For those that object to GTS or GT7 having Std Cars, what is your reason?

[syntex123]

@kapnk006 Had a great idea a while ago for a poll. I think it is a worthy idea to bring a thread to life. Here it goes:

Would detractors accept std. cars if there was a "one click" option so you could completely hide them and their availability in your personal game? Or is their objection more complicated than that?

My opinion - make semi premiums out of them. I like the standards just because they're old / ordinary cars. Cars with a certain charm. I like the fact that almost everyone can buy their IRL car in GT and race it. If they only had better graphics, it would be awesome to have track days with your IRL car on the track. But that's me. Please, discuss.

 

[Tornado]

STD cars

 

[syntex123]

Yeah yeah I just copy-pasted kapnk's original post, to keep the work and idea his, and not mine

 

[NivekRJ]

The biggest complaint, with standard cars, is that the overall quality of the game takes a hit. I guess that's true, if you allow them to.

In my opinion, as long as you are racing premium cars on good tracks, the quality of the game, from your perspective, should still be good.

I mean, sure, I'd prefer all the cars be premium, but I think there are much bigger problems to deal with, than standard cars.

 

[Samus]

Isn't this horse firmly beaten by now? The people who support them aren't suddenly going to change their minds and vice versa.

 

[Imari]

I'll post what I've posted previously on this topic:

The problem isn't just the standard cars (and tracks) existing, even though that's a large part of it. There's also the effect that they have on the design of the game and other choices that are made.

For example, if you want the game to be playable without standard cars, then the selection of premium cars needs to be such that there's at least enough to be able to populate each single player race with only premiums. That then influences the single player design, and the selection of which cars need to be made premium.

If you're going to have a mode that offers only high quality assets, it's not as simple as taking something like GT6 and locking out all the standard stuff. The game would be a mess. It needs to be designed to be accessable with only high quality assets from the beginning, and then standard cars thrown in as an extra.

Which is why people like me are advocates of including standards as free DLC, or any other method of partitioning them off. Because it means that they're then available to anyone who wants them (and there's a reasonable amount of people who are vocal that they do), but it also means that Polyphony has to make sure that the game is actually playable (and fun) without them.

Make it opt in, not opt out, and you'll get my vote. Opt out means that the game is still fundamentally designed around standard cars. Opt in means that it isn't.

 

[Xiamoto]

Hey Syntex, Great! Thanks for taking the time to post this Poll! I have no problem with Std's being included if they are properly embedded within the game and do not detract from the fresh, new experience that we want GT7 to be. That's called good User Experience Design and I hope PD understands the value of hiring resources to do it right! Thanks again, cheers!

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

I don't want them because I'm tired of the constant whining about them. Sucks because some of my favorite cars in GT6 are standard.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Following @Imari's lead:

I voted for all but one of the options in the poll (more cars, pffft). Though really, the reasons are fluid; maybe GT7 comes with less tracks than GT6, but if they're all up to the quality of say, the 'Ring, with full dynamic time and weather, and visuals that aren't from the PS2 days, then I'd be fine with the number being slightly lower. I wouldn't count that against the game, at any rate.

Like a few others, I want quality, not quantity: GT7 needs to be a purely PS4-flexing, current-gen showcase. No decade-old recycled assets, no bloat. PD needs to put their best foot forward, especially after the PS3 era has proven to be less than favourable to them versus the last two. I want to see them wow us again, with more than just big numbers.

I get that. I love the 400R too. For me, driving it in either PS3 game is "close enough". The improvements it may or may not get in the physics department in GT Sport don't outweigh the serious lack of updates it's had in the graphics department, nor the limitations imposed on it due to being a Standard.

I missed the SVX and Cosmo from GT1/GT2 on the PS2 games. But I'm glad PD didn't include those 300-polygon models in GT4 simply to bump the car count.

Of course, there's hope for the 400R, as it's an R33-based car, and there's already a Premium model of it. We can hope!

There is nothing wrong with wanting consistency, and it shouldn't be treated as an unreasonable demand when literally every other racing game this generation can manage it. I too want consistency over anything else: I'd love to see a GT7 that was nothing but the best, in the same way GT3 stood head and shoulders above its console competition in its day. A game that shows all its newest, shiniest assets for the press shots, while hiding the vast majority that are recycled from last generation, is hardly prestigious.

