Ford Mustang Thread: 2011 General Talk

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I don't mind the LRA.

The Ford 8.8" is insanely strong and I believe everyone is underestimating the cost difference...

An 8.8 costs Ford about 25 cents to make. IRS would cost at least a few hundred dollars per car more, which would drive showroom prices up by a few grand most likely, add in the development time and money and it makes extremely little sense until they do a chassis change.
 
I think they'll keep the LRA unchanged until its time for a completely new chassis. THe improvements made on the last generation SVT Cobra were only marginal, and the IRS had some downfalls that it simply shouldn't, like the wheel hop. That shouldn't be a problem, but the IRS was adapted to a chassis never meant to use it, and I think that's the reason the improvement wasn't hardly worth the cost. They may have realized that with this chassis. If they developed a chassis specifically for rear IRS I think the results would be much better than adapting a system to a chassis meant for a live axle.
 
Keef
I think they'll keep the LRA unchanged until its time for a completely new chassis. THe improvements made on the last generation SVT Cobra were only marginal, and the IRS had some downfalls that it simply shouldn't, like the wheel hop. That shouldn't be a problem, but the IRS was adapted to a chassis never meant to use it, and I think that's the reason the improvement wasn't hardly worth the cost. They may have realized that with this chassis. If they developed a chassis specifically for rear IRS I think the results would be much better than adapting a system to a chassis meant for a live axle.
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Why in the name of all that's holy, wouldn't they have just designed the damn thing for IRS in the first place? This is the kind of thinking I'm talking about. It just doesn't make sense. One step forward.... 3 steps back....




;)
 
Delphic Reason
Why in the name of all that's holy, wouldn't they have just designed the damn thing for IRS in the first place? This is the kind of thinking I'm talking about. It just doesn't make sense. One step forward.... 3 steps back....




;)
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Let's see...

The LS the S197 is based off of had IRS. Ford went to a solid axle because in the long run it's cheaper to produce and the LS's IRS most likely wasn't up to snuff in terms of power holding.
 
Rotary Junkie
Let's see...

The LS the S197 is based off of had IRS. Ford went to a solid axle because in the long run it's cheaper to produce and the LS's IRS most likely wasn't up to snuff in terms of power holding.
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Exactly.

One step forward 3 steps back.

One of these days they are going to have to join us in the 21st century.



;)
 
The Mustang is an aerodynamic brick mostly anyhow. Lift is the word of the day, with a side helping of drag. IRS or solid axle, it's never going to hang with say, the 370Z around corners anyway, so why compromise what it's best at? Launching hard and going fast straight.
 
Rotary Junkie
IRS or solid axle, it's never going to hang with say, the 370Z around corners anyway, so why compromise what it's best at? Launching hard and going fast straight.
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Well, lets not write the performance off completely either. The previous GT held up surprisingly well for being as cheap and as "basic" as it was. The car was still pretty quick, drove consistently, and did its job to be a completely different kind of performance machine. I haven't read any of the reviews on the performance of the new GT, but I imagine that it is a decent progression forward for an already "pretty good" performance car.

As for the GT500, Ford says they've done a lot of their homework with the car. As someone pointed out earlier, if their fiddles work and they changed the tires (PS2s?), hopefully the car will perform as well as it should for having 540 BHP.
 
Keef
Hopefully they will make it lighter.
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Ford is still using the F-150 cast iron block in this car so i wouldn't bank on it.

Its about time they made a purpose built Aluminum Block for this car, i dont know what they're waiting on
 
Rotary Junkie
The Mustang is an aerodynamic brick mostly anyhow. Lift is the word of the day, with a side helping of drag. IRS or solid axle, it's never going to hang with say, the 370Z around corners anyway, so why compromise what it's best at? Launching hard and going fast straight.
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That's the problem. That's just not good enough nowadays. The competition is making cars that do go around corners well, and go fast in a straight line. They just aren't providing a truly marketable product to a large enough demographic.

I don't think looks alone are going to carry the Mustang brand much farther. Eventually someone is going to stand up and say "That's enough", in my opinion, of course.


;)
 
nissan tuner
Ford is still using the F-150 cast iron block in this car so i wouldn't bank on it.

