Ford Mustang Thread: 2011 General Talk

[Philly]

It'll still have a LRA, so a halfway decent suspension isn't going to help too much.

 

[PARAGON GT]

I'm sure that if they tweak it enough that they could do something with the LRA suspension. Heck, C.S. did once before.

But will that tweaking be cost effective?
Or will it cost as much as a IRS set up?

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Actually, the current GT500 shows that the 3-link setup they're running right now works very well... The aluminum block or EcoBoost V6 may well see the Mustang keeping right with the Camaro through corners and outpacing it down straights.

 

[Jim Prower]

Lighter is always better. It's still not enough to lure me away from that Z, but, damnit, Ford, you really are getting tempting...

 

[Leonidae]

You must not give into curse of blue oval! remember LRA.. it's evil! good only for straight line!

 

[Jim Prower]

Be more worried about Curse of Devil Z getting my goat at this point.

Although...AE86 had LRA. It did fine in corners. Most popular 1600-size Group A Touring Car for a long time.

 

[Leonidae]

it was also a lot lighter than any Mustang ever will be.

 

[YSSMAN]

The Mustang being less than 3500 lbs is still moderately impressive given that the Camaro will clock in just below 4000 lbs, and all the Challenger models are well above that.

 

[Tornado]

Actually, the current GT500 shows that the 3-link setup they're running right now works very well...

...At driving like a front heavy pig that isn't particularly fast? I'm not saying that the suspension won't work with the 5.0, but I don't think the GT500 is a good example. They really would be two different cars. Depending on the power the 5.0 puts out (can we call it a Cammer?), it may even be faster than the GT500. Especially if the 5.0 is supposed to be lighter than the 4.6.

The aluminum block or EcoBoost V6 may well see the Mustang keeping right with the Camaro through corners and outpacing it down straights.

Depends on the torque curve more than anything else, I'd say. If the late 90s taught us anything, at least (ie. Z28s had less power than the '99 SVT Cobra, and weighed a couple hundred pounds more IIRC, but were faster anyways). If Ford can get the torque curve right on this engine, Chevrolet will have to worry.


Anyways, will this mean that the F-150 will finally have something related to what all of the other full size trucks have power-wise? Because I for one can't stop laughing at the Ford commercials that tout the truck's fuel economy "without even losing any power."

 

[YSSMAN]

If Ford can get the torque curve right on this engine, Chevrolet will have to worry.

Exactly. The LS3 (and L99) makes power up down and sideways, anywhere in the powerband. If you have to wind that 5.0L, yeah its going to be "fun," but it won't win any races against the Chevy where it matters, particularly when you're coming out of the corners or doing some light-to-light races.

But, if they can get the 5.0L right, I think the only thing Ford needs to promise us now is a halfway decent slushbox, and finally get around to offering a six-speed manual gearbox on the GT.

 

[Philly]

Depends on the torque curve more than anything else, I'd say. If the late 90s taught us anything, at least (ie. Z28s had less power than the '99 SVT Cobra, and weighed a couple hundred pounds more IIRC, but were faster anyways). If Ford can get the torque curve right on this engine, Chevrolet will have to worry.

Turbo engines can have some quite impressive torque curve. Just look at the VW 2.0T that can produce nearly all of it's torque at 1800 RPMs. I'm not totally sure this is do-able in all cars, but it probably could be done if Ford tried.

 

[Tornado]

I'm talking about the Cammer, not the EcoBoost.

 

[paskowitz]

I do not get why Ford didn't make a production version of this (Mustang GTR) and call it the Boss or GTR or Mustang: The Version That Looks Cool and Handles Well. That car still hangs on my wall as a poster. It would be sick to have a light weight, 2 seat, 400-550hp, performance based Mustang. Something that could actually give the Vette a run for its relative money.

 

[YSSMAN]

They did:

Its called the Ford Mustang FR500GT, sold to privateer racers for $225K. I think Ford Racing is still building them, however, it may have been replaced by the FR500CJ (Cobra Jet). No, its not exactly "street legal," but its as close as you'll get to the GTR directly from Ford itself.

 

[McLaren]

I do not get why Ford didn't make a production version of this (Mustang GTR) and call it the Boss or GTR or Mustang: The Version That Looks Cool and Handles Well. That car still hangs on my wall as a poster. It would be sick to have a light weight, 2 seat, 400-550hp, performance based Mustang. Something that could actually give the Vette a run for its relative money.

There was a demand for it, but it never made it.

They did:

Its called the Ford Mustang FR500GT, sold to privateer racers for $225K. I think Ford Racing is still building them, however, it may have been replaced by the FR500CJ (Cobra Jet). No, its not exactly "street legal," but its as close as you'll get to the GTR directly from Ford itself.

It didn't replace it. The Cobra Jet is just another trim available to the FR500.

Besides that, the FR500GT is not the same as the GTR Concept. The GTR Concept never made it off the ground. The FR500GT is just a 500Bhp built-to-spec Mustang. It's not very far off the FR500C/GT4 & FR500GT3.