Would I miss some of the Standards? Increasingly, no. There are a few models I'd miss that don't have a suitable Premium companion, but the feature list on Standards is so short compared to Premiums, that all I'd really be missing out on is being able to hot lap them in stock form, from bumper cam. The crap damage model doesn't do the Standards any favours, modifications are limited compared to Premiums, and there's no interiors. If this is a game about the love of the car, I'd rather wait for a version of the old '71 GT-R I can really pour over, and make my own.

Then do it in steps. This isn't an all or nothing situation, where there are only two options: all Premium, or the current mostly-Standards approach. PD can cull the Standards and work on giving some of them the Premium treatment. If some fall by the side, oh well. The Honda Element will surely be missed by... what, 12 people?

But in all honesty, I don't want PD to be easy joke for critics everywhere. That's why I want Standards dropped, especially so if they're showing up on PS4. Lead with your best foot forward - not a heavily pixelated, can't-use-all-the-current-features foot.

There are those hoping that the RUF's in GT6 are examples of how all Standards will be on PS4. While we don't know what the situation is yet, the time between GT5 and GT6 was three years, and we saw less than 100 of the "Semi-Premiums" show up. Given the size of the remaining Standard roster, it's unlikely they've all been upgraded ("upgraded" would still put them behind the competition) in the two years since GT6's release, especially if PD is also modelling new cars. Unless they've turned to a massive outsourcing program...

The poll being single option makes it impossible for me to vote.

 

[glassjaw]

STD cars

Much like an STD, they refuse to go away

 

[Johnnypenso]

Much like an STD, they refuse to go away

Luckily some STD's do go away when treated with the right drugs

I'll follow @SlipZtrEm and @Imari's lead:

Little sample of GTP stats:

Nearly 2/3 of those voting don't wants standards in the base game.
2/3 surveyed don't want standards in GT7
3/4 surveyed won't be happy with standards in GT7

GT6 Trophy stats indicate that 80% of players don't drive 92% of the cars and 70% of players don't drive 96% of the cars. Building a large garage, driving all the old standards. statisically appeals to a very tiny portion of the fanbase. I'm guessing that the proportion that wants all next-gen assets on a next-gen console is significantly higher. Nothing is stopping them from remodelling the icnonic standards and I agree that should be done. Scrap the rest and look forward, not back. If you build a good game no one will notice but a handful of people.

Having hundreds of standards and semi-premiums means GT will be the only next generation game to have cars without interiors and will overall have the lowest [average] quality stable of cars of any game. It'll go from best to worst in one single game. Their claim to fame will be that they have the biggest stable of cars. With GT6 you've seen the will of PD to upgrade a small portion of the standards, nothing more.

 

[dimassa19]

They are past-gen... That is my reason...

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Wait theirs a chance that GTS will have standard cars Yikes

 

[sparkytooth]

I don't go either way, they're neat to have in the game because I feel some of my favorites won't come back as easily as entirely new machines or premiumized standards that were popular back on the PS3. On the other hand I can see why people don't want them, being game assets first created for the PS2 and of questionable quality on the PS3, and now even moreso on the PS4.

 

[Imari]

Wait theirs a chance that GTS will have standard cars Yikes

A pretty good chance, based on what Kaz has said about them in the past.

 

[HuskyGT]

All of the options. Just to make it clear, the cars themselves do not offend me. It offends me that PD put them there in the form of a 10 year old asset when other games have most of the iconic GT's standards in full-blown new-gen form. Physics? Some of these games have already beaten GT in this aspect too.

I don't want these cars to disappear. I want these cars to be complete and to be presented in current-gen form. Take a good 200 of the best models and take them complete or don't make the game at all.

Supporting the existence of standards is supporting the developers lack of commitment to the game.

 

[ToyGTone]

I don't see that they will bring back the standard cars in GT Sport but i will answer that anyway's.

It's obvious that they're having plenty of outdated models in GT6. I mean we're in the 8th Gen of Consoles and imagine using cars with model quality that goes back to the PS2 and PSP Era of Games? In a current gen Game? It's just so wrong...