Its about time they made a purpose built Aluminum Block for this car, i dont know what they're waiting on
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Sometimes fragility, lightness, and sophistication trumps strength, weight, and simplicity. This is one of those times. GM's LSx engines have been aluminum for a while now. The Camaro is not going to be simply a tool for drag racing. This beast of a Mustang might handle good and go fast for its weight and size, but it doesn't do it great. It should. GM is risking its life on a modern Camaro among other things, and I think it's going to pay off. Otherwise The Mustang will be playing catch-up.

When is the next all-new Mustang frame coming along? They made a mistake with this LRA, and it's time to try it again with an IRS.
 
Keef
When is the next all-new Mustang frame coming along? They made a mistake with this LRA, and it's time to try it again with an IRS.
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I'd bank on at least a four or five year run for this model, so 2012 or 2013 seems like a good rough estimate. I've heard that Ford still wants to consolidate a bunch of RWD programs together (like GM), and I'm willing to bet that this time, the Falcon development will happen alongside the Mustang. Either way, like you pointed out, it seems very likely that the Camaro will become the benchmark for the three of them (Mustang, Challenger, Camaro) based on the outrageous sums of money poured in and the time invested in development.

Where Ford will have the upper hand, I believe, is the optional powertrains. Maybe not with the 5.4L S/C V8 (versus that of an LFA or LS7, if they happen), but with the low-end models. If Ford decides to replace the 4.0L V6 with a 2.4L Ecoboost I4, it stands an excellent chance of bringing in some serious performance potential, not to mention presumably good fuel economy standards. Lets be honest, that engine alone would out-class GM's 2.0L Turbocharged option, and I doubt they'd switch out to the new 3.0L V6 just yet.
 
Drop the 3.5L from the Ford Edge and that would be a great mid-range option. Add an optional turbo or supercharger to put it over 300bhp and it could definatly be a beast.
 
Delphic Reason
I don't think looks alone are going to carry the Mustang brand much farther. Eventually someone is going to stand up and say "That's enough", in my opinion, of course.
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I agree with the problems about the live rear axle and the ancient engine, but until sales take a steep decline that aren't due to global economic factors, the Mustang will keep on trucking with what it's got. It's cheap, it makes money, it takes no effort to engineer a new version, and it sells based on its reputation. Until the current baby boomers and their kids finish getting their kicks with this version (I'm guessing through 2012 anyway), the Mustang will be a 1970's relic that simply doesn't know how old it is.

Honestly, this "economic downturn" may be the best thing for American car companies. They may finally learn something and scramble to reinvent themselves. I sure as hell hope so; I've been wanting a Mustang with decent independant rear suspension for almost 20 years now.
 
The modular motor is not old at all, versatile, and has proven its potential to be great. The rest of the car may be rubbish post-04, but we are enthusiasts and our opinion often conflicts with car company's business model. Just compare the V6 to V8 sales of Mustangs and you'll see where Ford's head is.
 
harrytuttle
I agree with the problems about the live rear axle and the ancient engine, but until sales take a steep decline that aren't due to global economic factors, the Mustang will keep on trucking with what it's got. It's cheap, it makes money, it takes no effort to engineer a new version, and it sells based on its reputation. Until the current baby boomers and their kids finish getting their kicks with this version (I'm guessing through 2012 anyway), the Mustang will be a 1970's relic that simply doesn't know how old it is.

Honestly, this "economic downturn" may be the best thing for American car companies. They may finally learn something and scramble to reinvent themselves. I sure as hell hope so; I've been wanting a Mustang with decent independent rear suspension for almost 20 years now.
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I would say that's a fair assessment. 2012 seems to be a likely time for a new platform, especially if the economy turns around enough to allow more breathing room for Ford.

I've been let down so many times, but for some odd reason I keep holding out hope for a well balanced Mustang, that isn't from an aftermarket tuning house.



;)
 
There is a better option out there:

medium_3131930185_a5ff1ee0a4_o.jpg


(BTW: That's the "base" LS, no other option boxes checked)
 
Ok, maybe it's just me, but in the latest Motor Trend, they have a photo of the new Mustang next to the current Mustang. Now, if I didn't know better, it almost looked like Ford tried to go retro-Camaro on the body shape of the new Stang. They both now have a large hood appearance, and a similar design flow going towards the rear.