 

[Paulie]

I feel pretty confident this engine will make it to the Ford Falcon range, and with an Alloy block the Ford V8s will be able to do something they haven't done in quite a while, challenge the Holdens and not be out done and out classed by its Turbo brother.

/\ Note there was no opinion expressed in this post, just a theory.

Edit: Was it not the New Zealand Ford boss who first announced the development of a new 5.0L for Mustangs and Falcons by mistake?

 

[seckcimike]

They did:

Its called the Ford Mustang FR500GT, sold to privateer racers for $225K. I think Ford Racing is still building them, however, it may have been replaced by the FR500CJ (Cobra Jet). No, its not exactly "street legal," but its as close as you'll get to the GTR directly from Ford itself.

225 grand? im sure if you buy a stock one, and build it to those exact specs, it wouldnt cost that much lol...........I think spending 225k on a mustang is a bad investment alone, idc if its racing or not.

 

[Leonidae]

Mustang in general is bad investment. Give it IRS and proper 4 valves per cylinder DOHC with variable timing, then we'll talk.

 

[Tornado]

and proper 4 valves per cylinder DOHC with variable timing, then we'll talk.

Because that would completely change every car on the market, amiright? I mean, look at Toyota! The Tundra has the most power, the best torque curve and best gas mileage in its class...oh, wait...

 

[Nicksfix]

They did:

Its called the Ford Mustang FR500GT, sold to privateer racers for $225K. I think Ford Racing is still building them, however, it may have been replaced by the FR500CJ (Cobra Jet). No, its not exactly "street legal," but its as close as you'll get to the GTR directly from Ford itself.

Have a feeling that we might see a similar rendition of this car in the up and coming SCCA Trans Am series in '09

 

[Azuremen]

Mustang in general is bad investment. Give it IRS and proper 4 valves per cylinder DOHC with variable timing, then we'll talk.

Umm.... they've had a version for a while with SVT Mustang Cobras. 32 Valve 4.7L V8 with an IRS and 6 speed manual.

 

[Quattro20v]

I think Leonidae was talking about current/future models.

 

[Tornado]

It shouldn't matter. When it comes to IRS, yes, I can see his argument.
However, the SVT Mustang of the 90s was never a faster car than the Camaro that was sold across the street. Despite having, at the time, one of the most advanced V8 engines on the market, a 200 pound weight advantage and a 15-20 horsepower bonus.
Even when SVT started putting IRS into the car in 1999, when it came to handling the Camaro was about even with the Mustang (Mustang had more control, Camaro had better numbers).

Leonidae's statement is nothing more than the same elitism he has everytime some American car doesn't come out with whatever technology he feels the car should have to be relevant, and everytime he brings it up he never has any reasoning as to why whatever currently-debuting American car he is criticizing is somehow inferior.

 

[YSSMAN]

Mustang in general is bad investment. Give it IRS and proper 4 valves per cylinder DOHC with variable timing, then we'll talk.

You do know that it has a 3-valve setup with variable cam timing, right? What you're suggesting engine wise would defeat the entire purpose of the Mustang; Cheap, fast, good-looking cars designed, built and driven by Americans. Sure, an IRS would be nice, but I don't think that when you go digging through many reviews that you find that handling has ended up being that poor, or ride quality suffering that much.

In fact, for the price, the Mustang (as I've said a million times before) is tough to beat. No matter what you throw at it. I'd rather have a Camaro when it all comes down to it, but nevertheless, I'm not about to trash-talk the Mustang for what it is... A very good car for the money.

 

[super cirrus]

Depends on the torque curve more than anything else, I'd say. If the late 90s taught us anything, at least (ie. Z28s had less power than the '99 SVT Cobra, and weighed a couple hundred pounds more IIRC, but were faster anyways). [/SIZE][/FONT]

The '99 Cobra was RATED (320 vs 305) more than the '99 z28, but its a well known fact that Ford overrated the cobra engine that year, and Chevy underrated the camaro engine. Despite their ratings, it was actually about a 50 whp advantage in favor of the camaro. Curb weight was nealry identicle too.

 

[Tornado]

So what you are saying is that the big outdated Camaro engine with its measly OHV design beat the state of the art Cobra at power too (I was aware of the overrating of that engine, but I didn't think it was relevant considering both of our points essentially prove the same thing)?!

 

[Jay]

Falcon XR8 has DOHC V8 and IRS, wonder why it is different for the Mustang? Probably because we dont get cars so cheap.

 

[Tornado]

Didn't you also get one with the big 5.4 mauler from the SVT Cobra R at one point?

Besides, SVT more than made up with the original Cobra failings with the 390 (ROFL) 2003 model.

 

[Jay]

Didn't you also get one with the big 5.4 mauler from the SVT Cobra R at one point?

We stll do, or atleast a similar spec, they all are 5.4 and the GT has 315kw's (422hp)

 

[Tornado]

Every day that Ford doesn't put that in the Crown Victoria is a crime perpetrated against the American people.

Its always annoyed me that Ford can get such lovely power numbers out of the 5.4 (with the torque numbers to match!), yet anything they put it in in America produces something ridiculous like 300 horsepower.