I find it odd especially since when they made GT3, they didn't just throw GT2 Cars into the game. They had to remodel the cars again. They were even some cars in GT3 that got removed or remodelled for GT4 when they could simply throw it in GT4 without any problems at all.

But what they did in GT5 and GT6? they just threw in almost every car from Gran Turismo PSP. For What? Just so the say: LOOK GUYS, WE HAVE OVER 1200 "DIFFERENT" CARS IN THE GAME!! I'll rather to buy a game with over 300-400 quality cars than over 1200 of different Prius, MX5...etc with outdated quality.

But the problem with throwing all the standard out is that they have to at least remodel some Standards to Premium. Yes there are tons of useless duplication with just slight different name or slight different trim model but there are some cars that shouldn't been thrown out but instead remodelled to Premium for GT Sport or any future GT games. I don't want to see some classic rally cars getting thrown out... i don't want to see some Classic Le Man cars to get removed from the game. I don't wanna see some iconic cars get removed from the game.

I don't wanna see Standards in the game but i don't want to see some of the cars i like getting thrown out like nothing.

 

[Imari]

I mean we're in the 8th Gen of Consoles and imagine using cars with model quality that goes back to the PS2 and PSP Era of Games? In a current gen Game? It's just so wrong...

That was many people's initial response to the announcement that standards in GT5 would be essentially untouched PS2 assets. It didn't stop Polyphony then, so while I absolutely agree with you unfortunately I don't think it'll hold much sway with the developers.

But the problem with throwing all the standard out is that they have to at least remodel some Standards to Premium. Yes there are tons of useless duplication with just slight different name or slight different trim model but there are some cars that shouldn't been thrown out but instead remodelled to Premium for GT Sport or any future GT games. I don't want to see some classic rally cars getting thrown out... i don't want to see some Classic Le Man cars to get removed from the game. I don't wanna see some iconic cars get removed from the game.

I don't wanna see Standards in the game but i don't want to see some of the cars i like getting thrown out like nothing.

I agree. I'm somewhat curious as to how many models it would really take to get the best of the standard cars up to premium level. If Polyphony were to just throw money at it and contract someone, how few cars could they get away with buying to cover most of the most iconic and important models. 100? 200? I imagine if each car cost $15-20,000, then you'd want as few as possible and only the best.

I'm tempted to sit down with a standard car list at some point and see how far it gets just by stripping out all the drek, but I'm far too lazy. But I'd be surprised if you couldn't lose at least half of them without most people even blinking an eye.

 

[MarchingSaint]

Answering to what @SlipZtrEm wrote:
Of course the casuals won't play 96% of the cars. There are more than enough reasons why people are not motivated , but let's proceed by order:
Is GranTurismo a game revolving around standard cars?
NO. But it is true that Gran Turismo is a game that based its single player on old racing games tropes, it's how everything is so predictable about every single event; 1200+ cars just to see the same 30 cars in every race (seriously there's little to no variety in the single player grids, some of them are just cringey with rally cars competing against touring cars and so on). Now why did i mention the single player events? Because if any producer asked a stupid question such as "hey guys why don't we make a sub 500pp racing car championship?" they'd have realized long ago that they haven't enough assets to make such thing. GT6 is filled with cars, many manufacturers and many categories: why? There's simply no purpose in having an Australian V8 Supercar when you can't race it against anyone. One of the main problems with GT's standards is that there are too much, a solution might be the contextualization of GT's events: no more "clubman" or "tuners" challengers but instead categories based on PP, displacement, doors, weight, year etc etc and more variety.
i.e: take a classic 90's japanese road cars championship format, now add a first championship accessible at the start for starters (so around 400 pp limit), then do it for intermediates (450 pp now) and advanced (500 pp) divide it in even more variations ( asian tracks only, european tracks only, american tracks only, world championship) and if you do a simple calculation you'll find yourself using way more than just 3 cars for these races ( a small keicar for the first, then a mx5 and then a rx-7 for example) add the previous regional differentiation and here you find yourself already 10 hours into the game with only a category ( 90's japanese cars) done ( apply this to: Japanese 70's cars, american muscle, european coupè, modern sportscar...etc etc).

TL;DR
If they were forced to create more events, they'd have been forced to "upgrade" more cars and tracks with only the exception of few vehicles left behind. Even now GT doesn't have a proper LMP1 championship because there are few, if any, car that could compete fairly with another. Hope i made my point as clear as possible.

