I kinda doubt that'll change before the final release, though, but you never know... They added the shift animations with a patch last time around, so it's definitely possible to do a thing or two about it - I'm not holding my breath for it, though.

 

[Evian]

Fixed. And even the phototravel differences are not as much as you see in Autovista vs gameplay graphics.

Autovista cars is a tasting the next gen cars models, it's so true that the differences will be so big with ingame models, but i so understable, anyone has sold this idea, it's gameplay totally differentiated.

And the diferences Phototravel/Ingame in Gt5 are so many appreciables.

 

[HBK]

While I've been playing GT from the PS1 days on, I still don't quite understand how one gets to develop such loyality towards a game franchise (or any other brand, for that matter). But, to each their own

Yeah, beats me as well. I can be very loyal to a brand, but only as long as the brand continue to deliver. GT5 was a huge disappointment (well, GT5p was the actual disappointment, GT5 only confirmed my fears), and as much as I played every other GT (and thouroughly enjoyed them), I'm not going to "let it slide", especially since there were already numerous shortcomings in previous GTs that are STILL not addressed.

That's not to say there are no good things in GT5, but the bad things are definitely there. And honestly, I don't see the point in dismissing them, especially if you're a fan. But hey, like you said, to each their own.

 

[Zer0]

Thing is, I don't think how easy the game feels with a controller means it's more or less realistic, it's just better (or different, if you will) when it comes to translating the controller inputs to car-like inputs, if that makes sense

Yes about the car inputs if you understand that any pad input is not a realistic movement vs turning a wheel/pressing a pedal but the car physics are also affected by that inputs and that translates into the game as a more or less real car behaviour. That is linked to a grade of difficult.

If some aspects of the driving are missing or assisted to favour a more simplistic handling is obvious that the game is going to be less realistic and more easy to predict/handle. That aspect works the same aside of using pad or wheel.

 

[Luminis]

Yes about the car inputs if you understand that any pad input is not a realistic movement vs turning a wheel/pressing a pedal but the car physics are also affected by that inputs and that translates into the game as a more or less real car behaviour. That is linked to a grade of difficult.

If some aspects of the driving are missing or assisted to favour a more simplistic handling is obvious that the game is going to be less realistic and more easy to predict/handle. That aspect works the same aside of using pad or wheel.

My point is, if the method of input is completely unrealstic and assisted differently from a wheel, how does that translate to playing with a wheel?

For example, you can go from full lock to full lock in 0.1 seconds with a controller. You can't do that with a wheel. Now, if one game offers an assist to limit the amount of lock or how fast you can go from full lock to full lock to make the game more playable with a controller (read: easier), how does that change a thing when playing with the wheel, if the assist isn't working the same for the wheel?

If one game is easier with the pad than the other, it just means that the pad is assisted differently. Does that automatically mean that the assists that do that affect the wheel just as much? No.

That's not to say there are no good things in GT5, but the bad things are definitely there. And honestly, I don't see the point in dismissing them, especially if you're a fan.

Yup, agreed. As far as I am concerned, GT5 has lost the edge it had over its competition during the PS1 and PS2 days, and while I hate seeing one of my favourite franchises taking a nose dive, there's nothing I can do about that. I definitely am not going to play a game I regard as sub-par just because its predecessors were outstanding at the time...

 

[Zer0]

Autovista cars is a tasting the next gen cars models, it's so true that the differences will be so big with ingame models, but i so understable, anyone has sold this idea, it's gameplay totally differentiated.

And the diferences Phototravel/Ingame in Gt5 are so many appreciables.

I know, I have discussed that car in the past:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=142492&page=43#post4590337

The point remains. The look of the cars is similar and the differences are appreciable only when you compare the photomode and phototravel details. Instead you don't need to compare the same car in Autovista vs FM4 gameplay to know that they are completely different graphic engines and car models.

*Luminis, now I see what you says and I agree.

 

[Luminis]

I think the whole segregation between in-race looks and others is a bit dumb in the first place, and that goes for both FM and GT. I can't wait for some direct-feed in-game videos of a full career race. Would make for an interesting comparision between GT5 and FM4 if we didn't just look at AutoVista and Photo Travel premium cars, but at the whole thing you get when racing.

I mean, there's a point to Photo Travel and AutoVista respectively, but still.

*Luminis, now I see what you says and I agree.