Arguably, I'd still take the new SS over any new Mustang. I am love with the beast from the GM, and I don't think Ford could change my mind unless we start talking SuperSnakes.
 
5.0L Boss motor + new Mustang = epic win That being said, I'd probably rather have an EcoBoost SVO revival just because.
 
The 4.0L V6 is essentially a truck engine. I am growing tired of seeing truck engines in cars. An all alluminum engine V8 in the Mustang Cobra/GT500 should significantly help the nose drive during heavy breaking and the 3.5L V6 should significantly help on the midrange and high end powerband. The 4.0L has plenty downlow but has next to nothing up high.
 
Um . . . through out the Mustangs life, its most popular and sought after engines have started out as "Truck" engines.
 
PARAGON GT
Um . . . through out the Mustangs life, its most popular and sought after engines have started out as "Truck" engines.
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but...times are changing, the mustang needs to catch up with the competition fast, 30 years ago truck engines in sports cars might have been fine but these days doesn't really cut it. Sure bang for buck they're good but they hold many performance aspects back, the nose heavy isn't a particularly great feature.
 
Actually, Ford did release a Mustang back in '84 with that in mind.

It was the Mustanf SVO:
preproduction_svo.jpg

Mustang SVO

The car was equiped with a 2.3L four cylinder turbocharged/intercooled fuel injected engine, and performed as well, if not better than the GT's of the time.

The car was developed with performance in mind. Not just straight line acceleration, but handling as well.

Unfortunately there were under 10,000 produced, and they were tyically priced $5,000 higher than an equally equiped GT.
 
*Point of Reference

Even living in domestic-friendly Michigan, I can count the number of SVO's I've seen on one hand. They are incredibly rare cars, and any time one is spotted, its definitely a treat. I can honestly only think of one that I can see easily, in the old "neighborhood" that I grew up in.

The SVO could happen again if Ford does follow through with the EcoBoost rumors on a base-level model. But, its hard to say at this point. See how Mustang sales look before making any calls, I assume.
 
Ah, a fellow Michigander.

Yes, the SVO's are pretty rare cars. I believe in their 3 years of production they made under 10,000 of them. (9,844 according to the link I referenced above). My old neighbor had one that he started restoring before I moved away.

I was just stating that Ford has in the past worked with powerful/economical engines. Just at the time, the market didn't go for them.

You are right though. Ford is going to have to step it up some how now that there is competition in the pony car class again.

And- I don't see a problem if they start out with the 4.0 block.
 
PARAGON GT
*SVO stuff*

Unfortunately there were under 10,000 produced, and they were tyically priced $5,000 higher than an equally equiped GT.
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That was the problem. They got the same gas mileage while offering the same or less performance at stock than the 5.0 Mustangs. If they were the same price, I garuntee you would have seen many, many more sold
 
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Autoblog
When Ford introduced the 2010 Mustang at the LA Auto Show in November, there was some disappointment expressed over the engine lineup. The V6 was unchanged and the 4.6L was only mildly tweaked. Ford officials strongly hinted that this was just the beginning and that the Mustang would follow the pattern of the 2008-9 Escape. In 2008 the Escape got new bodywork and the following year the engines got a complete revamp.

Similarly, the Mustangs are expected to get heart transplants next year. It's still unclear what base engine will replace the old 4.0L V6 although a 2.0L EcoBoost four has been rumored. The 3.5L EcoBoost V6 is also expected to be an important part of the lineup. But the most die-hard Mustang fans only seem to care about V8s. A new 32-valve 5.0L is expected to replace the 4.6L and 5.4L V8s in the Mustang and the F-150. Unlike the 5.4L in the trucks, the new "Coyote" V8 uses a significantly lighter aluminum block, and based on the spy pics that have just turned up, it will also use an aluminum intake manifold in place of the plastic unit used on the current V8s. The Coyote should give the Mustang GT 400 hp to play with, putting it on par with the Camaro SS but at a lighter weight. Bring it on!
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Well, thats a shot across Chevrolet's bow. Throw a halfway decent suspension under the car and I'm positive that it would take the top spot back as America's best pony car. Of course, that assumes that the powerband is halfway decent on the 5.0L.
 

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