 

[eran0004]

TL;DR
If they were forced to create more events, they'd have been forced to "upgrade" more cars and tracks with only the exception of few vehicles left behind. Even now GT doesn't have a proper LMP1 championship because there are few, if any, car that could compete fairly with another. Hope i made my point as clear as possible.

The "premiumization" process already started with GT6: the events that required standard cars in GT5 are either gone, or there are now premium cars available for those events. I don't think there is any event in GT6 that can't be completed with a premium car.

It could also explain why shuffle racing didn't make it, since it relied on the standard car library.

 

[syntex123]

The poll being single option makes it impossible for me to vote.

Multiple options added to the poll.

It could also explain why shuffle racing didn't make it, since it relied on the standard car library.

I miss shuffle racing tbh.

 

[MarchingSaint]

The "premiumization" process already started with GT6: the events that required standard cars in GT5 are either gone

Yes but not on every standard, by the way i'm ok with keeping the standards at the sole and only point that the exterior of said standards matches the exteriors of the other premiums. It's not really much if you think about it. By the way i think that GTSport will have less cars, and if the majority will be premiums or there will be only premiums won't surprise me much.

 

[AudiMan2011]

All the standards need to go. They are relics of the past that have only been kept for nostalgia's sake and having them in GTS/7 will only lower the quality of the rest of the game.

Only the best ones like the Supra RZ and the RUFs should come back only when they are fully premium, interior and all.

Super low-res cars like the Alto Works need to disappear forever because they are downright offensive.

 

[GrumpyGrumps]

I feel that having standard cars in the game is an embarrassment for PD.

None of the competition uses them, and I'm sorry, but having standard cars in the game for nostalgia's sake or because it allows PD to include a lot of 'normal' cars has the same effect as saying, 'we at PD don't care enough about these cars to do them properly, but 1200 is an impressive number so we are going to leave them in anyway.'

Don't do two things at 50% PD, do one thing at 100%.

 

[OpticZero]

There might be some confusion here...No one actually likes the standard cars, people just like the cars that happen to be standard. If all standard cars were turned premium, then no one would complain. Getting rid of the standard cars does not mean all standard cars will disappear, it just means they will look better and have fully modeled interiors...you know, how they should have been back in GT5 & GT6.

 

[syntex123]

^

I don't know if I speak for myself or the rest of you guys, but yeah, if all / most of the standards get premiumized and with fully modeled interiors I'd be happy. All of the racing games nowadays forget about the cars of the past. I really do want to race with a 90's sedan rather than all the new ones. Don't get me wrong, I like the new cars a lot too. But let's not forget real life favorites that you can actually buy / already own. In my case, the Nissan Primera (not the ugly P12 one) and Infiniti G20. Those cars, be it the P10 or P11 we had in GT1/2, those cars are gems. There are a lot of old cars enthusiasts like me would like to drive rather than all the fancy schmancy new Lamborghinis and Ferraris and I don't know what. Regular cars you can buy and own IRL, be it old ones, new ones, I want them premiumized.

Off topic for a second: I cheered when I saw a guy modeling the 1999 BTCC champ car Nissan Primera GT for Assetto Corsa. Finally someone who gets it.

 

[Sploshington]

I chose " PD needs to focus their resources on other areas of GT7 that have been lacking in prior releases ". Problem is, for me, that my favourite car ever in GT actually IS a standard car . I know they'd drop it, rather than upgrade it to a proper model !

 

[syntex123]

@Sploshington Same with mine. Even though in the info text of the car they praise the hell out of that car.

 

[NivekRJ]

I don't like having the lower quality cars. The issue, for me, is that some of my favorite cars just happen to be standard or semi-premium.

The fear most people may have is this. If their favorite car isn't upgraded to premium, there's a chance it won't be in future GT titles or any other car games, for that matter.

At the end of the day, it's still a matter of choice. If you don't want to drive a standard car, nobody is forcing you. Yes, they do bring the overall quality down, but if you ignore them, you should still have a good experience. New cars are the priority, but if PD can upgrade the older ones, too, then they should. Duplicates absolutely have to go, though.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Because they are ugly as hell on track and have no place being in a game in 2016!